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TCP/IP over Bluetooth

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  TCP/IP over Bluetooth peter@easthope.ca - 2016-04-23 06:10 +0200
    Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth shawn wilson <ag4ve.us@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 06:40 +0200
      Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-04-23 07:10 +0200
        Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 09:40 +0200
          Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-04-23 13:20 +0200
            Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2016-04-23 14:00 +0200
              Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2016-04-23 14:20 +0200
              Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-04-23 14:40 +0200
                Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 14:50 +0200
                  Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-04-23 15:10 +0200
                    Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-04-23 16:40 +0200
                      Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-04-23 19:10 +0200
                        Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2016-04-23 19:30 +0200
                        Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-04-23 20:00 +0200
                          Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-04-23 21:20 +0200
                            Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-04-23 22:10 +0200
                          Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP  over Bluetooth) cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2016-04-27 10:40 +0200
                            Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re:  TCP/IP over Bluetooth) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-04-27 11:00 +0200
                              Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re:  TCP/IP over Bluetooth) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2016-04-27 11:20 +0200
                                Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth) Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2016-04-27 11:40 +0200
                                Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re:  TCP/IP over Bluetooth) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2016-04-27 11:50 +0200
                            Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth) Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-04-27 14:20 +0200
                            Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth) John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2016-04-27 14:50 +0200
                        Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2016-04-23 21:10 +0200
                Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2016-04-23 15:50 +0200
    Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 10:00 +0200
      Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2016-04-23 11:30 +0200
        Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 12:30 +0200
          Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth shawn wilson <ag4ve.us@gmail.com> - 2016-04-23 13:30 +0200
    Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2016-04-23 13:30 +0200

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#167141 — Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth)

On Wed 27 Apr 2016 at 11:14:15 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 09:53:31AM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 27 Apr 2016 at 20:31:17 +1200, cbannister@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:57:08PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > > > > Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last 10
> > > > > years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question might
> > > > > have had the seeds of something to help. :)
> > > > 
> > > > My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
> > > > sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
> > > > spam directories are deleted.
> > > 
> > > IIRC, it seems pointless feeding your mail through a spam filter
> > > if you're downloading it from your ISP/email provider.
> > 
> > I think you are assuming the ISP provides a spam filtering service and
> > you are happy to entrust the deletion of your mail to it.
> 
> There is still some truth to the above:
> 
> The most effective measure against spam these days is rejecting
> the mail up front (i.e. while the SMTP session is active). This
> way a (hopefully rare!) false positive is rejected in a way the
> sender can act on it.

I'd agree with this but would suggest the (vast) majority of users have
their mail delivered to a POP3 or IMAP account. Any rejection at SMTP
time is left up to the ISP and a user is usually unaware of this or has
no control over it.

> Once you got the mail it's too late. Either you have to generate
> a bounce (not a good idea these days, because real spam will have
> bogus headers and the bounce will hit a poor unsuspecting victim),
> or you have to look into the spam anyway, or the spam disappears
> in a black hole (again not a good idea, since in the false
> positive case the sender will newer know).
> 
> Therefore once your ISP has accepted the mail for you it's kinda
> "too late" -- they better have a good spam filtering setup in
> which you have some influence (the spam filter will only work
> if it has a notion of what *you* consider to be spam/ham).

Indeed, the transaction is complete and the mail delivered once the ISP
accepts it. All a user can do is try to avoid downloading unwanted mail.
Leaving filtering to the ISP is fraught as many offer only a "take it or
leave it" service, again with no user control. Even more do not allow an
opt-out and no matter what the quality of the service a deleted mail is
a deleted mail. I'd rather make my own mistakes. And have. :)

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#167147 — Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth)

On Wednesday 27 April 2016 04:31:17 cbannister@slingshot.co.nz wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:57:08PM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> > > Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last
> > > 10 years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question
> > > might have had the seeds of something to help. :)
> >
> > My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
> > sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
> > spam directories are deleted.
>
> IIRC, it seems pointless feeding your mail through a spam filter
> if you're downloading it from your ISP/email provider.

One of the two mail servers I use is an ancient qmail setup that dates 
from around 1998, and spam filtering is not its strong point. So 
spamassassin catches about 40 a day, and I feed about that many to 
sa-learn manually.  Jim tells me that qmail's filters do stop around 
20,000 a day according to its logs.  Also, of the 100 incoming ports, a 
mail will time out and be bounced by the sender because the spammers 
will open a port and forget to close it, so its out of incoming ports 
about 50% of the day.  A whole new machine has been built, around 
sendmail I think, with quite a bit more iron, but he has a vacation week 
coming up and is not about to make the changeover and leave for a week.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#167148 — Re: Is running spamassin on a home server a waste? (was ... Re: TCP/IP over Bluetooth)

I wrote:
> My scripts copy all new non-spam to a ham directory which is fed to
> sa-learn every night and then the contents of both the ham and the
> spam directories are deleted.

cbannister writes:
> IIRC, it seems pointless feeding your mail through a spam filter
> if you're downloading it from your ISP/email provider.

Newsguy does the usual SMTP-time stuff and has effective filters: they
probably catch ten times as much stuff as I see with my filters turned
off.  However their filters are not individualized and I doubt that I
would be satisfied with a system intended for the below-average user
even if they were.  My filters are down right now because my server died
and I'm seeing twenty or thirty spams a day.  When I replace the server
and get Spamassassin retrained I will se an average of less than one.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#167041

On Saturday 23 April 2016 13:01:33 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 23 April 2016 10:35:12 John Hasler wrote:
> > Gene writes:
> > > Spamassassin, after several years of being fed all of that stuff
> > > via a daily sa-learn -spam command on that resting directory,
> > > still only catches 10% of it.
> >
> > Interesting.  For me it catches 90%.  Do you feed it both spam and
> > ham?
>
> I feed it ham by moving stuff it should catch to the ham directory so
Ancient fingers! should s/b shouldn't above.
> its treated as ham on the next runs of sa-learn.  I could add a weekly
> sa-learn --ham session, nameing one or more of the cleaner folders
> from the mailing lists I suppose.  It was initially run over my
> cleaned up coco folder, which is several gigabytes of quite clean ham.
>  The initial run was many years ago.  Or, I suppose, I could use an
> int rnd(number of good folders) and the a stack of ifelses to do a
> name substitution based on the number and have it read them all at
> random intervals.
>
> I should restrict the number of folders to those that I do have expiry
> times set on though.  Not all folders have expiry setup.  Those that I
> have primary interests in are here until I have an HD crash and no
> backups.  Since I run amanda every night, using a second HD as virtual
> tapes, that chance ranges from slim to point triple ought zip.  I may
> have the last blackout first at my age. :(
>
> ATM I'm making parts for my mill on my lathe for another project that
> will triple the speed of the z axis on my mill, but there may be a
> down time before those replacement motor and driver parts all arrive
> in the next 2 weeks or so when I can slice up some bash code to do
> that.
>
> Thanks for making me think of that and the fact that over the last 10
> years, the only ham its seen are its mistakes. So this question might
> have had the seeds of something to help. :)
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#167031

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 23/04/2016 10:33 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 23 April 2016 07:52:06 Curt wrote:
>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10915
>>
>> works fine here.

Yes, other pages worked fine too.

> I finally did get to the article, but had to clear it with privacy badger 
> and ghostery and no-script was already disabled. I have no clue what 
> their cookies send back, but I printed it so I don't have to go thru 
> that folderol again.  The sign up overlay never did fully render. But it 
> had a close button that worked.

I had the same behaviour exactly.

I use uBlock Origin, Disconnect mostly.  PrivacyBadger gave me too much
trouble and I don't trust Noscript -- in Noscript's place, I use
Policeman and find it has better lock down controls.

> At one point, Privacy Badger was reporting 9 trackers, and Ghostery was 
> blocking 24 data suckers. Noscript wasn't blocking anything as its been 
> disabled for weeks.

Yep, and web developers or their bosses couldn't seem to care less how
much garbage they force upon us.  They are now worse than used car
salesmen, just like SEO /scumbags/ ...S

Cheers
AndrewM

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#167012

	Hi.

On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 20:27:38 -0700
peter@easthope.ca wrote:

> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth ,
> Bluetooth was "... originally conceived as a wireless alternative 
> to RS-232 data cables."  Therefore TCP/IP inside PPP on a 
> Bluetooth connection is hypthetically possible.
> 
> Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?

I have to use the thing on a regular basis. Connection speed is
turtle-slow by today's standards, but it works, and aside from the
bluez package it only requires wvdial one.

A sample implementation is:

# cat /etc/network/if-pre-up.ppp0
/usr/bin/rfcomm connect /dev/rfcomm0 xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx &
while [ ! -r /dev/rfcomm0 ]; do
        /bin/echo "Waiting for /dev/rfcomm0 ..."
        /bin/sleep 1
done

# cat /etc/network/if-post-down.ppp0
pkill -9 rfcomm

# grep -A1 ppp0 /etc/network/interfaces
iface ppp0 inet wvdial
    pre-up /etc/network/if-pre-up.ppp0
    metric 1
    post-down /etc/network/if-post-down.ppp0

# cat /etc/wvdial.conf
[Dialer Defaults]
Baud = 460800
Dial Command = ATD
Init1 = ATZ
Init2 = ATQ0 V1 E1 S0=0 &C1 &D2 +FCLASS=0
Init3 = AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","my.cellphone.carrier.gateway"
Modem = /dev/rfcomm0
Modem Type = Analog Modem
New PPD = yes
Password = xxx
Phone = *99#
Username = xxx
ISDN = false
Idle Seconds = 300

Reco

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#167013

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:53:08 +0300
Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> wrote:

> 	Hi.
> 
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 20:27:38 -0700
> peter@easthope.ca wrote:
> 
> > According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth ,
> > Bluetooth was "... originally conceived as a wireless alternative 
> > to RS-232 data cables."  Therefore TCP/IP inside PPP on a 
> > Bluetooth connection is hypthetically possible.
> > 
> > Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?  
> 
> I have to use the thing on a regular basis. Connection speed is
> turtle-slow by today's standards, 
> 

If you need lots of bandwidth, there's wifi. 'Proper' serial equipment
typically does not go higher than 115kBd, and most wired serial
applications need much less than that. Sony's camera control protocol
at 562.5kBd is very unusual, and a pig to route wirelessly.

-- 
Joe

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#167014

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:23:57 +0100
Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:53:08 +0300
> Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > 	Hi.
> > 
> > On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 20:27:38 -0700
> > peter@easthope.ca wrote:
> > 
> > > According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth ,
> > > Bluetooth was "... originally conceived as a wireless alternative 
> > > to RS-232 data cables."  Therefore TCP/IP inside PPP on a 
> > > Bluetooth connection is hypthetically possible.
> > > 
> > > Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?  
> > 
> > I have to use the thing on a regular basis. Connection speed is
> > turtle-slow by today's standards, 
> > 
> 
> If you need lots of bandwidth, there's wifi. 

If I really need the bandwidth, I won't settle for anything less than
1Gbps ethernet. Such thing is not always available though.

> 'Proper' serial equipment
> typically does not go higher than 115kBd, and most wired serial
> applications need much less than that.

But serial-over-bluetooth gets me 0.5 Mbps :)

Reco

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#167018

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Apr 23, 2016 06:27, "Reco" <recoverym4n@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 10:23:57 +0100
> Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
>

> > 'Proper' serial equipment
> > typically does not go higher than 115kBd, and most wired serial
> > applications need much less than that.
>
> But serial-over-bluetooth gets me 0.5 Mbps :)
>

Being able to teacher when connected to either cell *or* wifi from a non
rooted android device (like if paying for a single MAC address on a plane)
might be a good enough reason to set it up. And in those situations, you're
not getting optimal bandwidth anyway.

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#167019

Hi Peter,

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 08:27:38PM -0700, peter@easthope.ca wrote:
> …TCP/IP inside PPP on a Bluetooth connection is hypthetically
> possible.
> 
> Has anyone tried it with a debian system on one end at least?

Yes; around 4 years ago I used to occasionally pair my Nokia E90 and
use it as a Bluetooth network device. That was with NetworkManager
under GNOME. I seem to recall it was detected without me needing to
configure anything (apart from the pairing), and it mostly worked,
although it was quite slow.

Since then I've switched to an Android phone and find either USB
tether or wifi access point performs better and are more reliable. I
see it still offers Bluetooth tethering but I've never wanted to
use it.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
http://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

> The optimum programming team size is 1.
Has Jurassic Park taught us nothing?         — pfilandr

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