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OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’

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  OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com> - 2018-01-01 20:22 -0800
    Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-01-01 21:04 -0800
      Re: Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-01-02 05:08 +0000
        Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-01-01 22:14 -0800
          Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-01-01 22:58 -0800
            Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-01-02 07:20 -0500
            Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-02 12:24 -0700
              Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ Wolffan <aklwolffan@gmail.com> - 2018-01-02 22:47 -0500
        Re: OT ? astonishing 'Zoo Theory' D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-01-02 14:36 +0000
      Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-01-02 02:19 -0800
    Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-01-01 22:52 -0800
    Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-01-04 12:10 -0600
      Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-01-04 11:41 -0700
        Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ Leo Sgouros <adravirgo@gmail.com> - 2018-01-04 10:50 -0800
        Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ Wolffan <aklwolffan@gmail.com> - 2018-01-04 16:27 -0500
          Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’ Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-01-04 14:16 -0800

#483916 — OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’

Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains 
astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’

A fundamental motivation for the zoo hypothesis would be that premature 
contact would “unintelligently” reduce the overall diversity of paths 
the universe itself could take. If there is a plurality of alien 
cultures, however, this theory may break down under the uniformity of 
motive concept.

By Megha Singh - January 1, 2018

Alien life and UFO were hot topics among the alien seekers and 
conspiracy theorists in the year 2017. Some believe that we are not 
alone and some form of intelligent life exists in some other part of the 
world which also gave upward thrust to many conspiracies this year.

Recently, SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket launch was mistaken as UFO while some 
still claimed to see mysterious alien spacecraft alongside the SpaceX 
rocket. The launch was so bizarre that drivers on the road got 
distracted and crashed their cars.

Some alien hunters including Scott C Waring from UFO Sightings Daily 
claim to find proof of extraterrestrial life on Mars and Moons. Some 
alien buffs also believe that UFO lingers around International Space 
Station and talk to astronauts. While some blame the US space agency 
NASA for hiding the existence of the alien life despite knowing the truth.

Apparently, our every attempt to find extraterrestrial life failed, and 
no one was able to prove the existence of aliens. Meanwhile, a radio 
astronomer from MIT who believes in the existence of alien life came up 
with a theory to prove why we have failed in establishing a contact with 
aliens even after several attempts.

It is to be noticed that recently, METI scientists beamed a signal into 
space to establish contact with aliens. The scientists have sent a set 
of radio signal with such instructions that they would definitely get 
some reply back on Earth within 25 years. However, the universe is vast, 
and the possibility of receiving the signals is minimal.

According to the “Zoo Theory”, given by John A. Ball, an MIT radio 
astronomer, aliens might be living in some distant galaxy, and they know 
about the existence of humans, but still, they are purposefully hiding 
from us and avoiding contact with humans. The theory further states that 
aliens aren’t still advance enough. Therefore they don’t interfere with 
our activity, similar to zookeepers at a zoo or nature preserve.

“I suggest, first, that mankind is neither alone nor number one. 
Advanced civilizations exist and exert some degree of control over the 
galaxy. Second, they’re aware of us at least at some level. But are they 
concerned with us? We may be only an obscure entry in their tabulation 
of inhabited regions of the galaxy. Third, we’re unaware of them because 
either they want us to be unaware| they’re hiding (But this means that 
they care about us, else why bother to hide?)|or because we’re not (yet) 
clever enough to know that they’re there, but they don’t care whether we 
know,”  Ball said.

Ball believes that aliens are curious to know about humans; which is why 
people report thousands of UFO sightings each year that further results 
in mysterious and unsolved conspiracies. “ETI (extraterrestrial 
intelligence) may be discreetly and inconspicuously watching us but not 
dabbling,” Ball wrote in his paper on the subject.

According to Freeman Dyson, “a reasonable long-range program of 
searching for evidence of intelligence in the galaxy is 
indistinguishable from a reasonable long-range program of general 
astronomical exploration.”

Previously, researchers at the University of California Berkley 
researching for the $100m ‘Breakthrough Listen” project, had 
successfully detected 15 strange and repetitive Radio signal bursts 
radiating out from a small galaxy using the Breakthrough Listen Project 
by accumulating 400 terabytes of observations of FRB 121102’s location. 
Scientists believe that aliens located in the distant galaxy might be 
sending these signals.

Moreover, an astronomer from the Search for Extra-Terrestrial 
Intelligence (SETI) claimed that we are heading towards our first 
contact with aliens. At the World’s Nano Fair, Seth Shostak, a senior 
astronomer at SETI told Futurism that they are going to find intelligent 
alien life within 20 years and for that, he bet everyone a cup of 
coffee. He is optimistic about the fact that we are incredibly close to 
answering the question of whether we are alone in the Universe or not. 
He also confidently said that within a couple of decades he can prove 
that aliens do exist.

https://tecake.in/aliens-watch-us-not-contacted-us-yet-explains-bizarre-zoo-theory

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#483922

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 11:22:59 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains 
> astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’
> 

Obviously, the Andromeda Hegemony can't interfere in
our development.  It would violate their Prime Directive!

That is unfalsifiable: "Any sufficiently advanced alien
species is hiding from us, successfully?"

Kevin R

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#483933

In article <717b31ea-38f8-40a4-a59a-d2666828a54d@googlegroups.com>,
Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 11:22:59 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
>> Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains 
>> astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’
>> 
>
>Obviously, the Andromeda Hegemony can't interfere in
>our development.  It would violate their Prime Directive!
>
>That is unfalsifiable: "Any sufficiently advanced alien
>species is hiding from us, successfully?"

Can you blame them?

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#483942

On 1/1/2018 9:08 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <717b31ea-38f8-40a4-a59a-d2666828a54d@googlegroups.com>,
> Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 11:22:59 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
>>> Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains
>>> astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’
>>>
>>
>> Obviously, the Andromeda Hegemony can't interfere in
>> our development.  It would violate their Prime Directive!
>>
>> That is unfalsifiable: "Any sufficiently advanced alien
>> species is hiding from us, successfully?"
> 
> Can you blame them?
> 
Yes.  :)

-- 
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
instinct are running screaming.

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#483944

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 11:15:00 PM UTC-7, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 1/1/2018 9:08 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <717b31ea-38f8-40a4-a59a-d2666828a54d@googlegroups.com>,
> > Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:

> >> That is unfalsifiable: "Any sufficiently advanced alien
> >> species is hiding from us, successfully?"

> > Can you blame them?

> Yes.  :)

Well, indeed. While our bad behavior would seem to give aliens a good reason to 
hide from us... if they're so much more advanced than us, they would:

- be compassionate;

- realize that humans are conscious beings;

- recognize that the bad behavior which is harmful to many humans is due to the 
choices of a few;

- and would possess the means to intervene without any risk, or any significant 
effort, on their part.

So, yes, I would blame them for, say, failing to prevent the Holocaust. And 
various other unpleasantnesses.

Not that the Prime Directive is a bad idea.

When you don't understand an alien species, intervention can easily be 
disastrous, however well-intentioned.

But a sufficiently advanced alien species ought to be able to understand us in a 
reasonable amount of time. Simply not interfering because they want to learn 
about uncontaminated primitive behavior is exploitive.

John Savard

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#483955 — Re: OT ? astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’

On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 22:58:36 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 11:15:00 PM UTC-7, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 1/1/2018 9:08 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> > In article <717b31ea-38f8-40a4-a59a-d2666828a54d@googlegroups.com>,
>> > Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>> >> That is unfalsifiable: "Any sufficiently advanced alien
>> >> species is hiding from us, successfully?"
>
>> > Can you blame them?
>
>> Yes.  :)
>
>Well, indeed. While our bad behavior would seem to give aliens a good reason to 
>hide from us... if they're so much more advanced than us, they would:
>
>- be compassionate;

Assumes facts not in evidence.

>- realize that humans are conscious beings;

Like we assume ants are conscious beings?

>- recognize that the bad behavior which is harmful to many humans is due to the 
>choices of a few;

How do aliens define "bad behavior"?  Eating babies might be a
necessary part of the ET life cycle.

>- and would possess the means to intervene without any risk, or any significant 
>effort, on their part.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

>So, yes, I would blame them for, say, failing to prevent the Holocaust. And 
>various other unpleasantnesses.

Why would ET consider any of these to be "unpleasantness"?  Quadi, you
can't even manage the tiny stretch in your comprehension that would
let you get a date for Friday night.  What leads you to believe that
you can understand a nonhuman intelligence?

>Not that the Prime Directive is a bad idea.

Unless you're a Klingon.

>When you don't understand an alien species, intervention can easily be 
>disastrous, however well-intentioned.

How does ET define "disastrous"?

>But a sufficiently advanced alien species ought to be able to understand us in a 
>reasonable amount of time. Simply not interfering because they want to learn 
>about uncontaminated primitive behavior is exploitive.

And ET sees "exploitive" as a bad thing because?

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#483973

On 2018-01-01 11:58 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 11:15:00 PM UTC-7, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 1/1/2018 9:08 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <717b31ea-38f8-40a4-a59a-d2666828a54d@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> That is unfalsifiable: "Any sufficiently advanced alien
>>>> species is hiding from us, successfully?"
> 
>>> Can you blame them?
> 
>> Yes.  :)
> 
> Well, indeed. While our bad behavior would seem to give aliens a good reason to
> hide from us... if they're so much more advanced than us, they would:
> 
> - be compassionate;

Technological advancement in no way implies compassion.

> 
> - realize that humans are conscious beings;
> 
> - recognize that the bad behavior which is harmful to many humans is due to the
> choices of a few;

Factually false.

> 
> - and would possess the means to intervene without any risk, or any significant
> effort, on their part.

Note that "intervene" isn't the same thing as "help".

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#484015

On 2018 Jan 02, David Johnston wrote
(in article <p2gm91$lpu$1@gioia.aioe.org>):

> On 2018-01-01 11:58 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> > On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 11:15:00 PM UTC-7, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> > > On 1/1/2018 9:08 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > > > In article<717b31ea-38f8-40a4-a59a-d2666828a54d@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>  wrote:
> >
> > > > > That is unfalsifiable: "Any sufficiently advanced alien
> > > > > species is hiding from us, successfully?"
> >
> > > > Can you blame them?
> >
> > > Yes. :)
> >
> > Well, indeed. While our bad behavior would seem to give aliens a good
> > reason to
> > hide from us... if they're so much more advanced than us, they would:
> >
> > - be compassionate;
>
> Technological advancement in no way implies compassion.
>
> >
> > - realize that humans are conscious beings;
> >
> > - recognize that the bad behavior which is harmful to many humans is due to
> > the
> > choices of a few;
>
> Factually false.
>
> >
> > - and would possess the means to intervene without any risk, or any
> > significant
> > effort, on their part.
>
> Note that "intervene" isn't the same thing as "help".

I am reminded of the story of the sparrow:

"On a beautiful winter day in Siberia, encouraged by the warm rays of the sun 
in a clear blue sky, a little sparrow left the security of his nest to fly 
and frolic in the air, but the 40o below zero temperature quickly overcame 
the imprudent bird who fell to the ground, frozen, and found himself buried 
in the snow where he would certainly have died in an instant. But by chance a 
cow trotted by at that moment, and at the very spot where the sparrow was 
struggling for his last breath, she dropped a large soft cow-dung on top of 
the bird. The warmth of this dung-bath resuscitated the moribund sparrow. He 
was so happy, he raised his head out of the cow-shit and started to twitter 
joyfully, which drew the attention of a wandering homeless cat who delicately 
pulled the sparrow out of the shit and devoured him.
The moral of this story: Your enemy is not necessarily the one who shits on 
your head. Your friend, however, is not necessarily the one who pulls you out 
of the shit. And besides, one should never twitter when one is buried in 
shit.”

The cat intervened. He certainly didn’t help. Is Quaddie _sure_ that he 
wants to twitter while buried in the shit? Possibly this might not be such a 
good idea.

Hmm. It’s Quaddie. None of his ideas are good ideas. Most aren’t 
possible.

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#483967 — Re: OT ? astonishing 'Zoo Theory'

Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
> In article <717b31ea-38f8-40a4-a59a-d2666828a54d@googlegroups.com>,
> Kevrob  <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 11:22:59 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
>>> Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains
>>> astonishing ???Zoo Theory???
>>>
>>
>>Obviously, the Andromeda Hegemony can't interfere in
>>our development.  It would violate their Prime Directive!
>>
>>That is unfalsifiable: "Any sufficiently advanced alien
>>species is hiding from us, successfully?"
>
> Can you blame them?
>

Talk about monstrous humanity always reminds me of a couple of stories.
The first is "Citadel" (Budrys). Alien species hatred of humanity gets
mentioned during its denouement, an excerpt of which is shown below the
spoiler space.
    The other story with monstrous humanity is "Hostess" (Asimov).
There's five intelligent races in the universe, but only humans die of
old age.

*spoiler space*


        Ud Klavan rose from his chair. "You are also right,
    Marlowe. You are a race of maniacs, gibbering across the
    stars. And know, Marlowe, that the other races of the
    universe hate you."
        Marlowe with a tremendous effort heaved himself out
    of his chair.
        "Hate us?" He lumbered around the desk and advanced
    on the frightened Dovenilid, who was retreating backwards
    before his path.
        "Can't you see it? Don't you understand that, if we
    are to pursue any course of action over a long time-if we
    are ever going to achieve a galaxy in which an Earthman
    can some day live at peace with himself-we must each day
    violate all the moral codes and creeds which we held
    inviolate the day before? That we must fight against every
    ideal, every principle which our fathers taught us, because
    they no longer apply to our new logic?
        "You hate us!" He thrust his fat hand, its nails bitten
    down to the quick and beyond, in front of the cringing
    alien's eyes.
        "You poor, weak, single-minded, ineffectual thing! We
    hate ourselves!"

    "Citadel" (Budrys)
    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/26191/26191-h/26191-h.htm

Note.

1. http://archive.org/stream/galaxymagazine-1951-05/Galaxy_1951_05#page/n87/mode/2up

Thank you,

--
Don

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#483950

On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 05:04:34 UTC, Kevrob  wrote:
> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 11:22:59 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> > Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains 
> > astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’
> > 
> 
> Obviously, the Andromeda Hegemony can't interfere in
> our development.  It would violate their Prime Directive!
> 
> That is unfalsifiable: "Any sufficiently advanced alien
> species is hiding from us, successfully?"
> 
> Kevin R

The Shadow Proclamation forbids any advanced civilisation from 
harvesting us before we're ripe.

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#483943

Charles Fort: "I think we're property."

It's not a new idea.

John Savard

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#484099

On 1/1/2018 10:22 PM, a425couple wrote:
> Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains 
> astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’
> 
> A fundamental motivation for the zoo hypothesis would be that premature 
> contact would “unintelligently” reduce the overall diversity of paths 
> the universe itself could take. If there is a plurality of alien 
> cultures, however, this theory may break down under the uniformity of 
> motive concept.
...

Need I mention the Prime Directive ?

Lynn

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#484105

On 2018-01-04 11:10 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 1/1/2018 10:22 PM, a425couple wrote:
>> Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains 
>> astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’
>>
>> A fundamental motivation for the zoo hypothesis would be that 
>> premature contact would “unintelligently” reduce the overall diversity 
>> of paths the universe itself could take. If there is a plurality of 
>> alien cultures, however, this theory may break down under the 
>> uniformity of motive concept.
> ...
> 
> Need I mention the Prime Directive ?

Need I mention that the Ferengi don't give a shit about the Prime 
Directive?

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#484106

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 12:41:32 PM UTC-6, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2018-01-04 11:10 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > On 1/1/2018 10:22 PM, a425couple wrote:
> >> Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains 
> >> astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’
> >>
> >> A fundamental motivation for the zoo hypothesis would be that 
> >> premature contact would “unintelligently” reduce the overall diversity 
> >> of paths the universe itself could take. If there is a plurality of 
> >> alien cultures, however, this theory may break down under the 
> >> uniformity of motive concept.
> > ...
> > 
> > Need I mention the Prime Directive ?
> 
> Need I mention that the Ferengi don't give a shit about the Prime 
> Directive?

"Speaking" of Zoo Theory

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/01/03/8-cheetah-cubs-born-st-louis-zoo/1002457001/


https://books.google.com/books?id=a89b0qhZwOoC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=faster+pussycats,+not+to+be+confused+with+faster+processor&source=bl&ots=5GJjqfB75T&sig=9hopdl8KsJ4D3uDwbru9nwWI4W4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7oeSw-77YAhWJwYMKHePRA3sQ6AEIOTAD#v=onepage&q=faster%20pussycats%2C%20not%20to%20be%20confused%20with%20faster%20processor&f=false

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#484125

On 2018 Jan 04, David Johnston wrote
(in article <p2lsgn$mq5$2@gioia.aioe.org>):

> On 2018-01-04 11:10 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > On 1/1/2018 10:22 PM, a425couple wrote:
> > > Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains
> > > astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’
> > >
> > > A fundamental motivation for the zoo hypothesis would be that
> > > premature contact would “unintelligently” reduce the overall diversity
> > > of paths the universe itself could take. If there is a plurality of
> > > alien cultures, however, this theory may break down under the
> > > uniformity of motive concept.
> > ...
> >
> > Need I mention the Prime Directive ?
>
> Need I mention that the Ferengi don't give a shit about the Prime
> Directive?

neither do the Klingons, Cardassians, Roumulans, Dominion... It’s a long 
list. And was one of the stupider bits of Trekdom, and there was a lot of 
stupid bits of Trekdom.

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#484132

On Thursday, 4 January 2018 21:27:51 UTC, Wolffan  wrote:
> On 2018 Jan 04, David Johnston wrote
> (in article <p2lsgn$mq5$2@gioia.aioe.org>):
> 
> > On 2018-01-04 11:10 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > On 1/1/2018 10:22 PM, a425couple wrote:
> > > > Why aliens are not contacting us if they know about humans? Explains
> > > > astonishing ‘Zoo Theory’
> > > >
> > > > A fundamental motivation for the zoo hypothesis would be that
> > > > premature contact would “unintelligently” reduce the overall diversity
> > > > of paths the universe itself could take. If there is a plurality of
> > > > alien cultures, however, this theory may break down under the
> > > > uniformity of motive concept.
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Need I mention the Prime Directive ?
> >
> > Need I mention that the Ferengi don't give a shit about the Prime
> > Directive?
> 
> neither do the Klingons, Cardassians, Roumulans, Dominion... It’s a long 
> list. And was one of the stupider bits of Trekdom, and there was a lot of 
> stupid bits of Trekdom.

if Star Trek was exclusively about the Borg assimilating 
another species each week, it wouldn't be interesting, 
or educational.  I don't think the episodes about race war
(including on the starship) were too few, either.

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