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Groups > linux.debian.user > #189609 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-12-06 23:20 +0100 |
| Last post | 2017-12-07 08:50 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 127 — 38 participants |
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Embarrassing security bug in systemd Urs Thuermann <urs@isnogud.escape.de> - 2017-12-06 23:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-12-06 23:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2017-12-07 00:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-12-07 03:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-12-07 07:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2017-12-06 23:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Dave Sherohman <dave@sherohman.org> - 2017-12-07 10:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2017-12-07 11:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-12-07 11:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-12-09 03:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-09 17:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Jimmy Johnson <field.engineer@gmail.com> - 2017-12-10 10:00 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-10 20:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-07 11:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-12-07 16:00 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2017-12-07 20:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-08 09:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-12-08 12:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-08 13:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-12-08 21:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-12-08 17:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-12-08 19:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Menelaos Maglis <mmaglis@metacom.gr> - 2017-12-08 19:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Menelaos Maglis <mmaglis@metacom.gr> - 2017-12-08 19:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-12-08 20:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-08 21:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-12-09 09:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-09 11:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-12-09 19:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-12-09 20:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-09 22:00 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-12-10 00:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-12-10 10:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-12-10 11:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-12-10 12:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-12-10 16:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-11 15:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-12-09 21:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-09 21:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-08 21:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2017-12-08 22:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-12-09 02:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2017-12-09 06:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-12-09 09:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-12-09 09:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2017-12-15 13:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-15 14:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2017-12-15 16:00 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-08 21:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-08 22:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2017-12-09 00:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-09 10:00 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Dave Sherohman <dave@sherohman.org> - 2017-12-08 10:00 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2017-12-08 23:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-12-09 00:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-09 01:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-12-09 11:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-09 15:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-12-10 01:00 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-10 22:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-09 17:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-09 18:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-09 21:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-10 12:00 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-10 17:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-10 20:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-10 21:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-10 23:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-11 00:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-11 00:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-11 12:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-11 13:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-11 14:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-10 21:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2017-12-11 13:00 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-11 13:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-11 16:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-10 23:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-11 01:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-11 04:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-11 06:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-12-11 07:40 +0100
Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-12-11 15:40 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-12-11 16:00 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-12-11 18:30 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-12-11 16:30 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2017-12-11 17:40 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-11 20:10 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-12 09:30 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2017-12-12 17:30 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-12-12 17:50 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-12-12 18:20 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2017-12-13 04:40 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-12-11 18:30 +0100
Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-12 19:10 +0100
UID 1000 on Raspberry Pi (Was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) Jason <electron@emypeople.net> - 2018-01-09 05:10 +0100
Re: UID 1000 on Raspberry Pi (Was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) Christian Groessler <chris@groessler.org> - 2018-01-09 16:00 +0100
Re: UID 1000 on Raspberry Pi (Was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2018-01-09 16:30 +0100
Re: UID 1000 on Raspberry Pi (Was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) Christian Groessler <chris@groessler.org> - 2018-01-09 18:10 +0100
Re: UID 1000 on Raspberry Pi (Was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> - 2018-01-10 04:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Menelaos Maglis <mmaglis@metacom.gr> - 2017-12-09 01:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Mark Fletcher <mark27q1@gmail.com> - 2017-12-09 03:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-12-09 10:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-12-09 16:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Tom Furie <tom@furie.org.uk> - 2017-12-09 17:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2017-12-09 22:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-09 18:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-12-07 00:00 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-12-07 09:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-12-07 00:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-12-07 00:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-12-07 03:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2017-12-07 00:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2017-12-07 00:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-12-07 01:20 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-12-07 03:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-07 02:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-12-07 03:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2017-12-07 08:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2017-12-07 00:50 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-12-07 02:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Menelaos Maglis <mmaglis@metacom.gr> - 2017-12-08 10:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-12-08 13:40 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-12-08 20:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-12-07 01:10 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2017-12-07 08:30 +0100
Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd David Baron <dbaron770@gmail.com> - 2017-12-07 08:50 +0100
Page 5 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 Next page →
| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-11 06:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <uVovL-OD-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189773 |
On Sun 10 Dec 2017 at 22:17:12 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote: > On Sunday 10 December 2017 19:02:49 David Wright wrote: > > > On Sun 10 Dec 2017 at 16:43:02 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote: > > > On Sunday 10 December 2017 14:12:09 David Wright wrote: > > > > On Sun 10 Dec 2017 at 10:42:53 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote: > > > > > For something that can be such a pita, not installing the docs > > > > > doesn't seem like my error, they should have been part of the > > > > > install. IMO. > > > > > > > > That's ridiculous. I don't want all the docs on all the > > > > installations. I only install docs on the machines that either I'm > > > > going to read it on or one with a big disk. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > David. > > > > > > While I do have spinning rust drives of a terrabyte on both of those > > > credit card sized machines, functioning as swaps and work areas, > > > they are still booting and running from a 32GB sd chip disk. > > > > …whereas the two laptops I mainly type into have respectively 60 and > > 80 GB disks of rust. Both have two root filesystems with different > > versions of Debian. The smaller drive's PC needs a swap partition to > > function, the other needs one for hibernation. Not a lot of space > > left for /home. Installing shedloads of docs for each person's PITA > > would contravene Debian's sensible policies. > > > This I'd guess is important, if you have several users. I don't, except > for amanda and nut, and thats only on this machine. All the rest have > one user, me, known under various aliases That's not what I meant. You find polkit a PITA, so you want Debian to install the docs automatically when you install the package. Someone else finds ntp a PITA, so they lobby Debian for ntp's docs. "What about rsyslog?" says somebody else. "That should have the same treatment; it's a PITA." Debian's answer: if you want the docs for foo, then install foo-doc, but don't force them onto others by making them a dependency of foo. > because the idiot installer is > now set to give the first user the machines name like pi or rock64. I > spent a month trying to fix user 1000 to be me instead of pi on the pi. Have you tried setting the hostname to "gene" whenever you install onto a new machine, and then changing *its* name to pi or rock64 afterwards. That might be easier. Cheers, David.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-11 07:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <uVpUS-1D5-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189774 |
On Sunday 10 December 2017 23:50:13 David Wright wrote: > On Sun 10 Dec 2017 at 22:17:12 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Sunday 10 December 2017 19:02:49 David Wright wrote: > > > On Sun 10 Dec 2017 at 16:43:02 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote: > > > > On Sunday 10 December 2017 14:12:09 David Wright wrote: > > > > > On Sun 10 Dec 2017 at 10:42:53 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote: > > > > > > For something that can be such a pita, not installing the > > > > > > docs doesn't seem like my error, they should have been part > > > > > > of the install. IMO. > > > > > > > > > > That's ridiculous. I don't want all the docs on all the > > > > > installations. I only install docs on the machines that either > > > > > I'm going to read it on or one with a big disk. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > David. > > > > > > > > While I do have spinning rust drives of a terrabyte on both of > > > > those credit card sized machines, functioning as swaps and work > > > > areas, they are still booting and running from a 32GB sd chip > > > > disk. > > > > > > …whereas the two laptops I mainly type into have respectively 60 > > > and 80 GB disks of rust. Both have two root filesystems with > > > different versions of Debian. The smaller drive's PC needs a swap > > > partition to function, the other needs one for hibernation. Not a > > > lot of space left for /home. Installing shedloads of docs for each > > > person's PITA would contravene Debian's sensible policies. > > > > This I'd guess is important, if you have several users. I don't, > > except for amanda and nut, and thats only on this machine. All the > > rest have one user, me, known under various aliases > > That's not what I meant. > > You find polkit a PITA, so you want Debian to install the docs > automatically when you install the package. > > Someone else finds ntp a PITA, so they lobby Debian for ntp's docs. > > "What about rsyslog?" says somebody else. "That should have the > same treatment; it's a PITA." > > Debian's answer: if you want the docs for foo, then install foo-doc, > but don't force them onto others by making them a dependency of foo. > > > because the idiot > > installer is now set to give the first user the machines name like > > pi or rock64. I spent a month trying to fix user 1000 to be me > > instead of pi on the pi. > > Have you tried setting the hostname to "gene" whenever you install > onto a new machine, and then changing *its* name to pi or rock64 > afterwards. That might be easier. > > Cheers, > David. Thats a great idea David, except the installs on an armhf or arm64 are the complete image, and the install is a dd session with the sdcard in a card reader. So its rather effectively carved in pretty hard granite. :( I don't even know if there is an install iso for an arm64 from debian. Neither of these seem to come with enough of a bios to actually boot and install, not from a usb key, and certainly not from an optical drive. No trace of a grub anyplace once its been done either. There are instructions for making the pi's boot from rust, but its a one way as its said to be an otp rom in charge of that, however when I try to set that bit, its write protected even for root. In all 3 of the pi's I bought. And there is even less info around on how the rock64 boots. Frustrating... Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-11 15:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <uVxpo-6p0-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189775 |
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On Monday, December 11, 2017 01:12:41 AM Gene Heskett wrote: > There are instructions for making the pi's boot from rust, but its a one > way as its said to be an otp rom in charge of that, however when I try > to set that bit, its write protected even for root. In all 3 of the pi's > I bought. And there is even less info around on how the rock64 boots. I know "rust" is used as sort of a slang term, but do hard disks have iron oxide anywhere on them? When I take a hard disk apart (I save the magnets and melt the media), the disks are nice and shiny. (Did hard disks ever use iron oxide?) I guess I can google, and will try that later today. Oh, well: From the Wikipedia article on "Magnetic storage": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_storage#Design "For reliable storage of data, the recording material needs to resist self- demagnetisation, which occurs when the magnetic domains repel each other. Magnetic domains written too densely together to a weakly magnetisable material will degrade over time due to rotation of the magnetic moment one or more domains to cancel out these forces. The domains rotate sideways to a halfway position that weakens the readability of the domain and relieves the magnetic stresses. Older hard disk drives used iron(III) oxide as the magnetic material, but current disks use a cobalt-based alloy.[1]" I have trouble understanding that 2nd sentence: "Magnetic domains written too densely together to a weakly magnetisable material will degrade over time due to rotation of the magnetic moment one or more domains to cancel out these forces." and would like to rewrite it to be more clear--I'll make an attempt below--suggestions are welcome: "Magnetic domains written too densely together to a weakly magnetisable material will degrade over time--the magnetic forces which impact the disk during rotation will cause one or more of the tiny magnetic domains to rotate to (partialy) cancel out the intended magnetization (which stores the data)." I'll probably also replace "too densely together" with either "too close together" or "too densely". Maybe I've combined too much of the third sentence into the second sentence and it might stand rewriting as well.
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| From | Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-11 16:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <uVxIJ-6vP-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189793 |
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On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 09:16:35AM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > On Monday, December 11, 2017 01:12:41 AM Gene Heskett wrote: > > > There are instructions for making the pi's boot from rust, but its a one > > > way as its said to be an otp rom in charge of that, however when I try > > > to set that bit, its write protected even for root. In all 3 of the pi's > > > I bought. And there is even less info around on how the rock64 boots. > > > > I know "rust" is used as sort of a slang term, but do hard disks have iron oxide anywhere on them? When I take a hard disk > apart (I save the magnets and melt the media), the disks are nice and shiny. > > > > (Did hard disks ever use iron oxide?) > > > > I guess I can google, and will try that later today. Oh, well: > > > > From the Wikipedia article on "Magnetic storage": > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_storage#Design > > > > "For reliable storage of data, the recording material needs to resist self-demagnetisation, which occurs when the magnetic > domains repel each other. Magnetic domains written too densely together to a weakly magnetisable material will degrade over > time due to rotation of the [1]magnetic moment one or more domains to cancel out these forces. The domains rotate sideways > to a halfway position that weakens the readability of the domain and relieves the magnetic stresses. Older hard disk drives > used [2]iron(III) oxide as the magnetic material, but current disks use a [3]cobalt-based alloy.[4][1]" > > > > I have trouble understanding that 2nd sentence: "Magnetic domains written too densely together to a weakly magnetisable > material will degrade over time due to rotation of the [5]magnetic moment one or more domains to cancel out these forces." > and would like to rewrite it to be more clear--I'll make an attempt below--suggestions are welcome: > > > > "Magnetic domains written too densely together to a weakly magnetisable material will degrade over time--the magnetic forces > which impact the disk during rotation will cause one or more of the tiny magnetic domains to rotate to (partialy) cancel out > the intended magnetization (which stores the data)." Be careful. As I understand it, the force which causes the demagnetisation has little, if anything, to do with rotation of the platter. Rather, the problem lies in the fact that, let's say you have 1-0-1 stored on the disk, those two 1s provide a force which "pulls" on the 0 until it looks more like a 1 than a 0. > > > > I'll probably also replace "too densely together" with either "too close together" or "too densely". > > > > Maybe I've combined too much of the third sentence into the second sentence and it might stand rewriting as well. > > > >References > > Visible links > 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_moment > 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron%28III%29_oxide > 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt > 4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_storage#cite_note-AutoMK-13-1 > 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_moment -- For more information, please reread.
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| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-11 18:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <uVA3T-88C-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189794 |
On Monday, December 11, 2017 09:41:45 AM Darac Marjal wrote: > On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 09:16:35AM -0500, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > > From the Wikipedia article on "Magnetic storage": > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_storage#Design > > "For reliable storage of data, the recording material needs to resist > > self-demagnetisation, which occurs when the magnetic domains repel > > each other. Magnetic domains written too densely together to a weakly > > magnetisable material will degrade over time due to rotation of the > > [1]magnetic moment one or more domains to cancel out these forces. The > > domains rotate sideways to a halfway position that weakens the > > readability of the domain and relieves the magnetic stresses. Older > > hard disk drives used [2]iron(III) oxide as the magnetic material, but > > current disks use a [3]cobalt-based alloy.[4][1]" > > I have trouble understanding that 2nd sentence: "Magnetic domains > > written too densely together to a weakly magnetisable material will > > degrade over time due to rotation of the [5]magnetic moment one or > > more domains to cancel out these forces." and would like to rewrite it > > to be more clear--I'll make an attempt below--suggestions are welcome: > > "Magnetic domains written too densely together to a weakly magnetisable > > material will degrade over time--the magnetic forces which impact the > > disk during rotation will cause one or more of the tiny magnetic > > domains to rotate to (partialy) cancel out the intended magnetization > > (which stores the data)." > > Be careful. As I understand it, the force which causes the > demagnetisation has little, if anything, to do with rotation of the > platter. Rather, the problem lies in the fact that, let's say you have > 1-0-1 stored on the disk, those two 1s provide a force which "pulls" on > the 0 until it looks more like a 1 than a 0. Ok--thanks for the reply. I guess I'll wait until I acquire more information / understanding (perhaps by osmosis--i.e., probably passively rather than by active (re-)search). I guess part of my (the?) problem is the word rotation in the first iteration of the sentence--I assumed that was rotation of the disk (in things like (1) the magnetic fields associated with the read (and write) heads, and (2) maybe the earth's magnetic field. Maybe the interpretation of the word rotation is more like you imply--rotation of the magnetic field of the (for example) 0 in response to the two adjacent 1s. I guess the more I re-read that sentence, the more I tend to think that your interpretation is the correct one. Any hints appreciated. > > I'll probably also replace "too densely together" with either "too > > close together" or "too densely". > > > > > > > > Maybe I've combined too much of the third sentence into the second > > sentence and it might stand rewriting as well. > > > > > > > >References > > > > Visible links > > 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_moment > > 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron%28III%29_oxide > > 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt > > 4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_storage#cite_note-AutoMK-13-1 > > 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_moment
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-11 16:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <uVybL-6Yw-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189793 |
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:16:35 -0500 rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > > (Did hard disks ever use iron oxide?) > The rigid platters of IBM cartridges and packs (the things you see in computer rooms in films) did have brown oxide coatings. The surface of each 12 inch platter side stored a magnificent 2.5MB, or at least the version I used did. It was used in a system with an embedded DG Nova, and a competitive product of the time used the modern 8 inch floppy discs... -- Joe
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| From | "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-11 17:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) |
| Message-ID | <uVzhv-7Bv-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189796 |
On 12/11/17, 7:04 AM, Joe wrote: > The rigid platters of IBM cartridges and packs (the things you see in > computer rooms in films) did have brown oxide coatings. The surface of > each 12 inch platter side stored a magnificent 2.5MB, or at least the > version I used did. It was used in a system with an embedded DG Nova, > and a competitive product of the time used the modern 8 inch floppy > discs... The student timeshare systems my high school used (running the McGill University MUSIC operating system) while I was a student there (an IBM 370/135 at the District Office) and shortly after I graduated (an on-site IBM 4341) used Merlin drives. <https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/storage_3330.html> <https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/storage/images/overlay/PH3330.jpg> Artist's conception, with a drive open, at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IBM_magnetic_disk_drives_3330%2B3333.png> Typical pack, in pack-cover, at <http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102649181> The only time I saw one open was on the 4341 (I was working a summer job at the school), when a power failure caused the emergency retract mechanism to jam, and we had to get a technician out (from CDC!) to unjam the heads. The 4341, at least, also had an 8" floppy drive, buried inside the CPU cabinet. -- JHHL
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-11 20:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) |
| Message-ID | <uVBCF-Nu-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189797 |
On Mon 11 Dec 2017 at 08:34:41 (-0800), James H. H. Lampert wrote: > On 12/11/17, 7:04 AM, Joe wrote: > >The rigid platters of IBM cartridges and packs (the things you see in > >computer rooms in films) did have brown oxide coatings. The surface of > >each 12 inch platter side stored a magnificent 2.5MB, or at least the > >version I used did. It was used in a system with an embedded DG Nova, > >and a competitive product of the time used the modern 8 inch floppy > >discs... > > The student timeshare systems my high school used (running the > McGill University MUSIC operating system) while I was a student > there (an IBM 370/135 at the District Office) and shortly after I > graduated (an on-site IBM 4341) used Merlin drives. Or, even older, the IBM 1130 came with cartridges (like pizza boxes) that held about 1 MB. The platter surface looked much like ¼” reel-to-reel tape. One drive was built-in, and we had a 2310 floor-standing unit holding two more, all removable. (Photo 4 in the reference has two of the latter.) The other peripherals we had were paper tape reader/punch, a Calcomp 30” drum plotter and ½” tape of some sort. Of the two systems we had, one was built inside a container on air-mounts and travelled on the deck of ocean-going research vessels. Cheers, David.
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-12 09:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) |
| Message-ID | <uVO6R-AI-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189797 |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 08:34:41AM -0800, James H. H. Lampert wrote: > On 12/11/17, 7:04 AM, Joe wrote: > >The rigid platters of IBM cartridges and packs (the things you see in > >computer rooms in films) did have brown oxide coatings. The surface of > >each 12 inch platter side stored a magnificent 2.5MB, or at least the > >version I used did. It was used in a system with an embedded DG Nova, > >and a competitive product of the time used the modern 8 inch floppy > >discs... > > The student timeshare systems my high school used (running the > McGill University MUSIC operating system) while I was a student > there (an IBM 370/135 at the District Office) and shortly after I > graduated (an on-site IBM 4341) used Merlin drives. Those times, high schools and unis built their own OSes. These day they even outsource "programming" web pages. Way to go :-( (Sorry. Having one of those black days) - -- t -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlovkUgACgkQBcgs9XrR2kaA4QCfUDo1V8AMPAunH+r8Z0NzvDvq CKwAn3DcJ2VIPLMpueYOoo+MoU3b1x8w =5eDw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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| From | "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-12 17:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) |
| Message-ID | <uVVBn-5w4-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189811 |
I wrote: >> The student timeshare systems my high school used (running the >> McGill University MUSIC operating system) while I was a student >> there (an IBM 370/135 at the District Office) and shortly after I >> graduated (an on-site IBM 4341) used Merlin drives. to which Tomas replied: > Those times, high schools and unis built their own OSes. These day > they even outsource "programming" web pages. Way to go :-( McGill MUSIC still exists, actually. http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/group3/dedwar1/web/msi/musicsp.htm -- JHHL
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-12 17:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) |
| Message-ID | <uVVUJ-5Cd-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189823 |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 08:24:39AM -0800, James H. H. Lampert wrote: [...] > McGill MUSIC still exists, actually. > > http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/group3/dedwar1/web/msi/musicsp.htm Thanks for the link :-) Cheers - -- t -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlowBkYACgkQBcgs9XrR2kYvvwCbB1eUHVeVhdawlx4TofkTJZVK /NUAn3xH6ExFlfHgkVR5lq4P2wLdNtY4 =Yeif -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-12 18:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) |
| Message-ID | <uVWnL-61e-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189824 |
On 2017-12-12, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 08:24:39AM -0800, James H. H. Lampert wrote: > > [...] > >> McGill MUSIC still exists, actually. >> >> http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/group3/dedwar1/web/msi/musicsp.htm > > Thanks for the link :-) The Sim390 mainframe emulator home page link at the bottom appears to be defunct (downloadable demo version you can run in a virtual machine on Windows?). Whatever. Apropos, I sure hope Oumuamua is an alien probe and not a real (close, but no) cigar. We should know tomorrow. > Cheers > - -- t > > -- "The world is full of shipping clerks who have read the Harvard Classics." — Charles Bukowski
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| From | Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-13 04:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) |
| Message-ID | <uW63L-3NO-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189825 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 13/12/17 06:09, Curt wrote: > On 2017-12-12, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 08:24:39AM -0800, James H. H. Lampert wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>> McGill MUSIC still exists, actually. >>> >>> http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/group3/dedwar1/web/msi/musicsp.htm >> Thanks for the link :-) > The Sim390 mainframe emulator home page link at the bottom appears to be > defunct (downloadable demo version you can run in a virtual machine on > Windows?). There's a working link on the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSIC%2FSP http://www.canpub.com/teammpg/de/sim390/index.htm Richard
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| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-11 18:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <uVA3T-88C-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189796 |
Thanks! On Monday, December 11, 2017 10:04:09 AM Joe wrote: > On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:16:35 -0500 > > rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > > (Did hard disks ever use iron oxide?) > > The rigid platters of IBM cartridges and packs (the things you see in > computer rooms in films) did have brown oxide coatings. The surface of > each 12 inch platter side stored a magnificent 2.5MB, or at least the > version I used did. It was used in a system with an embedded DG Nova, > and a competitive product of the time used the modern 8 inch floppy > discs...
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-12-12 19:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Rust? (and a wordsmithing question) (was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <uVXa9-6A3-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189793 |
On Mon 11 Dec 2017 at 09:16:35 (-0500), rhkramer@gmail.com wrote: > From the Wikipedia article on "Magnetic storage": > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_storage#Design > > "For reliable storage of data, the recording material needs to resist self- > demagnetisation, which occurs when the magnetic domains repel each other. > Magnetic domains written too densely together to a weakly magnetisable > material will degrade over time due to rotation of the magnetic moment one or > more domains to cancel out these forces. The domains rotate sideways to a > halfway position that weakens the readability of the domain and relieves the > magnetic stresses. Older hard disk drives used iron(III) oxide as the magnetic > material, but current disks use a cobalt-based alloy.[1]" The last sentence belongs at the end of the previous paragraph, which explains two changes made in disk technology: i horizontal→vertical, ii iron→cobalt. > I have trouble understanding that 2nd sentence: Yes, it doesn't parse, and it also doesn't clearly express which domains (grains or regions) are meant at each mention of the term. But before changing it, I'd want to check out the physics. "Magnetic domains written too > densely together to a weakly magnetisable material will degrade over time due > to rotation of the magnetic moment one or more domains to cancel out these > forces." and would like to rewrite it to be more clear--I'll make an attempt > below--suggestions are welcome: > > "Magnetic domains written too densely together to a weakly magnetisable > material will degrade over time--the magnetic forces which impact the disk > during rotation will cause one or more of the tiny magnetic domains to rotate > to (partialy) cancel out the intended magnetization (which stores the data)." > > I'll probably also replace "too densely together" with either "too close > together" or "too densely". > > Maybe I've combined too much of the third sentence into the second sentence > and it might stand rewriting as well. Cheers, David.
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| From | Jason <electron@emypeople.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-01-09 05:10 +0100 |
| Subject | UID 1000 on Raspberry Pi (Was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <v5ToC-7fp-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #189773 |
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 10:17:12PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Sunday 10 December 2017 19:02:49 David Wright wrote: > > > On Sun 10 Dec 2017 at 16:43:02 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote: [...] > > > This I'd guess is important, if you have several users. I don't, except > for amanda and nut, and thats only on this machine. All the rest have > one user, me, known under various aliases because the idiot installer is > now set to give the first user the machines name like pi or rock64. I > spent a month trying to fix user 1000 to be me instead of pi on the pi. On the Pi, this is what worked for me: 1. Add a new user (and add him to group sudo). This user gets ID 1001. $ sudo adduser tempuser $ sudo adduser tempuser sudo 2. Log out of user pi and log in as the newly created user. 3. Delete user pi (pi must not have any processes running) $ sudo deluser pi 4. Add the desired username: $ sudo adduser gene Since no 1000 exists anymore you get UID 1000. If desired, delete the temporary user and the deleted users' home directories. It's possible the raspi-config utility might have a problem performing certain actions with no pi user existing so you might want to be a bit careful and make sure initial configuration is done before trying this. > It was like trying to excavate the pine island pirate treasure, so I > eventually gave it up and reinstalled the jessie image. Ditto on the > rock64, so the only thing common is the password. Fortunately an ssh -Y > usr@machine works just fine. > > I would not call my wife computer illiterate, but the last machine she > had to use for report card preps, (she's a long retired music teacher) > was a Packard-Bell with an 80286 cpu and dos-3.1 on floppies. She could > do it by hand in 1/3rd of the time. I have set her down at prior > versions of this keyboard, but running a mouse is beyond her. She spent > 34 years teaching grade school music in the county school system. > > > Hopefully tomás won't need to paraphrase this :) > > > > Cheers, > > David. > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett -- Jason
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| From | Christian Groessler <chris@groessler.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-01-09 16:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: UID 1000 on Raspberry Pi (Was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <v63xE-5ju-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #190825 |
On 01/09/18 04:49, Jason wrote: >> This I'd guess is important, if you have several users. I don't, except >> for amanda and nut, and thats only on this machine. All the rest have >> one user, me, known under various aliases because the idiot installer is >> now set to give the first user the machines name like pi or rock64. I >> spent a month trying to fix user 1000 to be me instead of pi on the pi. > On the Pi, this is what worked for me: > > 1. Add a new user (and add him to group sudo). This user gets ID 1001. > $ sudo adduser tempuser > $ sudo adduser tempuser sudo > > 2. Log out of user pi and log in as the newly created user. > > 3. Delete user pi (pi must not have any processes running) > $ sudo deluser pi > > 4. Add the desired username: > $ sudo adduser gene I just edited the password file directly, "vipw" and "vipw -s", and renamed the pi user. regards, chris
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| From | Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-01-09 16:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: UID 1000 on Raspberry Pi (Was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <v640G-5Nf-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #190843 |
On Tue, Jan 09, 2018 at 03:04:03PM +0100, Christian Groessler wrote: > On 01/09/18 04:49, Jason wrote: > > > This I'd guess is important, if you have several users. I don't, except > > > for amanda and nut, and thats only on this machine. All the rest have > > > one user, me, known under various aliases because the idiot installer is > > > now set to give the first user the machines name like pi or rock64. I > > > spent a month trying to fix user 1000 to be me instead of pi on the pi. > > On the Pi, this is what worked for me: > > > > 1. Add a new user (and add him to group sudo). This user gets ID 1001. > > $ sudo adduser tempuser > > $ sudo adduser tempuser sudo > > > > 2. Log out of user pi and log in as the newly created user. > > 3. Delete user pi (pi must not have any processes running) > > $ sudo deluser pi > > > > 4. Add the desired username: > > $ sudo adduser gene > > > I just edited the password file directly, "vipw" and "vipw -s", and renamed > the pi user. > Don't forget about occurrences of 'pi' in the group files (use 'vigr' and 'vigr -s' to catch those). Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez
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| From | Christian Groessler <chris@groessler.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-01-09 18:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: UID 1000 on Raspberry Pi (Was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <v65zr-6Q0-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #190846 |
On 01/09/18 16:01, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > Don't forget about occurrences of 'pi' in the group files (use 'vigr' > and 'vigr -s' to catch those). Yep. Forgot to mention that. regards, chris
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| From | Erik Christiansen <dvalin@internode.on.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-01-10 04:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: UID 1000 on Raspberry Pi (Was: Re: Embarrassing security bug in systemd) |
| Message-ID | <v6fyN-4HT-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #190843 |
On 09.01.18 15:04, Christian Groessler wrote: > I just edited the password file directly, "vipw" and "vipw -s", and renamed > the pi user. When doing that, there is merit in running pwck before any powerdown/reboot, as any illegality in a line stopped processing of all following when I last tried mucking it up. (A good reason for the root entry to be first.) And for vigr there's grpck. That's all we had in the decades before the newfangled useradd stuff came along. Erik
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