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Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas

From Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Newsgroups linux.kernel
Subject Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas
Date 2017-07-06 02:30 +0200
Message-ID <u02Qa-5ct-9@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <tZTtw-7s2-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <tZVbY-77-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <tZVlE-aF-27@gated-at.bofh.it> <tZWhH-MR-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <u02n7-4Gm-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> wrote:
>> Right.  But I think the approach that we're all taking here is a bit
>> nutty.  We all realize that this issue is a longstanding *GCC* bug
>> [1], but we're acting like it's a Big Deal (tm) kernel bug that Must
>> Be Fixed (tm) and therefore is allowed to break ABI.  My security hat
>> is normally pretty hard-line, but I think it may be time to call BS.
>>
>> Imagine if Kees had sent some symlink hardening patch that was
>> default-on and broke a stock distro.  Or if I had sent a vsyscall
>> hardening patch that broke real code.  It would get reverted right
>> away, probably along with a diatribe about how we should have known
>> better.  I think this stack gap stuff is the same thing.  It's not a
>> security fix -- it's a hardening patch.
>>
>> Looking at it that way, I think a new inherited-on-exec flag is nucking futs.
>>
>> I'm starting to think that the right approach is to mostly revert all
>> this stuff (the execve fixes are fine).  Then start over and think
>> about it as hardening.  I would suggest the following approach:
>>
>>  - The stack gap is one page, just like it's been for years.
>>  - As a hardening feature, if the stack would expand within 64k or
>> whatever of a non-MAP_FIXED mapping, refuse to expand it.  (This might
>> have to be a non-hinted mapping, not just a non-MAP_FIXED mapping.)
>> The idea being that, if you deliberately place a mapping under the
>> stack, you know what you're doing.  If you're like LibreOffice and do
>> something daft and are thus exploitable, you're on your own.
>>  - As a hardening measure, don't let mmap without MAP_FIXED position
>> something within 64k or whatever of the bottom of the stack unless a
>> MAP_FIXED mapping is between them.
>>
>> And that's all.  It's not like a 64k gap actually fixes these bugs for
>> real -- it just makes them harder to exploit.
>>
>> [1] The code that GCC generates for char buf[bug number] and alloca()
>> is flat-out wrong.  Everyone who's ever thought about it all all knows
>> it and has known about it for years, but no one cared to fix it.
>
> As part of that should we put restrictions on the environment of
> set*id exec too? Part of the risks demonstrated by Qualys was that
> allowing a privilege-elevating binary to inherit rlimits can have lead
> to the nasty memory layout side-effects. That would fall into the
> "hardening" bucket as well. And if it turns out there is some set*id
> binary out there that can't run with "only", e.g., 128MB of stack, we
> can make it configurable...

Yes.  I think it's ridiculous that you can change rlimits and then
exec a setuid thing.  It's not so easy to fix, though.  Maybe track,
per-task, inherited by clone and exec, what the rlimits were the last
time the process had privilege and reset to those limits when running
something setuid.  But a better approach might be to have some sysctls
that say what the rlimits become when doing setuid.

We need per-user-ns sysctls for stuff like this, and we don't really
have them...

--Andy

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Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-04 02:00 +0200
  Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-04 02:10 +0200
    Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 10:50 +0200
      Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 11:40 +0200
        Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-04 11:50 +0200
          Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 12:50 +0200
            Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-04 13:40 +0200
              Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 14:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 14:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-04 14:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 14:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> - 2017-07-04 16:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 16:50 +0200
              Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-04 18:00 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 19:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-04 20:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-04 20:50 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-04 21:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-04 20:50 +0200
              Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-04 18:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas John Haxby <john.haxby@oracle.com> - 2017-07-04 18:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-04 19:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 14:30 +0200
              Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-04 19:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 14:30 +0200
              Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 01:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-05 01:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-05 08:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-05 10:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-05 10:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-05 11:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 14:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-05 16:00 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-05 16:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-05 18:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-06 09:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 14:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-05 16:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 17:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-05 18:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 19:00 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-05 19:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 19:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-05 19:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-06 01:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-06 02:00 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-06 10:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-06 12:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> - 2017-07-05 18:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-05 18:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> - 2017-07-05 19:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-05 21:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-05 22:50 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2017-07-05 23:00 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2017-07-06 02:00 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> - 2017-07-06 02:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2017-07-06 02:00 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-06 02:00 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> - 2017-07-06 02:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-06 02:50 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> - 2017-07-06 02:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2017-07-06 04:50 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-06 07:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Kevin Easton <kevin@guarana.org> - 2017-07-06 07:40 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-05 18:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-05 21:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> - 2017-07-05 21:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-05 21:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2017-07-05 21:20 +0200
                Re: [vs-plain] Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas "kseifried@redhat.com" <kseifried@redhat.com> - 2017-07-05 03:20 +0200
                Re: [vs-plain] Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Solar Designer <solar@openwall.com> - 2017-07-05 16:20 +0200
        Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 12:50 +0200
          Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 13:00 +0200
  Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> - 2017-07-04 02:30 +0200
  Re: [vs-plain] Re: [PATCH] mm: larger stack guard gap, between vmas John Haxby <john.haxby@oracle.com> - 2017-07-04 14:30 +0200

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