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problem e-mailing debian groups

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  problem e-mailing debian groups Steve Kleene <skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu> - 2015-11-13 20:50 +0100
    Re: problem e-mailing debian groups Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> - 2015-11-13 22:10 +0100
    Re: problem e-mailing debian groups Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2015-11-13 23:20 +0100
      Re: problem e-mailing debian groups Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 01:20 +0100
        Re: problem e-mailing debian groups Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2015-11-14 02:00 +0100
          Re: problem e-mailing debian groups Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 02:20 +0100
            Re: problem e-mailing debian groups Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2015-11-14 02:30 +0100
            Re: problem e-mailing debian groups <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-11-14 08:50 +0100

#160529 — problem e-mailing debian groups

Almost five years ago, I became unable to post questions here by e-mail.  The
e-mail bounces with, for example:

> The following message to <debian-user@lists.debian.org> was undeliverable.
> The reason for the problem:
> 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
<prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550 5.1.1
<prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in reply to RCPT
TO comm
>
> --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
> content-type: message/delivery-status
>
> Reporting-MTA: dns; ucmailmx4.uc.edu
>
> Final-Recipient: rfc822;debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
> Remote-MTA: dns; [82.195.75.100]
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
<prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550 5.1.1
<prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in re
>
> --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
> content-type: message/rfc822

This commenced about the time my employer started prepending a bounce address
validation tag ("prvs=752320ad2=" in the above example) to my e-mail address
on outgoing mails.  This fails with the debian lists but nowhere else.  I
have circumvented the problem ever since by posting via gmane.org.

But now I am screwed.  The e-mail address you now see (via gmane) gets >90%
spam, presumably because the address is pulled by spammers from archives that
include my posts.  So I set up a clean, new address that I intend to use only
for receiving the digest.  The problem is that I have to confirm my
enrollment by e-mailing
  debian-user-digest-request@lists.debian.org
and that e-mail bounces because of the first problem.  I can't get to the
confirmation address through gmane.

Any ideas on how to fix either problem?  Thanks.

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#160531

On Fri, 13 Nov 2015 19:41:14 +0000 (UTC)
Steve Kleene <skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu> wrote:

>Almost five years ago, I became unable to post questions here by e-mail.  The
>e-mail bounces with, for example:
>
>> The following message to <debian-user@lists.debian.org> was undeliverable.
>> The reason for the problem:
>> 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7  
><prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
>undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550 5.1.1
><prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in reply to RCPT
>TO comm
>>
>> --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
>> content-type: message/delivery-status
>>
>> Reporting-MTA: dns; ucmailmx4.uc.edu
>>
>> Final-Recipient: rfc822;debian-user@lists.debian.org
>> Action: failed
>> Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
>> Remote-MTA: dns; [82.195.75.100]
>> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7  
><prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
>undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550 5.1.1
><prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in re
>>
>> --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
>> content-type: message/rfc822  
>
>This commenced about the time my employer started prepending a bounce address
>validation tag ("prvs=752320ad2=" in the above example) to my e-mail address
>on outgoing mails.  This fails with the debian lists but nowhere else.  I
>have circumvented the problem ever since by posting via gmane.org.
>
>But now I am screwed.  The e-mail address you now see (via gmane) gets >90%
>spam, presumably because the address is pulled by spammers from archives that
>include my posts.  So I set up a clean, new address that I intend to use only
>for receiving the digest.  The problem is that I have to confirm my
>enrollment by e-mailing
>  debian-user-digest-request@lists.debian.org
>and that e-mail bounces because of the first problem.  I can't get to the
>confirmation address through gmane.
>
>Any ideas on how to fix either problem?  Thanks.
>

Perhaps contacting the list maintainer directly? Sometimes they can do
something to help out with this kind of issue. The maintainers address
is listmaster@lists.debian.org. I don't know how long it will take to
get an answer.

I am sure there will be other suggestions, also.

-- 
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914
[http://linuxcounter.net/user/425914.html]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM.   [http://keepingdreams.com]

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#160534

On Fri, 13 Nov 2015, Steve Kleene wrote:
> Almost five years ago, I became unable to post questions here by e-mail.  The
> e-mail bounces with, for example:
> 
> > The following message to <debian-user@lists.debian.org> was undeliverable.
> > The reason for the problem:
> > 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
> <prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
> undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550 5.1.1
> <prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in reply to RCPT
> TO comm
> >
> > --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
> > content-type: message/delivery-status
> >
> > Reporting-MTA: dns; ucmailmx4.uc.edu
> >
> > Final-Recipient: rfc822;debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > Action: failed
> > Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
> > Remote-MTA: dns; [82.195.75.100]
> > Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
> <prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
> undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550 5.1.1
> <prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in re
> >
> > --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
> > content-type: message/rfc822
> 
> This commenced about the time my employer started prepending a bounce address
> validation tag ("prvs=752320ad2=" in the above example) to my e-mail address
> on outgoing mails.  This fails with the debian lists but nowhere else.  I
> have circumvented the problem ever since by posting via gmane.org.

This is because you are not supporting sender callback verification; the
envelope from that you are using needs to be an address which can be
received. If not, it's not valid.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_verification for details


-- 
Don Armstrong                      http://www.donarmstrong.com

"Do you think you might be suffering from post-traumatic stress
disorder?" [...]
"Who isn't?"
 -- Walter Jon Williams _This Is Not A Game_ p121

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#160538

On Friday 13 November 2015 22:14:30 Don Armstrong wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2015, Steve Kleene wrote:
> > Almost five years ago, I became unable to post questions here by e-mail. 
> > The
> >
> > e-mail bounces with, for example:
> > > The following message to <debian-user@lists.debian.org> was
> > > undeliverable. The reason for the problem:
> > > 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
> >
> > <prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
> > undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550
> > 5.1.1 <prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in reply
> > to RCPT TO comm
> >
> > > --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
> > > content-type: message/delivery-status
> > >
> > > Reporting-MTA: dns; ucmailmx4.uc.edu
> > >
> > > Final-Recipient: rfc822;debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > > Action: failed
> > > Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
> > > Remote-MTA: dns; [82.195.75.100]
> > > Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
> >
> > <prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
> > undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550
> > 5.1.1 <prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in re
> >
> > > --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
> > > content-type: message/rfc822
> >
> > This commenced about the time my employer started prepending a bounce
> > address validation tag ("prvs=752320ad2=" in the above example) to my
> > e-mail address on outgoing mails.  This fails with the debian lists but
> > nowhere else.  I have circumvented the problem ever since by posting via
> > gmane.org.
>
> This is because you are not supporting sender callback verification; the
> envelope from that you are using needs to be an address which can be
> received. If not, it's not valid.
>
> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_verification for details

That's the problem, not the solution, Don.

Lisi

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#160541

On 11/13/15 7:15 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Friday 13 November 2015 22:14:30 Don Armstrong wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2015, Steve Kleene wrote:
>>> Almost five years ago, I became unable to post questions here by e-mail.
>>> The
>>>
>>> e-mail bounces with, for example:
>>>> The following message to <debian-user@lists.debian.org> was
>>>> undeliverable. The reason for the problem:
>>>> 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
>>> <prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
>>> undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550
>>> 5.1.1 <prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in reply
>>> to RCPT TO comm
>>>
>>>> --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
>>>> content-type: message/delivery-status
>>>>
>>>> Reporting-MTA: dns; ucmailmx4.uc.edu
>>>>
>>>> Final-Recipient: rfc822;debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>>> Action: failed
>>>> Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
>>>> Remote-MTA: dns; [82.195.75.100]
>>>> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
>>> <prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
>>> undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550
>>> 5.1.1 <prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in re
>>>
>>>> --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
>>>> content-type: message/rfc822
>>> This commenced about the time my employer started prepending a bounce
>>> address validation tag ("prvs=752320ad2=" in the above example) to my
>>> e-mail address on outgoing mails.  This fails with the debian lists but
>>> nowhere else.  I have circumvented the problem ever since by posting via
>>> gmane.org.
>> This is because you are not supporting sender callback verification; the
>> envelope from that you are using needs to be an address which can be
>> received. If not, it's not valid.
>>
>> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_verification for details
> That's the problem, not the solution, Don.
>
>
Well the solution is to have a talk with the mail system admin who 
reconfigured the mail system, and did a half-assed job of it.

Miles Fidelman

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

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#160544

On Saturday 14 November 2015 00:43:43 Miles Fidelman wrote:
> On 11/13/15 7:15 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > On Friday 13 November 2015 22:14:30 Don Armstrong wrote:
> >> On Fri, 13 Nov 2015, Steve Kleene wrote:
> >>> Almost five years ago, I became unable to post questions here by
> >>> e-mail. The
> >>>
> >>> e-mail bounces with, for example:
> >>>> The following message to <debian-user@lists.debian.org> was
> >>>> undeliverable. The reason for the problem:
> >>>> 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
> >>>
> >>> <prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
> >>> undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550
> >>> 5.1.1 <prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in
> >>> reply to RCPT TO comm
> >>>
> >>>> --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
> >>>> content-type: message/delivery-status
> >>>>
> >>>> Reporting-MTA: dns; ucmailmx4.uc.edu
> >>>>
> >>>> Final-Recipient: rfc822;debian-user@lists.debian.org
> >>>> Action: failed
> >>>> Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
> >>>> Remote-MTA: dns; [82.195.75.100]
> >>>> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
> >>>
> >>> <prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
> >>> undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550
> >>> 5.1.1 <prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in re
> >>>
> >>>> --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
> >>>> content-type: message/rfc822
> >>>
> >>> This commenced about the time my employer started prepending a bounce
> >>> address validation tag ("prvs=752320ad2=" in the above example) to my
> >>> e-mail address on outgoing mails.  This fails with the debian lists but
> >>> nowhere else.  I have circumvented the problem ever since by posting
> >>> via gmane.org.
> >>
> >> This is because you are not supporting sender callback verification; the
> >> envelope from that you are using needs to be an address which can be
> >> received. If not, it's not valid.
> >>
> >> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_verification for details
> >
> > That's the problem, not the solution, Don.
>
> Well the solution is to have a talk with the mail system admin who
> reconfigured the mail system, and did a half-assed job of it.

Most employers are going to reconfigure their email systems to suit the hobby 
of one of their employees?  You have obliging employers where you come from!  

Lisi

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#160546

On 11/13/15 8:12 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Saturday 14 November 2015 00:43:43 Miles Fidelman wrote:
>> On 11/13/15 7:15 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>>> On Friday 13 November 2015 22:14:30 Don Armstrong wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2015, Steve Kleene wrote:
>>>>> Almost five years ago, I became unable to post questions here by
>>>>> e-mail. The
>>>>>
>>>>> e-mail bounces with, for example:
>>>>>> The following message to <debian-user@lists.debian.org> was
>>>>>> undeliverable. The reason for the problem:
>>>>>> 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
>>>>> <prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
>>>>> undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550
>>>>> 5.1.1 <prvs=752320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in
>>>>> reply to RCPT TO comm
>>>>>
>>>>>> --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
>>>>>> content-type: message/delivery-status
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reporting-MTA: dns; ucmailmx4.uc.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Final-Recipient: rfc822;debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>>>>> Action: failed
>>>>>> Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
>>>>>> Remote-MTA: dns; [82.195.75.100]
>>>>>> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.7
>>>>> <prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>: Sender address rejected:
>>>>> undeliverable address: host syrano.acb.uc.edu[129.137.3.161] said: 550
>>>>> 5.1.1 <prvsu2320ad2=skdeb@syrano.acb.uc.edu>... User unknown (in re
>>>>>
>>>>>> --4pO84.596/vqwKa.2j26M/gYqU.DibVXRw
>>>>>> content-type: message/rfc822
>>>>> This commenced about the time my employer started prepending a bounce
>>>>> address validation tag ("prvs=752320ad2=" in the above example) to my
>>>>> e-mail address on outgoing mails.  This fails with the debian lists but
>>>>> nowhere else.  I have circumvented the problem ever since by posting
>>>>> via gmane.org.
>>>> This is because you are not supporting sender callback verification; the
>>>> envelope from that you are using needs to be an address which can be
>>>> received. If not, it's not valid.
>>>>
>>>> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_verification for details
>>> That's the problem, not the solution, Don.
>> Well the solution is to have a talk with the mail system admin who
>> reconfigured the mail system, and did a half-assed job of it.
> Most employers are going to reconfigure their email systems to suit the hobby
> of one of their employees?  You have obliging employers where you come from!
>
You're assuming it's a hobby.  Quite a few of us use email lists for 
professional purposes.  And you're assuming that the change was a 
reasoned decision made at a high level, not some half-assed management 
decision, with half-assed implementation.

Configuring a server with bounce address validation, but not 
implementing a working validation address is, charitably, an oversight; 
less charitably, it's incompetence.

It's perfectly reasonable to have a talk with whomever administers the 
mail system in question, and suggest that they finish the job. Depending 
on where you sit in the organization, it's quite possible to get stuff 
fixed.

Miles Fidelman

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

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#160553

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 01:12:34AM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:

[...]

> > Well the solution is to have a talk with the mail system admin who
> > reconfigured the mail system, and did a half-assed job of it.
> 
> Most employers are going to reconfigure their email systems to suit the hobby 
> of one of their employees?  You have obliging employers where you come from!  

Now you're being unfair, Lisi: one can expect from a amil admin of an .edu
domain to get their BATV config right (or just to not do it if (s)he can't).

- -- t
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=Hw33
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