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USB wireless dongle not detected

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  USB wireless dongle not detected Richard Hobson <hobsonrj@gmail.com> - 2019-07-17 15:00 +0200
    Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-07-17 15:40 +0200
    Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Roger Price <debian@rogerprice.org> - 2019-07-17 16:10 +0200
      Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Richard Hobson <hobsonrj@gmail.com> - 2019-07-17 17:10 +0200
        Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Roger Price <debian@rogerprice.org> - 2019-07-17 17:10 +0200
          Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Richard Hobson <hobsonrj@gmail.com> - 2019-07-17 18:40 +0200
        Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-07-17 18:00 +0200
          Re: Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Richard Hobson <hobsonrj@gmail.com> - 2019-07-18 18:50 +0200
            Re: Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-07-18 19:00 +0200
              Re: Re: Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Richard Hobson <hobsonrj@gmail.com> - 2019-07-18 19:30 +0200
            Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-07-18 19:00 +0200
              Re: Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Richard Hobson <hobsonrj@gmail.com> - 2019-07-18 19:50 +0200
                Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-07-18 22:10 +0200
                  Re: Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Richard Hobson <hobsonrj@gmail.com> - 2019-07-19 01:30 +0200
                    Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-07-19 05:00 +0200
            Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-07-18 19:10 +0200
        Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-07-18 08:10 +0200
          Re: USB wireless dongle not detected David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-07-18 23:50 +0200
            Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2019-07-19 00:20 +0200
    Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-07-17 16:30 +0200
    Re: USB wireless dongle not detected Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-07-17 16:50 +0200

Page 1 of 2  [1] 2  Next page →

#211468 — USB wireless dongle not detected

Hi,

I've just installed Debian 10 and have no network connectivity. The PC has 
an Ethernet card but I use a USB dongle (StarTech) for practical reasons. 
I've previously used this in an installation of OpenSuse on the same machine 
and although it wasn't detected at install time it was on first boot and I 
was able to use the graphical configuration tool to set it up, so there is 
clearly some support in Linux for the device.

However, in Debian 10 all I can find in the graphical configuration tool is 
the Ethernet card.

I'm using the Gnome desktop, although would like to switch to KDE, but 
that's another question. :-)

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks, RH

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#211470

On 07/17/2019 07:40 AM, Richard Hobson wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've just installed Debian 10 and have no network connectivity. The PC 
> has an Ethernet card but I use a USB dongle (StarTech) for practical 
> reasons. I've previously used this in an installation of OpenSuse on the 
> same machine and although it wasn't detected at install time it was on 
> first boot and I was able to use the graphical configuration tool to set 
> it up, so there is clearly some support in Linux for the device.
> 
> However, in Debian 10 all I can find in the graphical configuration tool 
> is the Ethernet card.
> 
> I'm using the Gnome desktop, although would like to switch to KDE, but 
> that's another question. :-)
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas?
> 
> Thanks, RH
> 

I've had some odd experiences with connecting via USB.
T-mobile is my provider and I use one of their WiFi Hotspots(WiFi 
programmed off) to access the internet.

On one machine I had problems if it was plugged in when I did power on 
of the laptop. I suggest turning computer power on with it disconnected 
and then plugging it in after having logged into Debian. If nothing else 
it will provide a data point. YMMV

HTH

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#211472

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, Richard Hobson wrote:

> ...I use a USB dongle (StarTech) for practical reasons. I've 
> previously used this in an installation of OpenSuse on the same machine and 
> although it wasn't detected at install time it was on first boot and I was 
> able to use the graphical configuration tool to set it up, ...

Perhaps openSUSE automatically loaded the required firmware, but Debian does 
not.  Does dmesg have anything to say about StarTech firmware?

Roger

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#211476

Thanks for the suggestion Roger.

I'm not sure how to search the dsmesg output so I unplugged the device and 
replugged it so that the relevant message appeared at the bottom of the 
output. (I know, RTFM!).

The dongle is being correctly identified as far as I can see, says the 
manufacturer is Realtek, the chipset maker, and picks up the MAC address 
amongst other things.

I'm having to transpose the following info manually, obviously can't copy 
and paste to mail! The important messages seem to be. (EOE)

usb 1-2: r8712u: Loading firmware from "rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin

usb 1-2: firmware failed to load rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin (-2)

usb 1-2: Direct firmware load for rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin failed with error -2

usb 1-2: r8712u: Firmware request failed.

Does this suggest the appropriate firmware isn't available locally?

If so some help on how I obtain it would be very much appreciated.

Thanks, RH

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, Roger Price wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, Richard Hobson wrote:
>
>> ...I use a USB dongle (StarTech) for practical reasons. I've previously 
>> used this in an installation of OpenSuse on the same machine and although 
>> it wasn't detected at install time it was on first boot and I was able to 
>> use the graphical configuration tool to set it up, ...
>
> Perhaps openSUSE automatically loaded the required firmware, but Debian does 
> not.  Does dmesg have anything to say about StarTech firmware?
>
> Roger
>

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#211477

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, Richard Hobson wrote:

> usb 1-2: firmware failed to load rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin (-2)
>
> Does this suggest the appropriate firmware isn't available locally?

Could well be. Perhaps you need package firmware-realtek.
I take the easy route and use synaptic to search for and load packages.

Roger

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#211483

If only but not easy without a network connection :-(

Looks like a delve in the repository using the Windoze laptop and a 
transfer on a memory stick.

R

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, Roger Price wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Jul 2019, Richard Hobson wrote:
>
>> usb 1-2: firmware failed to load rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin (-2)
>> 
>> Does this suggest the appropriate firmware isn't available locally?
>
> Could well be. Perhaps you need package firmware-realtek.
> I take the easy route and use synaptic to search for and load packages.
>
> Roger
>

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#211480

On 2019-07-17, Richard Hobson <hobsonrj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> usb 1-2: Direct firmware load for rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin failed with error -2
>
> usb 1-2: r8712u: Firmware request failed.
>
> Does this suggest the appropriate firmware isn't available locally?

I think so.

> If so some help on how I obtain it would be very much appreciated.
>

apt install 'firmware-realtek' (you need to activate the 'non-free'
portion of the respository).

Of course, if you have no network connectivity on the machine, this
might prove to be a difficult maneuver. However, you could download the
package from another machine with connectivity and transfer it via sneakernet
to the machine with the realtek wifi dongle, where it might be installed
like this (as root or with sudo):

 dpkg -i firmware-realtek_20190502-1_all.deb

https://packages.debian.org/sid/all/firmware-realtek/download

-- 
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
― Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

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#211519

Curt wrote:
> Of course, if you have no network connectivity on the machine, this
> might prove to be a difficult maneuver. However, you could download the
> package from another machine with connectivity and transfer it via sneakernet
> to the machine with the realtek wifi dongle, where it might be installed
> like this (as root or with sudo):
> 
>  dpkg -i firmware-realtek_20190502-1_all.deb

Thanks for the link. I've downloaded the package, transferred it to the 
PC using a USB stick and run dpkg as above.

I get two warnings followed by a related error.

warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable
warning: 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable
error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable

then a note about what root's path should usually contain
/usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin

It's about ten years since I last used Linux and I can't even remember 
how to check the PATH! However, I doubt there's anything wrong with it 
in a new installation.

Does it matter where I've put the .deb file? At the moment it's in the 
Downloads directory of my userbname and I'm runnng dpkg from there as root.

R


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#211520

On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 05:28:18PM +0100, Richard Hobson wrote:
> warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable
> warning: 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable
> error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable

https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes

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#211525

Greg Wooledge wrote:

> https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes

Thanks Greg, RTFM always works.

R

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#211522

On 2019-07-18, Richard Hobson <hobsonrj@gmail.com> wrote:
> Curt wrote:
>> Of course, if you have no network connectivity on the machine, this
>> might prove to be a difficult maneuver. However, you could download the
>> package from another machine with connectivity and transfer it via sneakernet
>> to the machine with the realtek wifi dongle, where it might be installed
>> like this (as root or with sudo):
>> 
>>  dpkg -i firmware-realtek_20190502-1_all.deb
>
> Thanks for the link. I've downloaded the package, transferred it to the 
> PC using a USB stick and run dpkg as above.
>
> I get two warnings followed by a related error.
>
> warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable
> warning: 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable
> error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable

I guess now you gotta use 'su -' when switching to root (as of Buster),
otherwise, trouble ensues.

> then a note about what root's path should usually contain
> /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin
>
> It's about ten years since I last used Linux and I can't even remember 
> how to check the PATH! However, I doubt there's anything wrong with it 
> in a new installation.
>
> Does it matter where I've put the .deb file? At the moment it's in the 
> Downloads directory of my userbname and I'm runnng dpkg from there as root.
>
> R
>
>
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> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>
>


-- 
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
― Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

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#211527

FIXED. su - worked a treat and I'm now looking at the Debian home page 
on the Linux box.

I got some odd messages from dpkg about possible missing firmware in

/lib/firmware/nvidia/gp108/.... mostly for "module nouveau".

so presumably my graphics card. I've not noticed any problems with the 
graphics but I've yet to use it much. We'll see.

Thanks to Greg and Curt for the info about su - and Gene for the correct 
syntax for checking a PATH.

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#211533

On Thursday 18 July 2019 13:31:23 Richard Hobson wrote:

> FIXED. su - worked a treat and I'm now looking at the Debian home page
> on the Linux box.
>
> I got some odd messages from dpkg about possible missing firmware in
>
> /lib/firmware/nvidia/gp108/.... mostly for "module nouveau".
>
> so presumably my graphics card. I've not noticed any problems with the
> graphics but I've yet to use it much. We'll see.

All video cards should respond to the vesa driver. Trolling 
thru /var/log/Xorg.0.log with 'less' will answer that question. But vesa 
has I believe a max resolution of 800x600 so while it will work it will 
not work to the cards or monitors real capabilities.  There 2 schools of 
thought, one being to go get from Nvidia, the correct driver for your 
card.  But that driver does not play nice with applications that need 
realtime or near realtime kernel performance as it can lock other 
processes away from the kernel by disabling IRQ responses, sometimes for 
hundreds of milliseconds in its efforts to give you fast graphics. 
Nvidia has been kind enough to throw some friendlier code over the legal 
wall which has allowed the linux folks to write drivers for these cards, 
and that driver is much nicer to apps that need realtime access to the 
kernels services. By not hogging the IRQ's.

This driver, called "nouveau", is available from most all the distro's 
and can be installed directly from the repo's with the distros favorite 
package manager as soon as you get a working network connection going.

> Thanks to Greg and Curt for the info about su - and Gene for the
> correct syntax for checking a PATH.

Thank you for the flowers, Richard.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#211538

Gene Heskett wrote:
> All video cards should respond to the vesa driver. Trolling 
> thru /var/log/Xorg.0.log with 'less' will answer that question. But vesa 
> has I believe a max resolution of 800x600 so while it will work it will 
> not work to the cards or monitors real capabilities.  There 2 schools of 
> thought, one being to go get from Nvidia, the correct driver for your 
> card.  But that driver does not play nice with applications that need 
> realtime or near realtime kernel performance as it can lock other 
> processes away from the kernel by disabling IRQ responses, sometimes for 
> hundreds of milliseconds in its efforts to give you fast graphics. 
> Nvidia has been kind enough to throw some friendlier code over the legal 
> wall which has allowed the linux folks to write drivers for these cards, 
> and that driver is much nicer to apps that need realtime access to the 
> kernels services. By not hogging the IRQ's.
> 
> This driver, called "nouveau", is available from most all the distro's 
> and can be installed directly from the repo's with the distros favorite 
> package manager as soon as you get a working network connection going.

Vesa, now there's a word I've not come across for a long time. I'm not 
sure what the resolution is it's using but it's certainly better than 
800x600. However, clearly things are not quite right and I'm hoping that 
now I'm online and can use the appropriate software management tools it 
will be sorted out for me. The information above is invaluable because 
now I know what I'm looking for and why.
> 
>> Thanks to Greg and Curt for the info about su - and Gene for the
>> correct syntax for checking a PATH.
> 
> Thank you for the flowers, Richard.

I couldn't get roses, I hope the daffodils will suffice.

R

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#211540

On Thursday 18 July 2019 19:06:55 Richard Hobson wrote:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > All video cards should respond to the vesa driver. Trolling
> > thru /var/log/Xorg.0.log with 'less' will answer that question. But
> > vesa has I believe a max resolution of 800x600 so while it will work
> > it will not work to the cards or monitors real capabilities.  There
> > 2 schools of thought, one being to go get from Nvidia, the correct
> > driver for your card.  But that driver does not play nice with
> > applications that need realtime or near realtime kernel performance
> > as it can lock other processes away from the kernel by disabling IRQ
> > responses, sometimes for hundreds of milliseconds in its efforts to
> > give you fast graphics. Nvidia has been kind enough to throw some
> > friendlier code over the legal wall which has allowed the linux
> > folks to write drivers for these cards, and that driver is much
> > nicer to apps that need realtime access to the kernels services. By
> > not hogging the IRQ's.
> >
> > This driver, called "nouveau", is available from most all the
> > distro's and can be installed directly from the repo's with the
> > distros favorite package manager as soon as you get a working
> > network connection going.
>
> Vesa, now there's a word I've not come across for a long time. I'm not
> sure what the resolution is it's using but it's certainly better than
> 800x600. However, clearly things are not quite right and I'm hoping
> that now I'm online and can use the appropriate software management
> tools it will be sorted out for me. The information above is
> invaluable because now I know what I'm looking for and why.
>
> >> Thanks to Greg and Curt for the info about su - and Gene for the
> >> correct syntax for checking a PATH.
> >
> > Thank you for the flowers, Richard.
>
> I couldn't get roses, I hope the daffodils will suffice.
>
> R
Neither last worth a toot when cut and vased. :) The thought lasts 
longer.  Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#211523

On Thursday 18 July 2019 12:28:18 Richard Hobson wrote:

> Curt wrote:
> > Of course, if you have no network connectivity on the machine, this
> > might prove to be a difficult maneuver. However, you could download
> > the package from another machine with connectivity and transfer it
> > via sneakernet to the machine with the realtek wifi dongle, where it
> > might be installed like this (as root or with sudo):
> >
> >  dpkg -i firmware-realtek_20190502-1_all.deb
>
> Thanks for the link. I've downloaded the package, transferred it to
> the PC using a USB stick and run dpkg as above.
>
> I get two warnings followed by a related error.
>
> warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable
> warning: 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable
> error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable
>
> then a note about what root's path should usually contain
> /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin
>
> It's about ten years since I last used Linux and I can't even remember
> how to check the PATH! However, I doubt there's anything wrong with it
> in a new installation.
>
> Does it matter where I've put the .deb file? At the moment it's in the
> Downloads directory of my userbname and I'm runnng dpkg from there as
> root.
>
> R
echo $PATH. And expect it to be different between yourself and sudo 
whoever.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#211496

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 18/07/19 2:44 AM, Richard Hobson wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestion Roger.
> 
> I'm not sure how to search the dsmesg output so I unplugged the device
> and replugged it so that the relevant message appeared at the bottom of
> the output. (I know, RTFM!).
> 
> The dongle is being correctly identified as far as I can see, says the
> manufacturer is Realtek, the chipset maker, and picks up the MAC address
> amongst other things.
> 
> I'm having to transpose the following info manually, obviously can't
> copy and paste to mail! The important messages seem to be. (EOE)
> 
> usb 1-2: r8712u: Loading firmware from "rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin
> 
> usb 1-2: firmware failed to load rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin (-2)
> 
> usb 1-2: Direct firmware load for rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin failed with error -2
> 
> usb 1-2: r8712u: Firmware request failed.
> 
> Does this suggest the appropriate firmware isn't available locally?

Maybe, but maybe not. Are there other attempts later, with different files?

IIRC it's relatively normal to try different files till you get the
right one.

I suspect that file is present, or it wouldn't be able to try to load
it. And it seems to be provided in the firmware-realtek package,
suggesting you already have that package. But it could be corrupted, I
suppose. Or your hardware might require newer firmware, though that
seems unlikely if OpenSUSE worked and buster doesn't.

BTW please don't top-post on the list - the rest of us don't, so it
really confuses the order of the conversation :-)

Richard

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#211536

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu 18 Jul 2019 at 18:08:14 (+1200), Richard Hector wrote:
> On 18/07/19 2:44 AM, Richard Hobson wrote:
> > Thanks for the suggestion Roger.
> > 
> > I'm not sure how to search the dsmesg output so I unplugged the device
> > and replugged it so that the relevant message appeared at the bottom of
> > the output. (I know, RTFM!).
> > 
> > The dongle is being correctly identified as far as I can see, says the
> > manufacturer is Realtek, the chipset maker, and picks up the MAC address
> > amongst other things.
> > 
> > I'm having to transpose the following info manually, obviously can't
> > copy and paste to mail! The important messages seem to be. (EOE)
> > 
> > usb 1-2: r8712u: Loading firmware from "rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin
> > 
> > usb 1-2: firmware failed to load rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin (-2)
> > 
> > usb 1-2: Direct firmware load for rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin failed with error -2
> > 
> > usb 1-2: r8712u: Firmware request failed.
> > 
> > Does this suggest the appropriate firmware isn't available locally?
> 
> Maybe, but maybe not. Are there other attempts later, with different files?
> 
> IIRC it's relatively normal to try different files till you get the
> right one.
> 
> I suspect that file is present, or it wouldn't be able to try to load
> it. And it seems to be provided in the firmware-realtek package,
> suggesting you already have that package. But it could be corrupted, I
> suppose. Or your hardware might require newer firmware, though that
> seems unlikely if OpenSUSE worked and buster doesn't.

I think the OP's problem has been fixed now.

But just for the record, those error messages match what I see when
the firmware package and the firmware itself are not present (at all),
as you can see from the attached sequence of sys/history logs.

Cheers,
David.

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#211537

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 19/07/19 9:42 AM, David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 18 Jul 2019 at 18:08:14 (+1200), Richard Hector wrote:
>> On 18/07/19 2:44 AM, Richard Hobson wrote:
>>> Thanks for the suggestion Roger.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how to search the dsmesg output so I unplugged the device
>>> and replugged it so that the relevant message appeared at the bottom of
>>> the output. (I know, RTFM!).
>>>
>>> The dongle is being correctly identified as far as I can see, says the
>>> manufacturer is Realtek, the chipset maker, and picks up the MAC address
>>> amongst other things.
>>>
>>> I'm having to transpose the following info manually, obviously can't
>>> copy and paste to mail! The important messages seem to be. (EOE)
>>>
>>> usb 1-2: r8712u: Loading firmware from "rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin
>>>
>>> usb 1-2: firmware failed to load rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin (-2)
>>>
>>> usb 1-2: Direct firmware load for rtlwifi/rtl8712u.bin failed with error -2
>>>
>>> usb 1-2: r8712u: Firmware request failed.
>>>
>>> Does this suggest the appropriate firmware isn't available locally?
>>
>> Maybe, but maybe not. Are there other attempts later, with different files?
>>
>> IIRC it's relatively normal to try different files till you get the
>> right one.
>>
>> I suspect that file is present, or it wouldn't be able to try to load
>> it. And it seems to be provided in the firmware-realtek package,
>> suggesting you already have that package. But it could be corrupted, I
>> suppose. Or your hardware might require newer firmware, though that
>> seems unlikely if OpenSUSE worked and buster doesn't.
> 
> I think the OP's problem has been fixed now.
> 
> But just for the record, those error messages match what I see when
> the firmware package and the firmware itself are not present (at all),
> as you can see from the attached sequence of sys/history logs.

Thanks for the tip :-)

And yes, it looks like that (lack of firmware) was indeed the problem.

Cheers,
Richard

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#211474

On Wednesday 17 July 2019 08:40:57 Richard Hobson wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've just installed Debian 10 and have no network connectivity. The PC
> has an Ethernet card but I use a USB dongle (StarTech) for practical
> reasons. I've previously used this in an installation of OpenSuse on
> the same machine and although it wasn't detected at install time it
> was on first boot and I was able to use the graphical configuration
> tool to set it up, so there is clearly some support in Linux for the
> device.
>
> However, in Debian 10 all I can find in the graphical configuration
> tool is the Ethernet card.
>
> I'm using the Gnome desktop, although would like to switch to KDE, but
> that's another question. :-)
>
> Does anyone have any ideas?
>Yes, showq us the output of

ip a
ip r

please.

> Thanks, RH
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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