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Groups > linux.debian.user > #206560 > unrolled thread
| Started by | mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2019-03-25 05:40 +0100 |
| Last post | 2019-03-30 12:20 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 118 — 29 participants |
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text editors mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 05:40 +0100
Re: text editors Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 06:00 +0100
Re: text editors Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2019-03-25 06:10 +0100
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-25 06:40 +0100
Re: text editors mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 09:00 +0100
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-25 11:20 +0100
Re: text editors mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 11:40 +0100
Re: text editors Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 07:00 +0100
Re: text editors john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2019-03-25 07:40 +0100
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-25 12:10 +0100
Re: text editors rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-03-25 12:50 +0100
Re: text editors rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-03-25 13:10 +0100
Re: text editors Étienne Mollier <etienne.mollier@mailoo.org> - 2019-03-25 21:20 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-25 22:10 +0100
Re: text editors Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2019-03-25 13:30 +0100
Re: text editors mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-03-26 08:40 +0100
Re: text editors Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2019-03-26 16:50 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-26 18:00 +0100
Re: text editors Håkon Alstadheim <hakon@alstadheim.priv.no> - 2019-03-26 21:20 +0100
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-27 03:30 +0100
Re: text editors rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-03-27 13:10 +0100
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-27 14:30 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-27 15:10 +0100
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-27 15:40 +0100
Re: text editors rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-03-27 17:30 +0100
Re: text editors rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-03-28 18:40 +0100
keyboard macros (was: Re: text editors) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-03-28 19:00 +0100
Re: keyboard macros John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-28 19:30 +0100
Re: keyboard macros Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-28 20:00 +0100
Re: keyboard macros rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-03-28 19:50 +0100
Re: keyboard macros John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-28 20:10 +0100
xfce launchers rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-03 18:40 +0200
Re: xfce launchers Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@alum.berkeley.edu> - 2019-04-04 07:20 +0200
Re: xfce launchers rlharris@oplink.net - 2019-04-04 07:40 +0200
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-29 06:20 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-28 03:40 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-28 03:50 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-28 08:00 +0100
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-28 09:20 +0100
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-28 10:40 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-28 21:10 +0100
Emacs without knowing any Lisp (was: text editors) Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2019-03-29 02:50 +0100
Re: Emacs without knowing any Lisp (was: text editors) Bill Wood <william.wood3@comcast.net> - 2019-03-29 06:50 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-28 14:10 +0100
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-28 14:50 +0100
Re: text editors David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-03-28 14:30 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-28 15:20 +0100
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-28 15:30 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-28 21:30 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-29 00:40 +0100
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-29 06:30 +0100
Re: text editors Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2019-03-29 09:00 +0100
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-29 10:20 +0100
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-29 12:40 +0100
Re: text editors Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2019-03-29 18:00 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-29 19:50 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-29 20:10 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-30 00:10 +0100
Re: text editors Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-03-30 00:30 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-30 01:20 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-30 01:40 +0100
Re: text editors David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-03-30 04:30 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-30 09:30 +0100
What does all this mean? was Re: text editors David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-03-30 17:20 +0100
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-30 05:30 +0100
Re: text editors Bob Bernstein <poobah@ruptured-duck.com> - 2019-03-30 02:20 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-30 02:30 +0100
Re: text editors David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-03-30 01:50 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-04-01 12:10 +0200
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-04-01 12:10 +0200
Re: text editors Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2019-04-01 12:50 +0200
Re: text editors David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-04-01 16:40 +0200
Re: text editors Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2019-04-01 16:00 +0200
Re: text editors "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-04-01 16:30 +0200
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-04-01 16:50 +0200
Re: text editors Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-04-01 17:40 +0200
Re: text editors Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2019-04-01 18:20 +0200
Re: text editors "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2019-04-01 19:50 +0200
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-04-01 18:40 +0200
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-04-01 16:50 +0200
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-04-01 17:10 +0200
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-29 11:00 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-29 13:00 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-28 21:20 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-29 10:50 +0100
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-29 11:50 +0100
Re: text editors David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-03-28 17:20 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-28 17:50 +0100
Re: text editors Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-03-28 18:20 +0100
Re: text editors Dekks Herton <dekkzz78@gmail.com> - 2019-03-29 10:40 +0100
Re: text editors David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-03-29 20:30 +0100
Re: text editors Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2019-03-30 03:20 +0100
Re: text editors David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2019-04-01 18:40 +0200
Re: text editors Dekks Herton <dekkzz78@gmail.com> - 2019-03-29 10:40 +0100
Re: text editors Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2019-03-27 20:40 +0100
Re: text editors Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2019-03-28 01:30 +0100
Re: text editors Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-27 12:10 +0100
Re: text editors Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2019-03-28 07:30 +0100
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-28 11:40 +0100
Re: text editors "tomas@tuxteam.de" <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-28 12:30 +0100
Re: text editors "tomas@tuxteam.de" <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-28 13:00 +0100
Re: text editors Pierre Fourès <pierre.foures@gmail.com> - 2019-03-28 17:50 +0100
Re: text editors deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2019-03-28 21:40 +0100
Re: text editors mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-03-27 10:00 +0100
Re: text editors Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2019-03-27 11:20 +0100
Re: text editors Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2019-03-27 16:50 +0100
Understanding (some) Lisp (was: Re: text editors) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2019-03-28 17:10 +0100
Re: Understanding (some) Lisp Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2019-03-28 17:20 +0100
Re: text editors Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2019-03-26 03:30 +0100
Re: text editors Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2019-03-26 06:30 +0100
Re: text editors Tony Rowe <ay986@chebucto.ns.ca> - 2019-03-26 23:40 +0100
Re: text editors Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2019-03-28 01:30 +0100
Re: text editors John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-03-28 03:00 +0100
Re: text editors <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2019-03-28 09:20 +0100
Re: text editors mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-03-27 12:10 +0100
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-29 07:30 +0100
Re: text editors Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2019-03-29 09:30 +0100
Re: text editors mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2019-03-30 12:20 +0100
Page 2 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 Next page →
| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-27 13:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGfxv-8ru-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206647 |
On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 10:26:02 PM Erik Christiansen wrote: > IME, the real reason why we won't consider the other editor is because > of the time and energy spent learning the first good one we came across, > and the grating frustration and lost productivity of dropping to the > bottom of the learning curve to switch to horse of a different colour > but similar performance. The "typing chords" vs modality difference > essentially becomes moot once you adapt to your choice. Probably. Good point! And, for people coming from Windows, EMACS (at least before a WYSIWYG / mouse version (which I think exists now -- was tHat XEMACS for a while and then maybe merged back into EMACS) and vi/vim are quite different.
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-27 14:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGgMV-DO-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206659 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 08:05:30AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: [...] > Good point! > > And, for people coming from Windows, EMACS (at least before a WYSIWYG / mouse > version (which I think exists now -- was tHat XEMACS for a while and then > maybe merged back into EMACS) and vi/vim are quite different. These days, Emacs can even (GASP!) display images! png, jpeg, what you throw at it. For SVGs you can switch back and forth between (XML) source and image view. While in XML source "mode" you of course have all the advanced XML edit machinery Emacs can offer. GUI menus etc. are an old hat (> 10 years), for XEmacs even older. Ooops, shattered another prejudice ;-) It /is/ a steep learning curve at the beginning (I can confirm, having come from vi, then vim -- in which I'm still fluent). But it is worth every turn in that panoramic route. Cheers -- tomás
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-27 15:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGhpD-16l-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206665 |
tomás writes: > It /is/ a steep learning curve at the beginning (I can confirm, having > come from vi, then vim -- in which I'm still fluent). But it is worth > every turn in that panoramic route. I started out with Vi on UNix and eventually switched to Emacs. I still often use Vim. I think that one problem people have with Emacs is that they think they need to learn all of it before they can use it. Work with the tutorial until you are proficient enough with basic editing commands to be productive. After that whenever you come up with something such as the need to mark a block of text read-only search the documentation: a command to do it probably exists. If you then find yourself using that command frequently it will become automatic. If not you will still know that it exists and so will be able to quickly find it in the docs and refresh your memory when a need for it pops up years later. Of course, you can create function key shortcuts for the commands you use a lot: no need to constantly type long strings into the minibuffer or memorize exotic escape sequences. Also, almost everything is somewhere in the menus if you like that sort of thing. There is even a customization interface so you need not learn Elisp. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-27 15:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGhSF-1fz-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206668 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 09:00:07AM -0500, John Hasler wrote: > tomás writes: > > It /is/ a steep learning curve at the beginning (I can confirm, having > > come from vi, then vim -- in which I'm still fluent). But it is worth > > every turn in that panoramic route. > > I started out with Vi on UNix and eventually switched to Emacs. I still > often use Vim. Same. Right now, I'm using vim, f.e. > I think that one problem people have with Emacs is that they think they > need to learn all of it before they can use it. That would be a fatal mistake, indeed. But there's another hurdle, which is not to be subestimated. Emacs, as an old program, comes along with an old culture, with its own lispeltongue (i.e. "point" instead of "cursor", "window" for "sub-frame", etc.). It takes a while to understand that it's totally worh it to embrace this mysterious language/culture. > Work with the tutorial until you are proficient enough [...] Agree with your other points. Especially the tutorial is nice. Cheers -- t
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| From | rlharris@oplink.net |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-27 17:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGjB7-2kA-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206671 |
On 2019.03.27 09:37, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 09:00:07AM -0500, John Hasler wrote: >> tomás writes: >> > It /is/ a steep learning curve at the beginning (I can confirm, having >> > come from vi, then vim -- in which I'm still fluent). But it is worth >> > every turn in that panoramic route. <snip> >> I think that one problem people have with Emacs is that they think >> they >> need to learn all of it before they can use it. ... As well as being easy to use for general word processing, Emacs excels in the work of writing scripts, in which the "COMPOSE-A-NEW-MACRO-WHENEVER-YOU-NEED-IT;IT-TAKES-ONLY-A-FEW-SECONDS" ability of Emacs is invaluable. After all, the name Emacs is an acronym for "Editing MACroS". Need to make alterations to dozens of lines? If you can figure out a repetitive sequence of keystrokes to accomplish the change, you can save that sequence as a macro. And those keystrokes can involve searches and operations such as "advance one word", "go to string xxYYz", "go to end of line", "replace xxx with yyy", and so forth. Each time you need to do something which is impossible or would take forever with a rodent-dependent editor, you need to stop a minute and search for the way to do it with Emacs; that is the way you learn Emacs -- when you have motivation. O'Reilly published a marvelous book on Emacs, "Learning GNU Emacs", in which author Debra Cameron takes the reader from the state of "complete novice" to "power user". An Emacs guru who has been of great benefit to me is Xah Lee, who has written a tutorial: http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/emacs.html as well as much material on Emacs; check out his blog: http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/blog.html
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| From | rlharris@oplink.net |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 18:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGHap-8vq-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206676 |
On 2019.03.28 03:16, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote: >>>>>> "r" == rlharris <rlharris@oplink.net> writes: > r> Need to make alterations to dozens of lines? If you can figure out > r> a repetitive sequence of keystrokes to accomplish the change, you ... > Or said with other words: > - replace a repetitive task where you are part of a machine the > "Metropolis" way with the task of creating an automatic solution. But when the first task is going to take an hour and severely tax your manual (finger) dexterity, whereas the replacement takes about a minute and requires only a bit of mental dexterity... The end-of-day morale is boosted by such success in boosting productivity. Once you start using Emacs macros and see the benefit, you likely shall find yourself creating and using numerous macros within each editing session. You demonstrate once to the robot, and the robot faithfully mimics you, without error. The only question is whether you are willing to teach the robot by recording your keystrokes in a macro (it takes two keystrokes).
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| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 19:00 +0100 |
| Subject | keyboard macros (was: Re: text editors) |
| Message-ID | <xGHtL-bf-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206749 |
Not responding specifically to the following, but keyboard / keystroke macros are not a strictly EMACS function, and I don't think EMACS was first. I can't remember all of them, I do know nedit has them, I sort of recall that wordstar or the shareware editor that used the same keyboard shortcuts (on DOS) also had them, Just saying, you don't need EMACS to get the benefit of keyboard macros. On Thursday, March 28, 2019 01:34:49 PM rlharris@oplink.net wrote: > But when the first task is going to take an hour and severely tax your > manual (finger) dexterity, whereas the replacement takes about a minute > and requires only a bit of mental dexterity... The end-of-day morale is > boosted by such success in boosting productivity. > > Once you start using Emacs macros and see the benefit, you likely shall > find yourself creating and using numerous macros within each editing > session. You demonstrate once to the robot, and the robot faithfully > mimics you, without error. The only question is whether you are willing > to teach the robot by recording your keystrokes in a macro (it takes two > keystrokes).
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 19:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: keyboard macros |
| Message-ID | <xGHWN-B2-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206750 |
rhkramer writes: > Not responding specifically to the following, but keyboard / keystroke > macros are not a strictly EMACS function, and I don't think EMACS was > first. TEMACS had them, of course. In fact, that's pretty much what TEMACS *was*. Emacs was initially built on TEMACS. No, you don't need Emacs to get the benefit of keyboard macros. You also don't need to learn how to create keyboard macros to get some of the benefits of Emacs. -- John "I once actually *used* TEMACS" Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 20:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: keyboard macros |
| Message-ID | <xGIpQ-Lj-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206752 |
On 3/28/19, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote: > rhkramer writes: >> Not responding specifically to the following, but keyboard / keystroke >> macros are not a strictly EMACS function, and I don't think EMACS was >> first. > > TEMACS had them, of course. In fact, that's pretty much what TEMACS > *was*. Emacs was initially built on TEMACS. > > No, you don't need Emacs to get the benefit of keyboard macros. You > also don't need to learn how to create keyboard macros to get some of > the benefits of Emacs. Emacs has received a regular mention in a few places around the Web. Based on this today, I tried a quick "apt-cache search" which responded back with a very short list (that included JavaScript, Python, and "BeanShell" package references for Libreoffice). So I checked out Emacs' description in hopes of hints toward a possibly better keyword search. Its description is rather "brief". It could maybe use some fan love, e.g. an unordered list of fans' favorite features, such that it bubbles up when users go searching their package repositories for its particular talents: +++ BEGIN EMACS PACKAGE DESCRIPTION +++ Description-en: GNU Emacs editor (with GTK+ GUI support) GNU Emacs is the extensible self-documenting text editor. This package contains a version of Emacs with a graphical user interface based on GTK+ (instead of the Lucid toolkit provided by the emacs-lucid package). +++ END EMACS PACKAGE DESCRIPTION +++ It's been on my to-do (eventually) list for a while. Its download size (indicating some potential feature heft) plus today's exchange about it has shifted it to a must-do. :) Those same very short search query results also suggested something called "onboard": +++ BEGIN ONBOARD PACKAGE DESCRIPTION +++ Description-en: Simple On-screen Keyboard On-screen Keyboard with macros, easy layout creation and word suggestion. . This on-screen keyboard can be useful for tablet PC users, as well as for mobility impaired users. +++ END ONBOARD PACKAGE DESCRIPTION +++ Very cool about the mobility related disabilities consideration there. That's a personal fave to remind people about related to computer usage, including web design layout, e.g. don't force users to have to reach and continuously scroll any more than absolutely necessary per webpage. Cindy :) -- Cindy-Sue Causey Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA * runs with birdseed *
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| From | rlharris@oplink.net |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 19:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: keyboard macros |
| Message-ID | <xGIg9-HN-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206750 |
On 2019.03.28 12:58, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > Not responding specifically to the following, but keyboard / keystroke > macros > are not a strictly EMACS function, and I don't think EMACS was first. ... > Just saying, you don't need EMACS to get the benefit of keyboard > macros. The package with which macros originated matters not to me; what matters is the packages which today offer keyboard macros. But in my case, macros are the icing on the cake. The event which motivated me to depart from the realm of M$DOS and seek a (rodentless) open source editor was a genuine Y2K bug, admitted by M$, which caused M$ Word 5.0 for DOS to write garbage to the data files. The tedious and largely-frustrating attempt to recover the text of hundreds of Word 5.0 files taught me an indelible lesson regarding the folly of proprietary encodings, and it taught me the propriety of the markup approach, in which the data file contains nothing but ASCII characters. None of the numerous recovery packages I found back then were able to recover text with italic, bolface, and underline, though preservation of these attributes is infinitely more vital than is preservation of sectioning and even of paragraph divisions. Coming from a rodentless background (typewriter, early dedicated word processors, and even M$ Word 5.0 for DOS), I have little use for the rodent, and I have even less tolerance for the beast. From my perspective, the rodent is not a cute little "mouse"; it is an ugly and troublesome rat.
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 20:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: keyboard macros |
| Message-ID | <xGIzv-13S-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206753 |
rlharris writes: > Coming from a rodentless background (typewriter, early dedicated word > processors, and even M$ Word 5.0 for DOS), I have little use for the > rodent, and I have even less tolerance for the beast. From my > perspective, the rodent is not a cute little "mouse"; it is an ugly > and troublesome rat. Coming from even farther back (manual typewriter, coding sheets, punch cards, text terminals) I find my trackball very useful. The mouse, on the other hand, is a silly design based on the assumption that you can only grasp the idea of moving the cursor around on the screen by moving your entire hand around on your desk. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | rlharris@oplink.net |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-04-03 18:40 +0200 |
| Subject | xfce launchers |
| Message-ID | <xIR5D-6Fh-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206756 |
I installed Debian 9 on three or four machines, some are i386 and others are amd64. I installed both Gnome and Xfce desktops on every machine, but I am using Xfce on all of the machines. On at least one machine, some of the Xfce launchers are inoperative, including the launcher for Synaptic and the launcher for Midnight Commander; however, both of the packages launch properly from the command line. Removing the launcher and configuring another launcher does not cure the problem. Meanwhile, launchers for Synaptic and Midnight Commander operate properly on the other machines.
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| From | Mike Kupfer <mkupfer@alum.berkeley.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-04-04 07:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: xfce launchers |
| Message-ID | <xJ2X7-5Da-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206928 |
rlharris@oplink.net wrote: > On at least one machine, some of the Xfce launchers are inoperative, > including the launcher for Synaptic and the launcher for Midnight > Commander I don't know about MC, but for Synaptic, is policykit-1-gnome installed on that system? (cf. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=881365) mike
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| From | rlharris@oplink.net |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-04-04 07:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: xfce launchers |
| Message-ID | <xJ3gu-5JE-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206941 |
On 2019.04.03 23:26, Mike Kupfer wrote: > I don't know about MC, but for Synaptic, is policykit-1-gnome installed > on that system? > (cf. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=881365) According to Synaptic, policykit-1-gnome is NOT installed.
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| From | Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-29 06:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGS5P-6Tu-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206749 |
On 28.03.19 12:34, rlharris@oplink.net wrote: > Once you start using Emacs macros and see the benefit, you likely shall find > yourself creating and using numerous macros within each editing session. > You demonstrate once to the robot, and the robot faithfully mimics you, > without error. The only question is whether you are willing to teach the > robot by recording your keystrokes in a macro (it takes two keystrokes in Vim or Emacs. > ).
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 03:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGt7r-8f8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206671 |
tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > That would be a fatal mistake, indeed. But there's another hurdle, > which is not to be subestimated. Emacs, as an old program, comes > along with an old culture, with its own lispeltongue (i.e. "point" > instead of "cursor", "window" for "sub-frame", etc.). It takes a > while to understand that it's totally worh it to embrace this mysterious > language/culture. exactly - learning emacs means learning lisp - what for? I switched years ago to ne.
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 03:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGth7-8iT-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206705 |
deloptes writes: > learning emacs means learning lisp Not true. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 08:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGxb3-2ln-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206706 |
John Hasler wrote: > Not true. really, I did not know that you could be me and you knew my experience. Anyway emacs is not bad for those who know it, but it is impractical because you have mostly vim installed, so learning vim is a must indeed. If you use debian I recommend learning ne - a great editor unfortunately not installed by default. regards
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 09:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGyqu-3gK-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206710 |
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On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 07:51:53AM +0100, deloptes wrote: [...] > Anyway emacs is not bad for those who know it, but it is impractical because > you have mostly vim installed, so learning vim is a must indeed. Eating roquefort is impractical because you gotta drink wine anyway :-) Look -- you can do both (I do). If you're looking for excuses to stay away from Emacs: no need to, just do. But as little need to spread FUD about Emacs. Yes, Emacs is a decent editor. No, you don't /have/ to know Lisp to use it. Yes, if you do learn Lisp, you get powers few other editors give you. Yes, Emacs is somewhat idiosincratic (as Vi(m) is -- most powerful editors seem to be). Cheers -- t
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-03-28 10:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <xGzFT-3WF-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #206715 |
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On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 08:39:42AM +0000, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote: [...] > LOL. Maybe some gongorzola with mascarpone could be more pratical? :-) -- t
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