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Groups > linux.debian.user > #156977 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-08-28 17:20 +0200 |
| Last post | 2015-08-30 15:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 126 — 27 participants |
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Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-28 17:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 17:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 13:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 13:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 14:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 21:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-28 18:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 18:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> - 2015-08-29 01:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 12:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 15:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 15:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 16:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-08-29 16:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-08-29 17:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-30 02:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 10:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 14:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 15:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-30 14:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-08-30 10:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-29 15:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-08-29 16:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-28 23:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 00:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-08-30 17:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-30 17:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-08-30 20:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-30 21:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 21:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> - 2015-08-30 21:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-30 21:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 22:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2015-08-31 00:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 06:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 12:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 22:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 16:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 20:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. "T. J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 22:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 17:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-02 17:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-09-03 11:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 14:30 +0200
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 18:10 +0200
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-09-01 03:00 +0200
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 05:30 +0200
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2015-09-01 11:40 +0200
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 15:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-08-31 19:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 15:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> - 2015-09-01 15:50 +0200
Re: systemd-logind emitting messages to the terminal upon login The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 16:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-01 21:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-09-03 11:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-05 06:00 +0200
Re: uselessd Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-30 23:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-08-31 09:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 14:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-08-31 14:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 18:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-31 17:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 17:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 18:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 19:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 20:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 20:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2015-08-31 20:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 20:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 21:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-31 18:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 19:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 19:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 19:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-08-31 19:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 20:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Charlie Kravetz <cjk@teamcharliesangels.com> - 2015-08-31 21:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Erwan David <erwan@rail.eu.org> - 2015-08-31 21:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2015-09-02 10:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 12:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2015-09-03 07:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 08:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-03 16:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiatipy.org> - 2015-09-02 12:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-09-02 12:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-09-03 17:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2015-09-03 18:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2015-09-03 19:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Eike Lantzsch <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2015-09-03 21:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2015-09-03 21:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2015-09-03 22:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Seeker <seeker5528@comcast.net> - 2015-09-03 08:30 +0200
Re: How to exit /bin/sh Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 23:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de> - 2015-08-31 18:40 +0200
Re: "su is really a broken concept" Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-09-01 02:50 +0200
Re: "su is really a broken concept" "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 03:00 +0200
Re: "su is really a broken concept" Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-09-03 01:20 +0200
Re: "su is really a broken concept" "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 10:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-31 20:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2015-08-31 21:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-09-01 13:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 15:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-09-01 16:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-01 16:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2015-09-01 16:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 18:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 04:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 15:40 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 16:30 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 02:20 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-09-03 05:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2015-09-03 05:40 +0200
Re: No-one working on 'su' has stated that they will stop. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 18:30 +0200
Re: No-one working on 'su' has stated that they will stop. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 07:50 +0200
Can malware qualify as free software? Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.com> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
Re: Can malware qualify as free software? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2015-08-31 17:50 +0200
Re: Can malware qualify as free software? Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 18:50 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> - 2015-09-03 10:10 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2015-08-29 03:00 +0200
Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2015-08-30 15:10 +0200
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| From | Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-28 17:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Another system management tool to disappear. |
| Message-ID | <q2tBF-71T-33@gated-at.bofh.it> |
Systemd-Linux to get rid of su:
https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/
Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have _everything_
incorporated into systemd ?
Cheers,
Ron.
--
There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX.
We don't believe this to be a coincidence.
-- Jeremy S. Anderson
-- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
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| From | claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-28 17:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2tLk-7dc-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #156977 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
Hi, 2015-08-28 17:16 GMT+02:00 Renaud OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>: > Systemd-Linux to get rid of su: > > https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ > > Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have > _everything_ > incorporated into systemd ? > Troll mode: ON What he explains in the blogpost you link make sense. So let's give it a try ;) > Cheers, > > Ron. > -- > There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. > We don't believe this to be a coincidence. > -- Jeremy S. Anderson > > -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- > > >
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| From | Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 13:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2MEi-wT-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #156978 |
On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:25 AM, claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > 2015-08-28 17:16 GMT+02:00 Renaud OLGIATI <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>: >> >> Systemd-Linux to get rid of su: >> >> https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ >> >> Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have >> _everything_ >> incorporated into systemd ? > > > Troll mode: ON > > What he explains in the blogpost you link make sense. So let's give it a try > ;) So, do you mean to say that, when you say the blog post linked to makes sense, you are intending to be trolling? -- Joel Rees Be careful when you look at conspiracy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well: http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/10/conspiracy-theories.html
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| From | claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-30 13:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q38Ya-7zX-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157035 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
2015-08-29 13:35 GMT+02:00 Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com>: > On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:25 AM, claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > 2015-08-28 17:16 GMT+02:00 Renaud OLGIATI < > renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>: > >> > >> Systemd-Linux to get rid of su: > >> > >> https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ > >> > >> Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have > >> _everything_ > >> incorporated into systemd ? > > > > > > Troll mode: ON > > > > What he explains in the blogpost you link make sense. So let's give it a > try > > ;) > > So, do you mean to say that, when you say the blog post linked to > makes sense, you are intending to be trolling? > No sorry it was exactly the opposite. I was afraid about a new troll around systemd. > > -- > Joel Rees > > Be careful when you look at conspiracy. > Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well: > http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/10/conspiracy-theories.html > >
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| From | Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-30 14:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q3a3T-EP-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157115 |
On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:23 PM, claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> wrote: > > > 2015-08-29 13:35 GMT+02:00 Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com>: >> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:25 AM, claude juif <claude.juif@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > 2015-08-28 17:16 GMT+02:00 Renaud OLGIATI >> > <renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>: >> >> >> >> Systemd-Linux to get rid of su: >> >> >> >> https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ >> >> >> >> Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have >> >> _everything_ >> >> incorporated into systemd ? >> > >> > >> > Troll mode: ON >> > >> > What he explains in the blogpost you link make sense. So let's give it a >> > try >> > ;) >> >> So, do you mean to say that, when you say the blog post linked to >> makes sense, you are intending to be trolling? > > > No sorry it was exactly the opposite. I was afraid about a new troll around > systemd. Well, where I'm from, troll_mode is a property of the OP, and only the OP can set it. We might read it between the lines, but we can't actually set it. We, after the fact, can assert troll_warning or such, and the least processor-intensive way to assert that would be to use interweaved response, with the troll_warning flag above the quoted text. Lisi might tell me I'm being too pedantic. -- Joel Rees Be careful when you look at conspiracy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well: http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/10/conspiracy-theories.html
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| From | Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-30 21:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q3gCo-1FJ-41@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157119 |
On Sunday 30 August 2015 13:34:21 Joel Rees wrote: > Lisi might tell me I'm being too pedantic. :-) Lisi
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-28 18:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2uen-7Lf-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #156977 |
On Fri 28 Aug 2015 at 11:16:11 -0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > Systemd-Linux to get rid of su: > > https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ > > Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have _everything_ > incorporated into systemd ? When a thread is started with a complete misrepresentation of the facts of the situation the only way left for it go is downhill. https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825
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| From | Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-28 18:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2uxJ-8nz-43@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #156986 |
Hi. On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 16:57:01 +0100 Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote: > On Fri 28 Aug 2015 at 11:16:11 -0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > > > Systemd-Linux to get rid of su: > > > > https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ > > > > Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have _everything_ > > incorporated into systemd ? > > When a thread is started with a complete misrepresentation of the facts > of the situation the only way left for it go is downhill. > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825 Surely you meant the very github thread you're referring to. Compare su(1): The su command is used to become another user *during a login session*. To: Well, there have been long discussions about this, but the problem is that what "su" is supposed to do is very unclear. On one hand it's supposed *to open a new session* and change a number of execution context parameters (uid, gid, env, ...), and on the other it's supposed to inherit a lot concepts from the originating session (tty, cgroup, audit, ...). I'm kind of surprised that the bug was not closed as WONTFIX. su(1) is not a "full login", but it's not supposed to provide one anyway. Reco
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| From | Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 01:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2Bzb-1p7-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #156989 |
On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 07:12:32PM +0300, Reco wrote: > To: > > Well, there have been long discussions about this, but the problem is > that what "su" is supposed to do is very unclear. On one hand it's > supposed *to open a new session* and change a number of execution > context parameters (uid, gid, env, ...), and on the other it's supposed > to inherit a lot concepts from the originating session (tty, cgroup, > audit, ...). > > > I'm kind of surprised that the bug was not closed as WONTFIX. su(1) is > not a "full login", but it's not supposed to provide one anyway. su - <name> Has always worked fine for me. What's the problem? -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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| From | Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 12:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2LoS-7fO-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157008 |
Hi. On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:49:12 +1200 Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 07:12:32PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > To: > > > > Well, there have been long discussions about this, but the problem is > > that what "su" is supposed to do is very unclear. On one hand it's > > supposed *to open a new session* and change a number of execution > > context parameters (uid, gid, env, ...), and on the other it's supposed > > to inherit a lot concepts from the originating session (tty, cgroup, > > audit, ...). > > > > > > I'm kind of surprised that the bug was not closed as WONTFIX. su(1) is > > not a "full login", but it's not supposed to provide one anyway. > > su - <name> > > Has always worked fine for me. What's the problem? https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825 says: su[1980]: pam_systemd(su-l:session): Cannot create session: Already running in a session Why the bug report implies that pam_systemd shoud create a new 'session' (whatever it means by 'session') *and* set some obscure environment variables is beyond me. Especially since su(1) directly says that su should not create session, it should reuse an existing one. Reco
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 15:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2O3o-2Gr-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157032 |
On Saturday 29 August 2015 06:18:56 Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:49:12 +1200 > > Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 07:12:32PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > > To: > > > > > > Well, there have been long discussions about this, but the problem > > > is that what "su" is supposed to do is very unclear. On one hand > > > it's supposed *to open a new session* and change a number of > > > execution context parameters (uid, gid, env, ...), and on the > > > other it's supposed to inherit a lot concepts from the originating > > > session (tty, cgroup, audit, ...). > > > > > > > > > I'm kind of surprised that the bug was not closed as WONTFIX. > > > su(1) is not a "full login", but it's not supposed to provide one > > > anyway. > > > > su - <name> > > > > Has always worked fine for me. What's the problem? > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825 says: > > su[1980]: pam_systemd(su-l:session): Cannot create session: Already > running in a session > > Why the bug report implies that pam_systemd shoud create a new > 'session' (whatever it means by 'session') *and* set some obscure > environment variables is beyond me. Especially since su(1) directly > says that su should not create session, it should reuse an existing > one. > > Reco Now I am again confused. As the admin for my 4 machine home network, there are things that run as other users, so I'll use amanda, the backup program as an example here. In order to adjust any of its configuration, and do it without mucking with file ownerships & permissions, I much first do a sudo -i to make me an immortal root. Then I can either "su amanda", or su amanda -c "geany filename" so that for the duration of that commands execution, I am the user amanda. Some distro's setup a "backup" group and make amanda a member, but those distro's do not always preserve the amanda tenet of running with just enough permissions to get the job done, so I tend to steer clear and only install from the tarball. My web page in the sig is also on this machine, all running in another users sandbox, so again to manage that, I have to do the 'become root' bit, then edit and keep track of perms with chown/chmod which I can only do with the sudo -i phantom roor. If su goes away, IMNSHO, it will be such a PITA that it will encourage far more people to just give up and run their machines as root full time. And I don't believe for a millisecond that is the effect intended. So, if su goes away, how do I accomplish those tasks in a suitable manner that will not bore a hole in the user sandbox? Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 15:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2OmK-32O-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157037 |
Hi. On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:55:00 -0400 Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote: > On Saturday 29 August 2015 06:18:56 Reco wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:49:12 +1200 > > > > Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 07:12:32PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > > > To: > > > > > > > > Well, there have been long discussions about this, but the problem > > > > is that what "su" is supposed to do is very unclear. On one hand > > > > it's supposed *to open a new session* and change a number of > > > > execution context parameters (uid, gid, env, ...), and on the > > > > other it's supposed to inherit a lot concepts from the originating > > > > session (tty, cgroup, audit, ...). > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm kind of surprised that the bug was not closed as WONTFIX. > > > > su(1) is not a "full login", but it's not supposed to provide one > > > > anyway. > > > > > > su - <name> > > > > > > Has always worked fine for me. What's the problem? > > > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825 says: > > > > su[1980]: pam_systemd(su-l:session): Cannot create session: Already > > running in a session > > > > Why the bug report implies that pam_systemd shoud create a new > > 'session' (whatever it means by 'session') *and* set some obscure > > environment variables is beyond me. Especially since su(1) directly > > says that su should not create session, it should reuse an existing > > one. > > > Now I am again confused. As the admin for my 4 machine home network, > there are things that run as other users, so I'll use amanda, the backup > program as an example here. Welcome to the club. I'm confused by this bugreport too. > In order to adjust any of its configuration, and do it without mucking > with file ownerships & permissions, I much first do a sudo -i to make me > an immortal root. Then I can either "su amanda", or su amanda -c "geany > filename" so that for the duration of that commands execution, I am the > user amanda. Some distro's setup a "backup" group and make amanda a > member, but those distro's do not always preserve the amanda tenet of > running with just enough permissions to get the job done, so I tend to > steer clear and only install from the tarball. > > My web page in the sig is also on this machine, all running in another > users sandbox, so again to manage that, I have to do the 'become root' > bit, then edit and keep track of perms with chown/chmod which I can only > do with the sudo -i phantom roor. Kind of old-fashioned for my taste (I'd use 'sudo -u' in the first place), but perfectly sane approach. > If su goes away, IMNSHO, it will be such a PITA that it will encourage > far more people to just give up and run their machines as root full > time. And I don't believe for a millisecond that is the effect > intended. They provide some systemd-specific kludge instead of su. So it's not that bad. And, given the current systemd adoption rate in Debian, I'd say that we, stable users, have 3-4 years before that "machinectl login" thing will be available to us. > So, if su goes away, how do I accomplish those tasks in a suitable > manner that will not bore a hole in the user sandbox? If it comes to this (i.e 'su' will go away) - I just use busybox (which has perfectly working implementation of su without the fancy bits). I.e. busybox su - Reco
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 16:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2OPL-3Bw-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157038 |
On Saturday 29 August 2015 09:24:52 Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:55:00 -0400 > > Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote: > > On Saturday 29 August 2015 06:18:56 Reco wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:49:12 +1200 > > > > > > Chris Bannister <cbannister@slingshot.co.nz> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 07:12:32PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > > > Well, there have been long discussions about this, but the > > > > > problem is that what "su" is supposed to do is very unclear. > > > > > On one hand it's supposed *to open a new session* and change a > > > > > number of execution context parameters (uid, gid, env, ...), > > > > > and on the other it's supposed to inherit a lot concepts from > > > > > the originating session (tty, cgroup, audit, ...). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm kind of surprised that the bug was not closed as WONTFIX. > > > > > su(1) is not a "full login", but it's not supposed to provide > > > > > one anyway. > > > > > > > > su - <name> > > > > > > > > Has always worked fine for me. What's the problem? > > > > > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825 says: > > > > > > su[1980]: pam_systemd(su-l:session): Cannot create session: > > > Already running in a session > > > > > > Why the bug report implies that pam_systemd shoud create a new > > > 'session' (whatever it means by 'session') *and* set some obscure > > > environment variables is beyond me. Especially since su(1) > > > directly says that su should not create session, it should reuse > > > an existing one. > > > > Now I am again confused. As the admin for my 4 machine home > > network, there are things that run as other users, so I'll use > > amanda, the backup program as an example here. > > Welcome to the club. I'm confused by this bugreport too. > > > In order to adjust any of its configuration, and do it without > > mucking with file ownerships & permissions, I much first do a sudo > > -i to make me an immortal root. Then I can either "su amanda", or > > su amanda -c "geany filename" so that for the duration of that > > commands execution, I am the user amanda. Some distro's setup a > > "backup" group and make amanda a member, but those distro's do not > > always preserve the amanda tenet of running with just enough > > permissions to get the job done, so I tend to steer clear and only > > install from the tarball. > > > > My web page in the sig is also on this machine, all running in > > another users sandbox, so again to manage that, I have to do the > > 'become root' bit, then edit and keep track of perms with > > chown/chmod which I can only do with the sudo -i phantom roor. > > Kind of old-fashioned for my taste (I'd use 'sudo -u' in the first > place), but perfectly sane approach. ISTR I read that someplace, tried it, but it needed a root password, which does not exist on any of these machines, hence the "two stage" approach to getting the job done. > > If su goes away, IMNSHO, it will be such a PITA that it will > > encourage far more people to just give up and run their machines as > > root full time. And I don't believe for a millisecond that is the > > effect intended. > > They provide some systemd-specific kludge instead of su. So it's not > that bad. I don't recall recognizing that being discussed yet. > And, given the current systemd adoption rate in Debian, I'd say that > we, stable users, have 3-4 years before that "machinectl login" thing > will be available to us. > > > So, if su goes away, how do I accomplish those tasks in a suitable > > manner that will not bore a hole in the user sandbox? > > If it comes to this (i.e 'su' will go away) - I just use busybox > (which has perfectly working implementation of su without the fancy > bits). I.e. > > busybox su - Command not found. Wheezy 32 bit install. Thanks. > > Reco Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 16:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2PiO-4pe-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157041 |
On 2015-08-29, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote: >> >> If it comes to this (i.e 'su' will go away) - I just use busybox >> (which has perfectly working implementation of su without the fancy >> bits). I.e. >> >> busybox su - > > Command not found. Wheezy 32 bit install. > https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/busybox Spooned.
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| From | Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2Psu-4AG-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157043 |
On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 14:27:37 +0000 (UTC) Curt <curty@free.fr> wrote: > On 2015-08-29, Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote: > >> > >> If it comes to this (i.e 'su' will go away) - I just use busybox > >> (which has perfectly working implementation of su without the fancy > >> bits). I.e. > >> > >> busybox su - > > > > Command not found. Wheezy 32 bit install. > > > > https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/busybox > > Spooned. https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/busybox-static 'busybox' in Debian is dynamically-linked, which kind of defeats the purpose of the busybox. So - 'busybox-static'. Reco
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 17:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2Qoy-5X8-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157046 |
On 2015-08-29, Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/busybox >> >> Spooned. > > https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/busybox-static > > 'busybox' in Debian is dynamically-linked, which kind of defeats the > purpose of the busybox. So - 'busybox-static'. > > Reco Ah ok.
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2Pst-4AG-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157041 |
On Saturday 29 August 2015 09:49:55 Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 29 August 2015 09:24:52 Reco wrote: > > Hi. [...] > > Kind of old-fashioned for my taste (I'd use 'sudo -u' in the first > > place), but perfectly sane approach. > > ISTR I read that someplace, tried it, but it needed a root password, > which does not exist on any of these machines, hence the "two stage" > approach to getting the job done. So I just now played some more, and did make it work. Its an option that ought to be better explained in the man page. Thank you, I learned something today. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-29 16:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2Psu-4AG-31@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157041 |
Hi. On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:49:55 -0400 Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote: > > > If su goes away, IMNSHO, it will be such a PITA that it will > > > encourage far more people to just give up and run their machines as > > > root full time. And I don't believe for a millisecond that is the > > > effect intended. > > > > They provide some systemd-specific kludge instead of su. So it's not > > that bad. > > I don't recall recognizing that being discussed yet. Please read the bugreport. It's all there. https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825 > > > And, given the current systemd adoption rate in Debian, I'd say that > > we, stable users, have 3-4 years before that "machinectl login" thing > > will be available to us. > > > > > So, if su goes away, how do I accomplish those tasks in a suitable > > > manner that will not bore a hole in the user sandbox? > > > > If it comes to this (i.e 'su' will go away) - I just use busybox > > (which has perfectly working implementation of su without the fancy > > bits). I.e. > > > > busybox su - > > Command not found. Wheezy 32 bit install. Obviously for this command to work it's required to install busybox. I'd recommend busybox-static package. Reco
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-30 02:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q2YP7-1in-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157047 |
On Saturday 29 August 2015 10:39:07 Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:49:55 -0400 > > Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote: > > > > If su goes away, IMNSHO, it will be such a PITA that it will > > > > encourage far more people to just give up and run their machines > > > > as root full time. And I don't believe for a millisecond that > > > > is the effect intended. > > > > > > They provide some systemd-specific kludge instead of su. So it's > > > not that bad. > > > > I don't recall recognizing that being discussed yet. > > Please read the bugreport. It's all there. > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825 > > > > And, given the current systemd adoption rate in Debian, I'd say > > > that we, stable users, have 3-4 years before that "machinectl > > > login" thing will be available to us. > > > > > > > So, if su goes away, how do I accomplish those tasks in a > > > > suitable manner that will not bore a hole in the user sandbox? > > > > > > If it comes to this (i.e 'su' will go away) - I just use busybox > > > (which has perfectly working implementation of su without the > > > fancy bits). I.e. > > > > > > busybox su - > > > > Command not found. Wheezy 32 bit install. > > Obviously for this command to work it's required to install busybox. > I'd recommend busybox-static package. > > Reco Installed it, suid problems: gene@coyote:~$ busybox su amanda su: must be suid to work properly gene@coyote:~$ busybox su - su: must be suid to work properly Is it still finding the system su first? Thanks Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-30 10:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <q36tk-3Tg-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #157086 |
Hi. On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 20:30:58 -0400 Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote: > On Saturday 29 August 2015 10:39:07 Reco wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:49:55 -0400 > > > > Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> wrote: > > > > > If su goes away, IMNSHO, it will be such a PITA that it will > > > > > encourage far more people to just give up and run their machines > > > > > as root full time. And I don't believe for a millisecond that > > > > > is the effect intended. > > > > > > > > They provide some systemd-specific kludge instead of su. So it's > > > > not that bad. > > > > > > I don't recall recognizing that being discussed yet. > > > > Please read the bugreport. It's all there. > > > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825 > > > > > > And, given the current systemd adoption rate in Debian, I'd say > > > > that we, stable users, have 3-4 years before that "machinectl > > > > login" thing will be available to us. > > > > > > > > > So, if su goes away, how do I accomplish those tasks in a > > > > > suitable manner that will not bore a hole in the user sandbox? > > > > > > > > If it comes to this (i.e 'su' will go away) - I just use busybox > > > > (which has perfectly working implementation of su without the > > > > fancy bits). I.e. > > > > > > > > busybox su - > > > > > > Command not found. Wheezy 32 bit install. > > > > Obviously for this command to work it's required to install busybox. > > I'd recommend busybox-static package. > > > > Reco > > Installed it, suid problems: > > gene@coyote:~$ busybox su amanda > su: must be suid to work properly > gene@coyote:~$ busybox su - > su: must be suid to work properly > > Is it still finding the system su first? No. The 'problem' is exactly what it tolds. Meaning: 1) "Original" su is suid root-owned binary: $ ls -la /bin/su -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 40168 Nov 21 2014 /bin/su 2) Busybox, on the other hand - is not: $ ls -la /bin/busybox -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1837008 Feb 19 2015 /bin/busybox So, *root*-invoked "busybox su" should behave exactly like original "su". Everyone other than root are told to get lost. Note that: 1) Setting suid bit on busybox is *extremely* bad idea. Don't do it ever do it (as busybox provides *much* more than su). 2) Your way of using su you've described should not be affected by this little inconvinience as you become root first, and do su second. Reco
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