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update hell

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  update hell Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 06:20 +0200
    Re: update hell Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-07-27 06:50 +0200
      Re: update hell Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-07-27 07:10 +0200
        Re: update hell Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 17:10 +0200
      Re: update hell Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-07-31 01:40 +0200
        Re: update hell Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-07-31 02:10 +0200
          Re: update hell Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-07-31 02:20 +0200
            Re: update hell Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 01:20 +0200
              Re: update hell Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-08-01 05:20 +0200
                Re: update hell Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-08-01 06:00 +0200
                Re: update hell Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-08-01 10:00 +0200
                  Re: update hell Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> - 2018-08-02 03:10 +0200
                    Re: update hell Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2018-08-02 03:40 +0200
                      Re: update hell Thomas D Dial <tdial@acm.org> - 2018-08-02 09:40 +0200
                    Re: update hell Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2018-08-02 09:40 +0200

#198037 — update hell

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Hi.

Debian Unstable, x86-64
Time to update:

$ sudo aptitude -Pvv full-upgrade
The following packages will be upgraded:
  libqt5core5a libqt5dbus5 libqt5gui5 libqt5network5 libqt5positioning5
libqt5printsupport5
  libqt5qml5 libqt5quick5 libqt5quickcontrols2-5 libqt5quicktemplates2-5
libqt5quickwidgets5
  libqt5script5 libqt5sensors5 libqt5svg5 libqt5test5 libqt5texttospeech5
libqt5waylandclient5
  libqt5waylandcompositor5 libqt5webchannel5 libqt5webkit5 libqt5widgets5
libqt5x11extras5
  libqt5xml5 qml-module-qtgraphicaleffects qml-module-qtqml-models2
qml-module-qtquick-controls2
  qml-module-qtquick-templates2 qml-module-qtquick-window2
qml-module-qtquick2
  qt5-gtk-platformtheme qtwayland5
31 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 26.6 MB of archives. After unpacking 1,365 kB will be freed.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 libkf5xmlgui5 : Depends: qtbase-abi-5-10-0 which is a virtual package,
provided by:
                          - libqt5core5a (5.10.1+dfsg-7), but 5.11.1+dfsg-6
is to be installed

The following actions will resolve these dependencies:

      Keep the following packages at their current version:
1)      libqt5core5a [5.10.1+dfsg-7 (now)]
2)      libqt5dbus5 [5.10.1+dfsg-7 (now)]
3)      libqt5gui5 [5.10.1+dfsg-7 (now)]
4)      libqt5network5 [5.10.1+dfsg-7 (now)]
5)      libqt5positioning5 [5.10.1+dfsg-3 (now)]
6)      libqt5printsupport5 [5.10.1+dfsg-7 (now)]
7)      libqt5qml5 [5.10.1-4 (now)]
8)      libqt5quick5 [5.10.1-4 (now)]
9)      libqt5quickcontrols2-5 [5.10.1-2 (now)]
10)     libqt5quicktemplates2-5 [5.10.1-2 (now)]
11)     libqt5quickwidgets5 [5.10.1-4 (now)]
12)     libqt5script5 [5.10.1+dfsg-2 (now)]
13)     libqt5sensors5 [5.10.1-3 (now)]
14)     libqt5svg5 [5.10.1-2 (now)]
15)     libqt5test5 [5.10.1+dfsg-7 (now)]
16)     libqt5texttospeech5 [5.10.1-2 (now)]
17)     libqt5waylandclient5 [5.10.1-3 (now)]
18)     libqt5waylandcompositor5 [5.10.1-3 (now)]
19)     libqt5webchannel5 [5.10.1-2 (now)]
20)     libqt5webkit5 [5.212.0~alpha2-9+b1 (now)]
21)     libqt5widgets5 [5.10.1+dfsg-7 (now)]
22)     libqt5x11extras5 [5.10.1-2 (now)]
23)     libqt5xml5 [5.10.1+dfsg-7 (now)]
24)     qml-module-qtgraphicaleffects [5.10.1-2 (now)]
25)     qml-module-qtqml-models2 [5.10.1-4 (now)]
26)     qml-module-qtquick-controls2 [5.10.1-2 (now)]
27)     qml-module-qtquick-templates2 [5.10.1-2 (now)]
28)     qml-module-qtquick-window2 [5.10.1-4 (now)]
29)     qml-module-qtquick2 [5.10.1-4 (now)]
30)     qt5-gtk-platformtheme [5.10.1+dfsg-7 (now)]
31)     qtwayland5 [5.10.1-3 (now)]



Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]  [Enter]
The following packages will NOT be UPGRADED:
  libqt5core5a{a} libqt5dbus5{a} libqt5gui5{a} libqt5network5{a}
libqt5positioning5{a}
  libqt5printsupport5{a} libqt5qml5{a} libqt5quick5{a}
libqt5quickcontrols2-5{a}
  libqt5quicktemplates2-5{a} libqt5quickwidgets5{a} libqt5script5{a}
libqt5sensors5{a}
  libqt5svg5{a} libqt5test5{a} libqt5texttospeech5{a}
libqt5waylandclient5{a}
  libqt5waylandcompositor5{a} libqt5webchannel5{a} libqt5webkit5{a}
libqt5widgets5{a}
  libqt5x11extras5{a} libqt5xml5{a} qml-module-qtgraphicaleffects{a}
qml-module-qtqml-models2{a}
  qml-module-qtquick-controls2{a} qml-module-qtquick-templates2{a}
qml-module-qtquick-window2{a}
  qml-module-qtquick2{a} qt5-gtk-platformtheme{a} qtwayland5{a}
No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed.
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 31 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 0 B will be used.

Current status: 0 (+0) broken, 31 (+0) upgradable, 58217 (+0) new.


$ sudo aptitude show libqt5core5a
Package: libqt5core5a
Version: 5.11.1+dfsg-6
State: installed (5.10.1+dfsg-7), upgrade available (5.11.1+dfsg-6)
Automatically installed: yes
Multi-Arch: same
Priority: optional
Section: libs
Maintainer: Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>
Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 5,656 k
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.25), libdouble-conversion1 (>= 2.0.0), libgcc1 (>=
1:3.4), libglib2.0-0 (>=
         2.22.0), libicu60 (>= 60.1-1~), libpcre2-16-0 (>= 10.31),
libstdc++6 (>= 5), zlib1g (>=
         1:1.1.4)
Recommends: qttranslations5-l10n
Suggests: libthai0
Breaks: libqt5scintilla2-12v5 (< 2.9.2+dfsg-2~)
Provides: qtbase-abi-5-11-0
Description: Qt 5 core module
 Qt is a cross-platform C++ application framework. Qt's primary feature is
its rich set of widgets that
 provide standard GUI functionality.

 The QtCore module contains core non-GUI functionality.
Homepage: http://qt-project.org/
Tags: role::shared-lib


What to do?

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#198039

On 27/07/18 16:09, Default User wrote:
> Debian Unstable, x86-64
[...]
> $ sudo aptitude -Pvv full-upgrade
[...]
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>   libkf5xmlgui5 : Depends: qtbase-abi-5-10-0 which is a virtual package,
> provided by:
>                            - libqt5core5a (5.10.1+dfsg-7), but 5.11.1+dfsg-6
> is to be installed
[...]
> What to do?

Wait for the Qt 5.11 transition 
<https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/qtbase-abi-5-11-0.html> to 
be completed?

When on unstable, the transition tracker is your friend:
https://release.debian.org/transitions/

Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#198040

On 27/07/18 16:44, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> On 27/07/18 16:09, Default User wrote:
>> Debian Unstable, x86-64
> [...]
>> $ sudo aptitude -Pvv full-upgrade
> [...]
>> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>>   libkf5xmlgui5 : Depends: qtbase-abi-5-10-0 which is a virtual package,
>> provided by:
>>                            - libqt5core5a (5.10.1+dfsg-7), but 
>> 5.11.1+dfsg-6
>> is to be installed
> [...]
>> What to do?
> Wait for the Qt 5.11 transition 
> <https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/qtbase-abi-5-11-0.html> to 
> be completed?
> When on unstable, the transition tracker is your friend:
> https://release.debian.org/transitions/

More specifically, I use "apt-get dist-upgrade -V", and if apt-get wants 
to remove anything that I do not think it should, I reply "n", and then 
I use "apt-get upgrade -V" instead, so that I can upgrade packages not 
blocked by an in-progress transition.

Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#198050

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Okay, thanks Ben.

I'll just wait.


On Jul 27, 2018 01:09, "Ben Caradoc-Davies" <ben@transient.nz> wrote:

On 27/07/18 16:44, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> On 27/07/18 16:09, Default User wrote:
>> Debian Unstable, x86-64
> [...]
>> $ sudo aptitude -Pvv full-upgrade
> [...]
>> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>>   libkf5xmlgui5 : Depends: qtbase-abi-5-10-0 which is a virtual package,
>> provided by:
>>                            - libqt5core5a (5.10.1+dfsg-7), but
>> 5.11.1+dfsg-6
>> is to be installed
> [...]
>> What to do?
> Wait for the Qt 5.11 transition
> <https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/qtbase-abi-5-11-0.html> to
> be completed?
> When on unstable, the transition tracker is your friend:
> https://release.debian.org/transitions/

More specifically, I use "apt-get dist-upgrade -V", and if apt-get wants
to remove anything that I do not think it should, I reply "n", and then
I use "apt-get upgrade -V" instead, so that I can upgrade packages not
blocked by an in-progress transition.


Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#198104

On 27/07/18 16:44, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> On 27/07/18 16:09, Default User wrote:
>> Debian Unstable, x86-64
> [...]
>> $ sudo aptitude -Pvv full-upgrade
> [...]
>> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>>   libkf5xmlgui5 : Depends: qtbase-abi-5-10-0 which is a virtual package,
>> provided by:
>>                            - libqt5core5a (5.10.1+dfsg-7), but 
>> 5.11.1+dfsg-6
>> is to be installed
> [...]
>> What to do?
> Wait for the Qt 5.11 transition 
> <https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/qtbase-abi-5-11-0.html> to 
> be completed?

Even though the Qt 5.11 transition is not complete, this morning it had 
advanced far enough for "apt-get dist-upgrade -V" to succeed for me 
without package removals.

Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#198107

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On Mon, Jul 30, 2018, 19:39 Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> wrote:

> On 27/07/18 16:44, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> > On 27/07/18 16:09, Default User wrote:
> >> Debian Unstable, x86-64
> > [...]
> >> $ sudo aptitude -Pvv full-upgrade
> > [...]
> >> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> >>   libkf5xmlgui5 : Depends: qtbase-abi-5-10-0 which is a virtual package,
> >> provided by:
> >>                            - libqt5core5a (5.10.1+dfsg-7), but
> >> 5.11.1+dfsg-6
> >> is to be installed
> > [...]
> >> What to do?
> > Wait for the Qt 5.11 transition
> > <https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/qtbase-abi-5-11-0.html> to
> > be completed?
>
> Even though the Qt 5.11 transition is not complete, this morning it had
> advanced far enough for "apt-get dist-upgrade -V" to succeed for me
> without package removals.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> --
> Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
> Director
> Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
> New Zealand
>

>
> Congratulations, Ben!

Glad it worked out.

As for me, I think I will just wait until the "transition" is over (or at
least this part of it) before upgrading packages with dependency issues.

When in doubt, do nothing.

:)

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#198108

On 31/07/18 12:08, Default User wrote:
> As for me, I think I will just wait until the "transition" is over (or at
> least this part of it) before upgrading packages with dependency issues.
> When in doubt, do nothing.

When I am in doubt, I simulate a dist-upgrade with:

apt-get dist-upgrade -V -s

Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#198127

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I was going to read up on:

apt-get dist-upgrade -V -s

But then today, I was able to do a full upgrade, using:

sudo aptitude -Pvv update
sudo aptitude -Pvv safe-upgrade
sudo aptitude -Pvv full-upgrade

Finally!

Now, I'm sure using:

apt-get dist-upgrade -V -s

would have worked as well, although I thought I read somewhere that mixing
apt-get and aptitude is not a good idea.

Thanks again, Ben.

And, btw . . .

dpkg?
apt-get?
aptitude?
apt?

Would Debian please just settle on one, and stick with it?





On Jul 30, 2018 8:17 PM, "Ben Caradoc-Davies" <ben@transient.nz> wrote:

On 31/07/18 12:08, Default User wrote:
> As for me, I think I will just wait until the "transition" is over (or at
> least this part of it) before upgrading packages with dependency issues.
> When in doubt, do nothing.

When I am in doubt, I simulate a dist-upgrade with:

apt-get dist-upgrade -V -s


Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#198134

On 01/08/18 11:11, Default User wrote:
> I was going to read up on:
> apt-get dist-upgrade -V -s
> But then today, I was able to do a full upgrade, using:
> sudo aptitude -Pvv update
> sudo aptitude -Pvv safe-upgrade
> sudo aptitude -Pvv full-upgrade
> Finally!
> Now, I'm sure using:
> apt-get dist-upgrade -V -s
> would have worked as well, although I thought I read somewhere that mixing
> apt-get and aptitude is not a good idea.

I do not know anything about that.

> Thanks again, Ben.
> And, btw . . .
> dpkg?
> apt-get?
> aptitude?
> apt?

synaptic? No love for synaptic?

> Would Debian please just settle on one, and stick with it?

They do different things at different levels and seem to play nicely 
together.

dpkg is the lowest level and manipulates files. apt-get will download 
them too, from various sources, and following distribution rules. apt is 
a friendlier higher-level command-line interface. aptitude is an ncurses 
frontend, good for browsing lists of packages. synaptic is like aptitude 
with a GTK frontend.

I only use dpkg and apt-get, but when I started with Debian, I used 
synaptic. I came from Red Hat / Fedora, and the only things I miss from 
rpm and yum are yum history (with atomic reverts) and the ability to 
install multiple concurrent kernel packages without the API versioning 
silliness of Debian (which cannot co-install both 4.17.6-2 and 4.17.8-1, 
for example, only one linux-image-4.17.0-1-amd64).

Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#198135

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On Jul 31, 2018 23:15, "Ben Caradoc-Davies" <ben@transient.nz> wrote:

On 01/08/18 11:11, Default User wrote:
> I was going to read up on:
> apt-get dist-upgrade -V -s
> But then today, I was able to do a full upgrade, using:
> sudo aptitude -Pvv update
> sudo aptitude -Pvv safe-upgrade
> sudo aptitude -Pvv full-upgrade
> Finally!
> Now, I'm sure using:
> apt-get dist-upgrade -V -s
> would have worked as well, although I thought I read somewhere that mixing
> apt-get and aptitude is not a good idea.

I do not know anything about that.


> Thanks again, Ben.
> And, btw . . .
> dpkg?
> apt-get?
> aptitude?
> apt?

synaptic? No love for synaptic?


> Would Debian please just settle on one, and stick with it?

They do different things at different levels and seem to play nicely
together.

dpkg is the lowest level and manipulates files. apt-get will download
them too, from various sources, and following distribution rules. apt is
a friendlier higher-level command-line interface. aptitude is an ncurses
frontend, good for browsing lists of packages. synaptic is like aptitude
with a GTK frontend.

I only use dpkg and apt-get, but when I started with Debian, I used
synaptic. I came from Red Hat / Fedora, and the only things I miss from
rpm and yum are yum history (with atomic reverts) and the ability to
install multiple concurrent kernel packages without the API versioning
silliness of Debian (which cannot co-install both 4.17.6-2 and 4.17.8-1,
for example, only one linux-image-4.17.0-1-amd64).


Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand




1) Kamaraju, thank you for the pointers to the reading material.

Time to read.

2) Ben, I didn't think to include synapticin the list until after I posted.
I don't normally think of synaptic for general package management; I
normally only use it if I am not sure what package (and dependencies) I am
looking for, or just to browse for something interesting.

I did formerly use apt-get, but now use aptitude instead, because I read
"somewhere" that aptitude has better dependency resolution.

Note: I only use command line aptitude. I find the graphical version of
aptitude to be confusing, non-intuitive, and (for me) not particularly
useful.

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#198138

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 15:14:57 +1200
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> wrote:

> On 01/08/18 11:11, Default User wrote:

> 
> synaptic? No love for synaptic?
> 
> > Would Debian please just settle on one, and stick with it?  
> 
> They do different things at different levels and seem to play nicely 
> together.
> 

Indeed. I use apt-get, aptitude, synaptic and occasionally dpkg, as the
purpose requires.

If I have time, in the situation described in this thread I use
synaptic to install whatever isn't held up. I just pick likely-looking
packages and install them, backing off if I get a list of removals.
Aptitude interactive can do exactly the same, but I'm more comfortable
with synaptic.

I do actually use upgrade-system for routine upgrades, and switch to
synaptic when necessary. On my server, I don't have synaptic, but
being stable, I don't ever see this problem, either. For a simple
installation of a package whose name I know, I use aptitude. For
upgrading an unstable that hasn't been upgraded for a few months, I'd
use apt-get, as aptitude clogs up when presented with hundreds of
packages to sort out dependencies for. For a broken package that is
beyond the abilities of the apt tools, dpkg is less intelligent and
usually brutal enough to remove it. Horses for courses...

-- 
Joe 

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#198165

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Deep thoughts:

Debian docs seem to say that apt-get is best for significant upgrades.

Why?

But that aptitude is best for daily package management.

Why?

So, if apt-get is for non-trivial upgrades, then why not for daily use?

And if aptitude is preferred for daily, use, why not for serious upgrades?

Not efficient to have multiple choices. Debian, please choose one and
deprecate the others.

I patiently await your hate mail.


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018, 03:53 Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 15:14:57 +1200
> Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> wrote:
>
> > On 01/08/18 11:11, Default User wrote:
>
> >
> > synaptic? No love for synaptic?
> >
> > > Would Debian please just settle on one, and stick with it?
> >
> > They do different things at different levels and seem to play nicely
> > together.
> >
>
> Indeed. I use apt-get, aptitude, synaptic and occasionally dpkg, as the
> purpose requires.
>
> If I have time, in the situation described in this thread I use
> synaptic to install whatever isn't held up. I just pick likely-looking
> packages and install them, backing off if I get a list of removals.
> Aptitude interactive can do exactly the same, but I'm more comfortable
> with synaptic.
>
> I do actually use upgrade-system for routine upgrades, and switch to
> synaptic when necessary. On my server, I don't have synaptic, but
> being stable, I don't ever see this problem, either. For a simple
> installation of a package whose name I know, I use aptitude. For
> upgrading an unstable that hasn't been upgraded for a few months, I'd
> use apt-get, as aptitude clogs up when presented with hundreds of
> packages to sort out dependencies for. For a broken package that is
> beyond the abilities of the apt tools, dpkg is less intelligent and
> usually brutal enough to remove it. Horses for courses...
>
> --
> Joe
>
>

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#198169

On 02/08/18 13:05, Default User wrote:
> So, if apt-get is for non-trivial upgrades, then why not for daily use?

I use it daily and for trivial upgrades.

> Not efficient to have multiple choices. Debian, please choose one and
> deprecate the others.

Debian is all about multiple choices. Debian tries to include everything 
that meets the DFSG, from choice of init system, filesystems, servers, 
to desktop. Debian is inclusive.

Choice reduces happiness:
https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy

For enhanced new-user happiness, other distributions provide more 
curated selections. Once users have become accustomed to a curated 
subset, the breadth and flexibility of Debian makes it easy to reproduce 
a selection found in a more limited distribution.

> I patiently await your hate mail.

You did not mention systemd; no hate mail for you!  ;-)

Kind regards,

-- 
Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#198174

On Thu, 2018-08-02 at 13:32 +1200, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> On 02/08/18 13:05, Default User wrote:
> > So, if apt-get is for non-trivial upgrades, then why not for daily
> > use?

In my experience, major upgrades using aptitude sometimes get seriously
bogged down resolving dependencies, whereas apt-get and apt generally
run smoothly.

I also have found it generally works better to do apt-get upgrade
followed by apt-get dist-upgrade rather than trying to do it all in one
step, and that with rare exceptions, it all comes out right in the end,
although there occasionally are oopses that require a bit of additional
effort. If there are difference between apt-get and apt other than some
of the command names, I have not noticed them, and now generally use
apt.

Tom Dial

> I use it daily and for trivial upgrades.
> 
> > Not efficient to have multiple choices. Debian, please choose one
> > and
> > deprecate the others.
> 
> Debian is all about multiple choices. Debian tries to include
> everything 
> that meets the DFSG, from choice of init system, filesystems,
> servers, 
> to desktop. Debian is inclusive.
> 
> Choice reduces happiness:
> https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy
> 
> For enhanced new-user happiness, other distributions provide more 
> curated selections. Once users have become accustomed to a curated 
> subset, the breadth and flexibility of Debian makes it easy to
> reproduce 
> a selection found in a more limited distribution.
> 
> > I patiently await your hate mail.
> 
> You did not mention systemd; no hate mail for you!  ;-)
> 
> Kind regards,
> 

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#198175

On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 21:05:48 -0400
Default User <hunguponcontent@gmail.com> wrote:

> Deep thoughts:
> 
> Debian docs seem to say that apt-get is best for significant upgrades.
> 
> Why?

Because it handles large numbers of simultaneous package upgrades
better.

> 
> But that aptitude is best for daily package management.
> 
> Why?
> 

Because it has more intelligent dependency handling, and will offer
various partial solutions when apt-get will just want to remove large
numbers of packages. When faced with hundreds of packages to sort out
dependencies for, aptitude can take a very long time to find an
answer, by which I mean hours rather than minutes.

> So, if apt-get is for non-trivial upgrades, then why not for daily
> use?
> 
> And if aptitude is preferred for daily, use, why not for serious
> upgrades?
> 
> Not efficient to have multiple choices. Debian, please choose one and
> deprecate the others.
> 
> I patiently await your hate mail.
> 

It *is* efficient to have more than one alternative. It is not
efficient to have more than one *identical* alternative, and the
various Debian package tools are not identical. Should there be only
one web browser, only one email client, etc? Only one operating system?

-- 
Joe

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