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Groups > linux.debian.user > #275421 > unrolled thread
| Started by | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-12-09 16:00 +0100 |
| Last post | 2024-12-12 04:30 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 130 — 19 participants |
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restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-09 16:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2024-12-09 16:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-09 20:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-09 22:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-10 03:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-10 23:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-12-11 03:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-11 05:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-11 06:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-12 02:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-16 00:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-16 15:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-16 18:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-11 03:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-11 07:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Bob McGowan <ramjr0915@gmail.com> - 2024-12-11 08:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-12 02:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-11 22:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-12 02:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-12 06:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-12 09:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-12 18:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-12-12 18:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-12 19:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-12-12 19:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-12 21:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-12 20:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze eben@gmx.us - 2024-12-12 21:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2024-12-12 20:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-12-13 07:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 08:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-12-13 10:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 10:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze tomas@tuxteam.de - 2024-12-13 11:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 11:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-12-13 13:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-12-14 00:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 01:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 01:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-14 04:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 05:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-14 07:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 15:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-14 16:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-14 17:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 16:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 17:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-14 18:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 05:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-15 17:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 16:10 +0100
SOLVED ? Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-15 18:40 +0100
Re: SOLVED ? Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-12-16 14:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-14 07:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-12-14 23:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 11:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 04:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 07:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-12-13 07:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 08:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze pocket@homemail.com - 2024-12-13 15:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-12-13 15:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze pocket@homemail.com - 2024-12-13 15:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 16:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 15:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-12-13 18:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2024-12-13 16:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 17:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-12-13 17:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-12-13 18:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 21:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 18:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 17:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-13 18:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-12-13 18:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-12-13 19:30 +0100
Installer and assistive technologies (was: Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 16:00 +0100
Re: Installer and assistive technologies (was: Re: restart lasts maybe aminute till next freeze) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 16:40 +0100
Re: Installer and assistive technologies (was: Re: restart lasts maybe aminute till next freeze) "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-13 19:50 +0100
Re: Installer and assistive technologies (was: Re: restart lastsmaybe aminute till next freeze) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 22:10 +0100
Re: Installer and assistive technologies David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-14 09:00 +0100
Re: Installer and assistive technologies gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 15:50 +0100
Re: Installer and assistive technologies David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-14 18:40 +0100
Re: Installer and assistive technologies gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 21:50 +0100
Re: Installer and assistive technologies David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-14 22:30 +0100
Orca install repeating - can't reproduce [WAS Re: Installer and assistive technologies] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-14 23:30 +0100
Re: Orca install repeating - can't reproduce [WAS Re: Installer and assistive technologies] Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 05:10 +0100
Re: Orca install repeating - can't reproduce [WAS Re: Installer andassistive technologies] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-15 14:30 +0100
Re: Orca install repeating - can't reproduce [WAS Re: Installer andassistive technologies] Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 15:50 +0100
Re: Orca install repeating - can't reproduce [WAS Re: Installerandassistive technologies] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-15 18:10 +0100
Re: Orca install repeating - can't reproduce [WAS Re: Installerandassistive technologies] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-12-15 18:40 +0100
SOLVED Re: Orca install repeating - can't reproduce [WAS Re:Installerandassistive technologies] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-15 19:00 +0100
Re: Orca install repeating - can't reproduce [WAS Re: Installer and assistive technologies] Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-12-15 15:30 +0100
Re: Orca install repeating - can't reproduce [WAS Re: Installer and assistive technologies] Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 19:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-12-13 18:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 22:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 22:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 23:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-12-14 07:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-12-16 17:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 22:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-12-13 22:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 22:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-14 07:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 15:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-12-14 16:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 17:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-12-14 18:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 21:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-12-15 10:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 16:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-15 19:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-12-14 20:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-12-14 21:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-12-14 21:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 21:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-14 16:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-14 17:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-14 18:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-12 18:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-12 19:00 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 04:20 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-13 07:40 +0100
Disabling orca (was: Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 16:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-12-12 13:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-12 16:40 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-12-12 02:30 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-12-12 02:50 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-12-12 04:10 +0100
Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-12-12 04:30 +0100
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| From | pocket@homemail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 15:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTewF-gE0o-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275624 |
> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 at 2:00 AM > From: "gene heskett" <gheskett@shentel.net> > To: tomas@tuxteam.de > Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze > > > On 12/13/24 01:42, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:37:46AM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > >> On 12/12/24 22:21, Max Nikulin wrote: > >>> On 13/12/2024 01:15, gene heskett wrote: > >>>> Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying > >>>> Receiver[...]> bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface > >>>> Device > >>>> bInterfaceSubClass 1 Boot Interface Subclass > >>>> bInterfaceProtocol 2 Mouse > >>> So it is a HID and should not cause any trouble. > >>> > >>> I suspect, the issue is caused by a serial port adapter. Since serial > >>> ports have nothing similar to USB interface classes, assistive > >>> technologies may try to treat it as a Braille device. > >> I have two of those fdti devices in my system normally, unplugged as > >> instructed for the duration of the install. Nothing I did with the installer > >> stopped it from installing that crap. > >> > >> IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no. > > It's not a no-no, Gene. It just contradicts the experience of so many > > people that you'd have to present a heavily smoking gun to move that > > discussion. > > > > Cheers > I'd be ecstatic if something would stick up a hand and complain, as it > would probably be a useful clue, but crickets, Tomas I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!! I've had it install orca and company also. The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum install. Remove all the cuft took too long and the animosity from the debian folks was well over the top. Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux. Arch was way less trouble and I got what I wanted without removing a ton of installed things I just didn't need. I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the dustbin of history soon. Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!!
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 15:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTewF-gE0o-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275635 |
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 15:00:21 +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!! > I've had it install orca and company also. If you want to help Debian fix its installer, give some details. What version did you install? (The exact image filename is helpful.) What tasks did you select during the task selection stage? What hardware device do you suspect led to orca being installed? If that device is detachable, did you try again after detaching the device? If so, what results did you get? > I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the dustbin of history soon. > > Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!! Well. It sounds like you don't actually want to help. Unfortunate.
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| From | pocket@homemail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 15:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTeQ1-gE7m-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275636 |
> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 at 9:08 AM > From: "Greg Wooledge" <greg@wooledge.org> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Subject: Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze > > On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 15:00:21 +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > > I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!! > > I've had it install orca and company also. > > If you want to help Debian fix its installer, give some details. > What version did you install? (The exact image filename is helpful.) > What tasks did you select during the task selection stage? > What hardware device do you suspect led to orca being installed? > If that device is detachable, did you try again after detaching the > device? If so, what results did you get? Well not on your life, debian has thrown so much shade at me in 2 years that I won't waste any of my time. And waste my time it would be because debian won't listen and just throw shade at any information I would give them anyway. I don't need the non sense. I don't need the hassle. > > > I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the dustbin of history soon. > > > > Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!! > > Well. It sounds like you don't actually want to help. Unfortunate. > Unfortunate for debian, Fortunate for me BTW I am looking to "sign on/up" to Arch Linux ARM in the new year. You know build/update/test packages, provide support for them that kind of thing. Returning to lurker mode.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 16:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTfCp-gEEF-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275636 |
On 12/13/24 09:09, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 15:00:21 +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote: >> I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!! >> I've had it install orca and company also. > If you want to help Debian fix its installer, give some details. > What version did you install? That has been posted ad infinitum. Bookworm, netinstall. You all have simply choosen to disbelieve me. Gotta be something I did. > (The exact image filename is helpful.) > What tasks did you select during the task selection stage? > What hardware device do you suspect led to orca being installed? > If that device is detachable, did you try again after detaching the > device? If so, what results did you get? the original bookworm net installer, the only usb plugged in was the logitek keyboard/ mouse button. NOTHING ELSE was plugged into any usb port. IS THIS LOUD ENOUGH? >> I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the dustbin of history soon. >> >> Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!! > Well. It sounds like you don't actually want to help. Unfortunate. I would not call it that, but the defense of what I've called a broken installer that I've gotten from complaining about it, downright insulting in a couple instances is most certainly seen as encouraging me/us to switch distro's. I would in a heartbeat if linuxcnc would build on anything else for sure. It will build on the genuine pi4's, my biggest metal lathe is being run by a pi4, so I've done that many times but the interface changes are costly at nearly $300 total per machine, 3 machines. I'd have to output nearly $1300 just for that essentially starting from square one. I'd eventually save that in the energy bill, the pi4 and its AOC monitor idles at 22 watts, and I've 3 old Dell's burning 200+ watts each that would get ripped out. The question then is will I live long enough to see the savings, I'm 90 yo now. DM-II for 45 years, pacemaker, stents in places and a TAVR valve in my heart now. I'm done if that valve fails. Estimated life of the TAVR is 10 years, and I'm in year 6 now. > > . Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 15:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTeZI-gEaE-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275635 |
On 12/13/24 09:00, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > >> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 at 2:00 AM >> From: "gene heskett" <gheskett@shentel.net> >> To: tomas@tuxteam.de >> Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org >> Subject: Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze >> >> >> On 12/13/24 01:42, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: >>> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 01:37:46AM -0500, gene heskett wrote: >>>> On 12/12/24 22:21, Max Nikulin wrote: >>>>> On 13/12/2024 01:15, gene heskett wrote: >>>>>> Bus 003 Device 004: ID 046d:c52b Logitech, Inc. Unifying >>>>>> Receiver[...]> bInterfaceClass 3 Human Interface >>>>>> Device >>>>>> bInterfaceSubClass 1 Boot Interface Subclass >>>>>> bInterfaceProtocol 2 Mouse >>>>> So it is a HID and should not cause any trouble. >>>>> >>>>> I suspect, the issue is caused by a serial port adapter. Since serial >>>>> ports have nothing similar to USB interface classes, assistive >>>>> technologies may try to treat it as a Braille device. >>>> I have two of those fdti devices in my system normally, unplugged as >>>> instructed for the duration of the install. Nothing I did with the installer >>>> stopped it from installing that crap. >>>> >>>> IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no. >>> It's not a no-no, Gene. It just contradicts the experience of so many >>> people that you'd have to present a heavily smoking gun to move that >>> discussion. >>> >>> Cheers >> I'd be ecstatic if something would stick up a hand and complain, as it >> would probably be a useful clue, but crickets, Tomas > I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!! > I've had it install orca and company also. > The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum install. Remove all the cuft took too long and the animosity from the debian folks was well over the top. > Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux. > Arch was way less trouble and I got what I wanted without removing a ton of installed things I just didn't need. > I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the dustbin of history soon. > > Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!! > Finally, after nearly 2 years, somebody else has an installer problem besides me.. > . Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 18:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JThNT-gFX6-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275638 |
Hi, On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 09:36:26AM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On 12/13/24 09:00, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > > Did I mention the installer is broke!!!!! > > > Finally, after nearly 2 years, somebody else has an installer problem > besides me.. Sure, I think you and Pocket would get on like a house on fire! Why not give Arch a go while you're at it? No need to tell us about it though. 😀 Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
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| From | Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 16:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTfsJ-gEBh-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275635 |
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 15:00:21 +0100 pocket@homemail.com wrote: > I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!! > I've had it install orca and company also. > The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of > packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum > install. The only problem here is that orca is not necessarily installed by the installer. I do a command line only installation, no X, no desktop, etc. And it does not install orca. orca is pulled in by "apt install task-xfce-desktop". If you really object to having orca, I suggest you find out which package(s) pull(s) in orca, and see if you can remove it as a dependency. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 17:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTgyt-gFfr-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275642 |
On 13/12/2024 22:00, Charles Curley wrote: > orca is pulled in by "apt install > task-xfce-desktop". On this way it is an optional package (Recommends, not Depends). So Gene has something different.
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 17:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTh1w-gFpM-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275649 |
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 23:10:58 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 13/12/2024 22:00, Charles Curley wrote: > > orca is pulled in by "apt install > > task-xfce-desktop". > > On this way it is an optional package (Recommends, not Depends). So Gene has > something different. hobbit:~$ apt-get -s install task-xfce-desktop NOTE: This is only a simulation! [...] 0 upgraded, 421 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. [...] Inst xkbset (0.6-3 Debian:12.8/stable [amd64]) Inst orca (43.1-1 Debian:12.8/stable [all]) Inst p7zip (16.02+dfsg-8 Debian:12.8/stable [amd64]) [...] Recommended package *ARE* installed by default. Apt can be configured differently, but out of the box, you should expect them to be included.
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 18:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JThux-gFPY-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275652 |
On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 00:11:11 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 13/12/2024 23:40, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > Recommended package *ARE* installed by default. Apt can be configured > > differently, but out of the box, you should expect them to be included. > > Gene claimed that he can not remove it, but recommended packages may be > removed. It would be helpful to know exactly what command Gene ran, when he tried to remove it, and what the result was. It wouldn't surprise me if Gene did something like "apt remove orca", saw that it would remove some kind of task-gnome package, and got frightened and aborted it.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 21:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTkiJ-gIrJ-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275653 |
On 12/13/24 12:18, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 00:11:11 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: >> On 13/12/2024 23:40, Greg Wooledge wrote: >>> Recommended package *ARE* installed by default. Apt can be configured >>> differently, but out of the box, you should expect them to be included. >> Gene claimed that he can not remove it, but recommended packages may be >> removed. > It would be helpful to know exactly what command Gene ran, when he > tried to remove it, and what the result was. > > It wouldn't surprise me if Gene did something like "apt remove orca", > saw that it would remove some kind of task-gnome package, and got > frightened and aborted it. Precisely, it originally wanted to remove around 78 packages, including all of xfce and gnome. I wasn't sure I'd still have a cli. so didn't let that happen, but about 6 months later it did remove orca.I otherwise update at least weekly. Somethng had been changed. But I still have this lag. > . Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 18:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JThux-gFPY-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275652 |
On 13/12/2024 23:40, Greg Wooledge wrote: > Recommended package *ARE* installed by default. Apt can be configured > differently, but out of the box, you should expect them to be included. Gene claimed that he can not remove it, but recommended packages may be removed. gnome (gnome-core in trixie) namely depends on orca. I do not like it, but while I am not forced to use gnome, I am not motivated to go deeper.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 17:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTgRP-gFm7-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275642 |
On 12/13/24 10:00, Charles Curley wrote: > On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 15:00:21 +0100 > pocket@homemail.com wrote: > >> I'll say it the installer is broke!!!!! >> I've had it install orca and company also. >> The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of >> packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum >> install. > The only problem here is that orca is not necessarily installed by the > installer. I do a command line only installation, no X, no desktop, > etc. And it does not install orca. orca is pulled in by "apt install > task-xfce-desktop". Aha! My fav, not too much eye candy desktop, been using it on everything since at least wheezy. But liking xfce has nothing to do with being blind. So how did that dependency sneak into debian ????????? Its not part of xfce4 on armbian jammy, no clue about noble yet but it will be on my next 3d printer.. So now I know what pulls it in. But why is it needed on debian???????? > > If you really object to having orca, I suggest you find out which > package(s) pull(s) in orca, and see if you can remove it as a > dependency. > Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 18:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JThXz-gG0A-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275642 |
On 12/13/24 07:00, Charles Curley wrote:
> orca is pulled in by "apt install task-xfce-desktop".
On January , 2022, I installed (via USB flash drive):
debian-11.2.0-amd64-netinst
onto a 2.5" SATA III SSD (Intel SSD 520 Series 60 GB) to create
laalaa.tracy.holgerdanske.com, my current daily driver. I have moved
the SSD through various machines, depending upon need and availability.
I have never explicitly requested nor enabled assistive technologies.
I have never heard text-to-speech.
I have accidentally pressed and held keys, and/or my KVM spaghetti may
have done the same, causing a pop-up that offered assistive technologies
("sticky keys"?). I have declined such offers.
Xfce Panel -> Applications -> Settings -> Accessibility -> Assistive
Technologies shows nothing enabled on any of the tabs. I do not see any
settings for text-to-speech.
Once a month, I take a raw image with dd(1) and then update:
# apt-get update
# apt-get upgrade
# apt-get dist-upgrade
# apt-get autoclean
# apt-get autoremove
The current OS:
2024-12-13 09:02:53 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a
11.11
Linux laalaa 5.10.0-33-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.226-1 (2024-10-03)
x86_64 GNU/Linux
STFW for Debian assistive technologies:
https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-accessibility/software
Attempting to guess package names for the software mentioned:
2024-12-13 09:39:37 dpchrist@laalaa ~
$ dpkg-query --list xfce4 *eflite* espeak *festival* brltty *yasr* orca
*speech* *speak*
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
|
Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name Version
Architecture Description
+++-=====================================-===================-============-============================================================
un brltty <none> <none>
(no description available)
un cl-speech-dispatcher <none> <none>
(no description available)
un espeak <none> <none>
(no description available)
ii espeak-ng-data:amd64 1.50+dfsg-7+deb11u1 amd64
Multi-lingual software speech synthesizer: speech data files
ii libespeak-ng1:amd64 1.50+dfsg-7+deb11u1 amd64
Multi-lingual software speech synthesizer: shared library
ii libspeechd2:amd64 0.10.2-2+deb11u2 amd64
Speech Dispatcher: Shared libraries
ii orca 3.38.2-2 all
Scriptable screen reader
un python-speechd <none> <none>
(no description available)
ii python3-speechd 0.10.2-2+deb11u2 all
Python interface to Speech Dispatcher
ii speech-dispatcher 0.10.2-2+deb11u2 amd64
Common interface to speech synthesizers
ii speech-dispatcher-audio-plugins:amd64 0.10.2-2+deb11u2 amd64
Speech Dispatcher: Audio output plugins
un speech-dispatcher-baratinoo <none> <none>
(no description available)
un speech-dispatcher-cicero <none> <none>
(no description available)
un speech-dispatcher-doc-cs <none> <none>
(no description available)
un speech-dispatcher-espeak <none> <none>
(no description available)
ii speech-dispatcher-espeak-ng 0.10.2-2+deb11u2 amd64
Speech Dispatcher: Espeak-ng output module
un speech-dispatcher-festival <none> <none>
(no description available)
un speech-dispatcher-flite <none> <none>
(no description available)
un speech-dispatcher-ibmtts <none> <none>
(no description available)
un speech-dispatcher-kali <none> <none>
(no description available)
dpkg-query: no packages found matching *eflite*
dpkg-query: no packages found matching *yasr*
ii xfce4 4.16 all
Meta-package for the Xfce Lightweight Desktop Environment
So, some assistive technologies are installed. I do not use them and
they do not bother me.
David
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| From | Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 18:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JThEd-gFTJ-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275635 |
Hi, On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 03:00:21PM +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux. Do you only remain on this list to repeatedly mention that you use Arch, actually? Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 19:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <JTiAh-gGv1-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275657 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 05:28:51PM +0000, Andy Smith wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 03:00:21PM +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote: > > Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux. > > Do you only remain on this list to repeatedly mention that you use Arch, > actually? Not a good idea to feed a troll, but this time I can't resist: possibly pocket is on the Arch list complaining how Arch sucks and how they're going to switch to Debian. Or something. Cheers -- t
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| From | Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 16:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Installer and assistive technologies (was: Re: restart lasts maybe a minute till next freeze) |
| Message-ID | <JTfj3-gEin-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275619 |
On 13/12/2024 13:37, gene heskett wrote: > > IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no. Have you tried to explain your issue to installer developers in a *polite* and *constructive* way? Please, post a link to prove it.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 16:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Installer and assistive technologies (was: Re: restart lasts maybe aminute till next freeze) |
| Message-ID | <JTfVL-gELM-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275640 |
On 12/13/24 09:50, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 13/12/2024 13:37, gene heskett wrote: >> >> IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no. > > Have you tried to explain your issue to installer developers in a > *polite* and *constructive* way? Please, post a link to prove it. > You've built a wall around your developers that is light tight. I've got a tenner that says they've never seen my complaints. You purposely have made it quite difficult to file a bug report, IDK if mine ever got past your guardian angels. I did try. I am a many year subscriber to this list. Debian has put up road blocks that deflect most attempts to file a report at bugs.debian.org. Wrong dot on the i gets it rejected, Maybe debian should start by fixing that batch of pot holes so we CAN file a bug report. Do like the banks do when you've updated your browser, send a code number to our registered address to prove we are who we claim to be. Its a pita about once a month if you keep your browser up to date, BUT IT WORKS. Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 19:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Installer and assistive technologies (was: Re: restart lasts maybe aminute till next freeze) |
| Message-ID | <JTiTD-gGDZ-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275645 |
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 10:36:28AM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > On 12/13/24 09:50, Max Nikulin wrote: > > On 13/12/2024 13:37, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > > IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no. > > > > Have you tried to explain your issue to installer developers in a > > *polite* and *constructive* way? Please, post a link to prove it. > > > You've built a wall around your developers that is light tight. I've got a > tenner that says they've never seen my complaints. You purposely have made > it quite difficult to file a bug report, IDK if mine ever got past your > guardian angels. I did try. I am a many year subscriber to this list. Debian > has put up road blocks that deflect most attempts to file a report at > bugs.debian.org. Wrong dot on the i gets it rejected, Maybe debian should > start by fixing that batch of pot holes so we CAN file a bug report. > Hey Gene, Don't forget: there are Debian developers on this list. You're writing to one. People have tried to help you - and sometimes got the brush off. I have done a few thousand Debian installs: unless I've actually wanted to use Orca / espeak and a speech installer, I've never had the issues you have had. Some Braille input devices rely on serial / USB -> serial input. It is just possible that an install with serial cables enabled _might_ misidentify as a brltty. Without error messages, the rest of us can do almost nothing except guess. We've been asking for specifics from you for *years* In the middle of your 30 installs I can remember corresponding with you asking to simplify things - but no dice . The installer isn't necessarily broken - hundreds of people use it every day/week/month - but something you have done at some point has tripped an edge case, maybe. Without details / a reinstall we will never, ever know. Complaints without substance to chase down are just complaints. As it is, the readers on the list are presented with an X-Y problem pretty much every month from you. All best, as ever, and stay well, Andy Cater (amacater@debian.org) > Do like the banks do when you've updated your browser, send a code number to > our registered address to prove we are who we claim to be. Its a pita about > once a month if you keep your browser up to date, BUT IT WORKS. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. > > -- > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. > - Louis D. Brandeis >
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-13 22:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Installer and assistive technologies (was: Re: restart lastsmaybe aminute till next freeze) |
| Message-ID | <JTl57-gJAF-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #275661 |
On 12/13/24 13:48, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 10:36:28AM -0500, gene heskett wrote: >> On 12/13/24 09:50, Max Nikulin wrote: >>> On 13/12/2024 13:37, gene heskett wrote: >>>> IMNSHO the installer is busted. But mentioning that was a no-no. >>> Have you tried to explain your issue to installer developers in a >>> *polite* and *constructive* way? Please, post a link to prove it. >>> >> You've built a wall around your developers that is light tight. I've got a >> tenner that says they've never seen my complaints. You purposely have made >> it quite difficult to file a bug report, IDK if mine ever got past your >> guardian angels. I did try. I am a many year subscriber to this list. Debian >> has put up road blocks that deflect most attempts to file a report at >> bugs.debian.org. Wrong dot on the i gets it rejected, Maybe debian should >> start by fixing that batch of pot holes so we CAN file a bug report. >> > Hey Gene, > > Don't forget: there are Debian developers on this list. You're writing to > one. > > People have tried to help you - and sometimes got the brush off. Often because they are asking me to start fresh with clean drives, a multiday operation to collect all the stuff I use daily. I have already done that, many many times. It matches Alberts definition of insanity. > > I have done a few thousand Debian installs: unless I've actually wanted > to use Orca / espeak and a speech installer, I've never had the issues > you have had. > > Some Braille input devices rely on serial / USB -> serial input. It is > just possible that an install with serial cables enabled _might_ > misidentify as a brltty. > > Without error messages, the rest of us can do almost nothing except > guess. We've been asking for specifics from you for *years* > > In the middle of your 30 installs I can remember corresponding with > you asking to simplify things - but no dice > . > The installer isn't necessarily broken - hundreds of people use it > every day/week/month - but something you have done at some point has > tripped an edge case, maybe. Without details / a reinstall we will > never, ever know. Complaints without substance to chase down are > just complaints. > > As it is, the readers on the list are presented with an X-Y problem > pretty much every month from you. > > All best, as ever, and stay well, > > Andy Cater > (amacater@debian.org) > >> Do like the banks do when you've updated your browser, send a code number to >> our registered address to prove we are who we claim to be. Its a pita about >> once a month if you keep your browser up to date, BUT IT WORKS. >> >> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. >> >> -- >> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: >> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." >> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) >> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. >> - Louis D. Brandeis >> > . Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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