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forcedeth?

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  forcedeth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-02 13:30 +0200
    Re: forcedeth? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2019-05-02 14:20 +0200
    Re: forcedeth? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2019-05-02 20:20 +0200
      Re: forcedeth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-02 22:30 +0200
        Re: forcedeth? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2019-05-25 12:40 +0200
          Re: forcedeth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-25 13:00 +0200
            Re: forcedeth? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-05-25 13:40 +0200
              Re: forcedeth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-25 17:30 +0200
                That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-05-27 04:20 +0200
                  Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-27 06:50 +0200
                    Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-05-27 08:10 +0200
                      Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-27 18:20 +0200
                      Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2019-05-27 19:20 +0200
                        Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-05-28 17:50 +0200
                          Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2019-05-28 19:20 +0200
                            Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2019-05-28 20:40 +0200
                    Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-27 09:00 +0200
                      Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-05-27 09:50 +0200
                        Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-27 11:00 +0200
                        Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-27 11:00 +0200
                          Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2019-05-27 19:30 +0200
                        Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2019-05-27 19:30 +0200
                          Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-05-27 22:00 +0200
                            Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2019-05-28 08:40 +0200
                              Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-05-28 13:20 +0200
                        Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-27 19:50 +0200
                          Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-05-27 21:30 +0200
                            Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-27 23:30 +0200
                              Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-05-28 00:50 +0200
                                Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 04:50 +0200
                              Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-05-28 05:10 +0200
                          Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-27 21:50 +0200
                            Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 00:20 +0200
                              Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-05-28 05:40 +0200
                                Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-05-28 09:50 +0200
                                  Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-05-28 10:00 +0200
                                    Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-28 10:50 +0200
                                  Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-28 10:00 +0200
                                  Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-05-28 18:00 +0200
                                    Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-05-28 18:50 +0200
                                Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 14:10 +0200
                                  Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-05-28 14:40 +0200
                                    Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 15:10 +0200
                                      Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-05-28 15:50 +0200
                                        Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 17:00 +0200
                                  Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2019-05-28 14:50 +0200
                      Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-27 19:20 +0200
                    IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-05-27 15:00 +0200
                      Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-27 15:20 +0200
                      Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-27 20:20 +0200
                        Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-05-27 21:30 +0200
                          Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-27 23:10 +0200
                            Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-28 06:40 +0200
                            Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-05-28 07:50 +0200
                              Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 14:40 +0200
                                Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's  church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-05-28 15:00 +0200
                                  Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 15:10 +0200
                                Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2019-05-28 15:10 +0200
                                Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2019-05-28 15:40 +0200
                                  Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 16:30 +0200
                            Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-05-28 13:10 +0200
                              Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-28 15:00 +0200
                                Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-28 15:30 +0200
                                  Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 16:00 +0200
                                    Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-05-28 16:50 +0200
                                Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 15:30 +0200
                                Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church  (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-05-28 15:40 +0200
                                  Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 16:20 +0200
                              Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-28 15:00 +0200
                      Re: IPV6 hosts file (was: Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's  church (Was Re: forcedeth?)) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-05-28 03:00 +0200
              Re: forcedeth? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-05-25 18:40 +0200
                Re: forcedeth? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-05-25 19:10 +0200

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#208030 — forcedeth?

Greetings all;

Ha anything been done to forcedeth since wheezy? I have installed the 
LCNC version of stretch on two machines so far, an old Dell GX520 and 
this machine, which has an Asus M2n-sli deluxe mobo, which has nvidia 
ethernet ports using forcedeth.

The network was easy to make work after the install (the installer 
doesn't keep the settings its given, and which work during the install, 
but there is no way to get the networking going after the installs 
reboot on this machine. I have a hosts file based local network with 
about 10 names in the /etc/hosts file. hostname and domainname are 
properly set on both machines,

/etc/resolv.conf reports:
gene@vna:/etc$ cat resolv.conf
search coyote.den
nameserver 192.168.71.1

On both machines.

To get the Dell to work, all I had to do was 
edit /etc/network/interfaces.d/setup and make it look like this:
gene@vna:/etc/network/interfaces.d$ cat setup
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.71.7/24
gateway 192.168.71.1

And restart the networking.

But on this machine the stretch install shows:
gene@coyote:/etc$ cat /media/usb0/etc/network/interfaces.d/setup
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.71.3/24
gateway 192.168.71.1

And theres no way to even trace its failure because strace is not 
installed. The error message is very explicit, RTNETWORK, whatever the 
heck that is, says "file exists", followed by "failed."

Do I file a bug against forcedeth? or whats next?  Or if someone is using 
forcedeth and made it work, what did you do?  I am at wits end.

Thanks for reading everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#208031

Gene Heskett wrote:
...
> And theres no way to even trace its failure because strace is not 
> installed. The error message is very explicit, RTNETWORK, whatever the 
> heck that is, says "file exists", followed by "failed."
>
> Do I file a bug against forcedeth? or whats next?  Or if someone is using 
> forcedeth and made it work, what did you do?  I am at wits end.
>
> Thanks for reading everybody.

  strace doesn't have any dependencies so you should
be able to grab that deb from /var/cache/apt/archives
on the machine that is working or from the on-line
repositories.

  have you tried the latest testing installer images?

  and i always set the boot parameter to get eth0 naming
from the kernel:  net.ifnames=0

  sorry i cannot be more specific, but i don't have that
hardware.


  songbird

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#208050

Le 02/05/2019 à 13:25, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> 
> Ha anything been done to forcedeth since wheezy?

Why are you asking ?

> I have installed the LCNC version of stretch

What is LCNC and how does if differ from vanilla stretch ?

> The network was easy to make work after the install (the installer
> doesn't keep the settings its given, and which work during the install,
> but there is no way to get the networking going after the installs
> reboot on this machine.

The installer uses the same ethernet drivers as the installed system. If 
the NIC driver worked during the installation, it should work equally in 
the installed system and your problem is a configuration issue.

> To get the Dell to work, all I had to do was 
> edit /etc/network/interfaces.d/setup
(...)
> And restart the networking.

Do not do this. It does not work. ifupdown does not keep state of the 
original configuration, so when you stop the interface using the new 
configuration which does not match th old one, you will get errors. Stop 
the interface(s), edit the config files(s) and start the interface(s) 
instead.

> And theres no way to even trace its failure because strace is not
> installed. The error message is very explicit, RTNETWORK, whatever the
> heck that is, says "file exists", followed by "failed."

Configuration issue. You don't need strace.
1) Check the contents of all /etc/network/interfaces{,d/*}
2) Check the current interface status with ip addr
2) Run ifdown -v --force eth0 ; ifup -v eth0

> Do I file a bug against forcedeth?

What seriously makes you thing forcedeth is involved ?

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#208055

On Thursday 02 May 2019 14:18:53 Pascal Hambourg wrote:

> Le 02/05/2019 à 13:25, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > Ha anything been done to forcedeth since wheezy?
>
> Why are you asking ?
>
> > I have installed the LCNC version of stretch
>
> What is LCNC and how does if differ from vanilla stretch ?

Probably the biggest diff is the substitution of a fully preempt-rt 
patched kernel, real time enough to run heavy machinery which is what 
LinuxCNC, AKA LCNC linux does.  Not fully RTAI patched, but that guy got 
tired of the fights trying to get his patches into mainstream and walked 
away several years ago. With his patches, timeing of irq response was 
way less than a 10 microsecond timing wibble so it was possible to drive 
stepper motors thru a power amp directly from the parport.  With a 
preempt-rt kernel, the wibbles are in the 30 to 50 microsecond range and 
several venders have cards the offload the cpu's job to their fpga based 
card which can tolerate that well enough that if one of those cards is 
used instead of the parport, a machine that could move 12 to 15 inches a 
minute, can be moved at 200 inches a minute.  But the card costs around 
$80-$260 depending on what it can do, raising the bar for converting an 
old machine to CNC by that much more.
>
> > The network was easy to make work after the install (the installer
> > doesn't keep the settings its given, and which work during the
> > install, but there is no way to get the networking going after the
> > installs reboot on this machine.
>
> The installer uses the same ethernet drivers as the installed system.
> If the NIC driver worked during the installation, it should work
> equally in the installed system and your problem is a configuration
> issue.

Which is exactly why my original post quoted all those config things.

> > To get the Dell to work, all I had to do was
> > edit /etc/network/interfaces.d/setup
>
> (...)
>
> > And restart the networking.
>
> Do not do this. It does not work. ifupdown does not keep state of the
> original configuration, so when you stop the interface using the new
> configuration which does not match th old one, you will get errors.
> Stop the interface(s), edit the config files(s) and start the
> interface(s) instead.

I'll do that, but what diff does it make when its never worked except 
during the install?

> > And theres no way to even trace its failure because strace is not
> > installed. The error message is very explicit, RTNETWORK, whatever
> > the heck that is, says "file exists", followed by "failed."
>
> Configuration issue. You don't need strace.
> 1) Check the contents of all /etc/network/interfaces{,d/*}

Just one file there on both machines, /etc/network/interfaces.d/setup and 
except for the machines ipv4 address's, are identical.  There is no ipv6 
stuff outside of my local network for at least 100 miles, this is West 
by God Virginia. ANY flat land is made by a bulldozer with a nearby 
tanker of #2 diesel.

> 2) Check the current interface status with ip addr
> 2) Run ifdown -v --force eth0 ; ifup -v eth0
>
> > Do I file a bug against forcedeth?
>
> What seriously makes you thing forcedeth is involved ?

That, and the hardware its running, are the remaining major diffs in the 
networking setup between the 2 machines and the two installs.

This machine is running wheezy perfectly and is using a forcedeth that is 
from an lsmod # forcedeth   65295  0 <-- no links?  WTH is it running?
                            ^^^^^
from this choice of kernels:
gene@coyote:~$ ls -l `locate forcedeth.ko`

This is the running kernel
2017 /lib/modules/3.16.0-0.bpo.4-amd64/kernel/drivers/net/ethernet/nvidia/forcedeth.ko
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  75384 Dec 10                                                    

None of which match the one running, WTH?

Your turn, now I am really confused....

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#209122

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Jo, 02 mai 19, 16:19:08, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 02 May 2019 14:18:53 Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> 
> > Le 02/05/2019 à 13:25, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > > Ha anything been done to forcedeth since wheezy?
> >
> > Why are you asking ?
> >
> > > I have installed the LCNC version of stretch
> >
> > What is LCNC and how does if differ from vanilla stretch ?
> 
> Probably the biggest diff is the substitution of a fully preempt-rt 
> patched kernel, real time enough to run heavy machinery which is what 
> LinuxCNC, AKA LCNC linux does.

My cristal ball says LinuxCNC is using the standard Debian kernel during 
the install.

You could try booting from the standard Debian kernel and see if there 
are any changes. If yes, the culprit is most likely the LinuxCNC kernel.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#209125

On Saturday 25 May 2019 06:37:05 am Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Jo, 02 mai 19, 16:19:08, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 02 May 2019 14:18:53 Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> > > Le 02/05/2019 à 13:25, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > > > Ha anything been done to forcedeth since wheezy?
> > >
> > > Why are you asking ?
> > >
> > > > I have installed the LCNC version of stretch
> > >
> > > What is LCNC and how does if differ from vanilla stretch ?
> >
> > Probably the biggest diff is the substitution of a fully preempt-rt
> > patched kernel, real time enough to run heavy machinery which is
> > what LinuxCNC, AKA LCNC linux does.
>
> My cristal ball says LinuxCNC is using the standard Debian kernel
> during the install.
>
> You could try booting from the standard Debian kernel and see if there
> are any changes. If yes, the culprit is most likely the LinuxCNC
> kernel.
>
I got that fixed 2 weeks ago, the installer locked me to ipv6, and the 
nearest ipv6 connectivity is probably in Pittsburgh PA, 140 some miles 
north of me. The installer hasn't brains enough to try ipv4 when it 
can't find anything working in ipv6.

> Kind regards,
> Andrei


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#209126

On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 06:52:00AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> the installer locked me to ipv6, and the nearest ipv6 connectivity
> is probably in Pittsburgh PA, 140 some miles north of me. The
> installer hasn't brains enough to try ipv4 when it can't find
> anything working in ipv6.

My recollection was that none of that was ever established in any of
the threads you posted here, so that is a really weird thing to keep
stating. Did IPv6 use all your toilet paper and kick your dog or
something?

Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#209132

On Saturday 25 May 2019 07:33:01 am Andy Smith wrote:

> On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 06:52:00AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > the installer locked me to ipv6, and the nearest ipv6 connectivity
> > is probably in Pittsburgh PA, 140 some miles north of me. The
> > installer hasn't brains enough to try ipv4 when it can't find
> > anything working in ipv6.
>
> My recollection was that none of that was ever established in any of
> the threads you posted here, so that is a really weird thing to keep
> stating. Did IPv6 use all your toilet paper and kick your dog or
> something?
>
> Andy

You just pulled my trigger.

No Andy, it didn't drink my last beer (Murphy does that), or kill any 
kittens but it did totally disable ipv4. How? Simply by refusing to 
apply a route/gateway to the ipv4 settings we do manually. And depending 
on the phase of the moon, those of us on host file networks are forced 
to edit the /e/n/i/config files and immediately chattr +i them in order 
to protect them from N-M's incessant meddling, ditto for resolv.conf, 
which we have to make into a real file, and chattr +i it for the same 
reason.  For a while we could remove N-M on armhf-jessie but now its 
somehow linked to our choice of desktops so the only way is to rm it by 
hand, or chattr +i everything it touches. N-M at least has the common 
decency to not complain or go crazy when it finds itself locked out of 
its playpen. Unforch I can't say the same for hpfax, in the hplip 
package you get with cups.  Its crashed this machine 6 or 7 times by 
killing hid-common, leaving the only working button the reset button on 
the machines front panel. Somebody put a call to hpfax in the root 
crontab, and when it gets called with nothing to do it goes postal 
killing all input devices on the usb bus by killing hid-common.  A 
separate problem of course, one that hp needs to fix before buster goes 
live.

You folks with ipv6 all think we should all just switch and be done with 
it, but the nearest ipv6 connection to me is probably 140 miles north of 
here in Pittsburgh.  So we're stuck on ipv4. My router doesn't pass it, 
my isp supplied cable modem doesn't pass it and you folks should be 
aware, first and foremost, that ipv6 does NOT cover the planet yet. 10% 
of it maybe on a geographical basis.  The rest of us are stuck on ipv4 
and we are being punished because there's nothing we can do about it.

You all claim that N-M won't bother an interface defined as static. Thats 
an outright blatant lie, I've had it tear down working interfaces half a 
dozen times in the last month on two different stretch installs, one 
arm64 and one amd64 because I wasn't quick enough with the sudo chattr 
to lock a file I had just edited with the properly marked as static 
data. I took the time to ping yahoo.com, got a response and N-M tore it 
down before I could lock it.

Put a kill switch in that puppy. defaulted to off. And take a survey to 
see how many have turned it on a year from now. I'll be apologetic if 
its more than the 5% carrying their lappy to dunkin donuts.

/ipv6 rant.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#209200 — That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

Hello,

On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 11:25:26AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 25 May 2019 07:33:01 am Andy Smith wrote:
> > My recollection was that none of that was ever established in any of
> > the threads you posted here, so that is a really weird thing to keep
> > stating. Did IPv6 use all your toilet paper and kick your dog or
> > something?
> 
> You just pulled my trigger.
> 
> No Andy, it didn't drink my last beer (Murphy does that), or kill any 
> kittens but it did totally disable ipv4. How? Simply by refusing to 
> apply a route/gateway to the ipv4 settings we do manually.

Can you show the archive link to the email where it was established
that having IPv6 enabled in the kernel prevented your IPv4
configuration from being applied?

Otherwise that is a very strange thing to keep asserting.

> And depending on the phase of the moon, those of us on host file
> networks are forced to edit the /e/n/i/config files and
> immediately chattr +i them in order to protect them from N-M's
> incessant meddling, ditto for resolv.conf, which we have to make
> into a real file, and chattr +i it for the same reason.  For a
> while we could remove N-M on armhf-jessie but now its somehow
> linked to our choice of desktops so the only way is to rm it by
> hand, or chattr +i everything it touches. N-M at least has the
> common decency to not complain or go crazy when it finds itself
> locked out of its playpen. Unforch I can't say the same for hpfax,
> in the hplip package you get with cups.  Its crashed this machine
> 6 or 7 times by killing hid-common, leaving the only working
> button the reset button on the machines front panel. Somebody put
> a call to hpfax in the root crontab, and when it gets called with
> nothing to do it goes postal killing all input devices on the usb
> bus by killing hid-common.  A separate problem of course, one that
> hp needs to fix before buster goes live.

Unclear how any of the above is or could ever be related to IPv6.

> You folks with ipv6 all think we should all just switch and be done with 
> it,

Vast majority of Linux users already switched to having IPv6
enabled, because it has been enabled by default for years, and IPv6
addresses appear on every interface.

If you are finding bugs then it would be good to report them instead
of howling at the moon.

> You all claim that N-M won't bother an interface defined as static. Thats 
> an outright blatant lie,

I'm sure I may have said that somewhere although I don't think I've
said it to you. But also, it doesn't seem to have any relationship
to IPv6.

Again, I suggest if you find bugs in NetworkManager that you report
them, not invoke the IPv6 bogey man until and unless you're certain
that it is that dread creature which plagues you.

> Put a kill switch in that puppy. defaulted to off. And take a survey to 
> see how many have turned it on a year from now. I'll be apologetic if 
> its more than the 5% carrying their lappy to dunkin donuts.

Could you apologise right now then since IPv6 has already been
enabled for decades and the vast majority of users experience no
problem?

> /ipv6 rant.

Rants aren't so bad, it's when they are utterly clueless and devoid
of factual content one could tend to come off looking like an
absolute lunatic.

Hopefully though you aren't a lunatic and can point me to this exact
situation where the enablement of IPv6 in your kernel caused
something to break, cos then we can get some bugs fixed instead of
just spilling more performance art onto the interwebs.

Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#209203 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

On Sunday 26 May 2019 10:09:49 pm Andy Smith wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 11:25:26AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 25 May 2019 07:33:01 am Andy Smith wrote:
> > > My recollection was that none of that was ever established in any
> > > of the threads you posted here, so that is a really weird thing to
> > > keep stating. Did IPv6 use all your toilet paper and kick your dog
> > > or something?
> >
> > You just pulled my trigger.
> >
> > No Andy, it didn't drink my last beer (Murphy does that), or kill
> > any kittens but it did totally disable ipv4. How? Simply by refusing
> > to apply a route/gateway to the ipv4 settings we do manually.
>
> Can you show the archive link to the email where it was established
> that having IPv6 enabled in the kernel prevented your IPv4
> configuration from being applied?
>
> Otherwise that is a very strange thing to keep asserting.
>
> > And depending on the phase of the moon, those of us on host file
> > networks are forced to edit the /e/n/i/config files and
> > immediately chattr +i them in order to protect them from N-M's
> > incessant meddling, ditto for resolv.conf, which we have to make
> > into a real file, and chattr +i it for the same reason.  For a
> > while we could remove N-M on armhf-jessie but now its somehow
> > linked to our choice of desktops so the only way is to rm it by
> > hand, or chattr +i everything it touches. N-M at least has the
> > common decency to not complain or go crazy when it finds itself
> > locked out of its playpen. Unforch I can't say the same for hpfax,
> > in the hplip package you get with cups.  Its crashed this machine
> > 6 or 7 times by killing hid-common, leaving the only working
> > button the reset button on the machines front panel. Somebody put
> > a call to hpfax in the root crontab, and when it gets called with
> > nothing to do it goes postal killing all input devices on the usb
> > bus by killing hid-common.  A separate problem of course, one that
> > hp needs to fix before buster goes live.
>
> Unclear how any of the above is or could ever be related to IPv6.
>
> > You folks with ipv6 all think we should all just switch and be done
> > with it,
>
> Vast majority of Linux users already switched to having IPv6
> enabled, because it has been enabled by default for years, and IPv6
> addresses appear on every interface.
>
> If you are finding bugs then it would be good to report them instead
> of howling at the moon.
>
> > You all claim that N-M won't bother an interface defined as static.
> > Thats an outright blatant lie,
>
> I'm sure I may have said that somewhere although I don't think I've
> said it to you. But also, it doesn't seem to have any relationship
> to IPv6.
>
> Again, I suggest if you find bugs in NetworkManager that you report
> them, not invoke the IPv6 bogey man until and unless you're certain
> that it is that dread creature which plagues you.
>
> > Put a kill switch in that puppy. defaulted to off. And take a survey
> > to see how many have turned it on a year from now. I'll be
> > apologetic if its more than the 5% carrying their lappy to dunkin
> > donuts.
>
> Could you apologise right now then since IPv6 has already been
> enabled for decades and the vast majority of users experience no
> problem?
>
I don't think so. ipv6 I'm sure is nice where its available.  Where it is 
not available, its a pain in the ass because even if you set it up as a 
static ipv4, N-M will tear it down in 5 minutes or less. And N-M is a 
dependency because most have a dhcpd running, probably in the router by 
default.

You are determined to exterminate any and all users of a hosts file, 
staticly defined network. Its ideal for small home networks.

The SOB (N-M) ignores the word static in the stretch version, so I'm back 
to a decade ago when N-M was new. Doing my config file edits quickly, 
because when you save it, the next thing you'd better to is a root 
chattr +i to that file, then go on to nuking the /etc/resolv.conf link 
and make a real file that only has 2 lines, the first defining the 
nameservers address, the 2nd saying dnssearch hosts, nameserver.  Save 
it and weld it down with a root chattr +i so N-M can't screw with it. 

And since stretch, if theres even a hint of a sniff of ipv6 being setup, 
the net tools will NOT assign a route/gateway to the ipv4 config. So 
your hosts file entries all work, but ping yahoo.com. network 
unreachable.

/ipv6 rant.
>
> Rants aren't so bad, it's when they are utterly clueless and devoid
> of factual content one could tend to come off looking like an
> absolute lunatic.

The facts have been stated. If you choose to not believe them, that is 
your problem.

> Hopefully though you aren't a lunatic and can point me to this exact
> situation where the enablement of IPv6 in your kernel caused
> something to break, cos then we can get some bugs fixed instead of
> just spilling more performance art onto the interwebs.

I'd love to file bugs, but I only have one email address.  And nominally 
80 milliseconds after I enter it in an account form, "its already 
taken". So I can't file the bug without logging in, and I can't login 
because it heard of gheskett@shentel.net back in 2015 according o my 
records in FF. And the username I used then now contains an illegal 
character. I guess somebody changed the rules for usernames?

It is for sure, one way to cut down on the bug reports isn't it?

> Andy


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#209206 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

Hello,

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:41:36AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 26 May 2019 10:09:49 pm Andy Smith wrote:
> > On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 11:25:26AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > No Andy, it didn't drink my last beer (Murphy does that), or kill
> > > any kittens but it did totally disable ipv4. How? Simply by refusing
> > > to apply a route/gateway to the ipv4 settings we do manually.
> >
> > Can you show the archive link to the email where it was established
> > that having IPv6 enabled in the kernel prevented your IPv4
> > configuration from being applied?

Somehow you have failed to respond to this very simple request,
opting instead to just ramble on restating yourself.

There doesn't seem to be any point in interacting further.

It's a shame that you waste everyone's time with these delusions.
Not just people trying to help you but also those future searchers
who are having problems with the same software as you and are led on
a wild goose chase when you report that IPv6 is the root cause,
amidst pages and page of distraction, yet somehow never get around
to explaining how or why.

Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#209236 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

On Monday 27 May 2019 02:03:27 am Andy Smith wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:41:36AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 26 May 2019 10:09:49 pm Andy Smith wrote:
> > > On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 11:25:26AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > No Andy, it didn't drink my last beer (Murphy does that), or
> > > > kill any kittens but it did totally disable ipv4. How? Simply by
> > > > refusing to apply a route/gateway to the ipv4 settings we do
> > > > manually.
> > >
> > > Can you show the archive link to the email where it was
> > > established that having IPv6 enabled in the kernel prevented your
> > > IPv4 configuration from being applied?
>
> Somehow you have failed to respond to this very simple request,
> opting instead to just ramble on restating yourself.
>
> There doesn't seem to be any point in interacting further.
>
> It's a shame that you waste everyone's time with these delusions.
> Not just people trying to help you but also those future searchers
> who are having problems with the same software as you and are led on
> a wild goose chase when you report that IPv6 is the root cause,
> amidst pages and page of distraction, yet somehow never get around
> to explaining how or why.
>
> Andy

Because I haven't found the why yet, else I would gladly advise the list 
of my findings, all I have repeatedly observed is the effect, both on 
amd64 and on arm64. Also since jessie on the armhf, but that was 2 years 
back and I don't recall exactly what I did other than removing N-M and 
chattr +i the two files mentioned ad nausium already. My arm64's are all 
newer, and haven't seen a jessie install, but the spi driver isn't 
usable at data rates of 10 megabits, let alone the 40+ a pi3b is doing.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#209242 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

On 05/26/2019 11:03 PM, Andy Smith wrote:

> There doesn't seem to be any point in interacting further.

> Andy


Andy that's the most helpful thing you've said, you are trolling Gene a 
longtime Debian Linux User who is having problems adjusting to not 
having Debian Linux any longer, like so many others who are longtime 
Debian Users, so please don't troll.

Thanks,
-- 
Jimmy Johnson

14.2 - KDE - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 - Registered Linux User #380263

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#209320 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

Hello,

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 10:13:12AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> On 05/26/2019 11:03 PM, Andy Smith wrote:
> >There doesn't seem to be any point in interacting further.
> 
> Andy that's the most helpful thing you've said,

I guess you missed the response where the very first thing I did was
to actually show Gene how to disable IPv6, even though I predicted
it wasn't his issue, and then he later agreed (in a response to
another poster) that it wasn't his issue.

> you are trolling Gene a longtime Debian Linux User who is having
> problems adjusting to not having Debian Linux any longer, like so
> many others who are longtime Debian Users,

I'm having trouble making sense of what you're saying there, but
what I am doing is taking issue with Gene's insistence that IPv6 is
responsible for every problem he encounters.

> so please don't troll.

Is your definition of trolling "asking someone to back up their
statements"? If not then I'd be interested to know what it is that
I'm doing that you think is trolling.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#209330 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

On 05/28/2019 08:44 AM, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 10:13:12AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
>> On 05/26/2019 11:03 PM, Andy Smith wrote:
>>> There doesn't seem to be any point in interacting further.
>>
>> Andy that's the most helpful thing you've said,
> 
> I guess you missed the response where the very first thing I did was
> to actually show Gene how to disable IPv6, even though I predicted
> it wasn't his issue, and then he later agreed (in a response to
> another poster) that it wasn't his issue.


You predicted it wasn't his issue, you knew that for sure, like you know 
what the issue is but your not saying. That's not a question, I'm being 
a sounding board.

>> you are trolling Gene a longtime Debian Linux User who is having
>> problems adjusting to not having Debian Linux any longer, like so
>> many others who are longtime Debian Users,
> 
> I'm having trouble making sense of what you're saying there, but
> what I am doing is taking issue with Gene's insistence that IPv6 is
> responsible for every problem he encounters.


IPv6 just like systemd, kernel modules, programs with added code, etc. 
and I really can go on, but the point is the mere mention of somethings 
start arguments and trolling since day one.

>> so please don't troll.
> 
> Is your definition of trolling "asking someone to back up their
> statements"?


Yes, often it is trolling, it's a deliberate act of discrediting a 
poster who may often be expressing his personal experience working with 
technology.

If not then I'd be interested to know what it is that
> I'm doing that you think is trolling.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andy


So please don't troll.
-- 
Jimmy Johnson

14.2 - KDE - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9 - Registered Linux User #380263

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#209343 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

Hi Jimmy,

On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 10:15:28AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> >On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 10:13:12AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> >>On 05/26/2019 11:03 PM, Andy Smith wrote:
> >>>There doesn't seem to be any point in interacting further.
> >>
> >>Andy that's the most helpful thing you've said,
> >
> >I guess you missed the response where the very first thing I did was
> >to actually show Gene how to disable IPv6, even though I predicted
> >it wasn't his issue, and then he later agreed (in a response to
> >another poster) that it wasn't his issue.
> 
> You predicted it wasn't his issue, you knew that for sure, like you know
> what the issue is but your not saying. That's not a question, I'm being a
> sounding board.

I've no idea what Gene's issue is because he never gives enough
information to work it out, and you can try to extract that from him
but all you get is rambling. However, his direct question (how to
disable IPv6) was very simple to answer (so I did), and seeing him
state in multiple places that IPv6 was the root cause of his
problems I thought it was worth trying to get to the bottom of that.

I was wrong about that second bit: in general it is worth it, but
Gene doesn't want to, and you can't debug without the user's
consent.

Once again I think it is unfair of you to say that me giving up is
the most helpful thing I've said, when I did actually answer his
direct question.

> IPv6 just like systemd, kernel modules, programs with added code, etc. and I
> really can go on, but the point is the mere mention of somethings start
> arguments and trolling since day one.

So am I to understand that you think it is fine that someone posts
misinformation for reasons known only to themselves and should never
be asked to justify it?

I'm not interested in some rambling war about X vs Y, I'm interested
in seeing a concrete issue and fixing it.

If someone wants to say "XYZ software sucks" or even, "XYZ was made
by the Communists/NSA/aliens to destroy Linux" then I'm not going to
bite, because that's not something you can ever disprove to someone.
However, when someone makes direct claims like

    "IPv6 being enabled in my kernel caused me to be unable to
    configure IPv4, and also broke my XYZ software's configure, and,
    and, and, …"

then that is something that can and should be investigated.

As you've seen, once it's been shown that someone only wants to post
emotional rambling I give up on them, so it's never going to go any
further. However, you are prolonging it by popping up to throw
around accusations of being a troll…

> >>so please don't troll.
> >
> >Is your definition of trolling "asking someone to back up their
> >statements"?
> 
> Yes, often it is trolling, it's a deliberate act of discrediting a poster
> who may often be expressing his personal experience working with technology.

Wow. I didn't realise that Gene was being awarded a participation
medal and being encouraged to just fill the list with creative
writing. It really doesn't seem like that would scale if encouraged
for every poster.

The problem isn't that Gene has difficulties. We all have
difficulties. The problem is that Gene invents a root cause,
declares the problem solved, won't accept any attempt to
prove/disprove his theory, and then just restates his opinion as
fact over again in other threads.

I don't think it helps Gene to encourage that. It certainly won't help
anyone else searching for bugs with the same software.

> So please don't troll.

I don't accept this as a definition of trolling, but you can rest
easy that you won't see any more of it from me in response to Gene.
Anyone else who is actively avoiding answering direct questions or
carrying out simple diagnosis when being helped though, is going to
get asked why. The first few times could be miscommunication or I
could always have misunderstood, but with some people a pattern does
quickly emerge.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#209207 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:41:36AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

[...]

> I don't think so. ipv6 I'm sure is nice where its available.  Where it is 
> not available, its a pain in the ass because even if you set it up as a 
> static ipv4, N-M will tear it down in 5 minutes or less. And N-M is a 
> dependency because most have a dhcpd running, probably in the router by 
> default.
> 
> You are determined to exterminate any and all users of a hosts file, 
> staticly defined network. Its ideal for small home networks.

[...]

I've been following this monster thread with one eye (sorry, not enough
bandwidth at the moment) and I think, Gene, you're barking up the wrong
tree.

IPv6 can coexist nicely with IPv4 (this is by design). My work laptop
(which is my only work box) has both stacks up and running. Most places
I'm at don't even know IPv6 exist. My ISP at home likewise. But my home
router does, so I can magically "ping6" the more intelligent hosts
at home, without having had to configure anything.

If Network Manager is giving you grief, please go bark up /that/ tree
(I can't say much about N-M, because I banned it from my boxes about
ten years ago: I was at a customer's, in his LAN via an Ethernet, when
N-M suddenly saw a WLAN out there, out the window and said "oh, let's
go online over there" and obliterated my network setting in favor of
some seedy captive portal. That was when I decided that N-M and me,
we aren't made for each other).

Cheers
-- t

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#209209 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

On 2019-05-27, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
>
>
> If Network Manager is giving you grief, please go bark up /that/ tree
> (I can't say much about N-M, because I banned it from my boxes about
> ten years ago: I was at a customer's, in his LAN via an Ethernet, when
> N-M suddenly saw a WLAN out there, out the window and said "oh, let's
> go online over there" and obliterated my network setting in favor of
> some seedy captive portal. That was when I decided that N-M and me,
> we aren't made for each other).
>

This is a grave bug. I suppose we can assume from your description that
the seedier the wifi portal, the more likely it is to spontaneously
occur, despite any and all user configuration or intervention.

Would it be possible to post the link to your bug report? To your
knowledge has the bug been fixed since you reported it a decade ago?  As
many users here including myself rely on the N-M app, I'm sure we would
all be interested in knowing where we stand. 

-- 
“Decisions are never really made – at best they manage to emerge, from a chaos
of peeves, whims, hallucinations and all around assholery.” – Thomas Pynchon

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#209212 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 07:46:00AM -0000, Curt wrote:
> On 2019-05-27, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If Network Manager is giving you grief, please go bark up /that/ tree

[...]

> This is a grave bug. I suppose we can assume from your description that
> the seedier the wifi portal, the more likely it is to spontaneously
> occur, despite any and all user configuration or intervention.
> 
> Would it be possible to post the link to your bug report? To your
> knowledge has the bug been fixed since you reported it a decade ago?  As
> many users here including myself rely on the N-M app, I'm sure we would
> all be interested in knowing where we stand. 

I'd assume this doesn't happen anymore: the density of open (but captive)
WiFi portals is so high these days that no one would use N-M these days
anymore.

I didn't report that bug at the time.

Happy ifupdown user since then :-)

Cheers
-- tomás

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#209213 — Re: That time IPv6 farted in Gene's church (Was Re: forcedeth?)

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Quoting Curt (2019-05-27 09:46:00)
> On 2019-05-27, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
> > If Network Manager is giving you grief, please go bark up /that/ 
> > tree (I can't say much about N-M, because I banned it from my boxes 
> > about ten years ago: I was at a customer's, in his LAN via an 
> > Ethernet, when N-M suddenly saw a WLAN out there, out the window and 
> > said "oh, let's go online over there" and obliterated my network 
> > setting in favor of some seedy captive portal. That was when I 
> > decided that N-M and me, we aren't made for each other).
> >
> 
> This is a grave bug. I suppose we can assume from your description 
> that the seedier the wifi portal, the more likely it is to 
> spontaneously occur, despite any and all user configuration or 
> intervention.
> 
> Would it be possible to post the link to your bug report? To your 
> knowledge has the bug been fixed since you reported it a decade ago?  
> As many users here including myself rely on the N-M app, I'm sure we 
> would all be interested in knowing where we stand.

I fully agree, this is a quite scary and severe bug in network-manager 
that I want to inspect closer as Debian Developer.

Please do share information about where it was reported to I can follow 
up on it.  I sincerely hope that it has not gone unfixed through these 
many years!!!


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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