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Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory

From Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
Newsgroups linux.kernel
Subject Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory
Date 2015-11-27 21:10 +0100
Message-ID <qzxvb-7sb-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <qyG7w-5tK-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <qz0zf-2JX-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <qz7r3-7xJ-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <qzmgq-eI-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <qzvD4-6jW-29@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Linus Torvalds
<torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> wrote:
>>
>> * Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> wrote:
>>
>>> > Can you see any fragility in such a technique?
>>>
>>> After Linus shot down my rdmsr/rwmsr decoding patch, good luck...
>>
>> I think that case was entirely different, but I've Cc:-ed Linus to shoot my idea
>> down if it's crap.
>
> Yeah, no, I hate it. I'm with the PaX team on this one - I think there
> are three valid responses, and I think we might want to have a dynamic
> config option (kernel command line or proc or whatever) to pick
> between the two:
>
>  - just oops and kill the machine, like for any other unhandled kernel
> page fault. This is probably what you should have on a server

This is how the v2 series works now.

>  - print a warning and a backtrace, and just mark the page read-write
> so that the machine survives, but we get notified and can fix whatever
> broken code

This seems very easy to add. Should I basically reverse the effects of
mark_rodata_ro(), or should I only make the new ro-after-init section
as RW? (I think the former would be easier.)

>  - have an option to disable the RO data logic.

I added this as "rodata=off" in the v2 series.

> I think that second option is good for debugging. In some places,
> oopses that kill things are just too hard to debug (ie it might be the
> modesetting or early boot or whatever).
>
> In fact, I think we should _start_ with the second option - perhaps
> just during the rc's - and then when we're pretty sure all the silly
> bugs it finds (maybe none, who knows) are handled, we should go to the
> first one.
>
> The third option would be purely for "user that cannot fix things
> directly and has reported the problem can now turn off the distracting
> warning". We should never default to it.
>
> Trying to actually *recover* any other way thanm by turning the area
> read-write is just too damn fragile. You can't just skip over the
> instruction that does the write - there are flags values etc that get
> updated by read-modify-write instructions, but as PaX says, there nmay
> also be subsequent logic that gets confused and actually introduces
> even *more* problems downstream if the write is just discarded.
>
> So maybe we could have some kind of "mark it read-only again later"
> thing that tries to make sure it doesn't stay writable for a long
> time, but quite frankly, I don't think it's worth it. Once the write
> has been done, and the warning has been emitted, there's likely very
> little upside to then trying to close the barn doors after that horse
> has bolted.
>
>                  Linus

-Kees

-- 
Kees Cook
Chrome OS & Brillo Security
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[PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-11-24 22:40 +0100
  [PATCH 1/2] x86: introduce post-init read-only memory Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-11-24 22:40 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 1/2] x86: introduce post-init read-only memory Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2015-11-25 01:40 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 1/2] x86: introduce post-init read-only memory Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-11-25 01:50 +0100
        Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH 1/2] x86: introduce post-init  read-only memory Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au> - 2015-11-25 02:00 +0100
          Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH 1/2] x86: introduce post-init  read-only memory Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-11-25 16:10 +0100
            Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH 1/2] x86: introduce post-init  read-only memory Michael Ellerman <mpe@ellerman.id.au> - 2015-11-26 00:10 +0100
              Re: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH 1/2] x86: introduce post-init  read-only memory Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-11-26 00:40 +0100
  [PATCH 2/2] x86, vdso: mark vDSO read-only after init Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-11-24 22:50 +0100
  Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Mathias Krause <minipli@googlemail.com> - 2015-11-25 10:20 +0100
    Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory Clemens Ladisch <clemens@ladisch.de> - 2015-11-25 11:10 +0100
      Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory "PaX Team" <pageexec@freemail.hu> - 2015-11-25 12:20 +0100
    Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory "PaX Team" <pageexec@freemail.hu> - 2015-11-25 12:10 +0100
      Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2015-11-26 10:00 +0100
        Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory "PaX Team" <pageexec@freemail.hu> - 2015-11-26 11:00 +0100
          Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2015-11-26 11:50 +0100
            Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory "PaX Team" <pageexec@freemail.hu> - 2015-11-26 13:20 +0100
              Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2015-11-27 09:10 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory "PaX Team" <pageexec@freemail.hu> - 2015-11-27 16:40 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2015-11-27 17:40 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2015-11-29 09:10 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory "PaX Team" <pageexec@freemail.hu> - 2015-11-29 12:20 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2015-11-29 16:40 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Mathias Krause <minipli@googlemail.com> - 2015-11-29 19:10 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2015-11-30 09:10 +0100
        Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2015-11-26 17:20 +0100
          Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2015-11-27 09:10 +0100
            Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2015-11-27 19:10 +0100
            Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2015-11-27 19:10 +0100
              Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-11-27 21:10 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2015-11-27 21:10 +0100
                Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> - 2015-11-29 09:10 +0100
    Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-11-25 18:30 +0100
    Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com> - 2015-11-25 18:40 +0100
      Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only memory Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-11-25 20:00 +0100
        Re: [kernel-hardening] [PATCH 0/2] introduce post-init read-only  memory "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com> - 2015-11-25 20:10 +0100

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