Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #266903 > unrolled thread

what keyboard do you use?

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  what keyboard do you use? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 02:30 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com> - 2024-02-03 02:50 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 04:00 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2024-02-03 03:00 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2024-02-03 03:10 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-02-03 08:40 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 15:40 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-04 11:30 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2024-02-04 17:30 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2024-02-04 18:40 +0100
          Re: what keyboard do you use? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-04 19:00 +0100
            Re: what keyboard do you use? Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2024-02-04 19:10 +0100
              Re: what keyboard do you use? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-04 19:30 +0100
                Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 12:40 +0100
                  Re: what keyboard do you use? "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2024-02-05 15:50 +0100
                    How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you  use?) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 21:10 +0100
                      Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2024-02-05 21:40 +0100
                      Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-05 21:40 +0100
                        Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 23:50 +0100
                          Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-02-06 12:30 +0100
                            Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 15:10 +0100
                      Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-05 22:10 +0100
                        Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 00:20 +0100
                          Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-06 05:30 +0100
                            Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-06 05:50 +0100
                              Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-06 06:30 +0100
                                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-06 06:40 +0100
                                  Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-06 15:20 +0100
                            Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 11:30 +0100
                              Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-07 04:50 +0100
                                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-07 07:00 +0100
                                  Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-07 13:20 +0100
                                    Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-02-07 14:40 +0100
                                  Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-13 08:20 +0100
                                    Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-21 20:00 +0100
                                      Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-21 23:20 +0100
                                        Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-26 04:30 +0100
                          Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-06 10:20 +0100
                            Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 11:40 +0100
                              Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-06 11:50 +0100
                        Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-02-06 04:20 +0100
                      Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) Brian Sammon <debian-users-list@brisammon.fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-06 07:40 +0100
                        Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-02-06 13:10 +0100
                        Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 14:00 +0100
                        solved: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard  do you use?) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 16:00 +0100
                      Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2024-02-06 11:20 +0100
                        Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-06 12:00 +0100
                        Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 12:50 +0100
                          Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2024-02-06 13:30 +0100
                            Of German keycap translations [was: How can we change the keyboard  layout?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-06 13:40 +0100
                              Re: Of German keycap translations [was: How can we change the  keyboard layout?] hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 14:50 +0100
                            Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 14:40 +0100
                            [OT] (I guess) Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Michael Lange <klappnase@t-online.de> - 2024-02-07 00:00 +0100
                  Re: what keyboard do you use? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-02-06 05:20 +0100
                    Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 12:10 +0100
                      Re: what keyboard do you use? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-06 13:20 +0100
            Re: what keyboard do you use? "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2024-02-05 18:10 +0100
          Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 12:30 +0100
            Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-05 15:10 +0100
              Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 21:50 +0100
                On graphical environments [was: what keyboard do you use?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-06 06:40 +0100
                  Re: On graphical environments [was: what keyboard do you use?] hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 15:00 +0100
                    Re: On graphical environments [was: what keyboard do you use?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-06 15:10 +0100
                Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-06 15:10 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-04 18:40 +0100
          Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 12:10 +0100
            Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-05 15:10 +0100
              Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 20:40 +0100
                Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-06 15:10 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2024-02-03 05:00 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2024-02-03 05:00 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 16:00 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-03 05:50 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-03 06:20 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 07:00 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-03 13:30 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2024-02-03 13:40 +0100
          Re: what keyboard do you use? Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2024-02-03 15:50 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-03 06:50 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2024-02-05 17:50 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-02-03 08:40 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-03 15:50 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2024-02-03 14:50 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 15:20 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2024-02-03 17:20 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? Roger Price <debian@rogerprice.org> - 2024-02-03 18:40 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-04 12:20 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-02-04 22:30 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Henrik Morsing <henrik@morsing.cc> - 2024-02-05 12:40 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2024-02-05 13:30 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2024-02-05 16:20 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2024-02-06 00:20 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2024-02-06 01:50 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2024-02-05 17:50 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 22:30 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2024-02-05 23:30 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-06 05:30 +0100

Page 1 of 5  [1] 2 3 4 5  Next page →

#266903 — what keyboard do you use?

I bought a Dell desktop in 2019 and the keyboard just died :(

ssh in from another machine & do a 'sudo reboot now' and get an alert
about 'Keyboard not found.'  on power up.  The keyboard also doesn't
work in another machine so it's really & truly dead.

I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
which keyboard do you like and why?

I have a Logitech k740 attached to my Windows machine which is ok.
Not great but OK.
I found a spare Logitech k120 keyboard in the closet; its better than
nothing but too thick for regular use.
And the old Dell keyboard from the Windows machine - also too thick,
the keys are too cramped and lettering has worn off on about 1/4 of
the keys (which is why I got the Logitech 740)

Thanks
Lee

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#266904

On 2/2/24 20:25, Lee wrote:
> I bought a Dell desktop in 2019 and the keyboard just died :(
> 
> ssh in from another machine & do a 'sudo reboot now' and get an alert
> about 'Keyboard not found.'  on power up.  The keyboard also doesn't
> work in another machine so it's really & truly dead.
> 
> I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
> which keyboard do you like and why?
> 
> I have a Logitech k740 attached to my Windows machine which is ok.
> Not great but OK.
> I found a spare Logitech k120 keyboard in the closet; its better than
> nothing but too thick for regular use.
> And the old Dell keyboard from the Windows machine - also too thick,
> the keys are too cramped and lettering has worn off on about 1/4 of
> the keys (which is why I got the Logitech 740)
> 
> Thanks
> Lee
> 
> 

The one I like to use

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266907

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 8:42 PM Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com>
wrote:

> On 2/2/24 20:25, Lee wrote:
> > I bought a Dell desktop in 2019 and the keyboard just died :(
> >
> > ssh in from another machine & do a 'sudo reboot now' and get an alert
> > about 'Keyboard not found.'  on power up.  The keyboard also doesn't
> > work in another machine so it's really & truly dead.
> >
> > I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
> > which keyboard do you like and why?
>

I have a Nulea RT02 Ergonomic Keyboard. You can get one at Amazon for $45.
I like it alot! The two USB ports on the keyboard are handy.
.


> > I have a Logitech k740 attached to my Windows machine which is ok.
> > Not great but OK.
> > I found a spare Logitech k120 keyboard in the closet; its better than
> > nothing but too thick for regular use.
> > And the old Dell keyboard from the Windows machine - also too thick,
> > the keys are too cramped and lettering has worn off on about 1/4 of
> > the keys (which is why I got the Logitech 740)
> >
> > Thanks
> > Lee
> >
> >
>
> The one I like to use
>
>
>

-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266905

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256


On Friday, February 2nd, 2024 at 6:25 PM, Lee <ler762@gmail.com> wrote:

> I bought a Dell desktop in 2019 and the keyboard just died :(https://www.google.com/search?q=map+of+the+USA+in+1845&safe=active&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=635&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQ-9bvs93RAhXJ7YMKHXzWDkIQsAQIGw#safe=active&tbm=isch&q=map+of+the+USA+in+1848&imgrc=GUh1lSV_dYk9KM%3A
> 
> I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
> which keyboard do you like and why?

Cherry (available at Amazon).  I've used them for a 25 or 30 years, and I've never had one fail.  Or even think about it.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: ProtonMail

wsBzBAEBCAAnBYJlvZweCZCf14YxgqyMMhYhBCyicw9CUnAlY0ANl5/XhjGC
rIwyAAAd2wf/QfaIRxAdnTe4fRCmnTJ+hFbtkwrQc3CkduMM3XUgbrSd3IaF
9RvSu/47exSI0S/zXkb0CVXWBkz4g9U3pFjYnhoCEF3Yl73IaWNVW/RuJe4h
0s4rt8UiM/oL278xMsCEXOqCDwK/chm3GRuKTpGVAHi2fCCHRGByabnyPVfy
YB26b5u5LOndk+R+8uCIIiuMHAyTqpLbe8L++bFdnVfjcW/MUim/ewUmLTDK
qrMWo0a5+dXqwRIocituXDnaDkYHTVneaUcFXvictlz7Oyv5ahtrkTKISiGV
EXwcN89HWd1rMijHLxEITEBIbQuiz71o2rqPWYzGJBTpPWWg1zCw3Q==
=Tcor
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266906

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

* On 2024 02 Feb 19:26 -0600, Lee wrote:
> I bought a Dell desktop in 2019 and the keyboard just died :(
> 
> ssh in from another machine & do a 'sudo reboot now' and get an alert
> about 'Keyboard not found.'  on power up.  The keyboard also doesn't
> work in another machine so it's really & truly dead.
> 
> I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
> which keyboard do you like and why?

I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
adapter so I gave up on them.  The Lenovo KU-0225 is a good keyboard
with the "standard" extra keys that are useful in some desktops.  It is
full size and quiet.

My main keyboard is a daskeyboard I bought several years ago with the
Cherry key switches  It is thick so you might not like it and it is
loud.  It has the same number of keys as the Lenovo, 104, I think.  This
one was not cheap while the Lenovo was considerably less expensive.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266919

Am Fri, 2 Feb 2024 20:09:09 -0600
schrieb Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us>:

> I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
> the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
> adapter so I gave up on them.

They need more power that normal keyboards, so not every converter
works.

I have a mainboard from 2019 wit PS/2 and the model M works fine.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266926

On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 9:09 PM Nate Bargmann wrote:
>
> * On 2024 02 Feb 19:26 -0600, Lee wrote:
> > I bought a Dell desktop in 2019 and the keyboard just died :(
> >
> > ssh in from another machine & do a 'sudo reboot now' and get an alert
> > about 'Keyboard not found.'  on power up.  The keyboard also doesn't
> > work in another machine so it's really & truly dead.
> >
> > I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
> > which keyboard do you like and why?
>
> I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
> the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
> adapter so I gave up on them.  The Lenovo KU-0225 is a good keyboard
> with the "standard" extra keys that are useful in some desktops.  It is
> full size and quiet.
>
> My main keyboard is a daskeyboard I bought several years ago with the
> Cherry key switches  It is thick so you might not like it and it is
> loud.  It has the same number of keys as the Lenovo, 104, I think.  This
> one was not cheap while the Lenovo was considerably less expensive.

Full size and quiet are good qualities :)  Tall not so much.. the
Logitech that I pulled out of the closet and think is too high is less
than 1 inch high.  The Lenovo is listed as 1.34 inches, so that's
probably not for me.
Thick and loud is  a no, so I'll pass on the daskeyboard.

Thanks
Lee

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266938

On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:09 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> [...]
> I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
> the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
> adapter so I gave up on them.

They might work with a so-called active adapter.  IIRC it has
something to do with the adpater suppling power.  With some research
and an investment of like $5, you can probably still use your
keyboards.

Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.

I'm using one right now (with 122 keys), and among all the different
keyboards I used over the last 40 years, I've never found anything
better than these buckling spring ones.


[1]: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266952

hw <hw@adminart.net> writes:

> On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:09 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>> [...]
>> I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
>> the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
>> adapter so I gave up on them.
>
> They might work with a so-called active adapter.  IIRC it has
> something to do with the adpater suppling power.  With some research
> and an investment of like $5, you can probably still use your
> keyboards.
>

Yes, I am using an IBM keyboard right now via usb into a laptop, with
this adapter:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07FLD3T8T

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266954

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

* On 2024 04 Feb 04:23 -0600, hw wrote:
> On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:09 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > [...]
> > I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
> > the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
> > adapter so I gave up on them.
> 
> They might work with a so-called active adapter.  IIRC it has
> something to do with the adpater suppling power.  With some research
> and an investment of like $5, you can probably still use your
> keyboards.

As I use GNOME, I need the left menu key as I have the hotspot disabled
to open the overview.  My old Model Ms lack that key.

> Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.

I don't like their swapping of the right Alt and Menu keys unless the
keyboard can be configured to swap them back.  Otherwise, I would prefer
the right Menu key in that position be removed and that area given back
to the Space bar.  I don't find any documentation on their Web site
about that capability.

I do like about the Daskeyboard is that instead of being the right Menu
key that key is a Function key much like a laptop and it activates media
control keys on several of the function keys.  It's quite handy to raise
or lower the speaker volume when playing a video full screen.

> I'm using one right now (with 122 keys), and among all the different
> keyboards I used over the last 40 years, I've never found anything
> better than these buckling spring ones.

No question.  The M is the ultimate but unless someone can point me to a
document that shows swapping those two keys, I won't be buying.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266957

On 4 Feb 2024 11:36 -0600, from n0nb@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
>> Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.
> 
> I don't like their swapping of the right Alt and Menu keys unless the
> keyboard can be configured to swap them back.

The keyboard doesn't care what's printed on the key caps; that should
be purely a software configuration issue.

If you contact them and ask, they can probably tell you whether the
key caps are of identical size for the two keys you have in mind for
the particular keyboard configuration you're interested in, and thus
can be flipped physically. Past that I expect it involves some Xmodmap
trickery (or maybe treachery) to flip the mapping of the scan codes.

-- 
Michael Kjörling                     🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266958

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

* On 2024 04 Feb 11:57 -0600, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 4 Feb 2024 11:36 -0600, from n0nb@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> >> Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.
> > 
> > I don't like their swapping of the right Alt and Menu keys unless the
> > keyboard can be configured to swap them back.
> 
> The keyboard doesn't care what's printed on the key caps; that should
> be purely a software configuration issue.
> 
> If you contact them and ask, they can probably tell you whether the
> key caps are of identical size for the two keys you have in mind for
> the particular keyboard configuration you're interested in, and thus
> can be flipped physically. Past that I expect it involves some Xmodmap
> trickery (or maybe treachery) to flip the mapping of the scan codes.

xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.  Maybe this
combination has a way to remap keys but that's not something I've been
inclined to do.  The daskeyboard suits me fine and I plan to just stick
with it.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266959

On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n0nb@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.

Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
localization experience.

If you're happy with your current keyboard, great.

-- 
Michael Kjörling                     🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266979

On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +0000, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n0nb@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> > xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.
> 
> Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
> surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
> to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
> because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
> layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
> localization experience.

We are stuck with it :(  Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.

With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
German layout.

It's one of these basic things we shouldn't need to have any trouble
at all with, and it really pisses me off.

All the developers are proabably Americans and never come across this
problem.  Why else won't they let us change the keyobard layout as we
need to.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266987

hw <hw@adminart.net> writes:

> On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +0000, Michael Kjörling wrote:
>> On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n0nb@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
>> > xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.
>> 
>> Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
>> surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
>> to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
>> because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
>> layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
>> localization experience.
>
> We are stuck with it :(  Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.
>
> With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
> wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
> which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
> German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
> able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
> German layout.

Maybe I have misunderstood the problem, but I use Gnome with Wayland and
regularly switch between US and German layouts.  I just added the German
layout in the 'Keyboard' section of Gnome's Settings and switch with the
default shortcut of 'Super + space'.

> It's one of these basic things we shouldn't need to have any trouble
> at all with, and it really pisses me off.
>
> All the developers are proabably Americans and never come across this
> problem.  Why else won't they let us change the keyobard layout as we
> need to.

-- 
This signature is currently under constuction.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266998 — How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 15:26 +0100, Loris Bennett wrote:
> hw <hw@adminart.net> writes:
> 
> > On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +0000, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> > > On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n0nb@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> > > > xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.
> > > 
> > > Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
> > > surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
> > > to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
> > > because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
> > > layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
> > > localization experience.
> > 
> > We are stuck with it :(  Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.
> > 
> > With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
> > wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
> > which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
> > German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
> > able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
> > German layout.
> 
> Maybe I have misunderstood the problem, but I use Gnome with Wayland and
> regularly switch between US and German layouts.  I just added the German
> layout in the 'Keyboard' section of Gnome's Settings and switch with the
> default shortcut of 'Super + space'.

Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard layout?

We can only pick or add another of the available layouts, but we can't
change them.  If I were using a German keyboard, I could pick a German
layout, and it would be a good starting point --- but I still won't be
able to change the layout.  Some characters on a German keyboard (and
layout) are placed very badly, and I need to change some of them for
the keyboard to be usable.

And try to figure out how to press ^] on a German keyboard, for
example, like telnet used to tell you.  It's no problem at all with an
US keyboard without any modification.  With a German keyboard, you
have to press something like AltGr+Shift+Strg+] ...  It took me like
30 years or so before I managed.  And what the hell is 'Strg' supposed
to mean?

So how do we change keyboard layouts when using wayland?  Why is there
no way to do that in gnome settings (or KDEs equivalent) like there
should be?

Picking from/adding a bunch of available keyboard layouts is an
entirely obsolete feature.  I never need that.  I only need to be able
to change the keyboard layout after picking one once in the installer.

In case I switch to a different keyboard which I might do every so
many years when I feel like doing that, I also need to change it for
the console in the first place.  How that is done changes like all the
time, and when it's not right, the keyboard won't work right,
especially in that the function keys to switch between consoles don't
work[1].  So that's a big issue right there --- and then I need to be
able to change the keyboard layout in wayland sessions unless I use an
US keyboard.  But I only have one of those.

It's certainly a good feature for the 7 people who keep between
switching different keyboard layouts and/or keyboards frequently.  But
the relevant feature everyone needs is now entirely missing.


[1]: Maybe that changed with wayland; I haven't tried yet.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#266999 — Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 21:06 +0100, hw wrote:
> And what the hell is 'Strg' supposed to mean?

"Strg" is short for "Steuerung", just the literal translation of 
"control".

/ralph

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#267000 — Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

On Mon 05 Feb 2024 at 21:06:30 (+0100), hw wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 15:26 +0100, Loris Bennett wrote:
> > hw <hw@adminart.net> writes:
> > > On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +0000, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> > > > On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n0nb@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> > > > > xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.
> > > > 
> > > > Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
> > > > surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
> > > > to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
> > > > because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
> > > > layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
> > > > localization experience.
> > > 
> > > We are stuck with it :(  Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.
> > > 
> > > With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
> > > wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
> > > which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
> > > German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
> > > able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
> > > German layout.
> > 
> > Maybe I have misunderstood the problem, but I use Gnome with Wayland and
> > regularly switch between US and German layouts.  I just added the German
> > layout in the 'Keyboard' section of Gnome's Settings and switch with the
> > default shortcut of 'Super + space'.
> 
> Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard layout?
> 
> We can only pick or add another of the available layouts, but we can't
> change them.  If I were using a German keyboard, I could pick a German
> layout, and it would be a good starting point --- but I still won't be
> able to change the layout.  Some characters on a German keyboard (and
> layout) are placed very badly, and I need to change some of them for
> the keyboard to be usable.
> 
> And try to figure out how to press ^] on a German keyboard, for
> example, like telnet used to tell you.  It's no problem at all with an
> US keyboard without any modification.  With a German keyboard, you
> have to press something like AltGr+Shift+Strg+] ...  It took me like
> 30 years or so before I managed.  And what the hell is 'Strg' supposed
> to mean?

Control.

> So how do we change keyboard layouts when using wayland?  Why is there
> no way to do that in gnome settings (or KDEs equivalent) like there
> should be?
> 
> Picking from/adding a bunch of available keyboard layouts is an
> entirely obsolete feature.  I never need that.  I only need to be able
> to change the keyboard layout after picking one once in the installer.
> 
> In case I switch to a different keyboard which I might do every so
> many years when I feel like doing that, I also need to change it for
> the console in the first place.  How that is done changes like all the
> time, and when it's not right, the keyboard won't work right,
> especially in that the function keys to switch between consoles don't
> work[1].  So that's a big issue right there --- and then I need to be
> able to change the keyboard layout in wayland sessions unless I use an
> US keyboard.  But I only have one of those.
> 
> It's certainly a good feature for the 7 people who keep between
> switching different keyboard layouts and/or keyboards frequently.  But
> the relevant feature everyone needs is now entirely missing.
> 
> [1]: Maybe that changed with wayland; I haven't tried yet.

 "The German layout differs from the English (US and UK) layouts in
  four major ways:

    The positions of the "Z" and "Y" keys are switched. In English,
    the letter "y" is very common and the letter "z" is relatively
    rare, whereas in German the letter "z" is very common and the
    letter "y" is very uncommon.[1] The German layout places "z" in a
    position where it can be struck by the index finger, rather than
    by the weaker little finger.

    Part of the keyboard is adapted to include umlauted vowels (ä, ö,
    ü) and the sharp s (ß). (Some newer types of German keyboards
    offer the fixed assignment Alt+++H → ẞ for its capitalized
    version.)

    Some of special key inscriptions are changed to a graphical symbol
    (e.g. ⇪ Caps Lock is an upward arrow, ← Backspace a leftward
    arrow). Most of the other abbreviations are replaced by German
    abbreviations (thus e.g. "Ctrl" is translated to its German
    equivalent "Strg", for Steuerung). "Esc" remains as such. (See:
    "Key labels" below)

    Like many other non-American keyboards, German keyboards change
    the right Alt key into an Alt Gr key to access a third level of
    key assignments. This is necessary because the umlauts and some
    other special characters leave no room to have all the special
    symbols of ASCII, needed by programmers among others, available on
    the first or second (shifted) levels without unduly increasing the
    size of the keyboard."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout

Cheers,
David.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#267010 — Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 14:34 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> [...]
>  "The German layout differs from the English (US and UK) layouts in
>   four major ways:

It's missing out on yet another major way: Umlaute.

The Umlaute take whole keys for themselves like other letters, and
since there aren't any more keys on the keyboard, they replace other
characters which contributes to the German keyboard layout being
rather awkward and difficult to use.  Whoever created it has
completely overlooked that computers aren't typewriters.

And it's very bad not to have a right Alt key.  That also has
consequences that make things worse.

> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#267053 — Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

hw <hw@adminart.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 14:34 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > [...]
> >  "The German layout differs from the English (US and UK) layouts in
> >   four major ways:  
> 
> It's missing out on yet another major way: Umlaute.

If you reread the wikipedia page, you'll see that umlaut keys are
mentioned as the second of the four ways.

> The Umlaute take whole keys for themselves like other letters, and
> since there aren't any more keys on the keyboard, they replace other
> characters which contributes to the German keyboard layout being
> rather awkward and difficult to use.  Whoever created it has
> completely overlooked that computers aren't typewriters.
> 
> And it's very bad not to have a right Alt key.  That also has
> consequences that make things worse.
> 
> > 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout  
> 
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 5  [1] 2 3 4 5  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web