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Groups > linux.debian.user > #172068 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-09-12 01:00 +0200 |
| Last post | 2016-09-13 21:20 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 59 — 13 participants |
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Fwd: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-12 01:00 +0200
Re: Fwd: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> - 2016-09-12 01:20 +0200
Re: Fwd: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-12 04:50 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-12 05:20 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-12 12:50 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-12 20:20 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-12 21:20 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 00:40 +0200
Re: icedove: failed to connect server XXX@gmail.com "Neal P. Murphy" <neal.p.murphy@alum.wpi.edu> - 2016-09-13 01:10 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-13 15:00 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-13 16:50 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-13 19:10 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-13 21:40 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 22:10 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-13 23:20 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-09-13 19:30 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 23:00 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-14 03:00 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-14 08:50 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-14 11:10 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-14 17:40 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 19:00 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-14 21:00 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 21:10 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-14 22:50 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-14 23:20 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 00:10 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 01:40 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 02:00 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 12:10 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 14:40 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 20:10 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 23:50 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-15 02:20 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-15 02:10 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...) Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-09-15 12:10 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-15 12:50 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2016-09-15 13:00 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 18:20 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Tony Baldwin <tonybaldwin@gmx.com> - 2016-09-15 18:50 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...) Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-15 19:50 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 20:00 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 20:30 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 22:50 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast (was: How to get Jessie to run...) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-09-15 20:10 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-15 21:30 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> - 2016-09-16 03:10 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 03:40 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-16 04:40 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-09-16 11:10 +0200
Re: internet connectivity from Comcast Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-09-16 05:00 +0200
Re: Windows Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-09-16 10:40 +0200
Re: Windows Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 13:10 +0200
Re: Windows Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 13:40 +0200
Re: Windows (really about cut&paste) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-16 16:20 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 09:30 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-09-14 09:30 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-13 22:00 +0200
Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2016-09-13 21:20 +0200
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| From | Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-12 01:00 +0200 |
| Subject | Fwd: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved |
| Message-ID | <sglTb-3Dd-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
I tried to send this only to Brian, but he has set his system to
not accept messages to him. So I have to send this to the whole
List. Sorry.
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Alan McConnell" <alan@his.com>
To: "Brian" <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 3:38:06 PM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
This only to you, Brian.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian" <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 2:51:50 PM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 15:17:00 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:
> On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 11:13:45 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:
>
> > Addendum: during my Jessie install, the install program commented at one point:
> > "There doesn't seem to be any other OS on your system". Jeez!! I hope some
> > maintainer reads this complaint and Debian works hard to make sure that the
>
> What is the exact name and version of this OS which is not found?
> <LOL> Windows 10. If there is a more exact name, I don't know it.
Deconstruction of this statement follows:
Brian, you are in a bad temper. Did you read the amended title of this
and previous messages? "Problem solved".
Suggestion: simply don't reply to any of my (perhaps) forthcoming questions
and/or comments. That will save both you and me time and spare us both
annoyance.
Best wishes,
Alan McConnell
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| From | Dutch Ingraham <stoa@gmx.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-12 01:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgmcx-3Yy-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172068 |
On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 06:49:47PM -0400, Alan McConnell wrote: > Deconstruction of this statement follows: > Brian, you are in a bad temper. Did you read the amended title of this > and previous messages? "Problem solved". > > Suggestion: simply don't reply to any of my (perhaps) forthcoming questions > and/or comments. That will save both you and me time and spare us both > annoyance. Given your responses to someone who was, in any event, trying to help, cross me off your list as well. *PLONK*
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-12 04:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgptL-5TD-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172068 |
On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 18:49:47 (-0400), Alan McConnell wrote:
> From: "Brian" <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 2:51:50 PM
> Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
>
> On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 15:17:00 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:
>
> > On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 11:13:45 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:
> >
> > > Addendum: during my Jessie install, the install program commented at one point:
> > > "There doesn't seem to be any other OS on your system". Jeez!! I hope some
> > > maintainer reads this complaint and Debian works hard to make sure that the
> >
> > What is the exact name and version of this OS which is not found?
> > <LOL> Windows 10. If there is a more exact name, I don't know it.
>
> Deconstruction of this statement follows:
> Brian, you are in a bad temper. Did you read the amended title of this
> and previous messages? "Problem solved".
>
> Suggestion: simply don't reply to any of my (perhaps) forthcoming questions
> and/or comments. That will save both you and me time and spare us both
> annoyance.
This is a summary of what I've gleaned from your posts:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/09/msg00296.html
How do I boot the new jessie installation?
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/09/msg00337.html
I don't need [rescue mode].
I played with the BIOS.
I am busy installing stuff.
How do I do it? [sic]
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/09/msg00364.html
Do I want to install a different grub?
I'd like a response from one of them(if they exist here) letting me
know how [a dual boot system] works.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/09/msg00398.html
What works for me now is the following: [and your solution]
I shudder to think of someone taking my advice [etc]
Jeez!! I hope some maintainer reads this complaint and Debian works
hard to make sure that the operation of installing a second OS(Linux)
on a Windoze box is as easy and error-proof as it is possible to make it.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/09/msg00408.html
Why? why all this? What good will it do? to anyone? To do this I'd
have to get out of this URL(mail.his.com), shut down my Windoze,
reboot to Jessie, copy the output you are requesting to a piece of
paper, and then get back here.(*)
May I ask: are you the Debian installation maintainer? if you are,
I'd be happy to work with you.
Now, I'm happy that you have what you consider is a working solution.
I don't know what you see when you press F12, and I don't understand
what the "L or M" business is in times past.
I can't find any description of what your actual problem is, with
some symptoms, other than that the computer doesn't do what you want
it to do, in some way that's unspecified.
I don't think that the maintainers of grub or the Debian installer
will be interested in this, beyond asking you to read the Debian
installation guide and the grub documentation (a long web page).
You need to report more specifically where what you read diverges
from what happens with your computer, including objective descriptions
of the problem rather than vague complaints.
People here will try to help you, but they can't divine what's
happening on your machine in the absence of facts. If there's really
a bug, then you may get help on how to either fix it, or report it
in such a way that the busy maintainers can isolate and act upon it.
Re your last post quoted above, what's the problem with running jessie
and reporting the information you were asked for? I assume that you
installed jessie so that you could run it occasionally.
I know some people on this list treat it like the telephone ("I'm
going to bed now, and will try it in the morning" kind of thing) but
the list will wait for the next occasion that you boot up your jessie.
In fact, it often pays *not* to give quick responses because it gives
you time to think on the problem, and you *are* the best-placed
person to come up with a solution (as you have done, in a way).
Cheers,
David.
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-12 05:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgpWO-6ix-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172073 |
David Wright composed on 2016-09-11 21:44 (UTC-0500): ... >> Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved ... How is it beneficial to list anyone here or searching list archives to continue a thread by chastising an OP for being imperfect more than 12 hours after OP added string "solved" to the subject and thanked people who provided useful help? https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/09/msg00398.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-12 12:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgwYh-268-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172074 |
On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 23:14:26 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: > David Wright composed on 2016-09-11 21:44 (UTC-0500): > ... > >>Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved > ... > How is it beneficial to list anyone here or searching list archives to > continue a thread by chastising an OP for being imperfect more than 12 hours > after OP added string "solved" to the subject and thanked people who > provided useful help? > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/09/msg00398.html The "solution" is very suboptimal in the context of Debian and GRUB and does not help anyone having the same problem, particularily if a bug is involved. (I do not know where you get the 12 hours from. bendel.debian.org sent the mail to me at 15:14:19 +0000 (UTC). My reply arrived at bendel by 18:32:58 +0000 (UTC) on the same day. I also hadn't appreciated that this list had a time limit set on replies sent to it).
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| From | Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-12 20:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgDZM-6Vq-33@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172074 |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix Miata" <mrmazda@earthlink.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 10:14:26 PM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
David Wright composed on 2016-09-11 21:44 (UTC-0500):
...
>> Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
...
How is it beneficial to list anyone here or searching list archives to
continue a thread by chastising an OP for being imperfect more than 12 hours
after OP added string "solved" to the subject and thanked people who provided
useful help?
<LOL> Hurrah for Felix! He got it.
I don't know what I have to apologize for. Did I say anything impolite? I'm not
conscious of having done so. Maybe I should apologize for "hijacking a thread"?
As Felix and maybe a few others have noticed, I can now log on to either my Windoze
or to Jessie, which is what I originally inquired about. I persist in thinking
that the procedure I am using is cumbersome, and I hope
that a new release of installation SW will a) be sure to detect another OS during
the installation, and b) will ensure that grub puts a good notice/question up on a
beginning screen for people to click on(or perhaps use the arrow keys) to indicate
which OS they wish to boot.
To conclude this topic: the folks who think I'm rude or uncooperative or both clearly
have the option to ignore in future anything/everything that I write. I hope they
will take advantage of this option.
Now I have a follow-on question: I'd like to be able, from Jessie, to copy files to and from my
Windoze system. I haven't really tried simply cd-ing to e.g. /dev/sda1, which is the partition
containing my Windoze stuff. Is that what you dual OS users do? is there some subtle mount
command that you use? I shall be most grateful for any instructions, or even suggestions.
Best wishes to all,
Alan McConnell
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-12 21:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgEVP-7xR-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172090 |
On Mon 12 Sep 2016 at 14:14:53 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote: > From: "Felix Miata" <mrmazda@earthlink.net> > ... > How is it beneficial to list anyone here or searching list archives to > continue a thread by chastising an OP for being imperfect more than 12 hours > after OP added string "solved" to the subject and thanked people who provided > useful help? > <LOL> Hurrah for Felix! He got it. You are both on the same page, then. Keep together and ward off the people who ask questions or request information. It will give you a cosier world. > I don't know what I have to apologize for. Did I say anything impolite? I'm not > conscious of having done so. Maybe I should apologize for > "hijacking a thread"? Was anyone at all impolite? > As Felix and maybe a few others have noticed, I can now log on to either my Windoze > or to Jessie, which is what I originally inquired about. I persist in thinking > that the procedure I am using is cumbersome, and I hope You are quite correct - the procedure is cumbersome. In fact, it is naff. But you have it as a "solution" and are happy with it and do not want to alter it. Who are we to argue and try to seek a technical solution? > that a new release of installation SW will a) be sure to detect another OS during > the installation, and b) will ensure that grub puts a good notice/question up on a > beginning screen for people to click on(or perhaps use the arrow keys) to indicate > which OS they wish to boot. We are working on it. Debian Central has realised that there are holes in its installation for some users with names beginning with "Alan". A fix will be sent out when we have dealt with Abarrane. Meanwhile, follow the advice on -user. You seem to have ignored most of it. > To conclude this topic: the folks who think I'm rude or uncooperative or both clearly > have the option to ignore in future anything/everything that I write. I hope they > will take advantage of this option. > > Now I have a follow-on question: I'd like to be able, from Jessie, to copy files to and from my > Windoze system. I haven't really tried simply cd-ing to e.g. /dev/sda1, which is the partition > containing my Windoze stuff. Is that what you dual OS users do? is there some subtle mount > command that you use? I shall be most grateful for any instructions, or even suggestions. Follow-on questions go in different threads. It keeps things tidy and manageable. Please start a new one on this topic.
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| From | Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 00:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgI3o-1jG-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172090 |
On Monday 12 September 2016 19:14:53 Alan McConnell wrote: > Maybe I should apologize for "hijacking a thread"? Yes, you should. It has left the person whose thread you have hijacked high and dry. It is most definitely "not done" to hijack threads. By those who care about etiquette and other people, that is. Brian was offering you a good technical solution that would actually have solved your problem, instead of a "cobble", which you say that Debian should fix. Even God is said only to help those who help themselves. Lisi. PS I have been trying to help mudongliang, unsuccessfully. But thereby hangs another thread. Please someone else, his question has still not been answered. Are all attempts to answer it being spam-checked out of existence??
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| From | "Neal P. Murphy" <neal.p.murphy@alum.wpi.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 01:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: icedove: failed to connect server XXX@gmail.com |
| Message-ID | <sgIwq-1K1-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172100 |
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 23:38:56 +0100 Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> wrote: > PS I have been trying to help mudongliang, unsuccessfully. But thereby hangs > another thread. Please someone else, his question has still not been > answered. Are all attempts to answer it being spam-checked out of > existence?? > [I trust this will appear in the desired thread; I changed the subject back....] A few things I can think of (which generally reflect your suggestions): - username changed in settings or at gmail - password changed in settings or at gmail - port changed in settings or at gmail (between encrypted and non-encrypted, for example) - DNS problems - SSL versus startTLS - change between IMAP and POP3 - firewall blockage (but not *too* likely, since other servers can be accessed) - encryption schemes that are no longer valid (like SSL2 or SSL3 but, again, not *too* likely*) N P.S. Related to another thread (about email programs), another shortcoming of Claws Mail is that there's no way to see/edit *all* a reply's headers; otherwise, I would've adjusted this message's Message-id header to match that of the O.P.'s message and make this reply appear in the right place in the thread. I don't have the original message to reply to.
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| From | Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 15:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgVtE-24i-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172100 |
Warning: This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback against
various insinuations that have been made.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisi Reisz" <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 5:38:56 PM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
On Monday 12 September 2016 19:14:53 Alan McConnell wrote:
> Maybe I should apologize for "hijacking a thread"?
Yes, you should. It has left the person whose thread you have hijacked high
and dry. It is most definitely "not done" to hijack threads. By those who
care about etiquette and other people, that is.
You have got to be kidding! I have stolen(the meaning of "hijacking")
nothing. Nothing prevents you or anyone else from ignoring what I write or
have written and concentrating on the other messages in this thread.
You talk about etiquette. I have, over the past twenty years, set up
at least three E-lists; one about Linux(lwob), one about music(vlaviworld)
and the third about politics(waifllc, using Meetup). I never prescribed
any form of behavior for my members, and I'm surprised that you take it on
yourself to do so for debian-users.
Besides: since I added "Problem solved" to the Subject line, I am now posting
under a different thread. However, you or anyone else are free to use it for
further lessons in etiquette, or anything else you choose.<g>
Brian was offering you a good technical solution that would actually have
solved your problem, instead of a "cobble", which you say that Debian should
fix.
He was doing no such thing. He asked a bunch of questions like "What was the
version of Windoze I was using?" ! ? ! He offered no solution at all that improved
on what I use. I'll get to Brian more in a moment.
Even God is said only to help those who help themselves.
I _have_ helped myself! And I am fortunate that I have been able to draw the
attention of a real expert, Felix Miata, who combines his expertize with an
ability to read, and a reluctance to preach. Would that you and Brian would
emulate him.
On to Brian! You, Brian, ask: was anyone impolite? I was accused of being impolite and
I reject the accusation. I will, however, remark that your series of "deconstructions"
verge on the smarmy. Do you claim that they were useful, or even relevant?
And what am I, or anyone, to think of your assertions about "Debian Central" or "Abarrane"?
Is it your claim that such comments are useful, or relevant, or even polite?
Again, for the third time: I hope that an new release of the Debian installation SW
will be able to detect when another OS is already on the system, and that a proper and
simple procedure will be put in place for e.g. newbies to Linux or to dual-bootable
systems to be able to choose between the systems immediately after the machine self-test.
Finally: I have taken a resolution not to respond to further chastisement or smarm.
Please help me to keep it!
Best wishes, even to Lisi and Brian!
Alan
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 16:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgXc6-3cQ-31@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172123 |
On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 08:57:19 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:
> Warning: This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback against
> various insinuations that have been made.
Warning duly noted; most of this mail is snipped so we can concentrate
on the technical aspects of your issue.
[...Snippety-snip...]
> Again, for the third time: I hope that an new release of the Debian installation SW
> will be able to detect when another OS is already on the system, and that a proper and
> simple procedure will be put in place for e.g. newbies to Linux or to dual-bootable
> systems to be able to choose between the systems immediately after the machine self-test.
You were asked for some information. You declined to provide it. As a
route to solving a technical problem your response leaves a lot to be
desired.
The output of interest is from os-prober. You know what it, unless you
are so uninterested in seeking a solution you haven't even run it or are
keeping what it says to yourself.
If you had clue and had provided a decent, useful response you would
then have been directed to read /usr/lib/os-probes/mounted/20microsoft.
The light would then have dawned (perhaps). All the time you would be
learning and helping yourself. But no - whinging wins out. Far easier
for you to that than think for yourself.
You may be interested to know that the Debian Fairy has waved her magic
wand and made your machine dual bootable. From os-prober's changelog on
unstable:
* Add support for Windows 10 (otherwise reported as Windows Recovery
Environment). Thanks, Philipp Wolfer! (Closes: #801278).
-- Cyril Brulebois <kibi@debian.org> Thu, 08 Oct 2015 14:26:16 +0200
With this information your every desire can be realised. Your problem
now has a proper solution. Surely what you can do to have a dual boot
doesn't need spelling out?
> Finally: I have taken a resolution not to respond to further chastisement or smarm.
> Please help me to keep it!
I don't do smarm. If you perceived what I wrote to be that, it reveals a
weakness in my irony, sarcasm and mild insults modules.
--
Brian.
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| From | Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 19:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgZnz-4O6-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172126 |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian" <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 9:40:11 AM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 08:57:19 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:
> Warning: This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback against
> various insinuations that have been made.
Warning duly noted; most of this mail is snipped so we can concentrate
on the technical aspects of your issue.
Excellent.
You were asked for some information. You declined to provide it. As a
route to solving a technical problem your response leaves a lot to be
desired.
Did you read why I declined? I repeat my reason for your benefit:
getting information from my only partially installed Jessie means
shutting down my Windoze OS(I'm writing this from my Windows OS),
turning on my Jessie, and writing a bunch of detailed information on
a piece of paper, shutting down Jessie and returning to Windoze and
transcribing what my paper said to an E-mail. That process requires
a lot of error-prone steps, and you or someone else might have called
for an iteration, which would have driven me up the wall.
The output of interest is from os-prober. You know what it, unless you
are so uninterested in seeking a solution you haven't even run it or are
keeping what it says to yourself.
I ran os-prober. I can't here reproduce what it gave me, but it
didn't reveal the OS that came with the just purchased machine.
Which leads me to my often-stated conclusion: since the install
program stated "No other OS can be found on this machine", the
installer is broken.
You may be interested to know that the Debian Fairy has waved her magic
wand and made your machine dual bootable. From os-prober's changelog on
unstable:
Good grief, Brian. What I have is Jessie. But it is good to
know that attention is being paid to this issue, and the installer
for stretch may be an improvement.
> Finally: I have taken a resolution not to respond to further chastisement or smarm.
> Please help me to keep it!
I don't do smarm. If you perceived what I wrote to be that, it reveals a
weakness in my irony, sarcasm and mild insults modules.
<LOL> I did perceive it. Advice: delete your ISMI module and pay
more attention to your courteous and helpful module. Which I'm sure
exists<g>.
A final question: I've used Wiktionary to learn that 'whinging' is the English
for what we Murricans call 'whining'. Is it used a lot nowadays? I don't recall
ever having heard it when I taught at Royal Holloway College back in 1967-68.
Alan
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 21:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sh1IJ-6cg-27@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172131 |
On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 13:01:58 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote: > You were asked for some information. You declined to provide it. As a > route to solving a technical problem your response leaves a lot to be > desired. > Did you read why I declined? I repeat my reason for your benefit: I imagine your question is rhetorical, so it has no real edge to it and does not require me to give an impression of an affronted user. The repetition is unnecessary as it simply confirms you went into "sod this for a game of soldiers" mode and started digging a deeper hole for yourself. > getting information from my only partially installed Jessie means > shutting down my Windoze OS(I'm writing this from my Windows OS), > turning on my Jessie, and writing a bunch of detailed information on > a piece of paper, shutting down Jessie and returning to Windoze and > transcribing what my paper said to an E-mail. That process requires > a lot of error-prone steps, and you or someone else might have called > for an iteration, which would have driven me up the wall. > > The output of interest is from os-prober. You know what it, unless you > are so uninterested in seeking a solution you haven't even run it or are > keeping what it says to yourself. > I ran os-prober. I can't here reproduce what it gave me, but it > didn't reveal the OS that came with the just purchased machine. Even saying that would have given us a hook to hang a response on. Not giving a precis alongside your other output was a bad move because it altered the focus. Verbatim output is always best but a summary is better than nothing. Verbatim output =10/10 Verbatim output+whine =7/10 (Diverts responses away from output) Summary =6/10 (There is some value in it) Summary+whine =3/10 (Diverts responses away from output) Whine only =0/10 > Which leads me to my often-stated conclusion: since the install > program stated "No other OS can be found on this machine", the > installer is broken. Broken? Mmm. Windows 10 was released on 29th July 2015. The Jessie installer was released on 25th April 2015; there are indeed updates to it but only for important features like security. "Ah", you will say, what about d-i's DivineTheFuture package? Well, it failed abysmally, although some Debian developers made a fortune from betting on the Grand National using its predictions. (Warning: Fantasy module switched on full). > You may be interested to know that the Debian Fairy has waved her magic > wand and made your machine dual bootable. From os-prober's changelog on > unstable: > Good grief, Brian. What I have is Jessie. But it is good to > know that attention is being paid to this issue, and the installer > for stretch may be an improvement. You've completely missed the point. Try saying to yourself I wish my machine had a file like unstable's or testing's and then figure out how it could have such a file. (The os-prober output would tell you whether what you did worked). This is the central section in this mail. If you reply to anything you should reply to this. > > Finally: I have taken a resolution not to respond to further chastisement or smarm. > > Please help me to keep it! > > I don't do smarm. If you perceived what I wrote to be that, it reveals a > weakness in my irony, sarcasm and mild insults modules. > <LOL> I did perceive it. Advice: delete your ISMI module and pay > more attention to your courteous and helpful module. Which I'm sure > exists<g>. It doesn't seem possible. Every time I make an attempt I hear a melody and a voice singing "Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer....." > A final question: I've used Wiktionary to learn that 'whinging' is the English > for what we Murricans call 'whining'. Is it used a lot nowadays? I don't recall > ever having heard it when I taught at Royal Holloway College back in 1967-68. Language changes. One hopes modes of thinking on -user will adapt too. -- Brian.
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| From | Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 22:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sh2bL-6Dm-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172138 |
On Tuesday 13 September 2016 20:30:20 Brian wrote: > > A final question: I've used Wiktionary to learn that 'whinging' is the > > English for what we Murricans call 'whining'. Is it used a lot nowadays? > > I don't recall ever having heard it when I taught at Royal Holloway > > College back in 1967-68. > > Language changes. One hopes modes of thinking on -user will adapt too. I had to check whether there were any (other) men at Royal Holloway (a women's college) in 1967 .... (There were - just.) Lisi
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 23:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sh3hv-7k8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172140 |
On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 21:02:01 (+0100), Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Tuesday 13 September 2016 20:30:20 Brian wrote: > > > A final question: I've used Wiktionary to learn that 'whinging' is the > > > English for what we Murricans call 'whining'. Is it used a lot nowadays? > > > I don't recall ever having heard it when I taught at Royal Holloway > > > College back in 1967-68. > > > > Language changes. One hopes modes of thinking on -user will adapt too. > > I had to check whether there were any (other) men at Royal Holloway (a women's > college) in 1967 .... (There were - just.) I don't think either of the constituents of RubberNeck disallowed men on the *staff*. (I also didn't realise they dropped the Neck out of their name, although Royal Holloway and Bedford New College remains their legal name.) Cheers, David.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 19:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sgZGW-4VC-27@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172123 |
On Tuesday 13 September 2016 08:57:19 Alan McConnell wrote: > Warning: This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback > against various insinuations that have been made. > Now I am going to push back Alan. If you are going to come in here and berate folks about this and that, the first thing you need to do is to train your email agent (wth is "X-Mailer: Zimbra 7.2.6_GA_2926 (ZimbraWebClient - GC46 (Win)/7.2.6_GA_2926)" never heard of it) to properly quote, and honor existing quotes, if for no other reason than to help us identify who wrote what. That is what all those leading > and >> > are all about. It is also part of the email protocol that has existed since the late 80's of the last century. > ----- Original Message ----- Which I scrubbed because there are NO quotes in it other than what my email agent added. Why they were totally removed I've no clue, but it marks your email agent as being seriously mis-configured, or was written by an idiot. Please fix it to obey 30 year old email quoting standards. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-13 23:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sh2Ya-6XB-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172132 |
On Tuesday 13 September 2016 18:24:07 Gene Heskett wrote: > On Tuesday 13 September 2016 08:57:19 Alan McConnell wrote: > > Warning: This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback > > against various insinuations that have been made. > > Now I am going to push back Alan. > > If you are going to come in here and berate folks about this and that, > the first thing you need to do is to train your email agent > > (wth is "X-Mailer: Zimbra 7.2.6_GA_2926 (ZimbraWebClient - GC46 > (Win)/7.2.6_GA_2926)" never heard of it) https://www.itg.ias.edu/content/logging-zimbra-web-client It isn't an email client, and obviously can't do threading and quoting and things. Alan clearly doesn't understand them, just as he doesn't understand what the word "solved" means. Hint for Alan: it doesn't mean the same as kludged. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kludged https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kludge#English (See meaning 3) Lisi > to properly quote, and honor existing quotes, if for no other reason than > to help us identify who wrote what. That is what all those leading > > and >> > are all about. It is also part of the email protocol that has > existed since the late 80's of the last century. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Which I scrubbed because there are NO quotes in it other than what my > email agent added. Why they were totally removed I've no clue, but it > marks your email agent as being seriously mis-configured, or was written > by an idiot. > > Please fix it to obey 30 year old email quoting standards. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
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| From | Alan McConnell <alan@his.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-14 03:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sh6Ip-17K-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172144 |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisi Reisz" <lisi.reisz@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:58:01 PM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
On Tuesday 13 September 2016 18:24:07 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 September 2016 08:57:19 Alan McConnell wrote:
> > Warning: This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback
> > against various insinuations that have been made.
>
> Now I am going to push back Alan.
>
> If you are going to come in here and berate folks about this and that,
> the first thing you need to do is to train your email agent
>
> (wth is "X-Mailer: Zimbra 7.2.6_GA_2926 (ZimbraWebClient - GC46
> (Win)/7.2.6_GA_2926)" never heard of it)
https://www.itg.ias.edu/content/logging-zimbra-web-client
Interesting that the IAS uses Zimbra. I've been after Paul Heller for years
to get rid of Zimbra, a huge clunky webmail interface, and I only use it when
when my home Debian install is, for some reason, not functional. I apologize for
Zimbra's inadequacies, failure to produce '>' as my home mutt so nicely does.
It isn't an email client, and obviously can't do threading and quoting and
things. Alan clearly doesn't understand them, just as he doesn't understand
what the word "solved" means. Hint for Alan: it doesn't mean the same as
kludged.
Sorry, I do know what 'solved' means, and I do say that _my_ problem is
solved. But my solution, as I've said over and over again, is not one that
I can give to people who are running a dual boot system at my urging.
> to properly quote, and honor existing quotes, if for no other reason than
> to help us identify who wrote what. That is what all those leading >
> and >> > are all about. It is also part of the email protocol that has
> existed since the late 80's of the last century.
Absolutely! I couldn't agree more. When I get Jessie running properly on
my new Dell I'll have my emacs put in quotes as they should be. But I don't
know how to do it on Zimbra, which, I'll repeat, is a foul piece of SW. For
now I'm indenting my replies. I hope all your mail readers respect my
indentations; I have a suspicion that some of them don't.
Re Royal Holloway: boys were added in 1966, a year before my time there. But
there were always male faculty there, especially in math, which subject has,
most unfortunately, suffered from a dearth of qualified women. This is beginning
to change: the AMS puts a lot of effort in supporting women and departments
supporting women.
More perhaps tomorrow. I have tasks to perform before bed. But maybe someone
can tell me why the installer can't look at the partitions and determine that there
is some kind of OS already installed? Why does it have to know about Windows 10 to
behave sensibly? "Curious minds . . . "
Best wishes,
Alan
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-14 08:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <shcb7-5My-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172156 |
Alan McConnell composed on 2016-09-13 20:50 (UTC-0400): > Lisi Reisz composed: >> Gene Heskett wrote: >>> Now I am going to push back Alan. >>> If you are going to come in here and berate folks about this and that, >>> the first thing you need to do is to train your email agent >>> (wth is "X-Mailer: Zimbra 7.2.6_GA_2926 (ZimbraWebClient - GC46 >>> (Win)/7.2.6_GA_2926)" never heard of it) ... >> https://www.itg.ias.edu/content/logging-zimbra-web-client ... > Interesting that the IAS uses Zimbra. I've been after Paul Heller for years > to get rid of Zimbra, a huge clunky webmail interface, and I only use it when > when my home Debian install is, for some reason, not functional. I apologize for > Zimbra's inadequacies, failure to produce '>' as my home mutt so nicely does. Just because one is unable to get whatever she is using to compose a reply according to standards automatically doesn't excuse one who knows better from conforming. Apologizing, particularly while continuing to not conform, does not excuse. You are responsible for what you post, not your posting agent. ... > But maybe someone > can tell me why the installer can't look at the partitions and determine that there > is some kind of OS already installed? Why does it have to know about Windows 10 to > behave sensibly? "Curious minds . . . " As explained by Brian on 2016-09-13 15:40 (UTC+0100), first came Jessie, then came Windows 10, and an apparent solution has since been provided for those who choose to install a Debian version younger than Windows 10. It does seem curious that the Debian installer would need knowledge of a particular Windows version in order to provide a boot menu selection for it, rather than simply having one that says "Windows", booting from whatever non-native/NTFS filesystem it happens to find containing anything resembling boot sector code. Should you be game to try installing Jessie again, you might try a network installation started via a Stretch installer. Possibly (I haven't tried, and not only do I have no interest in kicking either of my sleeping dog Windows 10s, I'm exclusively responsible for primary bootloader maintenance on all my computers, and rarely allow os-prober to run.) the os-prober shortcoming that troubled you might be avoided in such manner. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-09-14 11:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <shemB-7pO-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #172157 |
On Wed 14 Sep 2016 at 02:44:14 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: > Alan McConnell composed on 2016-09-13 20:50 (UTC-0400): > ... > >But maybe someone > >can tell me why the installer can't look at the partitions and determine that there > >is some kind of OS already installed? Why does it have to know about Windows 10 to > >behave sensibly? "Curious minds . . . " > > As explained by Brian on 2016-09-13 15:40 (UTC+0100), first came Jessie, > then came Windows 10, and an apparent solution has since been provided for > those who choose to install a Debian version younger than Windows 10. I might have come to an invalid conclusion from reading the changelog snippet quoted earlier and then went to lay far too much emphasis on Jessie d-i preceding Windows 10. What is fixed is not whether an entry for Windows 10 is displayed but the wording of the entry in the GRUB menu. Apologies for anything misleading. > It does seem curious that the Debian installer would need knowledge of a > particular Windows version in order to provide a boot menu selection for it, > rather than simply having one that says "Windows", booting from whatever > non-native/NTFS filesystem it happens to find containing anything resembling > boot sector code. Yes it does appear curious, especially as the implication in the changelog (and a few reports I've seen elsewhere) is that a Windows 10 install can be discovered by os-prober but provides "Windows Recovery Partition" as GRUB's menu entry. > Should you be game to try installing Jessie again, you might try a network > installation started via a Stretch installer. Possibly (I haven't tried, and > not only do I have no interest in kicking either of my sleeping dog Windows > 10s, I'm exclusively responsible for primary bootloader maintenance on all > my computers, and rarely allow os-prober to run.) the os-prober shortcoming > that troubled you might be avoided in such manner. os-prober from stretch/unstable should install on Jessie with 'dpkg -i' but I am much less confident it would fix a missing entry, even though it should do no harm to try. Another possibilty is https://wiki.debian.org/DualBoot/Windows10
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