Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable

From	Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	linux.kernel
Subject	Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable
Date	2015-09-24 18:10 +0200
Message-ID	<qchfR-7YI-39@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On 2015-09-24 09:12, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 07:37:39AM -0400, Austin S Hemmelgarn wrote:
>> Using /dev/urandom directly, yes that doesn't make sense because it
>> consistent returns non-uniformly random numbers when used to generate larger
>> amounts of entropy than the blocking pool can source
>
> Why do you think this is the case?   Reproduction, please?
>
> 					- Ted
Aside from the literature scattered across the web and the fact that it 
fails Dieharder tests way more than a high quality RNG should (even a 
good one should fail from time to time, one that never does is 
inherently flawed for other reasons, but I've had cases where I've done 
thousands of dieharder runs, and it failed almost 10% of the time, while 
stuff like mt19937 fails in otherwise identical tests only about 1-2% of 
the time)?  I will admit that it is significantly better than any libc 
implementation of rand() that I've seen, and many other PRNG's (notably 
including being significantly more random than the FIPS 140 DRBG's), but 
it does not do as well (usually) as stuff like OpenBSD's /dev/aranedom 
(which is way more processor intensive as well from what I've seen) or 
some of the high quality RNG's found in the GSL.

And it's also worth noting that this is with regards to systems that are 
consistently getting significantly less entropy into the blocking pool 
than is being sourced from the non-blocking pool by userspace (that is 
greater than a 100 times or so).

In short, I would not trust it as a CSPRNG (although I wouldn't trust 
most things touted as CSPRNG's either), or even for important 
simulations that need _lots_ of random numbers.  I'm not saying that it 
shouldn't be used for stuff like seeding other PRNG's however (and TBH, 
I do trust it more for that than I trust stuff like RDSEED or RDRAND).

Thread

[PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> - 2015-09-23 01:20 +0200
  [PATCH 2/3] random: Make input to output pool balancing per cpu Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> - 2015-09-23 01:20 +0200
  Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> - 2015-09-23 01:30 +0200
  Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Rasmus Villemoes <linux@rasmusvillemoes.dk> - 2015-09-23 12:40 +0200
    Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> - 2015-09-24 00:00 +0200
  Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-23 21:50 +0200
    Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org> - 2015-09-24 01:30 +0200
      Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 13:40 +0200
        Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2015-09-24 15:20 +0200
          Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 18:10 +0200
            Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net> - 2015-09-24 19:00 +0200
              Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-24 21:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Jeff Epler <jepler@unpythonic.net> - 2015-09-24 22:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2015-09-24 22:20 +0200
                Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 13:50 +0200
                Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-25 21:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2015-09-25 22:30 +0200
                Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 14:10 +0200
                Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-29 14:00 +0200
  Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> - 2015-09-23 23:20 +0200
    Re: [PATCH 1/3] Make /dev/urandom scalable Andi Kleen <ak@linux.intel.com> - 2015-09-23 23:30 +0200

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