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A long rant on Debian 9

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  A long rant on Debian 9 John <jpff@codemist.co.uk> - 2018-05-06 23:20 +0200
    Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Forest Dean Feighner <forest.feighner@gmail.com> - 2018-05-06 23:40 +0200
    Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-05-07 00:20 +0200
      Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2018-05-07 05:40 +0200
        Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-05-07 17:30 +0200
          Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-05-07 17:40 +0200
            Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2018-05-07 23:50 +0200
              Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-05-08 00:10 +0200
                Re: A long rant on Debian 9 jpff <jpff@codemist.co.uk> - 2018-05-08 18:00 +0200
              Re: minimal installation (was: A long rant on Debian 9) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-05-08 00:10 +0200
              Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2018-05-08 09:50 +0200
                Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2018-05-08 14:00 +0200
                  Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-05-08 14:40 +0200
                    Re: A long rant on Debian 9 "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2018-05-08 16:00 +0200
                    Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2018-05-08 21:00 +0200
              Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-05-08 16:00 +0200
                Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-05-08 16:10 +0200
      Re: A long rant on Debian 9 jpff <jpff@codemist.co.uk> - 2018-05-07 13:40 +0200
        Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-07 14:20 +0200
          Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-05-07 16:50 +0200
          Re: A long rant on Debian 9 jpff <jpff@codemist.co.uk> - 2018-05-07 16:50 +0200
            Re: A long rant on Debian 9 bw <bwtnguy@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-07 17:10 +0200
            Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-07 18:00 +0200
        Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 14:30 +0200
        Re: minimal installation (was: A long rant on Debian 9) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-05-07 16:50 +0200
          Re: minimal installation (was: A long rant on Debian 9) Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2018-05-08 00:10 +0200
            Re: minimal installation (was: A long rant on Debian 9) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-08 00:30 +0200
              Re: minimal installation (was: A long rant on Debian 9) Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2018-05-08 00:40 +0200
                Re: minimal installation (was: A long rant on Debian 9) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-08 01:20 +0200
                  Re: minimal installation Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2018-05-12 23:50 +0200
                    Re: minimal installation Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-05-13 00:30 +0200
              Re: minimal installation Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-05-08 02:00 +0200
                Re: minimal installation Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-08 21:00 +0200
            Re: minimal installation Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-05-08 00:30 +0200
              Re: minimal installation Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> - 2018-05-08 01:40 +0200
    Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Rick Thomas <rbthomas@pobox.com> - 2018-05-07 01:10 +0200
    Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2018-05-07 15:10 +0200
      Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2018-05-07 15:40 +0200
      Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2018-05-07 16:00 +0200
        Re: A long rant on Debian 9 jpff <jpff@codemist.co.uk> - 2018-05-07 19:20 +0200
          Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-07 20:20 +0200
            Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 22:40 +0200
            Re: A long rant on Debian 9 jpff <jpff@codemist.co.uk> - 2018-05-08 15:40 +0200
              Re: 3-button trackpoint configuration (was: A long rant on Debian 9) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2018-05-08 16:10 +0200
              Re: A long rant on Debian 9 Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2018-05-08 21:20 +0200

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#195368 — A long rant on Debian 9

I have been a user of debian for many years on a number of computers
as well as other GNU/Linux systems.  Recently I discovered that my
i686 32bit machine was out of support and they were not supporting
32bit machines any longer.  After some bad experiences with Tumbleweed I
decided that I would install stretch so I could get experience of it
when I am forced to upgrade my firewall (running jessie with a whezzy
kernel).

So today I d/loaded the net-install iso for debian 9.4 and wrote it to
a usb stick. Then tried to install on the target (Thinkpad x40).
Nice idea but it refused to use the wifi, so I proceeded via wired
ethernet hoping I could resolve the issue later.  In the process I
think I determined the wifi problem was the need for firmware for the
Intel ipw2200 hardware.

After rather a long time it said it was installed so I rebooted -- a
big mistake!  I was hoping for a computer where I could write
programs, mainly with xterm, emacs (with elisp) and C.  I had asked
for no gnome no kde no xfce...  I usually run fvwm on X but I got a
screen with nothing obvious to do.  I did get icons (spit!) offering
games and firefox but no xterm -- I was expecting to install emacs
myself as I use a very recent system -- but it was in effect not a
computer but some kind of toy. I do not play computer games and
thought I had said not to install any

Since then I have failed to get wifi although I have got the firmware
-- but no instructions on how to install.  Got aptitude installed and
discovered load of gnome stuff cluttering up the disk (which is
limited) and memory (ditto).

How do I get a working computer?  I can ssh in from elsewhere but that
is not what I need.  And I need wifi.

I have never had this problem in 35 years on unix and linux, and am
very disappointed.  I suppose I can install things like csh and
possibly xdm, exim from source etc but without an xterm.....

I also noticed eventually that the duff screen came from tty2 rather
that tty7 that I was expecting.

Sorry for the rant but I really was expecting simplicity as before.

==John ffitch

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#195370

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 4:51 PM, John <jpff@codemist.co.uk> wrote:

> I have been a user of debian for many years on a number of computers
> as well as other GNU/Linux systems.  Recently I discovered that my
> i686 32bit machine was out of support and they were not supporting
> 32bit machines any longer.  After some bad experiences with Tumbleweed I
> decided that I would install stretch so I could get experience of it
> when I am forced to upgrade my firewall (running jessie with a whezzy
> kernel).
>
> So today I d/loaded the net-install iso for debian 9.4 and wrote it to
> a usb stick. Then tried to install on the target (Thinkpad x40).
> Nice idea but it refused to use the wifi, so I proceeded via wired
> ethernet hoping I could resolve the issue later.  In the process I
> think I determined the wifi problem was the need for firmware for the
> Intel ipw2200 hardware.
>
> After rather a long time it said it was installed so I rebooted -- a
> big mistake!  I was hoping for a computer where I could write
> programs, mainly with xterm, emacs (with elisp) and C.  I had asked
> for no gnome no kde no xfce...  I usually run fvwm on X but I got a
> screen with nothing obvious to do.  I did get icons (spit!) offering
> games and firefox but no xterm -- I was expecting to install emacs
> myself as I use a very recent system -- but it was in effect not a
> computer but some kind of toy. I do not play computer games and
> thought I had said not to install any
>
> Since then I have failed to get wifi although I have got the firmware
> -- but no instructions on how to install.  Got aptitude installed and
> discovered load of gnome stuff cluttering up the disk (which is
> limited) and memory (ditto).
>
> How do I get a working computer?  I can ssh in from elsewhere but that
> is not what I need.  And I need wifi.
>
> I have never had this problem in 35 years on unix and linux, and am
> very disappointed.  I suppose I can install things like csh and
> possibly xdm, exim from source etc but without an xterm.....
>
> I also noticed eventually that the duff screen came from tty2 rather
> that tty7 that I was expecting.
>
> Sorry for the rant but I really was expecting simplicity as before.
>
> ==John ffitch
>
>
Since you have proprietary driver I believe you need to use the non-free
installer.

Try: https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi since you already have the firmware.

Also, since, forever, desktop environments tend to install a lot of stuff.

HTH
Forest

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#195373

John composed on 2018-05-06 21:51 (UTC+0100):

> How do I get a working computer?  I can ssh in from elsewhere but that
> is not what I need.  And I need wifi.

My Debian installations are all net installs that include

	tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false

on the kernel cmdline. I get nothing I don't need installed that way. Xorg and
whatever else I need I get with apt* once booted normally.

I don't use WiFi.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#195383

On Sun, 6 May 2018 18:09:12 -0400
Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:

> John composed on 2018-05-06 21:51 (UTC+0100):
> 
> > How do I get a working computer?  I can ssh in from elsewhere but
> > that is not what I need.  And I need wifi.  
> 
> My Debian installations are all net installs that include
> 
> 	tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false
> 
> on the kernel cmdline. I get nothing I don't need installed that way.
> Xorg and whatever else I need I get with apt* once booted normally.
> 

How do you get that on the kernel cmdline? My guess is that when the
net-install medium boots, showing the menu which grub displays, you
edit and append "tasks=..." to the line that starts "linux" right?

 - Dan

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#195435

On 2018-05-07, Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> 
>> on the kernel cmdline. I get nothing I don't need installed that way.
>> Xorg and whatever else I need I get with apt* once booted normally.
>> 
>
> How do you get that on the kernel cmdline? My guess is that when the
> net-install medium boots, showing the menu which grub displays, you
> edit and append "tasks=..." to the line that starts "linux" right?

Inside the installer (I booted with kvm this outdated? one I had hanging
around--'firmware-stretch-DI-rc3-amd64-netinst.iso') if you press tab
rather than enter on "Graphical Install" or "Install", you get the
kernel command line (to which you can append your extra parameter(s)).

If you press escape, you get a prompt that looks like this:

 boot:



>  - Dan
>
>


-- 

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#195436

On 2018-05-07, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:
> On 2018-05-07, Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> on the kernel cmdline. I get nothing I don't need installed that way.
>>> Xorg and whatever else I need I get with apt* once booted normally.
>>> 
>>
>> How do you get that on the kernel cmdline? My guess is that when the
>> net-install medium boots, showing the menu which grub displays, you
>> edit and append "tasks=..." to the line that starts "linux" right?
>
> Inside the installer (I booted with kvm this outdated? one I had hanging
> around--'firmware-stretch-DI-rc3-amd64-netinst.iso') if you press tab
> rather than enter on "Graphical Install" or "Install", you get the
> kernel command line (to which you can append your extra parameter(s)).
>
> If you press escape, you get a prompt that looks like this:
>
>  boot:
>

I should have just referred you to the Debian Handbook here:

https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.installation-steps.html

 Each menu entry hides a specific boot command line, which can be configured
 as needed by pressing the TAB key before validating the entry and booting. The
 “Help” menu entry displays the old command line interface, where the F1 to F10
 keys display different help screens detailing the various options available at
 the prompt. You will rarely need to use this option except in very specific cases. 

-- 

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#195457

On Mon, 7 May 2018 15:30:54 +0000 (UTC)
Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:

> On 2018-05-07, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:
> > On 2018-05-07, Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> wrote:  
> >>> 
> >>> on the kernel cmdline. I get nothing I don't need installed that
> >>> way. Xorg and whatever else I need I get with apt* once booted
> >>> normally. 
> >>
> >> How do you get that on the kernel cmdline? My guess is that when
> >> the net-install medium boots, showing the menu which grub
> >> displays, you edit and append "tasks=..." to the line that starts
> >> "linux" right?  
> >
> > Inside the installer (I booted with kvm this outdated? one I had
> > hanging around--'firmware-stretch-DI-rc3-amd64-netinst.iso') if you
> > press tab rather than enter on "Graphical Install" or "Install",
> > you get the kernel command line (to which you can append your extra
> > parameter(s)).
> >
> > If you press escape, you get a prompt that looks like this:
> >
> >  boot:
> >  
> 
> I should have just referred you to the Debian Handbook here:
> 
> https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.installation-steps.html
> 
>  Each menu entry hides a specific boot command line, which can be
> configured as needed by pressing the TAB key before validating the
> entry and booting. The “Help” menu entry displays the old command
> line interface, where the F1 to F10 keys display different help
> screens detailing the various options available at the prompt. You
> will rarely need to use this option except in very specific cases. 
> 

Unfortunately, that does not work. The Boot Screen does not look like
"Figure 4.1. Boot screen" and more to the point, tab has no effect. One
can move selection up or down, enter to select, E to edit, or C for
a GRUB command line. Boot a Debian 9.4 netinst iso and you'll see
what I mean. 

Felix wrote:
"My Debian installations are all net installs that include

	tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false

on the kernel cmdline."

What's the kernel here? The one for the installer, right? We need to
pass the above parms to the installer at boot time. Selecting "Install"
and typing "E" we see the following: 

setparams 'Install'
  set background_color=black
  linux   /install.amd/vmlinuz vga=788 --- quiet
  initrd  /install.amd/initrd.gz

So, do Felix's parms get appended to the end of the linux line or
where? 

 - Dan

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#195459

Dan Norton composed on 2018-05-07 17:47 (UTC-0400):

> Felix wrote:

> "My Debian installations are all net installs that include

> 	tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false

> on the kernel cmdline."

> What's the kernel here? The one for the installer, right? We need to
> pass the above parms to the installer at boot time. Selecting "Install"
> and typing "E" we see the following: 

> setparams 'Install'
>   set background_color=black
>   linux   /install.amd/vmlinuz vga=788 --- quiet
>   initrd  /install.amd/initrd.gz

> So, do Felix's parms get appended to the end of the linux line or
> where? 

"linux" is kernel. Get rid of quiet and put them there. You might like vga=791
or 794 better if you don't have Intel, NVidia or ATI/AMD gfx.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#195500

The next installment....

I booted the machine just recently and I am not sure what I did but I 
noticed that both the wired and wifi interfaes were up.  I took the wired 
down
   ifconfig enp2s1 down
and it continued to ping my gateway and the bbc.  More than that it 
allowed be to use aptitude to get firefox.

I tried a number of changes to /etc/network/interfaces and I seem to have 
it working.  So now back to installing compilers and development tools


As ever I apologise for what were probably trivia questions.  My only 
excuse is age  -- I predate networks and operating systems.

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#195461 — Re: minimal installation (was: A long rant on Debian 9)

Dan Norton composed on 2018-05-07 17:47 (UTC-0400):

> Felix wrote:

> "My Debian installations are all net installs that include

> 	tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false

> on the kernel cmdline."

> What's the kernel here? The one for the installer, right? We need to
> pass the above parms to the installer at boot time. Selecting "Install"
> and typing "E" we see the following: 

> setparams 'Install'
>   set background_color=black
>   linux   /install.amd/vmlinuz vga=788 --- quiet
>   initrd  /install.amd/initrd.gz

> So, do Felix's parms get appended to the end of the linux line or
> where? 

"linux" is kernel. Get rid of quiet and put them there. You might like vga=791
or 794 better if you don't have Intel, NVidia or ATI/AMD gfx.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#195482

On 2018-05-07, Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> 
>
> Unfortunately, that does not work. The Boot Screen does not look like
> "Figure 4.1. Boot screen" and more to the point, tab has no effect. One
> can move selection up or down, enter to select, E to edit, or C for
> a GRUB command line. Boot a Debian 9.4 netinst iso and you'll see
> what I mean. 
>

All right.

I downloaded 'debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso' and booted it in kvm and
*it does work* as advertised here, so I don't know what accounts for
your difficulty, Dan.

I see, once the installer boots, the following:

 Debian GNU/linux installer boot menu

 Graphical install
 Install
 Advanced options
 Help
 Install with speech synthesis

When I tab on either "Graphical install" or "Install", I get an editable
kernel command line. If I hit "escape" I get the boot prompt:

 boot:



-- 

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#195488

On 5/8/18, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:
> On 2018-05-07, Dan Norton <dnorton@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, that does not work. The Boot Screen does not look like
>> "Figure 4.1. Boot screen" and more to the point, tab has no effect. One
>> can move selection up or down, enter to select, E to edit, or C for
>> a GRUB command line. Boot a Debian 9.4 netinst iso and you'll see
>> what I mean.
>>
>
> All right.
>
> I downloaded 'debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso' and booted it in kvm and
> *it does work* as advertised here, so I don't know what accounts for
> your difficulty, Dan.
>
> I see, once the installer boots, the following:
>
>  Debian GNU/linux installer boot menu
>
>  Graphical install
>  Install
>  Advanced options
>  Help
>  Install with speech synthesis
>
> When I tab on either "Graphical install" or "Install", I get an editable
> kernel command line. If I hit "escape" I get the boot prompt:
>
>  boot:


Ok, that's really weird, then. What factor could possibly cause that
kind of difference at that very early point in the use of Debian?

Only thing my poor brain can come up with is integrity of the
downloaded ISO file. That would include wondering what mirror provided
the download.... and was the [checksum] step run to make sure the file
is original and not tampered with..

This link was just shared here in last few days:

https://www.debian.org/CD/verify

This one is because it pulled up in my search just now (and might
provide something useful for new users):

https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-verify-an-authenticity-of-downloaded-debian-iso-images

That came via StackExchange:

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/138603/how-to-verify-debian-iso-integrity

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

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#195490

On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 07:58:54AM -0400, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> On 5/8/18, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:
> > I downloaded 'debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso' and booted it in kvm and
> > *it does work* as advertised here, so I don't know what accounts for
> > your difficulty, Dan.

> Ok, that's really weird, then. What factor could possibly cause that
> kind of difference at that very early point in the use of Debian?

The installer can be booted in either Legacy or UEFI mode.  Perhaps
the menus work differently between those two?  I haven't had to do a
Legacy install in quite some time.

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#195493

Hi,

Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> Only thing my poor brain can come up with is integrity of the
> downloaded ISO file.

That would be quite a peculiar transport damage.
On the other hand, malicious alteration would probably avoid such obvious
deviations from usual behavior.


Greg Wooledge wrote:
> The installer can be booted in either Legacy or UEFI mode.  Perhaps
> the menus work differently between those two?

This is more plausible. After all the i386 and amd64 ISOs have two different
bootloaders with own menu configuration files each.
(ISOLINUX on Legacy BIOS, GRUB2 on EFI in non-Legacy mode.)

But i guess that the ISOs got tested with both firmwares at least when
Debian 9 was new.


So progress will probably only be made if some fearless person tries to
replay the situation. (Fearless, because software can smell if you are
out of courage or patience.)

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/05/msg00137.html
says:
  "Thinkpad x40", "wifi", "Intel ipw2200 hardware"
Implicitely i read "amd64" as architecture of the netinst ISO.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
More for the archive than for this thread:

> https://www.debian.org/CD/verify

This should be accompanied by
  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#verify
and some glue text.

I recently wrote an example at
  https://wiki.debian.org/JigdoOnLive#Verify_the_Debian_Live_download


> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-verify-an-authenticity-of-downloaded-debian-i
so-images

This should put more emphasis on comparing the "Primary key fingerprint"
with those listed on
  https://www.debian.org/CD/verify

A while ago i read about successful spoofing by keys which claimed to
be from trusted programmers. Cryptography was not involved. Only human
credulity.


> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/138603/how-to-verify-debian-iso-integrity

This is better in the aspect of fingerprints. (I think the "web of trust"
proposal is not possible with the Debian CD keys. But i can be wrong easily.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#195506

On Tue, 8 May 2018 08:33:47 -0400
Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:

> On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 07:58:54AM -0400, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> > On 5/8/18, Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:  
> > > I downloaded 'debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso' and booted it in
> > > kvm and *it does work* as advertised here, so I don't know what
> > > accounts for your difficulty, Dan.  
> 
> > Ok, that's really weird, then. What factor could possibly cause that
> > kind of difference at that very early point in the use of Debian?  
> 
> The installer can be booted in either Legacy or UEFI mode.  Perhaps
> the menus work differently between those two?  I haven't had to do a
> Legacy install in quite some time.
> 

The installer boot menu here shows (with different horizontal
alignment):

Debian GNU/Linux 9.4.0
    Debian GNU/Linux UEFI Installer Menu

Graphical Install
Install
Advanced Options ...
Install with speech synthesis

Enter: Select
E: Edit Selection      C: GRUB Command line

...tabs have no effect.

The iso is on CD and was obtained from the following mirror:
http://debian.gtisc.gatech.edu/debian/

 - Dan

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#195494

Dan wrote:
>On Mon, 7 May 2018 15:30:54 +0000 (UTC)
>Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:
>> 
>> I should have just referred you to the Debian Handbook here:
>> 
>> https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.installation-steps.html
>> 
>>  Each menu entry hides a specific boot command line, which can be
>> configured as needed by pressing the TAB key before validating the
>> entry and booting. The “Help” menu entry displays the old command
>> line interface, where the F1 to F10 keys display different help
>> screens detailing the various options available at the prompt. You
>> will rarely need to use this option except in very specific cases. 
>> 
>
>Unfortunately, that does not work. The Boot Screen does not look like
>"Figure 4.1. Boot screen" and more to the point, tab has no effect. One
>can move selection up or down, enter to select, E to edit, or C for
>a GRUB command line. Boot a Debian 9.4 netinst iso and you'll see
>what I mean. 

There are differences here, depending on how your system is
booting. If you're in (legacy/BIOS/CSM) mode, then you'll get the boot
screen as described (isolinux). If you're booting in UEFI mode, you'll
be using Grub instead. You'll get the same menu structure, but
interacting with it is slightly different in the details (as you've
noted).

>What's the kernel here? The one for the installer, right? We need to
>pass the above parms to the installer at boot time. Selecting "Install"
>and typing "E" we see the following: 
>
>setparams 'Install'
>  set background_color=black
>  linux   /install.amd/vmlinuz vga=788 --- quiet
>  initrd  /install.amd/initrd.gz
>
>So, do Felix's parms get appended to the end of the linux line or
>where? 

On the "linux" line, yes.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
"Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out
 whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast."
 Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html

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#195495

AAArgh.

I forgot that Dan is using a selfish bullshit spam-multiplying
system. EOD.

On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 02:53:56PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>Dan wrote:
>>On Mon, 7 May 2018 15:30:54 +0000 (UTC)
>>Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote:

...

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
Dance like no one's watching. Encrypt like everyone is.
 - @torproject

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#195399

That looks interesting; it attemts to answer my deep problem about no X, 
xdm, xterm etc.

My problem nowis I do not know where/how to apply this.  I have not seen 
any mention of a kernel command line in the net install.  More please!

And thank you all who pointed me at the non-free installer files.  I will 
try that later today with luck


On Sun, 6 May 2018, Felix Miata wrote:

> John composed on 2018-05-06 21:51 (UTC+0100):
>
>> How do I get a working computer?  I can ssh in from elsewhere but that
>> is not what I need.  And I need wifi.
>
> My Debian installations are all net installs that include
>
> 	tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false
>
> on the kernel cmdline. I get nothing I don't need installed that way. Xorg and
> whatever else I need I get with apt* once booted normally.
>
> I don't use WiFi.
> -- 
> "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
> get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
>
> Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
>

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#195405

On Mon 07 May 2018 at 12:34:07 +0100, jpff wrote:

> That looks interesting; it attemts to answer my deep problem about no X,
> xdm, xterm etc.
> 
> My problem nowis I do not know where/how to apply this.  I have not seen any
> mention of a kernel command line in the net install.  More please!

We could really do with someone writing an Installation Guide and making
it available on Debian's home page for things like this. :)
 
> And thank you all who pointed me at the non-free installer files.  I will
> try that later today with luck
> 
> 
> On Sun, 6 May 2018, Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> > John composed on 2018-05-06 21:51 (UTC+0100):
> > 
> > > How do I get a working computer?  I can ssh in from elsewhere but that
> > > is not what I need.  And I need wifi.
> > 
> > My Debian installations are all net installs that include
> > 
> > 	tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false
> > 
> > on the kernel cmdline. I get nothing I don't need installed that way. Xorg and
> > whatever else I need I get with apt* once booted normally.
> > 
> > I don't use WiFi.
> > -- 
> > "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
> > get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
> > 
> > Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
> > 
> > Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
> > 
> 

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#195431

On Mon, May 07, 2018 at 01:09:33PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 07 May 2018 at 12:34:07 +0100, jpff wrote:
> 
> > That looks interesting; it attemts to answer my deep problem about no X,
> > xdm, xterm etc.
> > 
> > My problem nowis I do not know where/how to apply this.  I have not seen any
> > mention of a kernel command line in the net install.  More please!
> 
> We could really do with someone writing an Installation Guide and making
> it available on Debian's home page for things like this. :)
>  

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/apbs02.html.en#preseed-bootparms

The installation manual is linked directly from https://www.debian.org
and the link to Appendix B, "Automating the installation using
presseing" is available from the TOC.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

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