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Posting picture files

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  Posting picture files Gary Roach <gary719_list1@verizon.net> - 2016-05-01 03:20 +0200
    Re: Posting picture files Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-05-01 05:30 +0200
      Re: Posting picture files Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2016-05-02 12:20 +0200
        Re: Posting picture files Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-05-02 16:10 +0200
          Re: Posting picture files Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-05-02 16:20 +0200
          Re: Posting picture files Gary Roach <gary719_list1@verizon.net> - 2016-05-03 01:40 +0200
            Re: Posting picture files Ralph Sanchez <rwsanchez3@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 01:50 +0200
              Re: Posting picture files John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-05-03 02:10 +0200
                Re: Posting picture files Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2016-05-03 16:40 +0200
            Re: Posting picture files Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 02:10 +0200
              Re: Posting picture files Gary Roach <gary719_list1@verizon.net> - 2016-05-03 05:20 +0200
                Re: Posting picture files Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-05-03 11:10 +0200
                Re: Posting picture files "heqamilus@runbox.com" <heqamilus@runbox.com> - 2016-05-03 16:00 +0200
                  Re: Posting picture files Gary Roach <gary719_list1@verizon.net> - 2016-05-03 21:50 +0200
                    Re: Posting picture files cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2016-05-10 20:40 +0200
            Re: Posting picture files Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-03 05:50 +0200
              Re: Posting picture files Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-05-03 13:10 +0200
                Re: Posting picture files Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-03 14:00 +0200
                  Re: Posting picture files Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-05-03 14:30 +0200
            Re: Posting picture files Bob Holtzman <holtzm@cox.net> - 2016-05-04 00:10 +0200
    Re: Posting picture files Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 13:30 +0200
      Re: Posting picture files Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-05-01 16:50 +0200
        Re: Posting picture files Sven Arvidsson <sa@whiz.se> - 2016-05-01 17:10 +0200
          Re: Posting picture files Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 17:20 +0200
          Re: Posting picture files Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-05-01 18:10 +0200
            Re: Posting picture files Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2016-05-02 03:00 +0200
            Re: Posting picture files Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-03 06:10 +0200
            Re: Posting picture files cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2016-05-10 20:40 +0200
              Re: Posting picture files Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-05-10 21:00 +0200
                Re: Posting picture files cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2016-05-13 14:30 +0200
    Re: Posting picture files Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 13:40 +0200
      Sorry. :-( Re: Posting picture files Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 13:50 +0200
        Re: Sorry. :-( Re: Posting picture files Gary Roach <gary719_list1@verizon.net> - 2016-05-01 19:00 +0200
          Re: Sorry. :-( Re: Posting picture files Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-05-01 19:40 +0200
            Re: Sorry. :-( Re: Posting picture files Gary Roach <gary719_list1@verizon.net> - 2016-05-02 03:40 +0200
          Re: Sorry. :-( Re: Posting picture files Sven Arvidsson <sa@whiz.se> - 2016-05-01 21:20 +0200
          Re: Sorry. :-( Re: Posting picture files <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2016-05-02 08:50 +0200
            Re: Sorry. :-( Re: Posting picture files Gary Roach <gary719_list1@verizon.net> - 2016-05-02 09:30 +0200
            Re: Sorry. :-( Re: Posting picture files Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-05-02 13:00 +0200
    Re: Posting picture files Siard <shiems146@kpnplanet.nl> - 2016-05-01 20:40 +0200

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#167269 — Posting picture files

I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or send 
anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a problem if I 
wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that debian has a paste 
bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.

Gary R

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#167271

On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:

> I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or send
> anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a problem if
> I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that debian has a paste
> bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.
>
> Gary R

<http://paste.debian.net/>

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#167350

On 2016-04-30 23:20:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:
> 
> > I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or send
> > anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a problem if
> > I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that debian has a paste
> > bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.
> >
> > Gary R
> 
> <http://paste.debian.net/>

Or better: https://paste.debian.net/

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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#167358

On Monday 02 May 2016 06:18:02 Vincent Lefevre wrote:

> On 2016-04-30 23:20:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:
> > > I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or
> > > send anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a
> > > problem if I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that
> > > debian has a paste bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.
> > >
> > > Gary R
> >
> > <http://paste.debian.net/>
>
> Or better: https://paste.debian.net/

Working from 81 yo & rusty wet ram. :(  Thank you for the correction.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#167361

On Monday 02 May 2016 15:01:12 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 02 May 2016 06:18:02 Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2016-04-30 23:20:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:
> > > > I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or
> > > > send anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a
> > > > problem if I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that
> > > > debian has a paste bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.
> > > >
> > > > Gary R
> > >
> > > <http://paste.debian.net/>
> >
> > Or better: https://paste.debian.net/
>
> Working from 81 yo & rusty wet ram. :(  Thank you for the correction.

But using common sense and attaching is much more likely to be useful.  (See 
Brian's email.)  I make considerable use of the archives, as do many people.  
Some threads are useless without the attachments, and paste bin entries don't 
survive.  Most of us check spam folders before making a fuss about missing 
mail, so this particular case of Gary's attachment would be unlikely to help 
future generations.

AOL always was bad about blocking harmless mail.  Many eons ago I was with 
AOL, as was my ex-husband, when my granddaughter got seriously ill in Japan.  
My son was sending out bulletins by email.  They were reaching neither of her 
blood grandparents - because AOL was blocking ALL mail from the Far East!!!!!  
And in those days we couldn't get at the spam folders.

Lisi

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#167406

On 05/02/2016 07:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 02 May 2016 06:18:02 Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>
>> On 2016-04-30 23:20:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:
>>>> I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or
>>>> send anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a
>>>> problem if I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that
>>>> debian has a paste bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.
>>>>
>>>> Gary R
>>> <http://paste.debian.net/>
>> Or better: https://paste.debian.net/
> Working from 81 yo & rusty wet ram. :(  Thank you for the correction.
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
You know, I just looked at http://paste.debian,net. The site seems to be 
more for pasting code snippets than anything else. While there is 
nothing wrong with this, I don't see why they don't just paste the code 
directly into their email message. That said, the site didn't seem to be 
set up very well for pictures. At least that is my first impression. 
Wouldn't be the first time that that was wrong though.

This dial up thing is a pain. I just found an article from CNN that 
there are still 2.1 million aol customers using dial up connection. 
($20/mo.). Someone needs to figure out a way to handle this without 
penalizing the rest of us.

Gary R.

Gary R.

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#167408

On the subject of Dialup, and this is me speaking for just me, but I'd
rather have to walk five blocks everytime I need internet then spend
20 a month on dial up :/ I guess a lot of those 2.1 million customers
probably live in very rural areas where maybe other forms aren't
available, or the cost to lay wire would be more then they have. My
thinking is, we have GPS that works nearly (ok maybe not) everywhere
you'd go and want internet, so why hasn't some billionaire or
multi-billion or trillion dollar company decided to provide a wifi
type service in the same way?? I'd think if my galaxy s6 can beam
receive, beam back and re-receive data from 3 different sources at the
same time fast enough to have a mildly reliable map of where I am, how
fast i'm going and traffic conditions we could access the web at the
same speed or faster. Totally off topic, sorry....


On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:38 PM, Gary Roach <gary719_list1@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 05/02/2016 07:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>
>> On Monday 02 May 2016 06:18:02 Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>>
>>> On 2016-04-30 23:20:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or
>>>>> send anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a
>>>>> problem if I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that
>>>>> debian has a paste bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary R
>>>>
>>>> <http://paste.debian.net/>
>>>
>>> Or better: https://paste.debian.net/
>>
>> Working from 81 yo & rusty wet ram. :(  Thank you for the correction.
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> You know, I just looked at http://paste.debian,net. The site seems to be
> more for pasting code snippets than anything else. While there is nothing
> wrong with this, I don't see why they don't just paste the code directly
> into their email message. That said, the site didn't seem to be set up very
> well for pictures. At least that is my first impression. Wouldn't be the
> first time that that was wrong though.
>
> This dial up thing is a pain. I just found an article from CNN that there
> are still 2.1 million aol customers using dial up connection. ($20/mo.).
> Someone needs to figure out a way to handle this without penalizing the rest
> of us.
>
> Gary R.
>
> Gary R.
>

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#167410

Ralph Sanchez writes:
> I guess a lot of those 2.1 million customers probably live in very
> rural areas where maybe other forms aren't available, or the cost to
> lay wire would be more then they have. My thinking is, we have GPS
> that works nearly (ok maybe not) everywhere you'd go and want
> internet, so why hasn't some billionaire or multi-billion or trillion
> dollar company decided to provide a wifi type service in the same way?

GPS requires many orders of magnitude less bandwidth than does Internet
service.  There is satellite Internet service and some people in remote
areas use it.  However the present version has serious drawbacks.  Elon
Musk plans to change that.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#167435

On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 07:08:07PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Ralph Sanchez writes:
> > I guess a lot of those 2.1 million customers probably live in very
> > rural areas where maybe other forms aren't available, or the cost to
> > lay wire would be more then they have. My thinking is, we have GPS
> > that works nearly (ok maybe not) everywhere you'd go and want
> > internet, so why hasn't some billionaire or multi-billion or trillion
> > dollar company decided to provide a wifi type service in the same way?
> 
> GPS requires many orders of magnitude less bandwidth than does Internet
> service.  There is satellite Internet service and some people in remote
> areas use it.  However the present version has serious drawbacks.  Elon
> Musk plans to change that.

In particular, GPS is a one way service. Point your receiver at
the sky, let it see several satellite's radio beacons. Each
beacon emits a short pulse train encoding the satellite's
position and a very accurate timestamp. Your receiver does the
math and now knows where it is and what the time is.

The total bandwidth from a satellite is just over 1 megabit per
second. If it had to be shared among various receivers, it would
be completely overwhelmed by demand. But as a broadcast signal,
it is very effective.

-dsr-

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#167411

On Tuesday 03 May 2016 00:38:53 Gary Roach wrote:
> Someone needs to figure out a way to handle this without
> penalizing the rest of us.

"The rest of us" don't have any desire to send pictures and are not being 
penalised.

Lisi

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#167412

On 05/02/2016 05:04 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Tuesday 03 May 2016 00:38:53 Gary Roach wrote:
>> Someone needs to figure out a way to handle this without
>> penalizing the rest of us.
> "The rest of us" don't have any desire to send pictures and are not being
> penalised.
>
> Lisi
>
>
I wouldn't send pictures either except someone asked for a screen shot 
to solve my original problem. Sometimes the old "A picture is worth a 
thousand words" is true. Of course the picture may take up a thousand 
times the band width.

I still haven't found a solution for the disappearance of all of my 
desktop icons. They are replaced with little transparent squares. They 
still work though.

Gary R

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#167419

On Tuesday 03 May 2016 04:18:59 Gary Roach wrote:

> I still haven't found a solution for the disappearance of all of my
> desktop icons. They are replaced with little transparent squares. They
> still work though.

This problem got lost.  I should start a new thread and explain it clearly, 
starting with: what version of what DE are you using?  What happened 
immediately before the icons disappeared?

Lisi

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#167434

On 05/03/2016 05:18 AM, Gary Roach wrote:

> I still haven't found a solution for the disappearance of all of my
> desktop icons. They are replaced with little transparent squares. They
> still work though.


Try to change the theme you are using and/or install some new themes.
and/or install a different desktop (eg gnome, kde, mate)

H.

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#167444

On 05/03/2016 06:57 AM, heqamilus@runbox.com wrote:
>
> On 05/03/2016 05:18 AM, Gary Roach wrote:
>
>> I still haven't found a solution for the disappearance of all of my
>> desktop icons. They are replaced with little transparent squares. They
>> still work though.
>
> Try to change the theme you are using and/or install some new themes.
> and/or install a different desktop (eg gnome, kde, mate)
>
> H.
>
>
You know, I thought I had tried switching themes with out success. I 
just tried it again and the Oxygen theme cleared up the problem. That 
fixes the problem that started this whole mess but says nothing about 
the posting problems.

I seem to struck a nerve somewhere. I think that the discussion on 
attachments, file sizes and rejected email practices has been of some 
value in itself.

Thank you everyone for your participation.

Gary R.

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#167694

On Tue, May 03, 2016 at 12:41:10PM -0700, Gary Roach wrote:
> >
> You know, I thought I had tried switching themes with out success. I just
> tried it again and the Oxygen theme cleared up the problem.

So this is the solution to a problem in another thread? :/

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

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#167413

Gary Roach composed on 2016-05-02 16:38 (UTC-0700):

> ... Someone needs to figure out a way to handle this without
> penalizing the rest of us.

Penalizing is the emailing of unsolicited binary attachments to hundreds or 
thousands of mailing list subscribers. This list's subscribers can see in the 
list posting rules that binary attachments are not to be expected unless of 
nominal size, thus can feel safe their disk space won't be wasted, and 
internet bandwidth won't be wasted, on things a select few have interest in 
or will be opening. It's little different than the waste that is HTML 
email[1], burdened with formatting that is magnitudes larger than the size of 
the text required to actually convey the message. Just a few clicking on a 
link to open a web-hosted image or other large size object is by far the 
lesser burden.

[1] http://fm.no-ip.com/Inet/htmlemail.html
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#167422

On Mon 02 May 2016 at 23:43:45 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

> Gary Roach composed on 2016-05-02 16:38 (UTC-0700):
> 
> >... Someone needs to figure out a way to handle this without
> >penalizing the rest of us.
> 
> Penalizing is the emailing of unsolicited binary attachments to hundreds or

Subscribers to a Debian mailing list have solicited everything which is
sent to it and which Listmaster allows to be distributed. If what they
receive is not to their liking and they cannot persuade Listmaster to
adopt their proposals, they can unsubscribe.

> thousands of mailing list subscribers. This list's subscribers can see in
> the list posting rules that binary attachments are not to be expected unless
> of nominal size, thus can feel safe their disk space won't be wasted, and

  Avoid sending large attachments.

is the advice:

  https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/

Nothing about "binary". Nothing about "nominal".

The OP tried to send an attachent of undisclosed size. It failed to be
distributed and he did not get a reason in a mail. Both events have been
explained to him and an alternative avenue suggested.

> internet bandwidth won't be wasted, on things a select few have interest in
> or will be opening. It's little different than the waste that is HTML

Subscribing to a list means taking the rough with the smooth.

-- 
Brian.
Wasting bandwidth since 1996.

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#167423

Brian composed on 2016-05-03 12:08 (UTC+0100):

> On Mon 02 May 2016 at 23:43:45 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

>> thousands of mailing list subscribers. This list's subscribers can see in
>> the list posting rules that binary attachments are not to be expected unless
>> of nominal size, thus can feel safe their disk space won't be wasted, and

>    Avoid sending large attachments.

> is the advice:

>    https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists#Posting_Rules.2C_Guidelines.2C_and_Tips 
says:

	"Do not submit an attachment larger than 10 KiB."

The functional gist of the entirety of both URLs includes keeping submissions 
modest in size. Images attached virtually always violate that precept.

> Nothing about "binary". Nothing about "nominal".

Binary is functionally implied. When was the last time you saw any software 
user/help mailing list post arrive with an image attached that was not many 
times 10KiB (10KiB is very roughly the average size of a debian-user mailing 
list post), or an attachment that was not an image? IME it rarely happens.

Nominal in the context used means modest, something that wouldn't burden the 
system by bloating an ordinary plain text email many orders of magnitude.

>> internet bandwidth won't be wasted, on things a select few have interest in
>> or will be opening. It's little different than the waste that is HTML

> Subscribing to a list means taking the rough with the smooth.

It does not mean liking abuse or never doing anything to dissuade abuse.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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#167424

On Tue 03 May 2016 at 07:51:29 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

> Brian composed on 2016-05-03 12:08 (UTC+0100):
> 
> >On Mon 02 May 2016 at 23:43:45 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >>thousands of mailing list subscribers. This list's subscribers can see in
> >>the list posting rules that binary attachments are not to be expected unless
> >>of nominal size, thus can feel safe their disk space won't be wasted, and
> 
> >   Avoid sending large attachments.
> 
> >is the advice:
> 
> >   https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists#Posting_Rules.2C_Guidelines.2C_and_Tips
> says:
> 
> 	"Do not submit an attachment larger than 10 KiB."

Please keep up at the back. :) That statement has been dealt with on
-user a day or so ago. It does not reflect reality on the lists today.

> The functional gist of the entirety of both URLs includes keeping
> submissions modest in size. Images attached virtually always violate that
> precept.

I do not know the size of the average screenshot but I can imagine it
would exceed what Listmaster allows. Listmaster also ensures only
modestly sized attachments sufficient for the list to function are sent
to the list.
 
> >Nothing about "binary". Nothing about "nominal".
> 
> Binary is functionally implied. When was the last time you saw any software
> user/help mailing list post arrive with an image attached that was not many
> times 10KiB (10KiB is very roughly the average size of a debian-user mailing
> list post), or an attachment that was not an image? IME it rarely happens.

When did I last see a modestly sized image on -user? Yesterday.

Non-image 400K attachments are regularly seen on some Debian lists.

> Nominal in the context used means modest, something that wouldn't burden the
> system by bloating an ordinary plain text email many orders of magnitude.

Burdening the system is a consideration but so is enabling the work via
the lists to be carried out. 
 
> >>internet bandwidth won't be wasted, on things a select few have interest in
> >>or will be opening. It's little different than the waste that is HTML
> 
> >Subscribing to a list means taking the rough with the smooth.
> 
> It does not mean liking abuse or never doing anything to dissuade abuse.

I hope you are not implying Listmaster likes, encourages or condones
abuse. :)

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#167450

On Mon, May 02, 2016 at 04:38:53PM -0700, Gary Roach wrote:

> You know, I just looked at http://paste.debian,net. The site seems to be
> more for pasting code snippets than anything else. While there is nothing
> wrong with this, I don't see why they don't just paste the code directly
> into their email message. That said, the site didn't seem to be set up very
> well for pictures. At least that is my first impression. Wouldn't be the
> first time that that was wrong though.

Run a search on "pictures pastebins".

-- 
Bob Holtzman
A man is a man who will fight with a sword or
conquer Mt. Everest in snow. But the bravest of all
owns a '34 Ford and tries for six thousand in low.

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