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Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

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  Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-04-24 19:40 +0200
    Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using  --no-install-recommends ;) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2019-04-24 20:20 +0200
      Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends  ;) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-04-24 21:40 +0200
        Progress - was [Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using  --no-install-recommends ;)] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-04-24 22:30 +0200
    Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends  ;) Georgios <gpdsbe+debian@mailbox.org> - 2019-04-24 20:20 +0200
      Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends  ;) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-04-24 20:50 +0200
    Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends  ;) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2019-04-24 21:40 +0200
    Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends  ;) mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-04-24 21:50 +0200
      Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends  ;) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-04-24 22:30 +0200
    Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using  --no-install-recommends ;) Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2019-04-25 03:20 +0200
      Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends  ;) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-04-25 05:10 +0200
        Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends  ;) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-04-25 07:30 +0200
          iwd and DNS (was: Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using  --no-install-recommends ;)) Erik Josefsson <erik.hjalmar.josefsson@gmail.com> - 2019-04-25 11:40 +0200
            Re: iwd and DNS (was: Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using  --no-install-recommends ;)) mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-04-25 12:00 +0200
            Re: iwd and DNS (was: Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-04-25 12:20 +0200
            Re: iwd and DNS (was: Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using  --no-install-recommends ;)) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-04-25 17:50 +0200
    Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-04-26 11:30 +0200
      Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends  ;) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2019-04-26 14:20 +0200
        Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-04-26 15:10 +0200

#207826 — Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
    to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
    default installer}

My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a 
minimal MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended 
packages clash with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending packages 
after the fact is unaesthetic.

My test machine has both a default install from DVD 1 and my minimalist 
install. I had done a standard install without specifying any GUI or 
extra packages.

My base setup was installed by doing
   apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-mate-desktop
   apt-get install pluma gparted synaptic

All it lacks is internet connectivity.
I have a WiFi hotspot from T-mobile which I effectively use as a modem 
(WiFi is intentionally disabled). On the standard install it appears 
eth2 on Network Manager Applet.

I used Synaptic to install network-manager-gnome
The apparent problem is that connecting the hotspot does dot trigger the 
"connecting" icon.

How do I determine what else I need to install?
[Recall point #2 in my first paragraph ;]
TIA

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#207827 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 12:36:29 -0500
Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>     to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>     default installer}
> 
> My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a 
> minimal MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended 
> packages clash with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending
> packages after the fact is unaesthetic.
> 
> My test machine has both a default install from DVD 1 and my
> minimalist install. I had done a standard install without specifying
> any GUI or extra packages.
> 
> My base setup was installed by doing
>    apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-mate-desktop
>    apt-get install pluma gparted synaptic
> 
> All it lacks is internet connectivity.
> I have a WiFi hotspot from T-mobile which I effectively use as a
> modem (WiFi is intentionally disabled). On the standard install it
> appears eth2 on Network Manager Applet.
> 
> I used Synaptic to install network-manager-gnome
> The apparent problem is that connecting the hotspot does dot trigger
> the "connecting" icon.
> 
> How do I determine what else I need to install?
> [Recall point #2 in my first paragraph ;]
> TIA
> 
> 

Difficult to say without knowing what you don't have. Can you specify
an 'automatic' connection with Network Manager? If not, you probably
need dhcpcd. NM gains abilities according to what helper programs are
available.

-- 
Joe

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#207832 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

On 04/24/2019 01:10 PM, Joe wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 12:36:29 -0500
> Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> 
>> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
>> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
>> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>>      to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>>      default installer}
>>
>> My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a
>> minimal MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended
>> packages clash with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending
>> packages after the fact is unaesthetic.
>>
>> My test machine has both a default install from DVD 1 and my
>> minimalist install. I had done a standard install without specifying
>> any GUI or extra packages.
>>
>> My base setup was installed by doing
>>     apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-mate-desktop
>>     apt-get install pluma gparted synaptic
>>
>> All it lacks is internet connectivity.
>> I have a WiFi hotspot from T-mobile which I effectively use as a
>> modem (WiFi is intentionally disabled). On the standard install it
>> appears eth2 on Network Manager Applet.
>>
>> I used Synaptic to install network-manager-gnome
>> The apparent problem is that connecting the hotspot does dot trigger
>> the "connecting" icon.
>>
>> How do I determine what else I need to install?
>> [Recall point #2 in my first paragraph ;]
>> TIA
>>
>>
> 
> Difficult to say without knowing what you don't have.

Agreed <chuckle>

> Can you specify an 'automatic' connection with Network Manager?

I don't know yet. I've just brought up 4 URLs that the wiki says I 
should read. I had expected the icon for Network Manager Applet to 
appear on MATE's Panel. It does not.

> If not, you probably need dhcpcd.

That's not my problem. It is not present on install DVD 1.
Also on the full install I have on the same machine none of the dhcpcd 
modules listed by Synaptic are installed.

> NM gains abilities according to what helper programs are
> available.
> 

I have some reading to do.
Thank you.

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#207834 — Progress - was [Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)]

On 04/24/2019 02:31 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 04/24/2019 01:10 PM, Joe wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 12:36:29 -0500
>> Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>>[snip]
>>> My base setup was installed by doing
>>>     apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-mate-desktop
>>>     apt-get install pluma gparted synaptic
>>>
>>> All it lacks is internet connectivity.
>>> I have a WiFi hotspot from T-mobile which I effectively use as a
>>> modem (WiFi is intentionally disabled). On the standard install it
>>> appears eth2 on Network Manager Applet.
>>>
>>> I used Synaptic to install network-manager-gnome
>>> The apparent problem is that connecting the hotspot does dot trigger
>>> the "connecting" icon.

It works now ;/
I suspect the problem was not having logged-out/logged-in after 
installing network-manager-gnome.

>>>
>>> How do I determine what else I need to install?
>>> [Recall point #2 in my first paragraph ;]
>>> TIA
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Difficult to say without knowing what you don't have.
> 
> Agreed <chuckle>
> 
>> Can you specify an 'automatic' connection with Network Manager?
> 
> I don't know yet. I've just brought up 4 URLs that the wiki says I 
> should read. I had expected the icon for Network Manager Applet to 
> appear on MATE's Panel. It does not.
> 
>> If not, you probably need dhcpcd.
> 
> That's not my problem. It is not present on install DVD 1.
> Also on the full install I have on the same machine none of the dhcpcd 
> modules listed by Synaptic are installed.
> 
>> NM gains abilities according to what helper programs are
>> available.
>>
> 
> I have some reading to do.

The reading clued me in ;}

> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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#207828 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

My minimal install include just installing standard system utilities.
I build my system after that without the use of --no-install-recommends.
Its better to install recommended packages for full functionality of the
installed packages.(Just my opinion)

ps. Im using xfce and i usually pick the packages i need.

ps2.Find your network hardware and see if it needs firmware installed.

Check you
On 4/24/19 8:36 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>    to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>    default installer}
> 
> My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a
> minimal MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended
> packages clash with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending packages
> after the fact is unaesthetic.
> 
> My test machine has both a default install from DVD 1 and my minimalist
> install. I had done a standard install without specifying any GUI or
> extra packages.
> 
> My base setup was installed by doing
>   apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-mate-desktop
>   apt-get install pluma gparted synaptic
> 
> All it lacks is internet connectivity.
> I have a WiFi hotspot from T-mobile which I effectively use as a modem
> (WiFi is intentionally disabled). On the standard install it appears
> eth2 on Network Manager Applet.
> 
> I used Synaptic to install network-manager-gnome
> The apparent problem is that connecting the hotspot does dot trigger the
> "connecting" icon.
> 
> How do I determine what else I need to install?
> [Recall point #2 in my first paragraph ;]
> TIA
> 
> 

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#207830 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

On 04/24/2019 12:54 PM, Georgios wrote:
> My minimal install include just installing standard system utilities.

I believe I accomplished that.

> I build my system after that without the use of --no-install-recommends.
> Its better to install recommended packages for full functionality of the
> installed packages.(Just my opinion)

No major disagreement there. However, quoting myself:
>>> fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>>> to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>>> default installer}

My typical install is to accept everything. But this particular install 
is explicitly for investigating the other end of the spectrum. In the 
past I have done as many as a dozen full installs to investigate 
parameters of current interest.
I am retired, one of my hobbies might be said to be installing Debian ;}

> 
> ps. Im using xfce and i usually pick the packages i need.

I'm intentionally being a little more extreme.

> 
> ps2.Find your network hardware and see if it needs firmware installed.

I know it does not require a proprietary driver.
It is a USB device compatible with both Windows and Debian. My 
experience is that Debian initially sees it as a "disk" and then the 
software handling general USB devices downloads "something" from the 
device. After that it "just works" ;/

> 
> Check you
> On 4/24/19 8:36 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
>> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
>> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>>     to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>>     default installer}
>>
>> My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a
>> minimal MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended
>> packages clash with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending packages
>> after the fact is unaesthetic.
>>
>> My test machine has both a default install from DVD 1 and my minimalist
>> install. I had done a standard install without specifying any GUI or
>> extra packages.
>>
>> My base setup was installed by doing
>>    apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-mate-desktop
>>    apt-get install pluma gparted synaptic
>>
>> All it lacks is internet connectivity.
>> I have a WiFi hotspot from T-mobile which I effectively use as a modem
>> (WiFi is intentionally disabled). On the standard install it appears
>> eth2 on Network Manager Applet.
>>
>> I used Synaptic to install network-manager-gnome
>> The apparent problem is that connecting the hotspot does dot trigger the
>> "connecting" icon.
>>
>> How do I determine what else I need to install?
>> [Recall point #2 in my first paragraph ;]
>> TIA
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 

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#207831 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

On Wed 24 Apr 2019 at 12:36:29 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal

Not at all. There has to be an objective, a goal. For example, a thin
client with only 1Gb of space which is intended to perform a particular
set of tasks. A small installation is, of itself, of little importance.

> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>    to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>    default installer}

You can only fend for yourself within the constaints imposed by the
installer packaging system. You seem to think the standard system
utilities are part of your "minimal". They are not part of mine. There
is something to educate yourself on. They are not needed.

> My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a minimal
> MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended packages clash
> with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending packages after the fact is
> unaesthetic.
> 
> My test machine has both a default install from DVD 1 and my minimalist
> install. I had done a standard install without specifying any GUI or extra
> packages.
> 
> My base setup was installed by doing
>   apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-mate-desktop

That's a base *minimal* setup? Any task-* package is intended to provide
the fullest installation possible, even with --no-install-recommends.

>   apt-get install pluma gparted synaptic
> 
> All it lacks is internet connectivity.
> I have a WiFi hotspot from T-mobile which I effectively use as a modem (WiFi
> is intentionally disabled). On the standard install it appears eth2 on
> Network Manager Applet.
> 
> I used Synaptic to install network-manager-gnome

This is really what your post is about. I switched off when a decidedly
non-minimal package was mentioned. That's all apart from crippling the
use of a wireless connection.

> The apparent problem is that connecting the hotspot does dot trigger the
> "connecting" icon.

That's not the problem.

-- 
Brian.

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#207833 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

On 2019-04-24 18:36, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>    to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>    default installer}

Not sure if you want small Debian is the place to start. Debian is I 
think when you want reliability.
Think how it works is you want to build your own kernel with just the 
bits you need for your hardware and then install the software that you 
want from source.
You can get tiny distributions, Slitax is 32 Mb or something and the 
System Rescue CDs have the useful software.
All depends what the end result you want is.
mick

-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#207835 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

On 04/24/2019 02:41 PM, mick crane wrote:
> On 2019-04-24 18:36, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
>> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
>> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>>    to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>>    default installer}
> 
> Not sure if you want small Debian is the place to start. Debian is I 
> think when you want reliability.
> Think how it works is you want to build your own kernel with just the 
> bits you need for your hardware and then install the software that you 
> want from source.
> You can get tiny distributions, Slitax is 32 Mb or something and the 
> System Rescue CDs have the useful software.
> All depends what the end result you want is.
> mick
> 

I could have phrased it differently.
I'm looking for what I consider to be a minimal *Debian* install.
When I first got interested in Linux, I  had looked at projects such as 
"Linux From Scratch". I chose to go with Debian instead in the interest 
of productivity. But I do have the mindset appropriate to LFS.

BTW I'm of the CPM-80 era when 64k RAM and 10MB disk was ~= infinity. 
Also had an 8k Personal Electronic Transactor with mass storage on audio 
cassette.

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#207839 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 12:36:29 -0500
Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>     to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>     default installer}
> 
> My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a 
> minimal MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended 
> packages clash with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending packages 
> after the fact is unaesthetic.

If you intend on using MATE or for that matter, any desktop
environment, you're not going to get a VERY minimal install. Or even a
small install.  I suggest you go with just a window manager.  That's
what I did first with Wheezy, then Stretch.

Start with a clean terminal only system, then add X or enough of it to
make things work, the window manager, etc. until you've got what you
want. Add the applications and utilities that you need.  More work, but
you do get a small, efficient system without all the crap an
apt-get install MATE would get.

> [snip]

B

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#207840 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

On 04/24/2019 08:11 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 12:36:29 -0500
> Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> 
>> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
>> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
>> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>>      to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>>      default installer}
>>
>> My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a
>> minimal MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended
>> packages clash with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending packages
>> after the fact is unaesthetic.
> 
> If you intend on using MATE or for that matter, any desktop
> environment, you're not going to get a VERY minimal install. Or even a
> small install.  I suggest you go with just a window manager.  That's
> what I did first with Wheezy, then Stretch.
> 
> Start with a clean terminal only system, then add X or enough of it to
> make things work, the window manager, etc. until you've got what you
> want. Add the applications and utilities that you need.  More work, but
> you do get a small, efficient system without all the crap an
> apt-get install MATE would get.
> 

No thanks. I wish "...my personal take on a minimal MATE desktop".
MATE has features I do not wish to reinvent. There currently exists a 
potential audience for this of EXACTLY one. There are personal goals 
that I won't go into ;}

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#207844 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

On Wed 24 Apr 2019 at 22:07:33 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 04/24/2019 08:11 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 12:36:29 -0500
> > Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
> > > 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
> > > 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
> > >      to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
> > >      default installer}
> > > 
> > > My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a
> > > minimal MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended
> > > packages clash with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending packages
> > > after the fact is unaesthetic.
> > 
> > If you intend on using MATE or for that matter, any desktop
> > environment, you're not going to get a VERY minimal install. Or even a
> > small install.  I suggest you go with just a window manager.  That's
> > what I did first with Wheezy, then Stretch.
> > 
> > Start with a clean terminal only system, then add X or enough of it to
> > make things work, the window manager, etc. until you've got what you
> > want. Add the applications and utilities that you need.  More work, but
> > you do get a small, efficient system without all the crap an
> > apt-get install MATE would get.
> > 
> 
> No thanks. I wish "...my personal take on a minimal MATE desktop".

Of course you do.

> MATE has features I do not wish to reinvent. There currently exists a
> potential audience for this of EXACTLY one. There are personal goals
> that I won't go into ;}

If you won't reveal your goal, then the help you get here will consist
of handing you information on silver platters so that you don't have
to "fend for yourself".

BTW I agree with Georgios: if you don't install the "Recommends",
you may find that you don't get the functionality you expect.
The only thing guaranteed by installing the "Depends" is that
all the function calls will point at some runnable code rather than
just pointing into thin air.

Cheers,
David.

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#207848 — iwd and DNS (was: Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;))

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Den 2019-04-25 kl. 07:21, skrev David Wright:
> The only thing guaranteed by installing the "Depends" is that
> all the function calls will point at some runnable code rather than
> just pointing into thin air.

Thin air and deep waters is where I'm at.

I'm trying to set up the "tui" [text-based user interface] for the 
[Teres debian laptop].

I think the tui is designed to be quite minimal (hence I post in this 
thread).

I am surprised that I got iwd to connect to MY_OWN_WIFI:

         iwctl station wlan0 get-networks
         iwctl station wlan0 connect MY_OWN_WIFI

by copying psk file MY_OWN_WIFI.psk from another machine and then by putting it into /var/lib/iwd/ on the Teres debian laptop.

But it seems I have no DNS resolution (I can use the links-browser to go to web pages by IP numbers, but not by domain names).

I cannot do apt update. I get a "temporary failure resolving 'deb.debian.org'".

I'm not sure what exactly I'm asking for here. I guess I need the IP number of a DNS-server that some program can ask where deb.debian.org is located.

Grateful for hints.

Best regards.

//Erik


[text-based user interface] https://box.redpill.dk/  (scroll down to ##Addons)
[Teres debian laptop] https://box.redpill.dk/cli_with_quirks/

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#207850 — Re: iwd and DNS (was: Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;))

On 2019-04-25 10:30, Erik Josefsson wrote:
> Den 2019-04-25 kl. 07:21, skrev David Wright:
>> The only thing guaranteed by installing the "Depends" is that
>> all the function calls will point at some runnable code rather than
>> just pointing into thin air.
> 
> Thin air and deep waters is where I'm at.
> 
> I'm trying to set up the "tui" [text-based user interface] for the
> [Teres debian laptop].
> 
> I think the tui is designed to be quite minimal (hence I post in this 
> thread).
> 
> I am surprised that I got iwd to connect to MY_OWN_WIFI:
> 
>         iwctl station wlan0 get-networks
>         iwctl station wlan0 connect MY_OWN_WIFI
> 
> by copying psk file MY_OWN_WIFI.psk from another machine and then by
> putting it into /var/lib/iwd/ on the Teres debian laptop.
> 
> But it seems I have no DNS resolution (I can use the links-browser to
> go to web pages by IP numbers, but not by domain names).
> 
> I cannot do apt update. I get a "temporary failure resolving 
> 'deb.debian.org'".
> 
> I'm not sure what exactly I'm asking for here. I guess I need the IP
> number of a DNS-server that some program can ask where deb.debian.org
> is located.
> 
> Grateful for hints.
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> //Erik
> 
bearing in mind I don't know what I'm doing I'd put
nameserver 1.1.1.1
nameserver 1.0.0.1

in /etc/resolv.conf

and see if that works.

mick



> 
> [text-based user interface] https://box.redpill.dk/  (scroll down to 
> ##Addons)
> [Teres debian laptop] https://box.redpill.dk/cli_with_quirks/

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Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#207851 — Re: iwd and DNS (was: Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;))

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Quoting Erik Josefsson (2019-04-25 11:30:56)
> [Teres debian laptop] https://box.redpill.dk/cli_with_quirks/

Obsolete: Teres-I no longer need custom-built boot-loader for Buster!

More stable to link to the top directory: https://box.redpill.dk/


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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#207857 — Re: iwd and DNS (was: Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;))

On Thu 25 Apr 2019 at 11:30:56 (+0200), Erik Josefsson wrote:
> Den 2019-04-25 kl. 07:21, skrev David Wright:
> > The only thing guaranteed by installing the "Depends" is that
> > all the function calls will point at some runnable code rather than
> > just pointing into thin air.
> 
> Thin air and deep waters is where I'm at.

(But not in the sense I meant.)

> I'm trying to set up the "tui" [text-based user interface] for the
> [Teres debian laptop].

About which, I know nothing (the hardware or the TUI).

> I think the tui is designed to be quite minimal (hence I post in this
> thread).

Bad choice. Because of the frequency of the OP's subject line, I think
a lot of people will have ignored and delete the entire thread.
I would start a new thread with a subject line that includes teres
and DNS resolution.

> I am surprised that I got iwd to connect to MY_OWN_WIFI:
> 
>         iwctl station wlan0 get-networks
>         iwctl station wlan0 connect MY_OWN_WIFI
> 
> by copying psk file MY_OWN_WIFI.psk from another machine and then by putting it into /var/lib/iwd/ on the Teres debian laptop.

I don't recognise the iwctl command. That's really low-level stuff.

> But it seems I have no DNS resolution (I can use the links-browser to go to web pages by IP numbers, but not by domain names).
> 
> I cannot do apt update. I get a "temporary failure resolving 'deb.debian.org'".
> 
> I'm not sure what exactly I'm asking for here. I guess I need the IP number of a DNS-server that some program can ask where deb.debian.org is located.

What's in /etc/resolv.conf, and what has worked for you in the
past/another machine? For many home users, it's likely just
nameserver 192.168.1.1
where that's the address of their router (assuming
*it's* been configured.)

Cheers,
David.

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#207863

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Quoting Richard Owlett (2019-04-24 19:36:29)
> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>     to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>     default installer}
> 
> My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a 
> minimal MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended 
> packages clash with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending packages 
> after the fact is unaesthetic.
> 
> My test machine has both a default install from DVD 1 and my minimalist 
> install. I had done a standard install without specifying any GUI or 
> extra packages.
> 
> My base setup was installed by doing
>    apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-mate-desktop
>    apt-get install pluma gparted synaptic

I share your interest in installing minimal systems without the deroute 
of first installing too much and then removing unwanted parts.

I understand from your subject that you deliberately chose to explore 
first creating a broken system and then attempt to unbreak it.

For the record, there's another (at least to me) more sensible approach 
of explicitly skipping packages you don't want - e.g. like this:

  apt-get install task-mate-desktop libreoffice- libreoffice-gtk3-

Personally I use aptitude in fullscreen mode (i.e. run "aptitude" with 
no non-option arguments) to explore package relations (dependencies, 
recommendations, suggests, and enancements) interactively.

When I then have a set of explicit package selections possibly with 
explicit recommendation suppressions, I save those as classes for the 
tool "boxer" for reuse across many different larger system compositions.

If anyone is interested in collaborating on that approach, I welcome you 
to join the Debian Tinker project: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTinker


> All it lacks is internet connectivity.

Unless you examined _every_ ignored recommendation and confirmed that 
indeed you did not need it, you must mean "...known so far"!


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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#207868 — Re: Attempting a VERY minimal install (using --no-install-recommends ;)

On 04/26/2019 04:24 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Quoting Richard Owlett (2019-04-24 19:36:29)
>> I'm attempting a very minimal install because:
>> 1. small size in and of itself is a good goal
>> 2. fending for oneself is a valuable educational experience compared
>>      to having everything handed to you on a "golden platter" {Debian's
>>      default installer}
>>
>> My current experiments revolve around defining my personal take on a
>> minimal MATE desktop. Part of the motivation is that some recommended
>> packages clash with ones I wish to use. Just removing offending packages
>> after the fact is unaesthetic.
>>
>> My test machine has both a default install from DVD 1 and my minimalist
>> install. I had done a standard install without specifying any GUI or
>> extra packages.
>>
>> My base setup was installed by doing
>>     apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-mate-desktop
>>     apt-get install pluma gparted synaptic
> 
> I share your interest in installing minimal systems without the deroute
> of first installing too much and then removing unwanted parts.
> 
> I understand from your subject that you deliberately chose to explore
> first creating a broken system and then attempt to unbreak it.

It's not so much that I intentionally "broke" the system but I 
eliminated the "noise" of a set of sub-optimal permutation of recommends.

[One thing I've not sufficiently explored is the formal procedure/logic 
of recommending a particular package.]

The experiment met a preliminary goal. Using only *depends* does yield a 
"working", if not "productive",  system. Rather than being a "broken" 
system, I think of what I have as a "skeleton" that needs "flesh".

> 
> For the record, there's another (at least to me) more sensible approach
> of explicitly skipping packages you don't want - e.g. like this:
> 
>    apt-get install task-mate-desktop libreoffice- libreoffice-gtk3-

I just re-read the apt-get man page. I assume that is applying:
> If a hyphen is appended to the package name (with no intervening
> space), the identified package will be removed if it is installed.
I'd read that before but never seen an example of it before. I'll have 
to think on its implications for some vague ideas I've had.

> 
> Personally I use aptitude in fullscreen mode (i.e. run "aptitude" with
> no non-option arguments) to explore package relations (dependencies,
> recommendations, suggests, and enancements) interactively.

"aptitude --show-XXX" may be what I've been looking for. Can you 
recommend  article/tutorial/examples I should read.

> 
> When I then have a set of explicit package selections possibly with
> explicit recommendation suppressions, I save those as classes for the
> tool "boxer" for reuse across many different larger system compositions.

I found https://wiki.debian.org/Boxer . Is there more extensive 
documentation/examples?

> 
> If anyone is interested in collaborating on that approach, I welcome you
> to join the Debian Tinker project: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTinker
> 
> 
>> All it lacks is internet connectivity.
> 
> Unless you examined _every_ ignored recommendation and confirmed that
> indeed you did not need it, you must mean "...known so far"!

<SNICKER><grin> That meant only that  the lack of internet connectivity 
was preventing me from my planned activities. That lack was due to an error.

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#207871

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Quoting Richard Owlett (2019-04-26 14:10:02)
> On 04/26/2019 04:24 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Quoting Richard Owlett (2019-04-24 19:36:29)
> >> My base setup was installed by doing
> >>     apt-get --no-install-recommends install task-mate-desktop
> >>     apt-get install pluma gparted synaptic
> > 
> > I share your interest in installing minimal systems without the 
> > deroute of first installing too much and then removing unwanted 
> > parts.
> > 
> > I understand from your subject that you deliberately chose to 
> > explore first creating a broken system and then attempt to unbreak 
> > it.
> 
> It's not so much that I intentionally "broke" the system but I 
> eliminated the "noise" of a set of sub-optimal permutation of 
> recommends.

*plonk*


> > Personally I use aptitude in fullscreen mode (i.e. run "aptitude" 
> > with no non-option arguments) to explore package relations 
> > (dependencies, recommendations, suggests, and enancements) 
> > interactively.
> 
> "aptitude --show-XXX" may be what I've been looking for. Can you 
> recommend article/tutorial/examples I should read.

Official documentation is good: 
https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude#Aptitude_User_Manual


> > When I then have a set of explicit package selections possibly with 
> > explicit recommendation suppressions, I save those as classes for 
> > the tool "boxer" for reuse across many different larger system 
> > compositions.
> 
> I found https://wiki.debian.org/Boxer . Is there more extensive 
> documentation/examples?

Formal documentation is sorely lacking, unfortunately.

Best example is... the Tinker project:

> > If anyone is interested in collaborating on that approach, I welcome 
> > you to join the Debian Tinker project: 
> > https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTinker

...more specifically the boxer nodes most actively developed: 
https://salsa.debian.org/tinker-team/box/tree/master/nodes

...which corresponds to the images at https://box.redpill.dk/


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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