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Permission issues - operator error?

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  Permission issues - operator error? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-09-22 15:40 +0200
    Re: Permission issues - operator error? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-09-22 16:00 +0200
      Re: Permission issues - operator error? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-09-22 16:30 +0200
        Re: Permission issues - operator error? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-09-22 22:50 +0200
          Re: Permission issues - operator error? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-09-23 02:40 +0200
            Re: Permission issues - operator error? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-09-23 05:00 +0200
              Re: Permission issues - operator error? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-09-23 11:30 +0200
                Re: Permission issues - operator error? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-09-23 15:30 +0200
                  Re: Permission issues - operator error? Tom Furie <tom@furie.org.uk> - 2018-09-23 15:50 +0200
                    Re: Permission issues - operator error? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-09-23 16:20 +0200
                      Re: Permission issues - operator error? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-09-23 17:40 +0200
                        Re: Permission issues - operator error? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-09-23 20:20 +0200
                          Re: Permission issues - operator error? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-09-23 20:40 +0200
                            Re: Permission issues - operator error? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-09-23 20:40 +0200
                              Re: Permission issues - operator error? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2018-09-24 03:40 +0200
                          Re: Permission issues - operator error? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2018-09-23 21:10 +0200
                  Re: Permission issues - operator error? Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2018-09-24 05:10 +0200
    Underlying problems - was [Re: Permission issues - operator error?] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-09-24 18:40 +0200

#200432 — Permission issues - operator error?

I'm assuming operator problem as I get same symptoms on:
    two laptops each running different Debian releases (6.8, 9.1).
      [both using MATE desktop]
    two different media (32Gb USB flash, 240 Gb USB SSD).

Logged in as 'richard' I use Gparted (providing root password) to 
repartition the drive. As I'm diagnosing problems I do a power off/on 
cycle to force a cold boot.

After login in as either 'richard' or 'root' permissions are displayed 
as "could not be determined".

As 'root' I copy a directory from a random partition of the hard drive.
Permissions for the directory and its contents are displayed as 'root'.
I change the folder ownership to 'richard' clicking on apply permissions 
to enclosed files.

They enclosed directories and files are still owned by 'root' :<

Ideas?
With >50 years test/troubleshooting in various fields, do I have a blind 
spot?
(P.S. I've even written test procedures - interesting experience ;)

TIA

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#200435

Richard Owlett wrote:
> I'm assuming operator problem as I get same symptoms on:
>     two laptops each running different Debian releases (6.8, 9.1).
>       [both using MATE desktop]
>     two different media (32Gb USB flash, 240 Gb USB SSD).
>
> Logged in as 'richard' I use Gparted (providing root password) to 
> repartition the drive. As I'm diagnosing problems I do a power off/on 
> cycle to force a cold boot.
>
> After login in as either 'richard' or 'root' permissions are displayed 
> as "could not be determined".

Sounds like maybe UID issues between the installs.


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#200436

On 09/22/2018 08:44 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I'm assuming operator problem as I get same symptoms on:
>>      two laptops each running different Debian releases (6.8, 9.1).
>>        [both using MATE desktop]
>>      two different media (32Gb USB flash, 240 Gb USB SSD).
>>
>> Logged in as 'richard' I use Gparted (providing root password) to
>> repartition the drive. As I'm diagnosing problems I do a power off/on
>> cycle to force a cold boot.
>>
>> After login in as either 'richard' or 'root' permissions are displayed
>> as "could not be determined".
> 
> Sounds like maybe UID issues between the installs.
> 

I'm safe from that one on two counts.

I did the partitioning and permission steps on the same installation 
tests on the same combination of hardware and OS.

Since Squeeze I've followed the same installation routine. I allow login 
as root and answer the prompt for user the same (i.e. "Richard Owlett).
Once in the past I had cause to investigate UID's among installs. They 
were always the same.

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#200452

On 9/22/18 7:28 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 09/22/2018 08:44 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> I'm assuming operator problem as I get same symptoms on:
>>>      two laptops each running different Debian releases (6.8, 9.1).
>>>        [both using MATE desktop]
>>>      two different media (32Gb USB flash, 240 Gb USB SSD).
>>>
>>> Logged in as 'richard' I use Gparted (providing root password) to
>>> repartition the drive. As I'm diagnosing problems I do a power off/on
>>> cycle to force a cold boot.
>>>
>>> After login in as either 'richard' or 'root' permissions are displayed
>>> as "could not be determined".
>>
>> Sounds like maybe UID issues between the installs.
>>
> 
> I'm safe from that one on two counts.
> 
> I did the partitioning and permission steps on the same installation 
> tests on the same combination of hardware and OS.
> 
> Since Squeeze I've followed the same installation routine. I allow login 
> as root and answer the prompt for user the same (i.e. "Richard Owlett).
> Once in the past I had cause to investigate UID's among installs. They 
> were always the same.

Please post a console session that demonstrates what you are talking about.


David

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#200460

On 09/22/2018 03:40 PM, David Christensen wrote:
> On 9/22/18 7:28 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 09/22/2018 08:44 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> I'm assuming operator problem as I get same symptoms on:
>>>>      two laptops each running different Debian releases (6.8, 9.1).
>>>>        [both using MATE desktop]
>>>>      two different media (32Gb USB flash, 240 Gb USB SSD).
>>>>
>>>> Logged in as 'richard' I use Gparted (providing root password) to
>>>> repartition the drive. As I'm diagnosing problems I do a power off/on
>>>> cycle to force a cold boot.
>>>>
>>>> After login in as either 'richard' or 'root' permissions are displayed
>>>> as "could not be determined".
>>>
>>> Sounds like maybe UID issues between the installs.
>>>
>>
>> I'm safe from that one on two counts.
>>
>> I did the partitioning and permission steps on the same installation 
>> tests on the same combination of hardware and OS.
>>
>> Since Squeeze I've followed the same installation routine. I allow 
>> login as root and answer the prompt for user the same (i.e. "Richard 
>> Owlett).
>> Once in the past I had cause to investigate UID's among installs. They 
>> were always the same.
> 
> Please post a console session that demonstrates what you are talking about.
> 

I've spent some time today working towards that. Been going thru some 
CLI oriented tutorials. One of the problems when doing too much via GUI. 
It hides important details.

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#200463

On 9/22/18 5:30 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 09/22/2018 03:40 PM, David Christensen wrote:
>> On 9/22/18 7:28 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>> On 09/22/2018 08:44 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>>> I'm assuming operator problem as I get same symptoms on:
>>>>>      two laptops each running different Debian releases (6.8, 9.1).
>>>>>        [both using MATE desktop]
>>>>>      two different media (32Gb USB flash, 240 Gb USB SSD).
>>>>>
>>>>> Logged in as 'richard' I use Gparted (providing root password) to
>>>>> repartition the drive. As I'm diagnosing problems I do a power off/on
>>>>> cycle to force a cold boot.
>>>>>
>>>>> After login in as either 'richard' or 'root' permissions are displayed
>>>>> as "could not be determined".
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like maybe UID issues between the installs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm safe from that one on two counts.
>>>
>>> I did the partitioning and permission steps on the same installation 
>>> tests on the same combination of hardware and OS.
>>>
>>> Since Squeeze I've followed the same installation routine. I allow 
>>> login as root and answer the prompt for user the same (i.e. "Richard 
>>> Owlett).
>>> Once in the past I had cause to investigate UID's among installs. 
>>> They were always the same.
>>
>> Please post a console session that demonstrates what you are talking 
>> about.
>>
> 
> I've spent some time today working towards that. Been going thru some 
> CLI oriented tutorials. One of the problems when doing too much via GUI. 
> It hides important details.

Command-line interfaces and console sessions work the best for mailing 
lists.


But if you are experiencing problems with a GUI and cannot reproduce 
them from a terminal, then you need a screen capture tool and a web 
server where you can post the pictures/ video.


David

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#200470

On 09/22/2018 09:57 PM, David Christensen wrote:
> On 9/22/18 5:30 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 09/22/2018 03:40 PM, David Christensen wrote:
>>> On 9/22/18 7:28 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> On 09/22/2018 08:44 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>>>> Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>>>> I'm assuming operator problem as I get same symptoms on:
>>>>>>      two laptops each running different Debian releases (6.8, 9.1).
>>>>>>        [both using MATE desktop]
>>>>>>      two different media (32Gb USB flash, 240 Gb USB SSD).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Logged in as 'richard' I use Gparted (providing root password) to
>>>>>> repartition the drive. As I'm diagnosing problems I do a power off/on
>>>>>> cycle to force a cold boot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After login in as either 'richard' or 'root' permissions are 
>>>>>> displayed
>>>>>> as "could not be determined".
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like maybe UID issues between the installs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm safe from that one on two counts.
>>>>
>>>> I did the partitioning and permission steps on the same installation 
>>>> tests on the same combination of hardware and OS.
>>>>
>>>> Since Squeeze I've followed the same installation routine. I allow 
>>>> login as root and answer the prompt for user the same (i.e. "Richard 
>>>> Owlett).
>>>> Once in the past I had cause to investigate UID's among installs. 
>>>> They were always the same.
>>>
>>> Please post a console session that demonstrates what you are talking 
>>> about.
>>>
>>
>> I've spent some time today working towards that. Been going thru some 
>> CLI oriented tutorials. One of the problems when doing too much via 
>> GUI. It hides important details.
> 
> Command-line interfaces and console sessions work the best for mailing 
> lists.

Yes. They also work well for proving operator problems ;/
> 
> But if you are experiencing problems with a GUI and cannot reproduce 
> them from a terminal, then you need a screen capture tool and a web 
> server where you can post the pictures/ video.

Not sure the GUI worth it.
I'm not sure how much time I'll have today.
Will have time tomorrow.
Thanks.

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#200485

On 09/23/2018 04:18 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 09/22/2018 09:57 PM, David Christensen wrote:
>> On 9/22/18 5:30 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
[snip]
>> Command-line interfaces and console sessions work the best for mailing 
>> lists.
> 
> Yes. They also work well for proving operator problems ;/
>>[snip]

This is my initial try. Going out in a few minutes.
What is my error?

richard@debian8-6:~$ su
Password:
root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # purge device
root@debian8-6:/home/richard# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=4M
dd: error writing ‘/dev/sdb’: No space left on device
7687+0 records in
7686+0 records out
32237420544 bytes (32 GB) copied, 2656.09 s, 12.1 MB/s
root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # force UID/GID to 'richard', label 
device, accept standard defaults
root@debian8-6:/home/richard# mkfs.ext4 root_owner=1000:1000 -L 
2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1
mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
mkfs.ext4: invalid blocks '/dev/sdb1' on device 'root_owner=1000:1000'
root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # is all ok
root@debian8-6:/home/richard# e2fsck -fy /dev/sdb1
e2fsck 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
e2fsck: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/sdb1
Possibly non-existent device?
root@debian8-6:/home/richard#
root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # create partition table with Gparted
root@debian8-6:/home/richard# mkfs.ext4 root_owner=1000:1000 -L 
2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1
mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
mkfs.ext4: invalid blocks '/dev/sdb1' on device 'root_owner=1000:1000'
root@debian8-6:/home/richard# e2fsck -fy /dev/sdb1
e2fsck 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
e2fsck: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/sdb1
Possibly non-existent device?
root@debian8-6:/home/richard#

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#200488

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 08:20:10AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # purge device
> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=4M

> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # force UID/GID to 'richard', label device,
> accept standard defaults
> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# mkfs.ext4 root_owner=1000:1000 -L
> 2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1
> mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
> mkfs.ext4: invalid blocks '/dev/sdb1' on device 'root_owner=1000:1000'

> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # is all ok
> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# e2fsck -fy /dev/sdb1
> e2fsck 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
> e2fsck: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/sdb1
> Possibly non-existent device?

> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # create partition table with Gparted
> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# mkfs.ext4 root_owner=1000:1000 -L
> 2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1
> mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
> mkfs.ext4: invalid blocks '/dev/sdb1' on device 'root_owner=1000:1000'
> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# e2fsck -fy /dev/sdb1
> e2fsck 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
> e2fsck: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/sdb1
> Possibly non-existent device?

You have overwritten the whole sdb device with zeros, including the
partition table. You'll have to recreate your partitions before you can
create filesystems on them.

Cheers,
Tom

-- 
BOFH excuse #431:

Borg implants are failing

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#200491

On 09/23/2018 08:26 AM, Tom Furie wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 08:20:10AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
>> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # purge device
>> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=4M
> 
>> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # force UID/GID to 'richard', label device,
>> accept standard defaults
>> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# mkfs.ext4 root_owner=1000:1000 -L
>> 2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1
>> mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
>> mkfs.ext4: invalid blocks '/dev/sdb1' on device 'root_owner=1000:1000'
> 
>> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # is all ok
>> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# e2fsck -fy /dev/sdb1
>> e2fsck 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
>> e2fsck: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/sdb1
>> Possibly non-existent device?
> 
>> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # create partition table with Gparted
>> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# mkfs.ext4 root_owner=1000:1000 -L
>> 2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1
>> mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
>> mkfs.ext4: invalid blocks '/dev/sdb1' on device 'root_owner=1000:1000'
>> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# e2fsck -fy /dev/sdb1
>> e2fsck 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
>> e2fsck: No such file or directory while trying to open /dev/sdb1
>> Possibly non-existent device?
> 
> You have overwritten the whole sdb device with zeros, including the
> partition table. You'll have to recreate your partitions before you can
> create filesystems on them.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom
> 

I had thought I had created a partition table with Gparted.
It had not reported any error.
I was able to use it to create ext4 partition.

root@debian8-6:/home/richard# e2fsck -fy /dev/sdb1
e2fsck 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
Pass 1: Checking inodes, blocks, and sizes
Pass 2: Checking directory structure
Pass 3: Checking directory connectivity
Pass 4: Checking reference counts
Pass 5: Checking group summary information
testagain: 11/1970416 files (0.0% non-contiguous), 167682/7870208 blocks
root@debian8-6:/home/richard#

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#200496

Hello,

On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 09:11:44AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I had thought I had created a partition table with Gparted.

Nowhere in your previously posted session did you show yourself
calling gparted or any other partitioning tool.

Cheers,
Andy

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#200507

On 09/23/2018 10:32 AM, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 09:11:44AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I had thought I had created a partition table with Gparted.
> 
> Nowhere in your previously posted session did you show yourself
> calling gparted or any other partitioning tool.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andy

Is this not creating a partition?
> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# mkfs.ext4 root_owner=1000:1000 -L 2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1
> mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014) 

My original post was to state that Gparted was not having its expected 
result.

I want to use CLI to take a USB connected drive from a known state
[i.e. dd if=/dev/zero ...] to an ext4 partitioned device which presents 
itself as owned by 'richard' of group 'richard'.

My next step is to read up on whatever CLI tool installs a partition table.

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#200508

On 9/23/18 11:18 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Is this not creating a partition?
>> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# mkfs.ext4 root_owner=1000:1000 -L 
>> 2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1

No.  The "mkfs.ext4" command creates a file system on a pre-existing 
device or partition (e.g. /dev/sdb1).


> I want to use CLI to take a USB connected drive from a known state
> [i.e. dd if=/dev/zero ...] to an ext4 partitioned device 

I use dd(1) to erase devices, as you already did.  Erasing the first 
megabyte and the last megabyte should meet your needs.


I use parted(8) to create partition tables and to create partitions. 
Creating an MS-DOS partition table and creating one primary partition 
using 100% of the available space should meet your needs.


I use mkfs(8) (or a file system-specific sub-command) to create file 
systems, as you already tried.  'man mkfs.ext' redirects to mke2fs(8); 
that should meet your needs.


After you have done the above steps, you will need to create a mount 
point using mkdir(1), and then mount the file system using mount(8).


> which presents 
> itself as owned by 'richard' of group 'richard'.

Once the file system is mounted, it may or may not be possible to change 
the owner and group using chown(1).  (I typically create a sub-directory 
named after the user, and change the owner and group of that sub-directory.)


David

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#200510

On 9/23/18 11:33 AM, David Christensen wrote:
> After you have done the above steps, you will need to create a mount 
> point using mkdir(1), and then mount the file system using mount(8).

If you are using a USB device and have a suitable desktop, you might be 
able to unplug the device, plug it in, and the desktop will 
automagically show an icon that you can click on to mount the file 
system and/or the desktop will automagically mount the file system.


David

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#200522

On 9/23/18 11:38 AM, David Christensen wrote:
> On 9/23/18 11:33 AM, David Christensen wrote:
>> After you have done the above steps, you will need to create a mount 
>> point using mkdir(1), and then mount the file system using mount(8).
> 
> If you are using a USB device and have a suitable desktop, you might be 
> able to unplug the device, plug it in, and the desktop will 
> automagically show an icon that you can click on to mount the file 
> system and/or the desktop will automagically mount the file system.

Be sure to unmount the USB device file system before unplugging the USB 
device:

1.  From a terminal, use umount(8).

2.  From a desktop, navigate away from USB device file system in all 
apps, terminals, etc., and/or close such apps;  then right click on 
desktop device icon and choose unmount from content menu, right click on 
file manager device entry and choose unmount, etc..


David

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#200512

Hello,

On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 01:18:25PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Is this not creating a partition?
> >root@debian8-6:/home/richard# mkfs.ext4 root_owner=1000:1000 -L 2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1
> >mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)

Nope. The error you got from this command is consistent with
/dev/sdb1 not existing. Because you did not create that partition
first.

The mkfs commands create a filesystem on an existing block device.
That device could be a partition, whole disk or even a loopback
file. mkfs doesn't create the device itself.

Try using fdisk or similar, if you are looking for a command line
partition editor.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#200524

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 24/09/18 1:20 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# # force UID/GID to 'richard', label
> device, accept standard defaults
> root@debian8-6:/home/richard# mkfs.ext4 root_owner=1000:1000 -L
> 2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1
> mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)
> mkfs.ext4: invalid blocks '/dev/sdb1' on device 'root_owner=1000:1000'

In addition to trying to create a filesystem on a partition that doesn't
yet exist, as others have said, a quick glance at that error message
suggests you're putting your options in the wrong places.

The man page suggests you probably want:

mkfs.ext4 -E root_owner=1000:1000 -L 2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1

(once you've created /dev/sdb1)

Note the -E for extended options.

Richard

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#200550 — Underlying problems - was [Re: Permission issues - operator error?]

On 09/22/2018 08:34 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I'm assuming operator problem as I get same symptoms on:
>     two laptops each running different Debian releases (6.8, 9.1).
>       [both using MATE desktop]
>     two different media (32Gb USB flash, 240 Gb USB SSD).
> 
> Logged in as 'richard' I use Gparted (providing root password) to 
> repartition the drive. As I'm diagnosing problems I do a power off/on 
> cycle to force a cold boot.
> 
> After login in as either 'richard' or 'root' permissions are displayed 
> as "could not be determined".

The MATE tools do not act as I expected.
I followed the directions elsewhere in this thread concluding with
>  mkfs.ext4 -E root_owner=1000:1000 -L 2018Sept23tst1 /dev/sdb1

When I allow to auto-magically mount it and then double-click its icon 
Caja displays an empty directory [as expected].
Clicking on the 'up arrow' [Open parent folder] an entity titled 
"2018Sept23tst1" is displayed. Right-clicking on the title followed by 
choosing Properties->Permissions shows it is owned by 'richard' of group 
'richard' [as intended].

*HOWEVER* right-clicking on the desktop icon titled "2018Sept23tst1" 
followed by choosing Properties->Permissions states that:
> Permissions of "2018Sept23tst1" could not be determined. 

*UNEXPECTED* result.

> 
> As 'root' I copy a directory from a random partition of the hard drive.
> Permissions for the directory and its contents are displayed as 'root'.
> I change the folder ownership to 'richard' clicking on apply permissions 
> to enclosed files.
> 
> They enclosed directories and files are still owned by 'root' :<

I'll have to do more work to document. But I have higher priority problems.

Thanks to all.



> 
> Ideas?
> With >50 years test/troubleshooting in various fields, do I have a blind 
> spot?
> (P.S. I've even written test procedures - interesting experience ;)
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
> 

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