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Groups > linux.debian.user > #188193 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-10-23 04:20 +0200 |
| Last post | 2017-10-25 16:20 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 138 — 29 participants |
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Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-23 04:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-10-23 11:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-23 11:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-24 01:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-24 02:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-24 05:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-24 09:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-24 14:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-24 14:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-10-24 19:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-24 18:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 15:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-25 20:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roger Lynn <Roger@rilynn.me.uk> - 2017-10-25 00:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 04:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-23 13:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-23 18:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2017-10-23 18:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-23 23:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2017-10-24 00:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-24 02:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 03:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 05:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 05:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 06:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 13:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Alberto Luaces <aluaces@udc.es> - 2017-10-25 14:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 15:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-10-25 16:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-10-25 17:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 17:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-10-25 19:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 19:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2017-10-25 19:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 14:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-10-25 05:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 13:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 14:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? tomas@tuxteam.de - 2017-10-25 14:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-10-25 14:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-10-25 14:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 14:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-10-25 15:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2017-10-25 17:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 18:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 21:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 13:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-10-26 17:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-26 17:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-10-26 18:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-10-26 18:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-10-26 18:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-27 02:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-27 02:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2017-10-23 12:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 05:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 06:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 06:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-10-25 08:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 14:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 14:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 15:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 15:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-25 15:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-10-25 15:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 16:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 16:10 +0200
[SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 20:30 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 20:40 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-25 20:40 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-25 21:00 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 21:00 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 15:10 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-26 15:40 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 16:00 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 21:40 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 21:40 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-10-26 16:30 +0200
The new normal of logging Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2017-10-26 21:10 +0200
Re: The new normal of logging Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-10-26 21:30 +0200
Re: The new normal of logging Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-27 02:10 +0200
Re: The new normal of logging Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2017-10-27 03:30 +0200
Re: The new normal of logging Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-27 07:00 +0200
Re: The new normal of logging Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2017-10-28 04:50 +0200
Re: The new normal of logging Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-28 08:10 +0200
Re: The new normal of logging Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-10-27 04:10 +0200
Re: The new normal of logging Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-10-27 11:40 +0200
Plain text vs. binary (was Re: The new normal of logging) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-10-27 14:40 +0200
Re: The new normal of logging Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 21:30 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-27 17:10 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-27 17:50 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-10-27 20:30 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-10-27 20:50 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-10-27 21:50 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-27 22:00 +0200
Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-28 18:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-26 05:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 12:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-10-26 13:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 13:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-26 16:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-26 17:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-10-27 10:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-27 13:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-10-27 14:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-27 14:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-27 20:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-27 20:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-27 16:20 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-10-28 00:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-28 00:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-10-28 02:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-10-28 15:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Glenn English <ghe2001@gmail.com> - 2017-10-28 18:50 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-10-28 15:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-27 16:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-10-28 00:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-27 16:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2017-10-28 02:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-26 14:40 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roger Lynn <Roger@rilynn.me.uk> - 2017-11-04 00:30 +0100
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-11-04 08:50 +0100
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-11-04 13:10 +0100
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-11-04 22:00 +0100
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-11-04 22:10 +0100
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-11-04 22:10 +0100
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Pascal Hambourg <pascal@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2017-11-04 15:40 +0100
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-10-26 15:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-10-25 15:00 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 15:10 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2017-10-25 15:30 +0200
Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2017-10-25 16:20 +0200
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| From | Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-26 21:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? |
| Message-ID | <uEWat-15p-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188356 |
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:31:32PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: > On Thu, 26 Oct 2017, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > > I do have a syslog package installed and running. It is possible I > > misremembered what was previously logged where, but there is a clear > > discrepancy between what goes to syslog and what systemd captures: > > [...] > > > In particular, systemd appears to capture this line: > > > > ifup[35433]: mv: cannot move '/etc/resolv.conf.dhclient-new.35546' to > > '/etc/resolve.conf' > > That's because systemd also captures STDERR, even if that isn't directly > logged using syslog(). It's one of the rather nice features of systemd. > I've tripped over the different approach systemd takes so many times it is nice to finally encounter something it does better. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez
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| From | Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-26 16:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? |
| Message-ID | <uERku-6tm-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188339 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> wrote: > > Is this the new normal, for things to get captured in some systemd log > that I cannot grep out of /var/log? Unfortunately yes. My experience with Debian 8/9 and more recent Ubuntu is that there is now no escaping it. One could use instead the SysV init package in Debian, it seems to be fully usable in 9, but my management tells me that is not an option. Roberto C. Sánchez > >
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| From | Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-26 21:10 +0200 |
| Subject | The new normal of logging |
| Message-ID | <uEVHr-P4-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188339 |
Roberto C. Sánchez: > Is this the new normal, for things to get captured in some systemd log > [...]? > * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/294206/5132 Yes.
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| From | Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-26 21:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The new normal of logging |
| Message-ID | <uEW0O-11G-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188353 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard < J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@ntlworld.com> wrote: > Roberto C. Sánchez: > > Is this the new normal, for things to get captured in some systemd log >> [...]? >> >> * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/294206/5132 Yes. > Thanks for that. And quoting that article.... " And there's also systemd, that is slowly phagocytosing the UNIX part of Linux...." :-D
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 02:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The new normal of logging |
| Message-ID | <uF0nM-40u-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188354 |
On Thursday 26 October 2017 15:22:35 Nicholas Geovanis wrote: > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard < > > J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@ntlworld.com> wrote: > > Roberto C. Sánchez: > > > > Is this the new normal, for things to get captured in some systemd > > log > > > >> [...]? > >> > >> * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/294206/5132 Yes. > > Thanks for that. And quoting that article.... > " And there's also systemd, that is slowly phagocytosing the UNIX part > of Linux...." > > :-D I'm old enough to have taken phonics in grade school, but that obviously invented word could probably be replaced by a 4 letter adjective... Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 03:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The new normal of logging |
| Message-ID | <uF1Db-4Kx-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188362 |
On 27/10/17 13:02, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Thursday 26 October 2017 15:22:35 Nicholas Geovanis wrote: >> " And there's also systemd, that is slowly phagocytosing the UNIX part >> of Linux...." > I'm old enough to have taken phonics in grade school, but that obviously > invented word could probably be replaced by a 4 letter adjective... Invented, yes, but over 130 years ago. The term phagocyte was coined in about 1883 by Carl Friedrich Wilhelm Claus to describe the cells discovered by Ilya Mechnikov, winner of the 1908 Nobel Prize in Medicine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Friedrich_Wilhelm_Claus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Élie_Metchnikoff https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1908/ https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1908/mechnikov-bio.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phagocyte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phagocytosis And you would need a verb in the present tense, not an adjective, so probably more than four letters. Kind regards, -- Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> Director Transient Software Limited <http://transient.nz/> New Zealand
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 07:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The new normal of logging |
| Message-ID | <uF4Up-6WY-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188366 |
On Thursday 26 October 2017 21:21:37 Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote: > On 27/10/17 13:02, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Thursday 26 October 2017 15:22:35 Nicholas Geovanis wrote: > >> " And there's also systemd, that is slowly phagocytosing the UNIX > >> part of Linux...." > > > > I'm old enough to have taken phonics in grade school, but that > > obviously invented word could probably be replaced by a 4 letter > > adjective... > > Invented, yes, but over 130 years ago. The term phagocyte was coined > in about 1883 by Carl Friedrich Wilhelm Claus to describe the cells > discovered by Ilya Mechnikov, winner of the 1908 Nobel Prize in > Medicine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Friedrich_Wilhelm_Claus > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Élie_Metchnikoff > https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1908/ > https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1908/mechni >kov-bio.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phagocyte > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phagocytosis > > And you would need a verb in the present tense, not an adjective, so > probably more than four letters. > I agree. And obviously you have more educational credits hanging on the wall than I. My interest in the physical world did not include such early medicinal work, I had more interest in such things as capacitors and resistors, and am quite comfortable making vacuum tubes, or smart sand, do usefull work. But my formal was terminated at my freshman year in high school by a health problem, which when the cause, then several years into my working life, an allergy to milk! So stopping that was a huge help. But by then it was a bit late to attempt going back to high school, so I kept on covering the service benches for electronics related stuff. Eventually migrated to broadcasting, and put in about 25 years occupying the Chief Engineers office, last 18 of that as the CE at WDTV here in West Virginia, USA. I have been accused of walking on water electronically so these days, when I am purchaseing parts to make whatever and they want a business name, I am WOWElectronics. Along the way to 83 yo, I did collect other papers to hang on the wall, like a 1st Phone (never cracked a book, walked in cold) and a C.E.T. (ditto). Then my new wife, back in '89, has a Bachelors in Music, so she had me go take the GED. Didn't hear for 3 weeks, I ran into the test administrator at the P.O. one morning & asked about it. His reply was "why do you care? You were just doing it for the exercise, weren't you?" But I got it in the mail a couple days later. And I have a Diploma from the University of Hard Knocks, an honorary from the wife's alma mater. Its been quite a ride, all these years. Some sad parts of course, but impressing the frogs, carving pricy wood or making a machine run by linuxcnc, and now caring for that wife in the last year that COPD might yet give her, all combines to keep me out of the bars. You do what you have to do... > Kind regards, To you too, Ben Caradoc-Davies. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-28 04:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The new normal of logging |
| Message-ID | <uFpm9-4b5-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188377 |
On 27/10/17 17:52, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Thursday 26 October 2017 21:21:37 Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote: >> On 27/10/17 13:02, Gene Heskett wrote: >>> On Thursday 26 October 2017 15:22:35 Nicholas Geovanis wrote: >>>> " And there's also systemd, that is slowly phagocytosing the UNIX >>>> part of Linux...." >>> I'm old enough to have taken phonics in grade school, but that >>> obviously invented word could probably be replaced by a 4 letter >>> adjective... >> Invented, yes, but over 130 years ago. The term phagocyte was coined >> in about 1883 by Carl Friedrich Wilhelm Claus to describe the cells >> discovered by Ilya Mechnikov, winner of the 1908 Nobel Prize in >> Medicine > I agree. And obviously you have more educational credits hanging on the > wall than I. Just my medical parents describing their then-teenage children devouring food. :-) Kind regards, -- Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> Director Transient Software Limited <http://transient.nz/> New Zealand
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-28 08:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The new normal of logging |
| Message-ID | <uFstH-6w3-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188415 |
On Friday 27 October 2017 22:47:26 Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote: > On 27/10/17 17:52, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Thursday 26 October 2017 21:21:37 Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote: > >> On 27/10/17 13:02, Gene Heskett wrote: > >>> On Thursday 26 October 2017 15:22:35 Nicholas Geovanis wrote: > >>>> " And there's also systemd, that is slowly phagocytosing the UNIX > >>>> part of Linux...." > >>> > >>> I'm old enough to have taken phonics in grade school, but that > >>> obviously invented word could probably be replaced by a 4 letter > >>> adjective... > >> > >> Invented, yes, but over 130 years ago. The term phagocyte was > >> coined in about 1883 by Carl Friedrich Wilhelm Claus to describe > >> the cells discovered by Ilya Mechnikov, winner of the 1908 Nobel > >> Prize in Medicine > > > > I agree. And obviously you have more educational credits hanging on > > the wall than I. > > Just my medical parents describing their then-teenage children > devouring food. :-) ROTFLMAO! > Kind regards, Back at you. Take care. I don't think either of us wants to make the papers. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 04:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The new normal of logging |
| Message-ID | <uF2fT-5gF-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188362 |
Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> writes: > On Thursday 26 October 2017 15:22:35 Nicholas Geovanis wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard < >> >> J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@ntlworld.com> wrote: >> > Roberto C. Sánchez: >> > >> > Is this the new normal, for things to get captured in some systemd >> > log >> > >> >> [...]? >> >> >> >> * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/294206/5132 Yes. >> >> Thanks for that. And quoting that article.... >> " And there's also systemd, that is slowly phagocytosing the UNIX part >> of Linux...." >> >> :-D > > I'm old enough to have taken phonics in grade school, but that obviously > invented word could probably be replaced by a 4 letter adjective... You got me curious -- apparently phagocytosis was named in 1880. But yes, systemd seems to be attempting to subsume all other daemons, and is pretty worrying for that reason...
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| From | Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 11:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The new normal of logging |
| Message-ID | <uF9ho-1DR-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188354 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 02:22:35PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote: > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <[1]J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@ntlworld.com> wrote: > > Roberto C. Sánchez: > > Is this the new normal, for things to get captured in some systemd log [...]? > > * [2]https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/294206/5132 Yes. > > Thanks for that. And quoting that article.... > " And there's also systemd, that is slowly phagocytosing the UNIX part of Linux...." > :-D In my opinion, most of the bad press that systemd gets is down to its implementation, rather than its purpose. Writing an init system that spawns shell scripts to start daemons is easy, but the shell scripts lead to all sorts of bad code. The declarative syntax of systemd/upstart/etc init systems is MUCH cleaner. Similarly, writing the syslog to a plain text file is easy, but it makes parsing times difficult, it can lose some of the finer points of meaning and so on. A binary format is, really, nothing to be feared, so long as the format is as well defined as plain text (because, when you look at it, plain text IS binary, it's just an astoundingly well-agreed encoding). > >References > > Visible links > 1. mailto:J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@ntlworld.com > 2. https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/294206/5132 -- For more information, please reread.
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| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 14:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Plain text vs. binary (was Re: The new normal of logging) |
| Message-ID | <uFc5z-3za-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188381 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 2017-10-27 at 05:36, Darac Marjal wrote: > A binary format is, really, nothing to be feared, so long as the > format is as well defined as plain text (because, when you look at > it, plain text IS binary, it's just an astoundingly well-agreed > encoding). The binary format underlying plain text does have one additional noteworthy characteristic, though: it is intended to map *directly* to something that is, in theory, human-readable. The glyphs which are being encoded are simply letters, numbers, et cetera; these are almost universally recognized, and once the trivial translation from binary form for display is completed, if you don't understand what the result means you at least have something on which you can base searches and questions. With any other binary format, you have to either have the domain-specific knowledge necessary to understand the meaning of the glyphs which were encoded into the binary format, or let something which *does* have that understanding - generally, a specialized tool - perform an additional layer of translation after translating from binary form into those glyphs. Only after that can you realistically start to put together searches and questions if you don't understand the result. (Barring the sort of people who are sufficiently technically competent to be able to reverse-engineer file formats in a clean-room environment, which is a relatively rare skill.) IMO that's a meaningful additional layer of burden. Plus, having a *single* format to use for interchange has the advantage that you only need to have *one* set of tools on hand to translate its encoded form into the glyphs being represented; if multiple formats exist, you need to either have the tools for each of them on hand, or be able to do the work of translating in your head on the fly every time, which is nontrivial in most cases. Very few - if any - formats other than plain text are sufficiently general to be suitable for use for every conceivable thing-to-be-represented, without needing to be extended for the purpose (with a corresponding extension of the translating tools). Admittedly that's because plain text lets you implement other encoding systems on top of it (from the various human languages, to e.g. INI-file format, to things like uuencoding, and so forth), but there the fact that the immediate superficial readability lets you start to form meaningful questions and searches comes in again; if there's any other file format which enables something comparable, I'm not finding myself able to think of it. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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| From | Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-26 21:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The new normal of logging |
| Message-ID | <uEW0O-11G-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188353 |
On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 07:46:12PM +0100, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > Roberto C. Sánchez: > > > Is this the new normal, for things to get captured in some systemd log > > [...]? > > > * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/294206/5132 Yes. > That is very informative. In particular: | If it can connect (as a client) to an AF_LOCAL datagram socket at | /run/systemd/journal/syslog it writes journal data there, if forwarding | to syslog is configured. I need to make sure that I have that forwarding propery configured on my systems. Then also: | systemd itself arranges for the standard outputs and errors of (some) | services to be attached to the /run/systemd/journal/stdout socket. So | dæmons that log to standard error in the normal fashion have their | output sent to the journal. That does seem quite useful and from what I have experienced the last few days nicely handles the case where something that should log to syslog calls a command and then ignores its stdout/stderr. The systemd journal was seeing that stderr text where syslog was not. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez
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| From | Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 17:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? |
| Message-ID | <uFeqL-5oI-65@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188309 |
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 02:26:35PM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > > In any event, thanks to all who helped and who provided hints on things > to investigate/try. Later today I will update the poorly written wiki > article [0] to explain that immutable is a troubleshooting approach and > I will add documentation about how to properly configure dhclient when > changes to /etc/resolv.conf are undesirable. > I finally got around to updating the wiki page today. Here is the link for those who wish to have it as a reference or perhaps would like to contribute to further improving it: https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf I also made a comment to https://bugs.debian.org/860928 regarding the temporary files that dhclient leaves cluttering /etc if the mv to /etc/resolv.conf fails (e.g., because it is immutable). I also filed https://bugs.debian.org/879949 as a wishlist bug to have dhclient-script include a header comment in /etc/resolv.conf. Thanks again to everyone who participated in the thread. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez
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| From | Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 17:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? |
| Message-ID | <uFf3r-5Dt-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188391 |
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:03:38AM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > I finally got around to updating the wiki page today. Here is the link > for those who wish to have it as a reference or perhaps would like to > contribute to further improving it: > > https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf I've made a few changes as well.
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 20:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? |
| Message-ID | <uFhyh-7py-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188392 |
On 2017-10-27, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote: > On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:03:38AM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: >> I finally got around to updating the wiki page today. Here is the link >> for those who wish to have it as a reference or perhaps would like to >> contribute to further improving it: >> >> https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf > > I've made a few changes as well. > > Weird wiki. From "my issues" (sic) down it switches from third to first-person narration by what I suspect is a Germanophone and all hell breaks loose (grammatically speaking). -- "A simpering Bambi narcissist and a thieving, fanatical Albanian dwarf." Christopher Hitchens, commenting shortly after the nearly concurrent deaths of Lady Diana and Mother Theresa.
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 20:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? |
| Message-ID | <uFhRF-7yz-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188398 |
On Fri 27 Oct 2017 at 18:27:09 +0000, Curt wrote:
> On 2017-10-27, Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:03:38AM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> >> I finally got around to updating the wiki page today. Here is the link
> >> for those who wish to have it as a reference or perhaps would like to
> >> contribute to further improving it:
> >>
> >> https://wiki.debian.org/resolv.conf
> >
> > I've made a few changes as well.
> >
> >
>
> Weird wiki. From "my issues" (sic) down it switches from third to
> first-person narration by what I suspect is a Germanophone and all hell
> breaks loose (grammatically speaking).
It's a wiki. That tells you something. ("someone else apart from me
can do it" is not your response, if you choose to give one).
--
Brian.
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 21:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? |
| Message-ID | <uFiNI-8aP-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188403 |
On 2017-10-27, Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>>
>> Weird wiki. From "my issues" (sic) down it switches from third to
>> first-person narration by what I suspect is a Germanophone and all hell
>> breaks loose (grammatically speaking).
>
> It's a wiki. That tells you something. ("someone else apart from me
> can do it" is not your response, if you choose to give one).
>
My response is two venerable hot-shots from this very forum ventured
into that rather short wiki within the last 24 hours, made edits,
advertised them here, but couldn't be bothered to fix the fucking thing
and as a lesser mortal amongst you high-falutin sons of bitches I
figured it must not be worth the effort (to fix).
So there. Find a convenient lake, B., and go jump in.
Thank you.
Over and out.
--
"A simpering Bambi narcissist and a thieving, fanatical Albanian dwarf."
Christopher Hitchens, commenting shortly after the nearly concurrent deaths
of Lady Diana and Mother Theresa.
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| From | Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-27 22:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? |
| Message-ID | <uFiXo-8f1-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188405 |
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 07:47:49PM +0000, Curt wrote: > My response is two venerable hot-shots from this very forum ventured > into that rather short wiki within the last 24 hours, made edits, > advertised them here, but couldn't be bothered to fix the fucking thing > and as a lesser mortal amongst you high-falutin sons of bitches I > figured it must not be worth the effort (to fix). Well. The question is whether to delete that section, or to leave it in place. There is no urgent need to delete it, because it is not factually *wrong*. It's simply someone's anecdotal experience. Likewise, there's no reason to correct the grammar. The grammar and the shell commands are both awkward and unpolished. Fixing the grammar and leaving those awful shell commands unchanged would give the mistaken impression that those shell commands are actually good. The way it's written now, anyone who reads English semi-fluently can tell that it's an anecdotal appendix, and not a preferred solution. If you feel that it's better to delete the whole section, then that's your call. My preference is to leave content in place wherever possible, unless the content is wrong, misleading, full of errors, etc. For all I know, "Debian 8.8.4.4" may be someone's google search terms that lead them to this page. Once they get to the page, then they can read about the issues and the various ways to achieve their goal.
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| From | Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-10-28 18:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: [SOLVED] Re: Why does resolv.conf keep changing? |
| Message-ID | <uFC9I-3Ys-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #188309 |
On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 09:45:18AM +0000, Bonno Bloksma wrote: > Hi Roberto, > > I am glad you have things resolved and discovered some things that could be improved. Thanks. > I do have one question about your solution. > > You write: > > >> This is clearly evidence that the problem is with dhclient > >> (isc-dhcp-client in my case). I am taking another look at the > >> supersede directives in /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf to make sure that I am > >> specifying them correctly. > > > OK. I was able to dig into this I resolved the problem by telling dhclient to not request the bits of information that would trigger a change to /etc/resolv.conf. > [....] > So that was one way to resolve the problem. > > But then you write: > > Another approach which worked equally well was to specify the supersede directive with the values I preferred for domain-name, domain-search, and domain-name-servers. > > And this seems weird as the very first thing you wrote a week ago was: > >>> The second thing I tried was adding to /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf: > >>> > >>> supersede domain-name example.com; > >>> supersede domain-search example.com.; > >>> supersede domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1; > >>> > >>> This similarly has no lasting effect, which is really surprising to me. > > So does the supersede directive work after all, as it is supposed to do? > > I have been using the prepend directive for years to make sure my own > dns servers got listed before the ISP one. That way if my internal dns > server would ever fail I would have a fallback to the ISP dns server. > Maybe not perfect but it would leave me with at least some dns > capability. > > I now have a fixed ip address on the ISP connection so I can no longer > test this, which is why I did not respond before when you stated the > supersede directive did not work. > > But could you clear up whether the supersede still works if properly > listed in /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf ? > Yes, the supersede directive works. I believe that the error I had in my configuration was that the supersede lines were listed after the request line, but they needed to occur prior to the request line. This seemed rather unintuitive to me. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez
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