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is xdvi broken?

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  is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-16 21:10 +0200
    Re: is xdvi broken? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2019-04-16 21:30 +0200
      Re: is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-16 22:30 +0200
        Re: is xdvi broken? Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2019-04-17 02:30 +0200
          Re: is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-17 05:20 +0200
            Re: is xdvi broken? Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2019-04-17 19:40 +0200
              Re: is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-17 20:30 +0200
                Re: is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-19 23:20 +0200
                  Re: is xdvi broken? Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-04-20 00:40 +0200
                    Re: is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-20 01:20 +0200
                      Re: is xdvi broken? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-04-20 03:30 +0200
                        Re: is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-20 05:40 +0200
                          Re: is xdvi broken? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-04-20 10:00 +0200
                            Re: is xdvi broken? Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-04-20 11:50 +0200
                          Re: is xdvi broken? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-04-21 02:50 +0200
                            Re: is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-21 09:40 +0200
                              Re: is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-21 10:00 +0200
                                Re: is xdvi broken? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-04-22 03:50 +0200
                                  Re: is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-22 07:20 +0200
                                    Re: is xdvi broken? Bill Wood <william.wood3@comcast.net> - 2019-04-22 09:00 +0200
                                      Re: is xdvi broken? rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-22 10:10 +0200
                                        Re: is xdvi broken? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-04-22 10:40 +0200
                                        Re: is xdvi broken? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-04-22 21:00 +0200
                              Re: is xdvi broken? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-04-22 05:20 +0200
                      Re: is xdvi broken? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-04-20 15:00 +0200

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#207763

On 2019.04.22 06:51, Bill Wood wrote:

> Is there a reason not to use pdflatex?  My workflow then is
> = In emacs, save the doc foo.tex
> = switch to a virtual terminal
> = execute "pdflatex foo.tex" (as many times as needed)

Why would it be necessary to execute pdflatex more than once?

> = execute "evince foo.pdf"
> = when desired, select "Print" from the "File options" menu of evince
> = switch back to emacs

But to print from evince requires that I take my hand off the
keyboard and reach for the rodent in order to print.

Kindly forgive my lack of perception, but I do not see why it is
advantageous to introduce into my work routine a PDF file and a PDF
viewer such as evince.

In order to write say, an article, I fire up Emacs, write for a while,
using LaTeX markup, now and then in Emacs executing "Ctrl-x s"
to save the document (I dislike to be interrupted by the auto-save
feature of Emacs).

Occasionally I print out a paper copy of the incomplete article and
move to my reading chair, using a pen to make revisions and correct
typographical errors.  To print a copy, I:

     = use Alt-TAB to switch to a terminal

     = execute "latext foo.tex"
       (if I am running latexmk with the -pcv option,
       this occurs automatically)

     = execute "dvips foo.dvi"
       (if I am running latexmk with the -pcv option,
       this occurs automatically)

     = execute "lpr foo.ps"

     = use Alt-TAB to return to the Emacs screen

Sometimes I simply need to glance briefly at the document in typeset
form, without printing it out on paper.  For this, I:

     = use Alt-TAB to switch to a terminal

     = execute "latext foo.tex"
       (if I am running latexmk with the -pcv option,
       this occurs automatically)

     = use Alt-TAB to advance to the xdvi screen

     = use Alt-TAB to return to the Emacs screen

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#207764

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On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 08:06:01AM +0000, rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> On 2019.04.22 06:51, Bill Wood wrote:
> 
> >Is there a reason not to use pdflatex?  My workflow then is
> >= In emacs, save the doc foo.tex
> >= switch to a virtual terminal
> >= execute "pdflatex foo.tex" (as many times as needed)
> 
> Why would it be necessary to execute pdflatex more than once?

Index generation, cross references, things like that (pagination
decisions are taken at the latest possible moment, so references
to the current page (number) and more so references to following
pages are not resolvable in the first pass. If you're nasty, a
page break might depend on the width of a not-yet-known page number
which depends itself on... you get the idea).

Other things potentially needing more than one pass: long tables
spanning several pages.

> But to print from evince requires that I take my hand off the
> keyboard and reach for the rodent in order to print.
> 
> Kindly forgive my lack of perception, but I do not see why it is
> advantageous to introduce into my work routine a PDF file and a PDF
> viewer such as evince.

Dvi workflow is pretty minimal, and I love it when I can get away
with it. OTOH, pdflatex (and lualatex) have tricks which the more
traditional workflow can't play.

For some examples, go browse http://www.texample.net

Sometimes, a good visualization is worth a lot.

Cheers
-- tomás

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#207773

On Mon 22 Apr 2019 at 08:06:01 (+0000), rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> On 2019.04.22 06:51, Bill Wood wrote:
> 
> > Is there a reason not to use pdflatex?  My workflow then is
> > = In emacs, save the doc foo.tex
> > = switch to a virtual terminal
> > = execute "pdflatex foo.tex" (as many times as needed)
> 
> Why would it be necessary to execute pdflatex more than once?

If you don't check for the re-run message at the end of your final
run (LateX book p128), then a second run should rectify any
cross-references that have moved (unless you have a pathological
document that flipflops across two pages). In general, you need to
ascertain that the contents of the .aux file is completely up-to-date
before the final run.

> > = execute "evince foo.pdf"
> > = when desired, select "Print" from the "File options" menu of evince
> > = switch back to emacs
> 
> But to print from evince requires that I take my hand off the
> keyboard and reach for the rodent in order to print.

My workflow does not involve a mouse at all.
(Very few of my workflows do.)

Iteration 1:
    emacs filename.tex
    edits
    ^X^S
    Win¹-Right (to next viewport)
    pdfl² filename
    Win-Right
    xpdf filename.pdf
    Win-Left Win-Left

Subsequent iterations:
    more edits
    Win-Right
    Up Return (repeats pdfl command from commandline's history)
    Win-Right
    r
    Win-Left Win-Left

To print a copy (from the middle viewport):
    Up .pdf Home Space p8500 ESC-d Return
which will edit "pdfl filename" into " p8500³ filename.pdf" and
execute it without polluting the commandline's history.

¹ Win is left of Alt.
² pdfl is a bash function that checks pathname.tex exists, generates
  pathname.pdf, runs lualatex in pathname.tex's directory with
  -halt-on-error -synctex=1, moves the .log file into my "trash
  directory" under /tmp, and moves .aux too if its contents are
  solely \relax .
³ p8500 is a bash function that prints a file on the portrait queue
  (as opposed to l8500 for landscape).

I've ignored the fourth viewport that I use for occasional detailed
layout work, and which displays a temporary rendition of a page from
some previous iteration, so I can do A-B-A-B comparison (as I
described in an earlier post). It's far quicker than having to make
ephemeral PDF copies for preserving the earlier rendition.

> Kindly forgive my lack of perception, but I do not see why it is
> advantageous to introduce into my work routine a PDF file and a PDF
> viewer such as evince.

It's always difficult to keep up with changes in programs that you
don't use, but I think it's still true to say that latex can only
include graphics in EPS format.

OTOH pdflatex and lualatex handle PNGs, JPEGs and PDFs. That nicely
covers diagrams, images and documents (the latter recursively).
So you only need one set of tools for each of these formats.
I do all my document post-processing with scripts/functions invoking
programs like pdftk and pdfjam, all operating on PDFs.

Cheers,
David.

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#207757

On Sun 21 Apr 2019 at 02:31:51 (-0500), rlharris@oplink.net wrote:
> On 2019.04.20 19:42, David Wright wrote:
> > How do you "switch" between them?
> 
> Alt-TAB, multiple times if necessary.  I switch back and forth between
> four or five windows: Emacs, dictionary, xdvi, terminal, and sometimes
> a reference document on a web page.  Running latexmk, I hardly ever
> needed to switch to the terminal window.

That sounds as if you're rotating the focus between windows that are
all on the screen at the same time, perhaps in a minimised state part
of the time?

> > That's why I asked how you "switch" between them, above, in order to
> > find out what shortcut you're using that makes hitting "R" in the
> > preview window too onerous. I find a major advantage in not having
> > the viewer update itself automatically.
> 
> I agree; so just before switching to the viewer, I save the document
> (Ctr-x s) in Emacs and then switch; but if I wish to look again at the
> old version, I switch without saving.

Yes, but once it's saved so that you can view the newer version, the
old one is gone for good. I don't know of any way to prevent xdvi from
reloading a file whenever it changes. Using viewports in fvwm with xpdf,
you can instantly switch between the two versions of the PDF displayed
in precisely the same position on the screen, to make an accurate
comparison. (Evince and zathura both suffer the same problem as xdvi.)
But for most people, it's probably a minor detail.

Cheers,
David.

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#207711

On 2019-04-19, rlharris@oplink.net <rlharris@oplink.net> wrote:
> On 2019.04.19 17:33, Étienne Mollier wrote:
> ...
>> It has this look and feel typical from monochrome X
>> graphical interfaces released in the 80's.  Tasty !  :)
>
> At least for diagnosing this problem, I would be interested in an 
> alternative to xdvi.
>
>

For 'latexmk -pvc', maybe you could create a $HOME/.latexmkrc file (if
you don't already have one)

 $dvi_previewer = 'start xdvi -watchfile 1.5';
 $ps_previewer  = 'start gv --watch';
 $pdf_previewer = 'start evince';

and use evince (or some other) dvi viewer rather than xdvi ('start
evince' instead of 'start xdvi -watchfile 1.5' above).

I guess even if you close the xdvi window, any subsequent saves in the
source file(s) might launch another instance (I don't have latexmk
installed so I can't experiment). 

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