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Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov

From Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net>
Newsgroups rec.arts.sf.written
Subject Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov
Date 2016-09-02 16:21 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <20160902a@crcomp.net> (permalink)
References (8 earlier) <nqanku$1ag$1@dont-email.me> <20160901b@crcomp.net> <30ab5c6a-041c-4ead-96d6-69c9c0fbb442@googlegroups.com> <20160901c@crcomp.net> <robertaw-B43616.22162701092016@news.individual.net>

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Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
> In article <20160901c@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>> hamish.laws@gmail.com wrote:
>> > On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 1:25:43 PM UTC+10, Don Kuenz wrote:
>> >> David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> > On 9/1/2016 6:40 PM, Don Kuenz wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>> >>
>> >> This thread finally prodded me into a re-read of the whole story.
>> >> Michael got it right up thread. This story requires a complete lack of
>> >> knowledge of celestial mechanics.
>> >>
>> >> One way to achieve "a total darkness all over" Lagash is to change the
>> >> story and have the red dwarf Beta eclipse Alpha and the two distant
>> >> companion pairs. And then have a moon eclipse Beta.
>> >>
>> >> Unfortunately, the story has the other five suns setting. It just
>> >> doesn't work unless you stretch "a total darkness all over" to mean that
>> >> Lagash eventually experiences "a total darkness all over" as each
>> >> longitudinal slice of the planet rotates into the total eclipse.
>> >>
>> > It's been a fair while since I read the story but is it possible that
>> > there's only one small landmass on the planet?
>>
>> My first re-read was too fast by half. A far more careful re-read of
>> pertinent parts revealed this essential bit:
>>
>>     Beta is alone in its hemisphere and at maximum distance, at
>>     which time the moon is invariably at minimum distance. The
>>     eclipse that results, with the moon seven times the apparent
>>     diameter of Beta, covers all of Lagash and lasts well over
>>     half a day, so that no spot on the planet escapes the effects.
>>
>> That's my second scenario. The one where the whole planet of Lagash
>> eventually experiences darkness as each longitudinal slice rotates
>> into the eclipse. The celestial mechanics work out after all.
>
> IIRC, nobody ever noticed the eclipsing object. That will require an
> albedo significantly less than the Moon's (which is pretty low).

It's a shame that your useful world "albedo" is missing from the story.
Regardless, here's how the story explains the heretofore hidden moon:

        "What if there were another non-luminous planetary body
    such as Lagash? If there were, you know, it would shine only
    by reflected light, and if it were composed of bluish rock,
    as Lagash itself largely is, then, in the redness of the sky,
    the eternal blaze of the suns would make it invisible - drown
    it out completely."

How about that upcoming total eclipse of the sun that passes over
America? It happens on August 21 2017. My residence is about one mile
away from the center line.

http://www.eclipse2017.org/2017/path_through_the_US.htm

BTW Dave, the Shakespeare section of _Bartlett's Familiar Quotations_
is probably the largest section in the book. It begins on page 171 and
ends on page 231. And now it's time to squeeze yet another eclipse quote
out of _Bartlett's_. :0)

Thank you,

--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU

Not mine own fears, nor the prophetic soul
Of the wide world dreaming on things to come,
Can yet the lease of my true love control,
Suppos'd as forfeit to a confin'd doom.
The mortal moon hath her eclipse endur'd,
And the sad augurs mock their own presage;
Incertainties now crown themselves assur'd,
And peace proclaims olives of endless age.
  -Shakespeare

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Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2016-08-31 19:59 +0000
  Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 15:54 -0500
    Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov news{@bestley.co.uk (Mark Bestley) - 2016-08-31 22:43 +0100
      Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-08-31 18:30 -0500
        Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-08-31 19:00 -0700
        Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-01 03:10 -0600
        Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2016-09-01 13:41 +0000
      Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2016-09-01 03:58 +0000
        Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 12:37 -0500
          Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-09-01 18:07 +0000
          Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-01 11:34 -0700
            Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 15:15 -0500
              Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-09-01 13:48 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 16:24 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 15:45 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 15:47 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-02 00:40 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-09-01 18:18 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 20:20 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov TB <tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us> - 2016-09-01 19:46 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-01 21:09 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-01 20:47 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov TB <tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us> - 2016-09-02 03:13 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-02 03:25 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov hamish.laws@gmail.com - 2016-09-01 20:48 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-02 04:34 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-09-01 22:16 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov TB <tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us> - 2016-09-02 07:32 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov TB <tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us> - 2016-09-02 07:33 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-03 00:22 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 21:39 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-02 22:57 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov TB <tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us> - 2016-09-02 21:28 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2016-09-03 05:33 +0200
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 23:39 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov TB <tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us> - 2016-09-02 21:25 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Paul Colquhoun <newsposter@andor.dropbear.id.au> - 2016-09-03 18:22 +1000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-03 10:10 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-04 00:38 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-09-03 20:23 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-03 08:31 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-03 10:14 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-03 08:25 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-03 08:31 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-02 16:21 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov TB <tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us> - 2016-09-02 10:39 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 13:17 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-09-02 23:03 +0100
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 17:54 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-03 00:03 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 21:35 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-09-02 16:08 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-02 21:16 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov 103134.3516@compuserve.com - 2016-09-07 12:56 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-09-07 19:05 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-07 22:21 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-08 04:53 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-09-09 00:12 +0100
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-08 17:00 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-08 22:36 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-09-09 08:34 +0100
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-09 04:41 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov tsbrueni@gmail.com - 2016-09-09 03:31 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@sometimes.sessile.org> - 2016-09-09 16:36 +0100
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 09:11 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-09-09 09:45 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-09 09:52 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-09 11:18 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 10:29 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 12:17 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 12:20 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-09-09 19:59 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-09 14:14 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 14:44 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-09 15:35 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 16:00 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 14:34 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-09-09 19:19 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-10 04:40 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 08:21 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-10 07:09 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 10:49 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-10 08:19 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 12:27 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-10 10:47 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-10 12:49 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 17:15 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2016-09-10 14:20 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 10:29 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 12:47 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-10 10:55 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-10 12:51 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 17:18 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-11 05:45 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-09-12 00:06 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-09-10 11:22 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-10 10:33 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 14:33 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-09-09 15:13 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 16:00 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-09 16:08 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 10:36 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-09 16:06 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-09 16:10 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-10 12:49 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Charles Bishop <ctbishop@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-10 14:43 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-09-10 17:57 -0400
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 20:20 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 20:27 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 19:51 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 21:16 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 18:08 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 19:40 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Tom Kratman <tomkratman@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 17:31 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov TB <tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us> - 2016-09-14 18:16 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 22:26 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-11 05:38 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-12 21:55 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov 103134.3516@compuserve.com - 2016-09-16 12:06 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-11 05:30 -0700
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-02 00:12 -0600
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-02 08:53 -0500
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2016-09-02 01:33 +0000
                Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-09-01 21:53 -0600
              Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-09-01 20:11 -0400
              Re: Young People Read Old SFF: Nightfall by Isaac Asimov Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-09-02 07:50 -0700

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