Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology

Newsgroups	rec.arts.sf.written
From	djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject	Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology
Message-ID	<p83vyn.vyA@kithrup.com> (permalink)
Date	2018-05-02 14:51 +0000
References	<pc2gf5$eqk$1@gioia.aioe.org> <p82wBA.ntp@kithrup.com> <uloied1aptbgouf25cea576nks031821gk@reader80.eternal-september.org> <p83s30.noC@kithrup.com>
Organization	Kithrup Enterprises, Ld.

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In article <p83s30.noC@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <uloied1aptbgouf25cea576nks031821gk@reader80.eternal-september.org>,
>Lawrence Watt-Evans  <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 2 May 2018 02:01:58 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <fkshvcFio4lU2@mid.individual.net>,
>>>Greg Goss  <gossg@gossg.org> wrote:
>>>>David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 2018-04-30 7:52 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>> I know that happened to Shakespeare. But Tolkien? Didn't he raid old
>>>>literature for his tropes?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>Doesn't everyone.  But can you think of an example of a Sauron-like Dark 
>>>>>Lord with a horde of monster soldiers before Tolkien?
>>>>
>>>>The witch's flying monkeys?
>>>
>>>The question would then arise, whether Tolkien ever *read* _The
>>>Wizard of Oz._
>>
>>Probably.  He read a lot, including American fiction.
>>
>>He apparently took an interest in American culture, partly because he
>>discovered there were Anglo-Saxon family names surviving in Appalachia
>>that had gone extinct in England (e.g., Brinegar -- I knew several
>>Brinegars when we lived in the Kentucky hills).
>>
>>And speaking of the Inklings, let us not forget that C.S. Lewis said
>>that he swiped some of the ideas in "The Great Divorce" from an
>>American SF pulp magazine.  Not something I'd expect him to have read.
>>
>He and Tolkien both read some SF.  At one point they got together
>and said, "Okay, let's us write some SF/F," and Lewis wrote the
>Ransom trilogy and Tolkien wrote, IIRC, _Autrou and Itroun,_
>which didn't sell until after he'd died.
>
>But note that Lewis could write more quickly than Tolkien, who
>was always going back and revising.
>
>Somewhere on disk, I believe, I still have the post where
>somebody identified the SF story Lewis referenced (~"His hero
>traveled into the past, and there found grass that wounded the
>feet and apples that couldn't be bitten into, because the past
>can't be changed."~)  I'll see if I can find it.

Update:  Found it.

In 2002, Fred Galvin posted as follows:

>I think this may be it: Charles F. Hall, "The Man Who Lived
>Backwards", Tales of Wonder [British], Summer, 1938. I haven't seen it
>myself; I'm going by the review on p. 217 of Paul J. Nahin, Time
>Machines, Second Edition, Springer, 1999, ISBN 0-387-98571-9.  Quoting
>from Nahin's book:
>
>
>  The tale tells of a young physics teacher who is "twisted into a
>  reversed Time Stream" by an electrical discharge. As he lives
>  backward in time, he observes everybody about him appearing to
>  run in reverse, but even more puzzling is that they have developed
>  a "dreadful, granite-like hardness." We soon learn why:
>
>     For a while he could not understand the inpenetrable hardness
>     of external objects which he had experienced; it seemed
>     they ought rather to be of intangible transience, much as a
>     dream, since he was re-viewing the Past. But a moment's
>     thought gave him the logical answer. The Past is definite,
>     shaped, unalterable, as nothing else in Creation is.  Therefore,
>     to argue that he could move or alter any object here [the
>     past] was to argue that he could change the whole history of
>     the world or cosmos. Everything he saw about him had happened,
>     and could not be changed in any way. On the other hand he was
>     fluid, movable, alterable, since _his_ future still lay before
>     him, even if it had been reversed; he was the intruder, the
>     anomaly. In any clash between himself and the Past, the Past
>     would prove irresistible every time.
>
>  This is, I believe, a unique presentation of the unchangeability
>  of the past. Why Hall's young teacher could displace the molecules
>  of the Past's air, however, is left unanswered.


-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

Thread

Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-28 13:01 -0600
  Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-29 12:24 +0000
    Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-29 14:35 -0400
      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-29 12:41 -0600
      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-29 13:05 -0700
      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-29 14:08 -0700
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-29 14:28 -0700
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-29 21:47 +0000
      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-29 20:51 +0000
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-29 14:23 -0700
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-29 17:48 -0400
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-29 16:08 -0600
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-04-30 14:21 +1200
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-30 03:46 -0500
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-30 06:52 -0700
              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-30 14:12 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-30 10:28 -0700
              Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-30 10:10 -0600
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-30 16:24 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-30 10:41 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-30 12:27 -0600
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-30 13:03 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 15:46 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-04-30 18:17 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-04-30 21:01 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-05-01 19:18 -0600
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 22:25 -0400
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-05-02 02:01 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 03:07 -0400
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-05-02 13:28 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-05-02 07:45 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-05-02 14:51 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2018-05-09 00:04 -0300
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-05-09 04:09 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-06-04 00:06 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-06-05 02:27 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-06-05 12:50 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-06-05 06:53 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-06-05 14:52 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-06-05 09:00 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-06-05 09:16 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-06-05 13:07 -0400
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-06-05 11:13 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-06-05 15:01 -0400
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-06-05 19:05 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 02:39 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 02:30 -0400
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 09:06 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-05-02 09:30 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 12:41 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2018-05-02 20:33 +0000
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Johnny1A <johnny1a.again@gmail.com> - 2018-05-16 22:06 -0700
                Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-03 00:19 +0000
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 02:34 -0400
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 05:36 -0700
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-30 13:47 +0000
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 12:29 -0400
          Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-30 13:30 +0000
            Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-30 16:09 +0000
      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-29 21:29 +0000
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 02:35 -0400
      Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-30 03:43 -0500
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-30 02:00 -0700
        Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 06:59 -0700
  Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-29 06:21 -0700
    Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-29 15:24 +0000
  Re: Ray Bradbury and his issue with technology Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-29 14:06 -0700

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