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Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and default it to 'n')

From Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
Newsgroups linux.kernel
Subject Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and default it to 'n')
Date 2015-09-02 17:40 +0200
Message-ID <q4iiK-JG-9@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References <q4cGm-17b-15@gated-at.bofh.it> <q4gTD-7hJ-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 2015 2:51 AM, "Stas Sergeev" <stsp@list.ru> wrote:
>>
>> https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/7/21/208
>>
>> Guys, you gonna be kidding.
>> Is this a new trend of breaking dosemu, or what?
>>
>>> VM86 is entirely broken if ptrace, syscall auditing, or
>>> NOHZ_FULL is in use.  The code is a big undocumented mess, it's
>>> a real PITA to test, and it looks like a big chunk of vm86_32.c
>>
>>
>> It is a CPU feature that kernel should support, and always
>> did without any problems. If it started to have problems because
>> of your actions, then you can as well fix your code.
>>
>> > No one should be using it anyway. Use DOSBOX or KVM instead.
>>
>> Have you done the benchmarks between dosbox and dosemu
>> before saying that? Please do, thanks. (don't forget to include
>> dosemu2 in your benchmarks too, as it outperforms both)
>
> I wasn't aware of your dosemu variant at the time, and I incorrectly
> thought that dosemu was unmaintained.
>
> Does real mode performance matter any more?
>
>>
>>> Let's accelerate its slow death.
>>
>>
>
> Dosemu is much less dead than I thought it was when I wrote that
> patch.  Sorry :(
>
>>
>> > + Enabling this option adds considerable attack surface to the
>> > + kernel and slows down system calls and exception handling.
>>
>> Yes, I realize that threatening people with the "considerable attack surface"
>> is a good way to "accelerate its slow death", but please care to explain
>> that attack surface, thankyou.
>
> The user_mode vs user_mode_vm thing was scary and contained at least
> one real bug.  That particular issue is gone now, though.
>
> Before Brian's cleanups, vm86 did horrible things to the entry asm,
> the stack layout, and signal handling, and that scared me.  That's
> hopefully in much better shape now, though.
>
> The mark_screen_rdonly thing is still kind of scary.  It changes PTEs
> on arbitrary mappings behind the vm's back.
>
> I'd be amenable to switching the default back to y and perhaps adding
> a sysctl to make the distros more comfortable.  Ingo, Kees, Brian,
> what do you think?

Yeah, I think putting this under distro control (and user control) is
the best option here.

-Kees


-- 
Kees Cook
Chrome OS Security
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Thread

stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-02 11:40 +0200
  Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2015-09-02 16:10 +0200
    Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-09-02 17:40 +0200
    Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-02 19:40 +0200
    Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Josh Boyer <jwboyer@fedoraproject.org> - 2015-09-02 19:50 +0200
      Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-02 20:00 +0200
        Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Josh Boyer <jwboyer@fedoraproject.org> - 2015-09-02 22:30 +0200
          Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-02 22:50 +0200
            Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2015-09-02 23:00 +0200
              Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Josh Boyer <jwboyer@fedoraproject.org> - 2015-09-02 23:00 +0200
              Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-02 23:10 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2015-09-02 23:50 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-02 23:50 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 14:20 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-03 14:20 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 17:50 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-03 18:40 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 21:00 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-03 23:30 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86  and default it to 'n') Chuck Ebbert <cebbert.lkml@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 12:10 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-04 12:50 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 14:40 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-04 15:10 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 22:00 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-04 23:20 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-04 23:30 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Raymond Jennings <shentino@gmail.com> - 2015-09-05 00:50 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-05 01:20 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-04 00:40 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2015-09-03 19:00 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2015-09-03 19:30 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-03 19:40 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-03 19:30 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-03 19:20 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Stas Sergeev <stsp@list.ru> - 2015-09-03 14:10 +0200
                Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Austin S Hemmelgarn <ahferroin7@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 14:10 +0200
      Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> - 2015-09-02 20:00 +0200
        Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Josh Boyer <jwboyer@fedoraproject.org> - 2015-09-02 22:30 +0200
      Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> - 2015-09-02 20:20 +0200
        Re: stop breaking dosemu (Re: x86/kconfig/32: Rename CONFIG_VM86 and  default it to 'n') Josh Boyer <jwboyer@fedoraproject.org> - 2015-09-02 22:30 +0200

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