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Groups > linux.debian.user > #201982 > unrolled thread
| Started by | David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-11-02 06:50 +0100 |
| Last post | 2018-11-03 16:50 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 53 — 9 participants |
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debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-11-02 06:50 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-11-03 01:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-11-03 04:10 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-11-03 10:10 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-11-03 12:50 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-11-03 14:40 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-03 16:40 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-11-03 19:50 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-03 21:30 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-11-04 00:30 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-04 00:40 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-11-04 01:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2018-11-04 11:50 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-11-04 14:50 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-11-04 23:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-11-05 22:00 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-11-03 20:30 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-03 21:40 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-11-04 01:30 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-11-04 03:10 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-11-04 10:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-11-04 15:00 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-11-04 16:00 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-11-04 16:50 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-11-04 17:00 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-04 19:10 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-11-05 17:00 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-05 18:30 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-11-05 21:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-11-05 22:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-11-05 23:00 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-11-06 10:10 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2018-11-06 10:50 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-11-06 16:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-11-06 18:30 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-06 19:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-11-06 05:30 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-06 11:00 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2018-11-06 15:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-06 17:10 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-11-05 22:30 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-11-06 00:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-11-06 02:00 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-06 20:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2018-11-07 20:00 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-07 21:40 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-11-04 03:10 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-04 15:10 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-11-03 21:50 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-11-04 03:10 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2018-11-04 13:20 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-03 16:00 +0100
Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-11-03 16:50 +0100
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| From | Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-04 10:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQmJA-5sH-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202069 |
Le 04/11/2018 à 01:23, Steve McIntyre a écrit : > > As I just wrote elsewhere, it looks like a bug in > the security.d.o infrastructure. I'm chasing that now. Do you mean that all packages with Priority: standard and their dependencies are supposed to be present in installation CD images ?
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| From | Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-04 15:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQr6x-7S1-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202082 |
Pascal Hambourg wrote: In article <d495e992-2b66-2ecf-6219-6f8c157b7424@plouf.fr.eu.org> you write: >Le 04/11/2018 à 01:23, Steve McIntyre a écrit : >> >> As I just wrote elsewhere, it looks like a bug in >> the security.d.o infrastructure. I'm chasing that now. > >Do you mean that all packages with Priority: standard and their >dependencies are supposed to be present in installation CD images ? Correct. That's part of the design. It works well, until reality changes underneath us like this. :-) -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com "Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast." Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html
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| From | Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-04 16:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQs2B-8tp-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202096 |
Le 04/11/2018 à 14:52, Steve McIntyre a écrit : > Pascal Hambourg wrote: > In article <d495e992-2b66-2ecf-6219-6f8c157b7424@plouf.fr.eu.org> you write: >> Le 04/11/2018 à 01:23, Steve McIntyre a écrit : >>> >>> As I just wrote elsewhere, it looks like a bug in >>> the security.d.o infrastructure. I'm chasing that now. >> >> Do you mean that all packages with Priority: standard and their >> dependencies are supposed to be present in installation CD images ? > > Correct. That's part of the design. It works well, until reality > changes underneath us like this. :-) Well, if I am counting right, this is not true for the multi-arch netinst image : - 85 packages found in the main section for i386. - Only 43 packages found in the multi-arch CD image main section. Is it an exception because a netinst image is not supposed to be used without a mirror ?
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-04 16:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQsP0-xe-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202099 |
On Sun 04 Nov 2018 at 15:51:21 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > Le 04/11/2018 à 14:52, Steve McIntyre a écrit : > > Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > In article <d495e992-2b66-2ecf-6219-6f8c157b7424@plouf.fr.eu.org> you write: > > > Le 04/11/2018 à 01:23, Steve McIntyre a écrit : > > > > > > > > As I just wrote elsewhere, it looks like a bug in > > > > the security.d.o infrastructure. I'm chasing that now. > > > > > > Do you mean that all packages with Priority: standard and their > > > dependencies are supposed to be present in installation CD images ? > > > > Correct. That's part of the design. It works well, until reality > > changes underneath us like this. :-) > > Well, if I am counting right, this is not true for the multi-arch > netinst image : > - 85 packages found in the main section for i386. > - Only 43 packages found in the multi-arch CD image main section. > > Is it an exception because a netinst image is not supposed to be used > without a mirror ? I was under the impression that "netinst" stood for "network installer", so the image only contains what's essential to bootstrap a standard system (or greater) from the network (Internet or local mirror). Cheers, David.
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| From | Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-04 17:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQsYG-AA-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202102 |
Le 04/11/2018 à 16:44, David Wright a écrit : > On Sun 04 Nov 2018 at 15:51:21 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: >> Le 04/11/2018 à 14:52, Steve McIntyre a écrit : >>> Pascal Hambourg wrote: >>>> >>>> Do you mean that all packages with Priority: standard and their >>>> dependencies are supposed to be present in installation CD images ? >>> >>> Correct. That's part of the design. It works well, until reality >>> changes underneath us like this. :-) >> >> Well, if I am counting right, this is not true for the multi-arch >> netinst image : >> - 85 packages found in the main section for i386. >> - Only 43 packages found in the multi-arch CD image main section. >> >> Is it an exception because a netinst image is not supposed to be used >> without a mirror ? > > I was under the impression that "netinst" stood for "network installer", > so the image only contains what's essential to bootstrap a standard > system (or greater) from the network (Internet or local mirror). Netinst images contain everything required to install a functional basic system even without a network.
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-04 19:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQv0u-1Zx-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202105 |
On Sun 04 Nov 2018 at 16:53:19 +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote: > Le 04/11/2018 à 16:44, David Wright a écrit : > > On Sun 04 Nov 2018 at 15:51:21 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > Le 04/11/2018 à 14:52, Steve McIntyre a écrit : > > > > Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Do you mean that all packages with Priority: standard and their > > > > > dependencies are supposed to be present in installation CD images ? > > > > > > > > Correct. That's part of the design. It works well, until reality > > > > changes underneath us like this. :-) > > > > > > Well, if I am counting right, this is not true for the multi-arch > > > netinst image : > > > - 85 packages found in the main section for i386. > > > - Only 43 packages found in the multi-arch CD image main section. > > > > > > Is it an exception because a netinst image is not supposed to be used > > > without a mirror ? > > > > I was under the impression that "netinst" stood for "network installer", > > so the image only contains what's essential to bootstrap a standard > > system (or greater) from the network (Internet or local mirror). > > Netinst images contain everything required to install a functional basic > system even without a network. An interesting historical fact (at least, I hope it is interesting!) is that prior to Debian 6.x.x the standard utilities were obtained over the internet or from a local mirror. The impression which David Wright gained from the name "netinst" would have been correct on lenny. -- Brian.
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-05 17:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQPse-6Mq-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202105 |
On Sun 04 Nov 2018 at 16:53:19 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > Le 04/11/2018 à 16:44, David Wright a écrit : > > On Sun 04 Nov 2018 at 15:51:21 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > Le 04/11/2018 à 14:52, Steve McIntyre a écrit : > > > > Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Do you mean that all packages with Priority: standard and their > > > > > dependencies are supposed to be present in installation CD images ? > > > > > > > > Correct. That's part of the design. It works well, until reality > > > > changes underneath us like this. :-) > > > > > > Well, if I am counting right, this is not true for the multi-arch > > > netinst image : > > > - 85 packages found in the main section for i386. > > > - Only 43 packages found in the multi-arch CD image main section. > > > > > > Is it an exception because a netinst image is not supposed to be used > > > without a mirror ? > > > > I was under the impression that "netinst" stood for "network installer", > > so the image only contains what's essential to bootstrap a standard > > system (or greater) from the network (Internet or local mirror). > > Netinst images contain everything required to install a functional > basic system even without a network. Sure, except for the fact that I don't know how your "functional basic system" is defined. But I am assuming that it's something less than your system (above) with "all packages with Priority: standard and their dependencies", which is designed to provide "a reasonably small but not too limited char-mode system" (Debian Policy Manual). The Installation Guide quantifies this difference as approximately 187MB of disk space, using *their* definition of "minimal base installation", which is installed by not selecting "standard system utilities". What it is, exactly, that you get by installing from netinst without any Internet connection whatsoever would, I think, require an experiment. I'm not in a situation to try that as (a) I'm not at home, (b) I only have this laptop, (c) the images on it are i386 and amd64 single architecture ones, (d) I've no wherewithal to back it up. Whatever it is, it's what I was referring to as the "bootstrap" system (above). It seems that Brian is more familiar with its recent incarnations; it's some years since I played around with methods of minimising Internet throughput during installation. Cheers, David.
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-05 18:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQQRj-7Jj-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202149 |
On Mon 05 Nov 2018 at 10:51:34 -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Sun 04 Nov 2018 at 16:53:19 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > Le 04/11/2018 à 16:44, David Wright a écrit : > > > On Sun 04 Nov 2018 at 15:51:21 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > > Le 04/11/2018 à 14:52, Steve McIntyre a écrit : > > > > > Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you mean that all packages with Priority: standard and their > > > > > > dependencies are supposed to be present in installation CD images ? > > > > > > > > > > Correct. That's part of the design. It works well, until reality > > > > > changes underneath us like this. :-) > > > > > > > > Well, if I am counting right, this is not true for the multi-arch > > > > netinst image : > > > > - 85 packages found in the main section for i386. > > > > - Only 43 packages found in the multi-arch CD image main section. > > > > > > > > Is it an exception because a netinst image is not supposed to be used > > > > without a mirror ? > > > > > > I was under the impression that "netinst" stood for "network installer", > > > so the image only contains what's essential to bootstrap a standard > > > system (or greater) from the network (Internet or local mirror). > > > > Netinst images contain everything required to install a functional > > basic system even without a network. > > Sure, except for the fact that I don't know how your "functional basic > system" is defined. But I am assuming that it's something less than > your system (above) with "all packages with Priority: standard and > their dependencies", which is designed to provide "a reasonably small > but not too limited char-mode system" (Debian Policy Manual). > > The Installation Guide quantifies this difference as approximately > 187MB of disk space, using *their* definition of "minimal base > installation", which is installed by not selecting "standard system > utilities". > > What it is, exactly, that you get by installing from netinst without > any Internet connection whatsoever would, I think, require an > experiment. I'm not in a situation to try that as (a) I'm not at home, > (b) I only have this laptop, (c) the images on it are i386 and amd64 > single architecture ones, (d) I've no wherewithal to back it up. > Whatever it is, it's what I was referring to as the "bootstrap" > system (above). It seems that Brian is more familiar with its recent > incarnations; it's some years since I played around with methods of > minimising Internet throughput during installation. There are two situations: 1. No network is set up: everything comes from the image. 2. The network fails during the installation: no resolution of a URI happens and d-i waits about for a while before continuing as in 1. -- Brian.
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| From | Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-05 21:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQTvP-TW-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202149 |
Le 05/11/2018 à 16:51, David Wright a écrit : > On Sun 04 Nov 2018 at 16:53:19 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: >> Le 04/11/2018 à 16:44, David Wright a écrit : >>> >>> I was under the impression that "netinst" stood for "network installer", >>> so the image only contains what's essential to bootstrap a standard >>> system (or greater) from the network (Internet or local mirror). >> >> Netinst images contain everything required to install a functional >> basic system even without a network. > > Sure, except for the fact that I don't know how your "functional basic > system" is defined. But I am assuming that it's something less than > your system (above) with "all packages with Priority: standard and > their dependencies", which is designed to provide "a reasonably small > but not too limited char-mode system" (Debian Policy Manual). Not much less than this. Some "standard" packages may be missing. > What it is, exactly, that you get by installing from netinst without > any Internet connection whatsoever would, I think, require an > experiment. Been there, done that. As I wrote above. PS : aren't you confusing "netinst" with "netboot", which requires a network connection to a mirror ?
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-05 22:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQUrT-1sM-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202164 |
On Mon, Nov 05, 2018 at 09:11:46PM +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote: >PS : aren't you confusing "netinst" with "netboot", which requires a >network connection to a mirror ? There used to be bootable business card netinst images that had almost nothing other than the kernel and the installer, and needed a mirror to get even a minimally functional system. I think the kernel+installer got too porky for those images in the last couple of releases.
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| From | Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-05 23:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wQV4B-1Hi-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202166 |
Michael Stone wrote: >On Mon, Nov 05, 2018 at 09:11:46PM +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote: >>PS : aren't you confusing "netinst" with "netboot", which requires a >>network connection to a mirror ? > >There used to be bootable business card netinst images that had almost >nothing other than the kernel and the installer, and needed a mirror to >get even a minimally functional system. I think the kernel+installer got >too porky for those images in the last couple of releases. In the end, they were too fragile and caused a support nightmare so we dropped them. People didn't understand that they were very tightly tied to the archive, and if anything changed (e.g. a point release) things would fail. The images were also already too big to fit on a business-card sized CD. Instead, we now see people struggling with netboot setups that are similarly fragile as things change. :-( -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com "Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast." Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-06 10:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wR5wZ-8aS-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202166 |
On 2018-11-05, Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> wrote: > On Mon, Nov 05, 2018 at 09:11:46PM +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote: >>PS : aren't you confusing "netinst" with "netboot", which requires a >>network connection to a mirror ? > > There used to be bootable business card netinst images that had almost > nothing other than the kernel and the installer, and needed a mirror to > get even a minimally functional system. I think the kernel+installer got > too porky for those images in the last couple of releases. > > I never knew what a bootable business card was so I avoided those. -- “If a person is not talented enough to be a novelist, not smart enough to be a lawyer, and his hands are too shaky to perform operations, he becomes a journalist.” --Norman Mailer
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| From | mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-06 10:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wR69H-8na-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202179 |
On 2018-11-06 09:03, Curt wrote: > On 2018-11-05, Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> wrote: >> On Mon, Nov 05, 2018 at 09:11:46PM +0100, Pascal Hambourg wrote: >>> PS : aren't you confusing "netinst" with "netboot", which requires a >>> network connection to a mirror ? >> >> There used to be bootable business card netinst images that had almost >> nothing other than the kernel and the installer, and needed a mirror >> to >> get even a minimally functional system. I think the kernel+installer >> got >> too porky for those images in the last couple of releases. >> >> > > I never knew what a bootable business card was so I avoided those. they are a little less bulky than a USB stick, CD drives have the smaller ledge they fit but at 32Mb small for something that works. Slitaz still fits on one I think -- Key ID 4BFEBB31
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-06 16:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wRbj3-392-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202179 |
On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 09:03:59AM +0000, Curt wrote: >I never knew what a bootable business card was so I avoided those. If you trim a cd so it's rectangle you end up with a business-card size disc which holds about 50MB. Their main drawbacks are that 1) nobody has a cd drive anymore and 2) people who do have cd drives that are slot-loaders may lose the bootable business card in the slot and get annoyed. That said, the bootable business card image is the smallest download available to install debian without having to mess with a netboot configuration. You can still use the mini iso with a normal cd, or via virtual drive, etc. I used to always keep an 80mm (185MB) installer CD-R in my bag back before it made more sense to just use a thumb drive. It turns out I just couldn't remember where they were, and they do still exist: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-06 18:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wRdkR-4jr-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202195 |
On 2018-11-06, Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> wrote: > > That said, the bootable business card image is the smallest download > available to install debian without having to mess with a netboot > configuration. You can still use the mini iso with a normal cd, or via > virtual drive, etc. I used to always keep an 80mm (185MB) installer CD-R > in my bag back before it made more sense to just use a thumb drive. > > It turns out I just couldn't remember where they were, and they do still > exist: > http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ > I'll bite: if the mini.iso requires no netboot, why does it find itself confined to the netboot directory? If they stopped calling it a 'bootable business card' and put it alongside the netinstall iso as the leanest competition around I just might use the mini. Then again I guess if you're downloading it you're downloading it (whether the package is integrated into the iso itself or retrieved 'on the fly') so it's six of one, half a dozen of the other, in the end. -- “If a person is not talented enough to be a novelist, not smart enough to be a lawyer, and his hands are too shaky to perform operations, he becomes a journalist.” --Norman Mailer
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-06 19:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wRe7f-4P8-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202204 |
On Tue 06 Nov 2018 at 17:25:16 +0000, Curt wrote: > On 2018-11-06, Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> wrote: > > > > That said, the bootable business card image is the smallest download > > available to install debian without having to mess with a netboot > > configuration. You can still use the mini iso with a normal cd, or via > > virtual drive, etc. I used to always keep an 80mm (185MB) installer CD-R > > in my bag back before it made more sense to just use a thumb drive. > > > > It turns out I just couldn't remember where they were, and they do still > > exist: > > http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ > > > > I'll bite: if the mini.iso requires no netboot, why does it find itself > confined to the netboot directory? It is built as part of the netboot build, which is the reponsibility of the Installer team - not the CD team. > If they stopped calling it a 'bootable business card' and put it > alongside the netinstall iso as the leanest competition around I just > might use the mini. Then again I guess if you're downloading it you're > downloading it (whether the package is integrated into the iso itself or > retrieved 'on the fly') so it's six of one, half a dozen of the other, > in the end. I've never heard it called a 'bootable business card image' (except here). -- Brian.
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-06 05:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wR1a1-5wx-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202164 |
On Mon 05 Nov 2018 at 21:11:46 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > Le 05/11/2018 à 16:51, David Wright a écrit : > > On Sun 04 Nov 2018 at 16:53:19 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > Le 04/11/2018 à 16:44, David Wright a écrit : > > > > > > > > I was under the impression that "netinst" stood for "network installer", > > > > so the image only contains what's essential to bootstrap a standard > > > > system (or greater) from the network (Internet or local mirror). > > > > > > Netinst images contain everything required to install a functional > > > basic system even without a network. > > > > Sure, except for the fact that I don't know how your "functional basic > > system" is defined. But I am assuming that it's something less than > > your system (above) with "all packages with Priority: standard and > > their dependencies", which is designed to provide "a reasonably small > > but not too limited char-mode system" (Debian Policy Manual). > > Not much less than this. Some "standard" packages may be missing. It certainly appeared so from my dpkg -l listings from various installation stages. > > What it is, exactly, that you get by installing from netinst without > > any Internet connection whatsoever would, I think, require an > > experiment. > > Been there, done that. As I wrote above. I couldn't determine whether you'd actually installed a system in the manner Brian just suggested (which is what I would do), or merely examined packages in the pool or Packages file (which is all that I was able to do). > PS : aren't you confusing "netinst" with "netboot", which requires a > network connection to a mirror ? I've never used netboot as it's too complicated to bother with in my situation. In addition, I always need non-free firmware to run all the wired and wireless NICs. Cheers, David.
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-06 11:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wR6jo-8qp-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202177 |
On Mon 05 Nov 2018 at 23:29:16 -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Mon 05 Nov 2018 at 21:11:46 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > PS : aren't you confusing "netinst" with "netboot", which requires a > > network connection to a mirror ? > > I've never used netboot as it's too complicated to bother with in > my situation. In addition, I always need non-free firmware to run > all the wired and wireless NICs. The mini.iso is functionally equivalent to netbooting d-i. Using it is no more complicated than using a netinst iso. and non-free firmware can be put on the medium. -- Brian.
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-06 15:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wRan0-2Am-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202181 |
On Tue 06 Nov 2018 at 09:57:03 (+0000), Brian wrote: > On Mon 05 Nov 2018 at 23:29:16 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > On Mon 05 Nov 2018 at 21:11:46 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > > > PS : aren't you confusing "netinst" with "netboot", which requires a > > > network connection to a mirror ? > > > > I've never used netboot as it's too complicated to bother with in > > my situation. In addition, I always need non-free firmware to run > > all the wired and wireless NICs. > > The mini.iso is functionally equivalent to netbooting d-i. Using it is > no more complicated than using a netinst iso. Eh? Why would I want to set up a TFTP service just to install via netboot on the two PCs that can boot from the NIC when I've already downloaded a netinst image for the rest? > and non-free firmware can > be put on the medium. But it's already on the netinst firmware image. Anyway, I think you can see that I'm hardly likely to confuse netinst with netboot, which is the point I was making. Cheers, David.
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-06 17:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: debian-9.5.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso missing files for install without mirror |
| Message-ID | <wRc5r-3EH-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #202188 |
On Tue 06 Nov 2018 at 09:19:22 -0500, David Wright wrote: > On Tue 06 Nov 2018 at 09:57:03 (+0000), Brian wrote: > > On Mon 05 Nov 2018 at 23:29:16 -0500, David Wright wrote: > > > On Mon 05 Nov 2018 at 21:11:46 (+0100), Pascal Hambourg wrote: > > > > > > > PS : aren't you confusing "netinst" with "netboot", which requires a > > > > network connection to a mirror ? > > > > > > I've never used netboot as it's too complicated to bother with in > > > my situation. In addition, I always need non-free firmware to run > > > all the wired and wireless NICs. > > > > The mini.iso is functionally equivalent to netbooting d-i. Using it is > > no more complicated than using a netinst iso. > > Eh? Why would I want to set up a TFTP service just to install via > netboot on the two PCs that can boot from the NIC when I've already > downloaded a netinst image for the rest? You don't, but no TFTP is needed with the mini.iso. I was only drawing the list's attention to its existence; it has its uses. > > and non-free firmware can > > be put on the medium. > > But it's already on the netinst firmware image. > > Anyway, I think you can see that I'm hardly likely to confuse netinst > with netboot, which is the point I was making. There was no implication in my response that you were. -- Brian.
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