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Orphaned Inode Problem

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  Orphaned Inode Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2024-02-19 16:10 +0100
    Re: Orphaned Inode Problem <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-19 18:30 +0100
      Re: Orphaned Inode Problem "Stephen P. Molnar" <s.molnar@sbcglobal.net> - 2024-02-19 18:40 +0100
        Re: Orphaned Inode Problem <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-19 18:50 +0100
        Re: Orphaned Inode Problem Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2024-02-21 12:10 +0100
          Re: Orphaned Inode Problem Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2024-02-21 14:20 +0100
            Re: Orphaned Inode Problem Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2024-02-21 17:20 +0100
              Re: Orphaned Inode Problem <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-22 07:10 +0100
              Re: Orphaned Inode Problem Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2024-02-22 08:50 +0100
                Re: Orphaned Inode Problem Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2024-02-22 11:30 +0100
            Re: Orphaned Inode Problem gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-22 05:30 +0100
          Re: Orphaned Inode Problem David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-21 19:20 +0100
            Re: Orphaned Inode Problem Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com> - 2024-02-21 22:40 +0100
      Re: Orphaned Inode Problem Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2024-02-19 20:20 +0100
        red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? (Was Re: Orphaned Inode Problem) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-20 01:50 +0100
          Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-02-20 02:20 +0100
            Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-20 02:30 +0100
              Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-02-20 03:10 +0100
                Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-20 10:30 +0100
                  Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-20 14:50 +0100
              Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-20 04:10 +0100
                Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-20 04:20 +0100
                  Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-20 04:40 +0100
          Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? (Was Re: Orphaned Inode  Problem) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-20 03:40 +0100
          Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? (Was Re: Orphaned Inode  Problem) jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2024-02-20 04:40 +0100
            Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? (Was Re: Orphaned Inode Problem) Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2024-02-20 11:00 +0100
              Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? (Was Re: Orphaned Inode Problem) Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2024-02-20 11:20 +0100

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#267607 — Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"?

On 2/19/24 20:29, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 08:16:49PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
>>> I've never heard of this. I did a bit of searching around and all I
>>> can find is assertions that cable colour doesn't matter for SATA. I
>>> can't seem to find anything about red pigment damaging the copper.
>>> Have you got a reference so I can learn more?
>>
>> Don't you ever read Gene Heskett posts?
> 
> Ah I see:
> 
>      https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/06/msg00103.html
> 
>      Stefan: Can you point to any evidence?
> 
>      Gene: Just my own life [segue to story from 1970]
> 
> The usual story.
> 
> Yeah I skipped that thread the first time around owing to its
> subject line containing "urban legends".
> 
>> consider searching this very list's archives.
> 
> Moments of my life I will never get back, and no more authoritative
> sources unfortunately!
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 
Andy, look at that CET after my name in the sig, that stands for 
Certified Electronics Tachnician.  We teach EE's which there are 1000's 
of compared to us, what their profs didn't teach them before issuing 
that sheepskin they hang on the office wall. I'm also a 1st phone, an 
easy test I didn't crack a book for. And I was familiar enough, having 
made a living from electronics for 20+ year including the physics of 
klystrons when I saw the notice that the test was available so I walked 
into the profs classroom and laid my fee for the test on his desk. 
Allocated 4 hours, I handed it back to him in 45 minutes. Of 125 
questions, I blacked the right box on 123. He I found had been teaching 
that course for 5 years, I was the first that passed it. Registered as 
NB-116. 20 some years later I checked to see how many had passed since, 
they were up to NB-122. That's telling indeed.

Now I'm in my 90th year, and with a fading short term memory and a pita 
on this list, but I'm still here till I miss roll call some morning.

Take care and stay well ANDY.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#267608 — Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"?

Hi,

On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 10:06:23PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> Andy, look at that CET after my name in the sig, that stands for Certified
> Electronics Tachnician.

There isn't a polite way to say this really but unfortunately I am
unable to take you seriously as you've posted so many outright
incorrect assertions to this mailing list in the past.

I can list off my qualifications and experience and still be told
pretty often that I don't know what I am talking about, and sometimes
I probably don't, so let's leave it at that.

Regards,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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#267610 — Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"?

On 2/19/24 22:15, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 10:06:23PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
>> Andy, look at that CET after my name in the sig, that stands for Certified
>> Electronics Tachnician.
> 
> There isn't a polite way to say this really but unfortunately I am
> unable to take you seriously as you've posted so many outright
> incorrect assertions to this mailing list in the past.
> 
> I can list off my qualifications and experience and still be told
> pretty often that I don't know what I am talking about, and sometimes
> I probably don't, so let's leave it at that.
> 
> Regards,
> Andy
> 
Thats a good way to cap this Andy, thanks. stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#267606 — Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? (Was Re: Orphaned Inode Problem)

On 2/19/24 19:49, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 04:12:44PM -0300, Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ wrote:
>> The notorious red SATA cables - I threw them out long ago. The red
>> pigment eats up the fine copper threads, changing the impedance of the
>> cable and eventually making false contact before failing completely.
> 
> I've never heard of this. I did a bit of searching around and all I
> can find is assertions that cable colour doesn't matter for SATA. I
> can't seem to find anything about red pigment damaging the copper.
> Have you got a reference so I can learn more?
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy

Andy, I am the source of that red cable story. Actually it is not 
technically a red but a magenta that fluoresces reddish to get that 
brightness.  And my history with early failure of cables that used that 
dye to color the insulation goes back to the 1970's when the majority of 
the CB radios sold were from japan, not china.  Microphone cables that 
included a push to talk start failing quite rapidly, The hot red wire 
was used for that about 99% of the time..Open up the plug or the 
microphone, the red wire had come unsoldered or broken off, attempt to 
strip it back to good wire wasn't possible. there was no good copper 
left anyplace in the cable. Cut an inch of it off where there should 
have been copper, grab it by the end with suture clamps and thump it 
with a pencil over white copy paper and shake the copper out of it as a 
reddish, face powder fine dust, the copper had been I assume made into 
copper oxide. It took every good tech in the country to start returning 
mike cables back to the makers as defective before they got the message 
that that die was poison. That took about 9 months before we could order 
replacement cable specifing that they would be returned for credit if we 
found any 'hot" red in the cables they were selling us. The shortage at 
the time forced them to ship whatever they had I guess.  If you goto 
Loews or any electrical supply where they have to sell NEC approved 
cabling, you will NOT see that red on any wire on the shelf or in the 
rack. Then about the time sata came out, they found a new market for 
that plastic dye, and sure as heck, we had cabling problems out the yang 
in about 3 years. If you have that hot red wire anyplace in you 
computer, it will fail, order more cables.  Tan, Black, Yellow, but not 
hot red.  And sleep better knowing that time bomb has gone out with the 
trash.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis

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#267611 — Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? (Was Re: Orphaned Inode Problem)

On 20/2/24 08:48, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 04:12:44PM -0300, Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ wrote:
>> The notorious red SATA cables - I threw them out long ago. The red
>> pigment eats up the fine copper threads, changing the impedance of the
>> cable and eventually making false contact before failing completely.
> I've never heard of this. I did a bit of searching around and all I
> can find is assertions that cable colour doesn't matter for SATA. I
> can't seem to find anything about red pigment damaging the copper.
> Have you got a reference so I can learn more?


I find it unlikely that the color of the outer sheath of a cable affects 
the conductors as they have their own individual sheaths usually of a 
different material to the sheath.

It's possible that some manufacturer made cables with faulty individual 
insulation and their brand used a red outer sheath. In that case the 
color of the sheath correlates with faulty cables but is not the cause 
of the faulty cables.

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#267625 — Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? (Was Re: Orphaned Inode Problem)

On Montag, 19. Februar 2024 21:48:52 -03 Andy Smith wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 04:12:44PM -0300, Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ
wrote:
> > The notorious red SATA cables - I threw them out long ago. The red
> > pigment eats up the fine copper threads, changing the impedance of
> > the cable and eventually making false contact before failing
> > completely.
> I've never heard of this. I did a bit of searching around and all I
> can find is assertions that cable colour doesn't matter for SATA. I
> can't seem to find anything about red pigment damaging the copper.
> Have you got a reference so I can learn more?
>
> Thanks,
> Andy

Experience ...
"notoriously bad" on my work bench.
Audio cables, SATA cables, even red cables of 1.5mm2 upwards. The
corrosion can be seen although it takes decades for the thicker cables
to deteriorate.
It very much depends on where the cables have been manufactured.
Never had problems with European made or US made telephone cables with
wires with red sheeths. But copper cable manufacturing has been
outsourced to Asia (and Argentina - Pirelli but those are good) many
decades ago.

--
Eike Lantzsch KY4PZ / ZP5CGE

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#267627 — Re: red SATA cables "notoriously bad"? (Was Re: Orphaned Inode Problem)

On Dienstag, 20. Februar 2024 06:58:31 -03 Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE / KY4PZ
wrote:
> On Montag, 19. Februar 2024 21:48:52 -03 Andy Smith wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 04:12:44PM -0300, Eike Lantzsch ZP5CGE /
> > KY4PZ
> wrote:
> > > The notorious red SATA cables - I threw them out long ago. The red
> > > pigment eats up the fine copper threads, changing the impedance of
> > > the cable and eventually making false contact before failing
> > > completely.
> >
> > I've never heard of this. I did a bit of searching around and all I
> > can find is assertions that cable colour doesn't matter for SATA. I
> > can't seem to find anything about red pigment damaging the copper.
> > Have you got a reference so I can learn more?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Andy
>
> Experience ...
> "notoriously bad" on my work bench.
> Audio cables, SATA cables, even red cables of 1.5mm2 upwards. The
> corrosion can be seen although it takes decades for the thicker cables
> to deteriorate.
> It very much depends on where the cables have been manufactured.
> Never had problems with European made or US made telephone cables with
> wires with red sheeths. But copper cable manufacturing has been
> outsourced to Asia (and Argentina - Pirelli but those are good) many
> decades ago.

If you open the sheeth of the red SATA cable, you will see that at least
three wires have no extra sheeth but are directly embedded into the red
plastic. 4 are shielded. So I guess that those wires are not affected.
There is one naked wire in the middle and two to the right and left.

--
Eike Lantzsch KY4PZ / ZP5CGE

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