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No Wifi Option

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  No Wifi Option Terrill Wallace <terrilljwallacejr@gmail.com> - 2019-05-04 21:10 +0200
    Re: No Wifi Option Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> - 2019-05-04 21:40 +0200
    Re: No Wifi Option Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-04 21:40 +0200
      Re: No Wifi Option Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-04 22:00 +0200
        Re: No Wifi Option Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-05-05 01:10 +0200
      Re: No Wifi Option Terrill Wallace <terrilljwallacejr@gmail.com> - 2019-05-04 22:00 +0200
        Re: No Wifi Option Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-05-04 22:30 +0200
        Re: No Wifi Option rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-05-05 17:10 +0200
          Re: No Wifi Option rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-05-05 17:10 +0200
            Re: No Wifi Option Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-05 17:50 +0200
          Re: No Wifi Option Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-05-05 17:50 +0200
            Re: No Wifi Option rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-05-05 18:10 +0200
              Re: No Wifi Option Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-05-05 18:20 +0200
      Re: No Wifi Option Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-05-04 22:10 +0200
        Re: No Wifi Option Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-04 22:30 +0200
          Re: No Wifi Option Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-05-05 00:40 +0200
          Re: No Wifi Option Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-05-05 12:10 +0200
            Re: No Wifi Option Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-05 12:50 +0200
    Re: No Wifi Option Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-05-04 22:20 +0200

#208142 — No Wifi Option

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Hello Debian,

I am trying to install Debian 9 on my desktop but within the install I am
not given a Wifi Option. Can you please help me with this issue?

Thank you,

These are my specs:
HP Pavilion Gaming Desktop 690-0010
AMD Ryzen 3 2200G Processor
8 GD DDR4-2666 SDRAM memory
1 TB hard drive
AMD Radeon RX 550 graphics card with 4 GB GDDR5 dedicated memory
DVD-Writer

Wireless LAN 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac (1x1) and Bluetooth 4.2 M.2

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#208146

On 5/4/19 2:44 PM, Terrill Wallace wrote:
> Hello Debian,
>
> I am trying to install Debian 9 on my desktop but within the install I 
> am not given a Wifi Option. Can you please help me with this issue?
>
> Thank you,
>
> These are my specs:
> HP Pavilion Gaming Desktop 690-0010
> AMD Ryzen 3 2200G Processor
> 8 GD DDR4-2666 SDRAM memory
> 1 TB hard drive
> AMD Radeon RX 550 graphics card with 4 GB GDDR5 dedicated memory
> DVD-Writer
>
> Wireless LAN 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac (1x1) and Bluetooth 4.2 M.2

Notice the one thing you didn't list in your specs: the chipset of your 
wireless adapter.

-- 
Carl Fink                           nitpicking@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com.  Reviews!  Observations!

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#208149

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Hi Terrill,

Quoting Terrill Wallace (2019-05-04 20:44:24)
> I am trying to install Debian 9 on my desktop but within the install I 
> am not given a Wifi Option. Can you please help me with this issue?

Most likely the wifi device built into your computer requires non-free 
firmware, which is not included with Debian.

Best option (from a Free Software standpoint) is to buy a wifi dongle 
which works with Free Software.  See e.g. https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi

Alternatively (if you don't mind the legal implications that comes with 
including non-free formware to your installation) look for the 
unofficial debian-installer image which includes non-free firmware.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#208152

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Quoting Terrill Wallace (2019-05-04 21:39:03)
> I'm just gonna quit and give up

Yes, that is indeed the easiest approach. Sorry I didn't think to 
suggest that.

I suggest to wrap the laptop in a transparent plastic bag when trashing 
it, to at least offer the chance of it getting a second life in the 
hands of someone slightly more patient :-)


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#208164

On Sat 04 May 2019 at 21:58:57 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> Quoting Terrill Wallace (2019-05-04 21:39:03)
> > I'm just gonna quit and give up
> 
> Yes, that is indeed the easiest approach. Sorry I didn't think to 
> suggest that.
> 
> I suggest to wrap the laptop in a transparent plastic bag when trashing 
> it, to at least offer the chance of it getting a second life in the 
> hands of someone slightly more patient :-)

Patience isn't the issue. One installer (official) is given prominence.
The other (unofficial) is hidden behind the curtains. No wonder that
newcomers (remember them?) are confused and give up.

BTW, documentation for what goes in the unofficial section of the website
and what its purpose is not exactly easy to find.

-- 
Brian.

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#208153

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I'm just gonna quit and give up

On Sat, May 4, 2019, 2:32 PM Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> wrote:

> Hi Terrill,
>
> Quoting Terrill Wallace (2019-05-04 20:44:24)
> > I am trying to install Debian 9 on my desktop but within the install I
> > am not given a Wifi Option. Can you please help me with this issue?
>
> Most likely the wifi device built into your computer requires non-free
> firmware, which is not included with Debian.
>
> Best option (from a Free Software standpoint) is to buy a wifi dongle
> which works with Free Software.  See e.g. https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi
>
> Alternatively (if you don't mind the legal implications that comes with
> including non-free formware to your installation) look for the
> unofficial debian-installer image which includes non-free firmware.
>
>
>  - Jonas
>
> --
>  * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
>  * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>
>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
>

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#208159

On 05/04/2019 02:39 PM, Terrill Wallace wrote:
> I'm just gonna quit and give up

*NOT* only is that answer *WRONG*!!!

It is worst possible ..... !

There are MULTIPLE Debian solutions.
Some FOSS. Some not.
What do *YOU* require?

Other responses give hints.

THImK!

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#208210

On Saturday, May 04, 2019 03:39:03 PM Terrill Wallace wrote:
> I'm just gonna quit and give up

I hate to hear that -- I might ask a few questions and suggest some 
alternatives:

   * Are you already a Linux user, or are you a non-Linux user considering a 
move to Linux -- I'd especially hate to lose a potential Linux convert?

   * I hear that some other Linux distributions include more "non-free" 
software by default -- you might try one of those -- I'd be tempted to try a 
*buntu" -- I'd prefer Kubuntu because I like KDE, but I don't know if it is as 
up-to-date as the latest Ubuntu.

   * Where do you live -- if you live somewhere fairly close to east central 
Pa., I might be able to help you in person, if you live somewhere else, there 
may be others wiling and able to help you in person.  Perhaps you are near a 
LUG (Linux User Group) that might help you in person (at a meeting).

   If you post a general location (country, region of country (in the US, 
state and region of state to start with) someone may chime in with an offer of 
help.

In any case, good luck!

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#208211

PS: I happen to have a wired (RJ-45) Internet connection.  If I had the 
problem, I'd be tempted to install Debian using the wired connection, then 
work on configuring the wireless connection.  (On the other hand, I suspect an 
*buntu installation might work fine over WiFi.)

On Sunday, May 05, 2019 11:06:06 AM rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, May 04, 2019 03:39:03 PM Terrill Wallace wrote:
> > I'm just gonna quit and give up
> 
> I hate to hear that -- I might ask a few questions and suggest some
> alternatives:
> 
>    * Are you already a Linux user, or are you a non-Linux user considering
> a move to Linux -- I'd especially hate to lose a potential Linux convert?
> 
>    * I hear that some other Linux distributions include more "non-free"
> software by default -- you might try one of those -- I'd be tempted to try
> a *buntu" -- I'd prefer Kubuntu because I like KDE, but I don't know if it
> is as up-to-date as the latest Ubuntu.
> 
>    * Where do you live -- if you live somewhere fairly close to east
> central Pa., I might be able to help you in person, if you live somewhere
> else, there may be others wiling and able to help you in person.  Perhaps
> you are near a LUG (Linux User Group) that might help you in person (at a
> meeting).
> 
>    If you post a general location (country, region of country (in the US,
> state and region of state to start with) someone may chime in with an offer
> of help.
> 
> In any case, good luck!

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#208213

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Quoting rhkramer@gmail.com (2019-05-05 17:08:49)
> PS: I happen to have a wired (RJ-45) Internet connection.  If I had 
> the problem, I'd be tempted to install Debian using the wired 
> connection, then work on configuring the wireless connection.  (On the 
> other hand, I suspect an *buntu installation might work fine over 
> WiFi.)

Debian+nonfree generally works fine over wifi as well.

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#208212

On 2019-05-05, rhkramer@gmail.com <rhkramer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, May 04, 2019 03:39:03 PM Terrill Wallace wrote:
>> I'm just gonna quit and give up
>
> I hate to hear that -- I might ask a few questions and suggest some 
> alternatives:

The dude must be leery after calculating the cost-benefit ratio of
lawyering up to handle the intricate "legal implications" of getting his
wifi up mentioned in the thread.

Of course, anyone who quits *and* gives up simultaneously is trying to
make some sort of point rather than solve some kind of problem.

Out.

-- 
The boys at first were very polite about my medals and asked me what I had done
to get them. I showed them the papers, which were written in very beautiful
language and full of fratellanza and abnegazione, but which really said, with
the adjectives removed, that I had been given the medals because I was 
an American. - "Another Country"

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#208217

On Sunday, May 05, 2019 11:42:36 AM Curt wrote:
> Of course, anyone who quits *and* gives up simultaneously is trying to
> make some sort of point rather than solve some kind of problem.

Hmm, I have trouble relating to that.  I can imagine saying that I "quit and 
give up" as a redundancy, and my intent (unstated intent) would be to do 
something else entirely to accomplish my goal (stick with Windows, buy a new 
laptop, stick to a desktop, hire someone to set up Linux on my laptop, hire 
someone to browse the web, ... ???).

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#208219

On 2019-05-05, rhkramer@gmail.com <rhkramer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, May 05, 2019 11:42:36 AM Curt wrote:
>> Of course, anyone who quits *and* gives up simultaneously is trying to
>> make some sort of point rather than solve some kind of problem.
>
> Hmm, I have trouble relating to that.  I can imagine saying that I "quit and 
> give up" as a redundancy, and my intent (unstated intent) would be to do 
> something else entirely to accomplish my goal (stick with Windows, buy a new 
> laptop, stick to a desktop, hire someone to set up Linux on my laptop, hire 
> someone to browse the web, ... ???).
>

I found the phrase revealed a certain childish petulance incongruent
with the application of the unwavering scientific values that are the
hallmark of this technical forum.
 
;-)


-- 
The boys at first were very polite about my medals and asked me what I had done
to get them. I showed them the papers, which were written in very beautiful
language and full of fratellanza and abnegazione, but which really said, with
the adjectives removed, that I had been given the medals because I was 
an American. - "Another Country"

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#208155

On Sat 04 May 2019 at 21:32:19 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> Hi Terrill,
> 
> Quoting Terrill Wallace (2019-05-04 20:44:24)
> > I am trying to install Debian 9 on my desktop but within the install I 
> > am not given a Wifi Option. Can you please help me with this issue?
> 
> Most likely the wifi device built into your computer requires non-free 
> firmware, which is not included with Debian.

Quite possibly.
 
> Best option (from a Free Software standpoint) is to buy a wifi dongle 
> which works with Free Software.  See e.g. https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi

Indeed.
 
> Alternatively (if you don't mind the legal implications that comes with 
> including non-free formware to your installation) look for the 
> unofficial debian-installer image which includes non-free firmware.

Are there legal implications with a user installing non-free software
as long as they follow the conditions?

Debian, of course, decided it cannot distribute such software. That is
why we have the pragmatic nonsense of having official and unofficial
installers.

-- 
Brian.

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#208158

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Quoting Brian (2019-05-04 22:01:07)
> On Sat 04 May 2019 at 21:32:19 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> 
> > Hi Terrill,
> > 
> > Quoting Terrill Wallace (2019-05-04 20:44:24)
> > > I am trying to install Debian 9 on my desktop but within the install I 
> > > am not given a Wifi Option. Can you please help me with this issue?
> > 
> > Most likely the wifi device built into your computer requires non-free 
> > firmware, which is not included with Debian.
> 
> Quite possibly.
>  
> > Best option (from a Free Software standpoint) is to buy a wifi dongle 
> > which works with Free Software.  See e.g. https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi
> 
> Indeed.
>  
> > Alternatively (if you don't mind the legal implications that comes with 
> > including non-free formware to your installation) look for the 
> > unofficial debian-installer image which includes non-free firmware.
> 
> Are there legal implications with a user installing non-free software
> as long as they follow the conditions?

I am not a lawyer - please have your own lawyer consult you regarding 
the licensing terms involved - i.e. possibly some of these: 
https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/


> Debian, of course, decided it cannot distribute such software. That is
> why we have the pragmatic nonsense of having official and unofficial
> installers.

It seems you are mistaken: Debian can and evidently do distribute such 
software - just not as part of a Free Software distribution.¹

Feel free to label it nonsense if that makes you happy.  Cheers!


 - Jonas


¹ exactly _because_ Debian distributes such software the GNU project 
classifies Debian as not-really Free Software project.

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#208163

On Sat 04 May 2019 at 22:19:43 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

> Quoting Brian (2019-05-04 22:01:07)
> > On Sat 04 May 2019 at 21:32:19 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Terrill,
> > > 
> > > Quoting Terrill Wallace (2019-05-04 20:44:24)
> > > > I am trying to install Debian 9 on my desktop but within the install I 
> > > > am not given a Wifi Option. Can you please help me with this issue?
> > > 
> > > Most likely the wifi device built into your computer requires non-free 
> > > firmware, which is not included with Debian.
> > 
> > Quite possibly.
> >  
> > > Best option (from a Free Software standpoint) is to buy a wifi dongle 
> > > which works with Free Software.  See e.g. https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi
> > 
> > Indeed.
> >  
> > > Alternatively (if you don't mind the legal implications that comes with 
> > > including non-free formware to your installation) look for the 
> > > unofficial debian-installer image which includes non-free firmware.
> > 
> > Are there legal implications with a user installing non-free software
> > as long as they follow the conditions?
> 
> I am not a lawyer - please have your own lawyer consult you regarding 
> the licensing terms involved - i.e. possibly some of these: 
> https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/
 
A nice side-step of *a user* installing non-free software. Nobody needs
a lawyer to read and understand the conditions under which he got it.
And, of course, there is a considerable difference between what an
individual does and how an organisation behaves.
 
> > Debian, of course, decided it cannot distribute such software. That is
> > why we have the pragmatic nonsense of having official and unofficial
> > installers.
> 
> It seems you are mistaken: Debian can and evidently do distribute such 
> software - just not as part of a Free Software distribution.¹
> 
> Feel free to label it nonsense if that makes you happy.  Cheers!

From

https://www.debian.org/social_contract

   Debian will remain 100% free

   We will never make the system require the use of a non-free component. 

But you maintain "we do distribute such software". So the unofficial
debian-installer is distributed as a less than 100% free part of Debian?
Just like the non-free archive, I suppose?

Confused.

-- 
Brian.

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#208191

On 2019-05-04, Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> wrote:

>> Are there legal implications with a user installing non-free software
>> as long as they follow the conditions?
>
> I am not a lawyer - please have your own lawyer consult you regarding
> the licensing terms involved - i.e. possibly some of these:
> https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/
>

Implying that a Debian user, in downloading a binary blob from Debian's
non-free repositories in order to get his wifi up and running, might in
doing so somehow fall foul of the law is FUD.

-- 
The boys at first were very polite about my medals and asked me what I had done
to get them. I showed them the papers, which were written in very beautiful
language and full of fratellanza and abnegazione, but which really said, with
the adjectives removed, that I had been given the medals because I was 
an American. - "Another Country"

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#208197

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Quoting Curt (2019-05-05 12:00:15)
> On 2019-05-04, Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> wrote:
> 
> >> Are there legal implications with a user installing non-free 
> >> software as long as they follow the conditions?
> >
> > I am not a lawyer - please have your own lawyer consult you 
> > regarding the licensing terms involved - i.e. possibly some of 
> > these: 
> > https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/non-free/f/firmware-nonfree/
> >
> 
> Implying that a Debian user, in downloading a binary blob from Debian's
> non-free repositories in order to get his wifi up and running, might in
> doing so somehow fall foul of the law is FUD.

Must be a great place you are living.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#208156

On 05/04/2019 01:44 PM, Terrill Wallace wrote:
> Hello Debian,
> 
> I am trying to install Debian 9 on my desktop but within the install I 
> am not given a Wifi Option. Can you please help me with this issue?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> These are my specs:
> HP Pavilion Gaming Desktop 690-0010
> AMD Ryzen 3 2200G Processor
> 8 GD DDR4-2666 SDRAM memory
> 1 TB hard drive
> AMD Radeon RX 550 graphics card with 4 GB GDDR5 dedicated memory
> DVD-Writer
> 
> Wireless LAN 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac (1x1) and Bluetooth 4.2 M.2
   *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*

I am *not* familiar with any HP product.
A _superficial_ web search suggests that WiFi may be supplied by various 
on-board options or plugin cards.

What is providing WiFi on your specific hardware?
{ LAN 802.11 is the specification which it meets. NOT what it *is* ;/}
HTH

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