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Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF

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  Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-10 02:00 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Catherine Jefferson <spamtrap@spambouncer.org> - 2015-11-09 18:59 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-09 22:24 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-09 21:23 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-10 05:30 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-09 23:17 -0700
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-10 09:35 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-10 16:35 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 11:52 -0500
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 12:39 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 11:54 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-10 01:38 -0700
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-09 22:16 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-09 22:38 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-10 03:52 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-10 05:33 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-10 17:34 -0500
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-09 20:31 -0700
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-10 09:38 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-10 16:37 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-10 12:44 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-10 12:28 -0700
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-10 14:39 -0500
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2015-11-10 12:28 -0800
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-10 23:35 -0500
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 00:09 -0500
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 21:46 -0800
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 06:00 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Dan Tilque <dtilque@frontier.com> - 2015-11-17 04:22 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 12:31 -0800
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Dan Tilque <dtilque@frontier.com> - 2015-11-17 13:03 -0800
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-18 13:11 -0800
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-18 15:35 -0700
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-19 15:00 -0500
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 15:06 -0800
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-11-19 21:46 -0600
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-11-10 11:41 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-10 23:32 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-10 10:43 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-11-11 07:49 -0600
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-11 06:55 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 15:59 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-11 13:16 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 17:44 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-13 03:52 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-13 13:21 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 15:31 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-11 13:33 -0500
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-09 21:27 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-09 21:30 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-09 22:51 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-10 01:35 -0700
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-10 15:57 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-10 08:19 -0800
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-10 12:38 -0700
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 21:50 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 03:07 -0500
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Mike Dworetsky" <platinum198@pants.btinternet.com> - 2015-11-10 08:41 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-10 14:26 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-10 06:37 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-10 17:40 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-11-10 17:45 -0800
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF PeterM <petermeilinger@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 18:00 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-13 15:58 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-11 06:54 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 10:37 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-12 18:23 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Vetter <mdhangton@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 11:15 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-10 16:44 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-10 19:59 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-11-10 14:43 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2015-11-10 22:08 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 06:16 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-12 18:25 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-12 21:26 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-13 15:59 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2015-11-10 23:20 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-10 18:11 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2015-11-10 21:59 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-11-11 07:52 -0600
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 05:53 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2015-11-11 15:41 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 08:15 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-11 16:49 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 19:34 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 09:33 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-12 09:51 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-12 23:46 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-12 18:32 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> - 2015-11-27 21:58 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-28 09:31 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-11 10:52 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 19:38 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-11 11:52 -0800
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 17:47 -0500
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-11 15:15 -0800
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-12 11:14 -0500
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-12 16:55 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-11-12 09:18 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-12 09:40 -0800
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-12 17:49 +0000
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-12 12:37 -0700
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Erik Trulsson <erikt@Update.UU.SE> - 2015-11-16 13:40 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 11:46 -0700
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-12 17:32 -0800
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-12 17:54 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-11 13:25 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 07:24 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-12 09:02 -0800
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-12 17:51 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-12 17:46 -0800
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-13 05:01 -0500
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2015-11-11 17:36 -0600
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-10 08:22 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-10 19:59 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2015-11-13 13:44 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-13 10:25 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-14 06:25 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Stephen Allcroft <stephenallcroft@lycos.co.uk> - 2015-11-21 07:30 -0800
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2015-11-22 12:53 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> - 2015-11-10 16:36 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF banjo@dontspam.silent.com - 2015-11-10 17:33 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-12 14:44 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Tim McCaffrey <timcaffrey@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 10:25 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-10 17:49 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-11 01:01 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 19:02 -0500
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "A.G.McDowell" <andrew-mcdowell@o2.co.uk> - 2015-11-10 21:15 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-10 21:36 +0000
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2015-11-10 21:40 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-10 16:33 -0800
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-11-10 17:51 -0800
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-12 13:43 -0800
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-13 16:03 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2015-11-16 14:57 +0000
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-11-16 09:25 -0800
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-16 12:51 -0500
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-16 14:51 -0500
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-16 21:09 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-17 08:41 -0500
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 12:19 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-16 15:57 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 20:59 -0800
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-17 08:47 -0500
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 12:43 -0800
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2015-11-18 11:38 +0000
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-18 06:55 -0500
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 12:18 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2015-11-20 17:57 +0000
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 11:59 -0800
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2015-11-16 22:15 -0800
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 12:29 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-16 15:36 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 12:42 -0800
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-16 21:13 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-11-16 13:54 -0800
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Wayne Brown <fwbrown@bellsouth.net> - 2015-11-16 23:28 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2015-11-16 22:00 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2015-11-17 21:53 -0800
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2015-11-20 18:50 +0000
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 12:05 -0800
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-20 23:07 +0000
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 21:34 -0800
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-21 06:18 +0000
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:35 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 00:34 +0000
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 19:41 -0800
                                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 03:58 +0000
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-21 20:55 -0800
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 12:28 -0800
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-23 16:35 -0800
                                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-24 03:50 +0000
                                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-11-24 04:16 -0800
                                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF nance@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) - 2015-11-24 12:55 +0000
                                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 06:35 -0800
                                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-11-24 06:57 -0800
                                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-24 11:44 -0500
                                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-24 11:43 -0500
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2015-11-22 13:51 +1300
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 01:36 +0000
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-21 19:27 -0800
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-16 23:27 -0700
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 19:12 -0500
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-17 01:55 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-16 21:18 -0500
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 22:45 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-17 05:58 +0000
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-16 23:23 -0700
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 05:57 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "A.G.McDowell" <andrew-mcdowell@o2.co.uk> - 2015-11-10 21:35 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-10 23:58 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-10 23:58 -0500
        Rolling Roads Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-11 01:24 -0700
          Re: Rolling Roads David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-11 01:34 -0700
            Re: Rolling Roads Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-11 07:09 -0800
              Re: Rolling Roads "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 18:40 -0500
                Re: Rolling Roads David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-11 18:28 -0700
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-11 03:40 -0800
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-11 14:20 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-11 09:31 -0500
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-11 15:56 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-12 11:17 -0500
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-11 07:11 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF BCFD36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> - 2015-11-10 17:42 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF synthius2002@yahoo.com - 2015-11-10 20:23 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> - 2015-11-11 06:46 +0000
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-11 03:13 -0500
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-11 09:23 -0500
        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-11 15:40 +0000
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2015-11-12 18:40 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "A.G.McDowell" <andrew-mcdowell@o2.co.uk> - 2015-11-12 21:11 +0000
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-12 23:55 -0500
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-12 22:02 -0700
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-13 14:59 +0000
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-13 08:17 -0800
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2015-11-13 17:01 +0000
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF John Savard <quadibloc@barney-mail.invalid> - 2015-11-13 16:27 +0000
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2015-11-13 14:14 -0500
          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-11-13 21:45 -0700
            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-14 06:08 +0000
              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-11-16 18:18 -0700
                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-17 01:56 +0000
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-18 19:55 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-18 20:55 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Michael Ikeda <mmikeda@erols.com> - 2015-11-18 23:48 +0000
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-18 20:23 -0500
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2015-11-19 01:35 +0000
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-19 03:28 +0000
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2015-11-19 14:45 +0000
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-19 10:01 -0500
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 07:19 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-19 15:54 +0000
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-19 16:56 +0000
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-19 10:55 -0500
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-19 18:34 +0000
                                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 10:50 -0800
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-19 19:21 +0000
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-20 05:11 -0800
                                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-20 15:00 +0000
                                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-19 14:08 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-19 03:21 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-22 15:34 +0000
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 16:25 +0000
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-22 17:32 +0000
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 18:03 +0000
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-22 13:21 -0500
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-22 21:33 +0000
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-22 19:25 -0500
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-23 01:15 +0000
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-11-23 14:31 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-24 00:05 +0000
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2015-11-24 02:24 -0600
                                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-11-24 04:39 -0800
                                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-24 07:51 -0500
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-22 10:41 -0800
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Raymond Daley" <raymond.daley@ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-22 21:16 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-19 15:03 -0500
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-19 15:22 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-11-19 15:32 -0500
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> - 2015-11-19 20:56 +0000
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-19 16:19 -0500
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 13:14 -0800
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-19 16:22 -0500
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 13:49 -0800
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-19 14:28 -0700
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-19 16:30 -0500
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-19 14:31 -0700
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> - 2015-11-19 21:37 +0000
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2015-11-19 16:50 -0500
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 13:53 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> - 2015-11-19 21:56 +0000
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2015-11-19 18:17 -0500
                                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-19 18:43 -0800
                                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 22:24 -0600
                                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2015-11-19 22:31 -0600
                              Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF David Johnston <David@block.net> - 2015-11-19 14:38 -0700
                                Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 13:59 -0800
                            Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF petertrei@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 13:51 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-19 21:46 +0000
                  Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2015-11-19 03:55 +0000
                    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-19 05:36 +0000
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> - 2015-11-19 06:53 +0000
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Chrysi Cat <chrysicat@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 02:37 -0700
                          Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2015-11-20 11:36 +0000
                        Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-20 03:08 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2015-11-19 05:05 -0800
                      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2015-11-19 08:16 -0700
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF mzenier@eskimo.com (Mark Zenier) - 2015-11-11 19:09 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2015-11-14 10:42 +0000
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 21:59 -0800
    Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> - 2015-11-27 22:30 -0800
      Re: Do My Homework! Young People Read Old SF JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> - 2015-11-27 22:33 -0800

Page 11 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 … 15  Next page →

#426081

William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <20151111a@crcomp.net>,
> Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> said:
>
>> William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "The Roads Must Roll" (1940) Robert A. Heinlein
>>>
>>> I have to say, I think that viewed from today -- or even ~1970,
>>> which is when I think I first read "Roads" -- the "the roads move,
>>> rather than staying still while vehicles move on them" concept is
>>> just too... dumb.  I can't even see how Heinlein got away with it in
>>> pre-Interstate Highway System 1940, really.
>>>
>>> (I could live with Asimov's moving sidewalks in THE CAVES OF STEEL,
>>> because they were people-movers that operated at much lower speeds.
>>> I still didn't think them _likely_, even in a civilization that
>>> could trivially build and maintain them, but at least they weren't
>>> suspension-of-eyeroll killers.)
>>
>> Dumb is hardly a distinguishing feature given how things
>> roll. It's dumb for thousands of cars to be stopped on an
>> Interstate Highway in a metro area during rush hour, or any hour,
>> for that matter. It's dumb for workers to commute each day from
>> Los Angeles to the Central Valley to reach affordable housing.
>
> I think there's a distinction between a reasonable or at least
> neutral idea that doesn't work well -- especially when the full
> statement is 'doesn't work well anymore' -- and an idea that was
> dumb to begin with.

Did metro highways ever work well? Highways are extremely political. IOW
a committee determines their destiny. And doesn't that make them dumb
from the get go? :)

###

James, as you can see, _The Roads Must Roll_ provokes lively discussion.
Perhaps it deserves a slot in your 1940s category.

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.
What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say.-JFK/Emerson

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#426182

In article <20151111c@crcomp.net>,
Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> said:

> Did metro highways ever work well?

As far as I know, many did, yes.

> Highways are extremely political. IOW a committee determines their
> destiny. And doesn't that make them dumb from the get go? :)

No.

No smiley.

-- wds

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#426076

On Wednesday, 11 November 2015 14:23:10 UTC, Don Kuenz  wrote:
> William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
> > In article <20151110c@crcomp.net>,
> > Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> said:
> >
> >> More of my favorites:
> >>
> >> "The Roads Must Roll" (1940) Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> > I have to say, I think that viewed from today -- or even ~1970,
> > which is when I think I first read "Roads" -- the "the roads move,
> > rather than staying still while vehicles move on them" concept is
> > just too... dumb.  I can't even see how Heinlein got away with it in
> > pre-Interstate Highway System 1940, really.
> >
> > (I could live with Asimov's moving sidewalks in THE CAVES OF STEEL,
> > because they were people-movers that operated at much lower speeds.
> > I still didn't think them _likely_, even in a civilization that
> > could trivially build and maintain them, but at least they weren't
> > suspension-of-eyeroll killers.)
> 
> Dumb is hardly a distinguishing feature given how things roll. It's dumb
> for thousands of cars to be stopped on an Interstate Highway in a metro
> area during rush hour, or any hour, for that matter. It's dumb for
> workers to commute each day from Los Angeles to the Central Valley to
> reach affordable housing.
> 
> And that's just the traffic. There's more dumb out there than kittens on
> a Missouri farm.
> 
> So, let's call Heinlein's rolling roads impractical. For all of the
> reasons that rasf enumerates from time to time. :)
> 
> More of my favorites:
> 
> "The Tooth" (1952) G. Gordon Dewey
> "Pard" (1972) F. Paul Wilson

How /fast/ is a Heinlein "Road"?  Versus building millions of 
vehicles with individual safety engineering for travelling 
at that speed.

And, how much does it cost to build highways like we've got?

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#426016

On 11/9/15 6:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
> Next year I will be running a humane experiment in which young volunteers
> largely unfamiliar with classic prose SF read and review short works of
> classic SF. I am interested in (but not bound by) suggestions.
>
> The parameters that come to mind are novella or shorter, and pre-1980.
>
> The current plan is two pre-golden age stories (which I have already picked),
> then five stories each from the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s and the 1970s.
> So I guess suggestions should include the year the story was first published.
>
>
Jeffty is Five - Ellison - 1978 (?)
Nine Billion Names of God - Clark - 1953
Nightfall - Azimov, not the novel - 1941
I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream - Ellison - 1967
Deathbird - Ellison - 1974 - But VERY dark, and maybe Fantasy

-- 
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire

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#426023

Lifeboat?

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#426050

On 10/11/2015 02:00, James Nicoll wrote:
> Next year I will be running a humane experiment in which young volunteers
> largely unfamiliar with classic prose SF read and review short works of
> classic SF. I am interested in (but not bound by) suggestions.
>
> The parameters that come to mind are novella or shorter, and pre-1980.
>
> The current plan is two pre-golden age stories (which I have already picked),
> then five stories each from the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s and the 1970s.
> So I guess suggestions should include the year the story was first published.
>
>
For the 70s, no one seems to have mentioned George RR Martin, who might 
be seen as a "gateway drug" for today's _Game of Thrones_ obsessed youth.

Any of

Sandkings (1979)
The Way of Cross and Dragon (1978)
A Song for Lya (1976)

would seem to fit the bill, depending on what mix of styles you need to 
build up a picture.

As a curveball, I'm trying to think of stories that few have heard of 
but stuck in my mind like forever: e.g.

Staras Flonderans (1966) by Kate Wilhelm


-- 
"In 900 years of time and space, I've never met anyone who wasn't
important."

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#426054

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 06:46:00 +0000, Mike M
<mike@xenocyte.com> wrote
in<news:dag6h7Fr424U1@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> As a curveball, I'm trying to think of stories that few
> have heard of but stuck in my mind like forever: e.g. 

> Staras Flonderans (1966) by Kate Wilhelm

I recognize the title, but I don’t remember a thing about
the story; in fact, I don’t remember any of the stories in
_Orbit 1_, though I know that it’s packed in some box
somewhere in this house.

Brian
-- 
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties.  The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

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#426069

In article <dag6h7Fr424U1@mid.individual.net>,
Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> said:

> For the 70s, no one seems to have mentioned George RR Martin, who might
> be seen as a "gateway drug" for today's _Game of Thrones_ obsessed youth.
>
> Any of
>
> Sandkings (1979)
> The Way of Cross and Dragon (1978)
> A Song for Lya (1976)

I don't know that I'd give "Sandkings" to people, at least not
without specific warnings.  It's well-written and very good at what
it does, but what it does is horror and not everybody wants that
injected into their brains.

-- wds

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#426080

In article <n1vj0j$rsk$1@panix2.panix.com>,
William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <dag6h7Fr424U1@mid.individual.net>,
>Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> said:
>
>> For the 70s, no one seems to have mentioned George RR Martin, who might
>> be seen as a "gateway drug" for today's _Game of Thrones_ obsessed youth.
>>
>> Any of
>>
>> Sandkings (1979)
>> The Way of Cross and Dragon (1978)
>> A Song for Lya (1976)
>
>I don't know that I'd give "Sandkings" to people, at least not
>without specific warnings.  It's well-written and very good at what
>it does, but what it does is horror and not everybody wants that
>injected into their brains.

Hear, hear.

My daughter and son-in-law are very gothy, and when I went
upstairs to their part of the house last night they were watching
the tube.  "What's that?" said I.  "American Horror Story," my
daughter said.  "You don't want to watch it."  Which led me to
muse that there's only one horror film that I ever liked, and
that was the first _Poltergeist_ movie, because it was so well
done.

That's why upthread I suggested James be very choosy about
Cordwainer Smith, because so much of his work is so very grim.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#426218

In article <nxnq6y.s4v@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <n1vj0j$rsk$1@panix2.panix.com>,
>William December Starr <wdstarr@panix.com> wrote:
>>In article <dag6h7Fr424U1@mid.individual.net>,
>>Mike M <mike@xenocyte.com> said:
>>
>>> For the 70s, no one seems to have mentioned George RR Martin, who might
>>> be seen as a "gateway drug" for today's _Game of Thrones_ obsessed youth.
>>>
>>> Any of
>>>
>>> Sandkings (1979)
>>> The Way of Cross and Dragon (1978)
>>> A Song for Lya (1976)
>>
>>I don't know that I'd give "Sandkings" to people, at least not
>>without specific warnings.  It's well-written and very good at what
>>it does, but what it does is horror and not everybody wants that
>>injected into their brains.
>
>Hear, hear.
>
>My daughter and son-in-law are very gothy, and when I went
>upstairs to their part of the house last night they were watching
>the tube.  "What's that?" said I.  "American Horror Story," my
>daughter said.  "You don't want to watch it."  Which led me to
>muse that there's only one horror film that I ever liked, and
>that was the first _Poltergeist_ movie, because it was so well
>done.
>
>That's why upthread I suggested James be very choosy about
>Cordwainer Smith, because so much of his work is so very grim.
>
Given how popular YA dystopias are, I don't think grim is an issue.



-- 
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)

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#426239

On 12/11/2015 18:40, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article<nxnq6y.s4v@kithrup.com>,
> Dorothy J Heydt<djheydt@kithrup.com>  wrote:
>> In article<n1vj0j$rsk$1@panix2.panix.com>,
>> William December Starr<wdstarr@panix.com>  wrote:
>>> In article<dag6h7Fr424U1@mid.individual.net>,
>>> Mike M<mike@xenocyte.com>  said:
>>>
>>>> For the 70s, no one seems to have mentioned George RR Martin, who might
>>>> be seen as a "gateway drug" for today's _Game of Thrones_ obsessed youth.
>>>>
>>>> Any of
>>>>
>>>> Sandkings (1979)
>>>> The Way of Cross and Dragon (1978)
>>>> A Song for Lya (1976)
>>>
>>> I don't know that I'd give "Sandkings" to people, at least not
>>> without specific warnings.  It's well-written and very good at what
>>> it does, but what it does is horror and not everybody wants that
>>> injected into their brains.
>>
>> Hear, hear.
>>
>> My daughter and son-in-law are very gothy, and when I went
>> upstairs to their part of the house last night they were watching
>> the tube.  "What's that?" said I.  "American Horror Story," my
>> daughter said.  "You don't want to watch it."  Which led me to
>> muse that there's only one horror film that I ever liked, and
>> that was the first _Poltergeist_ movie, because it was so well
>> done.
>>
>> That's why upthread I suggested James be very choosy about
>> Cordwainer Smith, because so much of his work is so very grim.
>>
> Given how popular YA dystopias are, I don't think grim is an issue.
>
>
>
My sister informed me some time ago that YA reading material aimed at my 
Nephew tended to explore some of the grittier side of life, so I guess I 
can confirm this, however inconsistent it might seem with the current 
topics of microagressions, trigger warnings, and safe spaces.

If you are looking to investigate lack of fit between period of writing 
and period of reading, you really need to find a way to throw some 
E.E.Smith at your subjects, if only because his futuristic slang terms 
appear to have been somewhat out of registration even when they were 
written. I have seen attempts to produce collections of excerpts, such 
as http://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-E-E-Smith-Orbit-Books/dp/0860078736 (I 
suspect an ideological agenda behind this, but I can't resist imagining 
a PC reaction to Smith's dialogue for Shiro in the early Skylark books 
just out of devilment).

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#426280

In article <n22me8$g3g$1@reader1.panix.com>,
jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:

> Given how popular YA dystopias are, I don't think grim is an issue.

Just as an aside, I suspect that there aren't many that _end_ grimly
though.  (E.g., a la 1984.)

Using 'end' to mean 'how the overall series ends, rather than an
individual book in it' where appropriate, which is probably all of
them these days.

-- wds

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#426283

On 11/12/2015 9:55 PM, William December Starr wrote:
> In article <n22me8$g3g$1@reader1.panix.com>,
> jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:
>
>> Given how popular YA dystopias are, I don't think grim is an issue.
>
> Just as an aside, I suspect that there aren't many that _end_ grimly
> though.  (E.g., a la 1984.)

This is true.  That's the difference between a YA dystopia and the 
traditional kind.  YA dystopias end with with the dystopia being 
significantly undermined.

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#426329

David Johnston <David@block.net> wrote:
> On 11/12/2015 9:55 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>> In article <n22me8$g3g$1@reader1.panix.com>,
>> jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:
>>
>>> Given how popular YA dystopias are, I don't think grim is an issue.
>>
>> Just as an aside, I suspect that there aren't many that _end_ grimly
>> though.  (E.g., a la 1984.)
>
> This is true.  That's the difference between a YA dystopia and the
> traditional kind.  YA dystopias end with with the dystopia being
> significantly undermined.

The dystopia is insignificantly undermined in _Hunger Games_.

Va gur raq gur tnzrf ner tbar naq gur byq obff vf tbar. Ohg gur uhatre'f
fgvyy gurer naq gur arj srznyr obff vf gur fnzr nf gur byq znyr obff.
Fbzr Qvfgevpgf ner jbefr bss ng gur raq orpnhfr gur byq obff obzorq
gurz. Gur Zbpxvatwnl pbzrf gb grezf jvgu gur snpg gung gur eribyhgvba
bayl tbg evq bs gur tnzrf (vg unq gb, sbe nccrnenaprf fnxr) naq gung nyy
obffrf, arj be byq, hfr ure nf n cnja.

"Fear of the Walking Dead: The American Police State Takes Aim"
http://tinyurl.com/pynpcfk contains a plethora of links. One link points
to the new _Pride and Prejudice and Zombies_ movie. [1] Another link
points to zombie culture at a gun show. [2]

In the end it's a grim genre. (Far too grim for me as a matter of fact.)
Perhaps that's why James doesn't think grim is an issue with YA.

Note.

1. http://tinyurl.com/p9ltpmm
2. http://tinyurl.com/pwe7unm

--
 ,-.                              There was a young lady named Bright
 \_/                              Whose speed was far faster than light;
{|||)<   Don Kuenz KB7RPU            She set out one day
 / \                                 In a relative way
 `-'                              And returned on the previous night.

What you do speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say.-JFK/Emerson

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#426342

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 8:01:59 AM UTC-7, Don Kuenz wrote:

> The dystopia is insignificantly undermined in _Hunger Games_.

Having seen the movie 'Catching Fire' in the series, and having heard how the 
series will end, it's clear that those responsible definitely wanted moral 
ambiguities, and resolutely resisted writing agitprop for The American Way of 
Freedom as opposed to totalitarianism, which is totally evil, whether practiced 
by Nazis or (Godless!) Commies.

I find this a shame, because the crimes of the McCarthyites did not undo the 
crimes of Stalin. I think that an honest view of totalitarian dictatorships 
indeed does approach the Manichaean, whether one likes such points of view from 
an aesthetic standpoint or not.

John Savard

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#426344

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 8:01:59 AM UTC-7, Don Kuenz wrote:
>
>> The dystopia is insignificantly undermined in _Hunger Games_.
>
> Having seen the movie 'Catching Fire' in the series, and having heard how the
> series will end, it's clear that those responsible definitely wanted moral
> ambiguities, and resolutely resisted writing agitprop for The American Way of
> Freedom as opposed to totalitarianism, which is totally evil, whether practiced
> by Nazis or (Godless!) Commies.
>
> I find this a shame, because the crimes of the McCarthyites did not undo the
> crimes of Stalin. I think that an honest view of totalitarian dictatorships
> indeed does approach the Manichaean, whether one likes such points of view from
> an aesthetic standpoint or not.

My comment pertains to the novels. _Mockingjay_ is the last book in the
trilogy and it was published in 2010. So far the movies remain faithful
to the books.

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU

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#426343

On Fri, 13 Nov 2015 14:59:37 +0000, Don Kuenz wrote:
> David Johnston <David@block.net> wrote:

>> This is true.  That's the difference between a YA dystopia and the
>> traditional kind.  YA dystopias end with with the dystopia being
>> significantly undermined.
> 
> The dystopia is insignificantly undermined in _Hunger Games_.

Huh? My understanding was that gur qvpgngbefuvc jnf pbzcyrgryl bireguebja, 
naq gur urebvar abg bayl jnf vafgehzragny va npuvrivat gung, ohg _va 
nqqvgvba_, fur rafherq gung gur arj obff jbhyq _abg_ or gur fnzr nf gur 
byq obff... nygubhtu yvggyr gunaxf fur tbg sbe gung.

Of course, not having read the novel, or seen the sequel to the movie I 
did see, it could well be that my understanding is wrong, and yours is 
more accurate.

John Savard

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#426367

On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 22:02:35 -0700, David Johnston
<David@block.net> wrote in<news:n23qp1$3ok$1@dont-email.me>
in rec.arts.sf.written:

> On 11/12/2015 9:55 PM, William December Starr wrote:

>> In article <n22me8$g3g$1@reader1.panix.com>,
>> jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) said:

>>> Given how popular YA dystopias are, I don't think grim
>>> is an issue.

>> Just as an aside, I suspect that there aren't many that
>> _end_ grimly though.  (E.g., a la 1984.)

> This is true.  That's the difference between a YA
> dystopia and the traditional kind.  YA dystopias end
> with with the dystopia being significantly undermined.

M.T. Anderson’s _Feed_ is an exception.

Brian
-- 
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties.  The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

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#426437

begin  fnord
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

> My daughter and son-in-law are very gothy, and when I went
> upstairs to their part of the house last night they were watching
> the tube.  "What's that?" said I.  "American Horror Story," my
> daughter said.  "You don't want to watch it."

That is quite an understatement.

-- 
Steve Coltrin    spcoltri@omcl.org   Google Groups killfiled here 
  "A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel 
  to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed." 
  - Associated Press 

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#426445

In article <m2d1vdgpel.fsf@kelutral.omcl.org>,
Steve Coltrin  <spcoltri@omcl.org> wrote:
>begin  fnord
>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
>> My daughter and son-in-law are very gothy, and when I went
>> upstairs to their part of the house last night they were watching
>> the tube.  "What's that?" said I.  "American Horror Story," my
>> daughter said.  "You don't want to watch it."
>
>That is quite an understatement.
>
Well, *they* were enjoying it.  They're, as I said fairly gothy.
But my daughter has known me all her life and knows my tastes.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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