How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)

From	hw <hw@adminart.net>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)
Date	2024-02-05 21:10 +0100
Message-ID	<I4drX-883T-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 15:26 +0100, Loris Bennett wrote:
> hw <hw@adminart.net> writes:
> 
> > On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +0000, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> > > On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n0nb@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> > > > xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.
> > > 
> > > Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
> > > surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
> > > to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
> > > because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
> > > layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
> > > localization experience.
> > 
> > We are stuck with it :(  Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.
> > 
> > With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed.  With
> > wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
> > which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
> > German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
> > able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
> > German layout.
> 
> Maybe I have misunderstood the problem, but I use Gnome with Wayland and
> regularly switch between US and German layouts.  I just added the German
> layout in the 'Keyboard' section of Gnome's Settings and switch with the
> default shortcut of 'Super + space'.

Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard layout?

We can only pick or add another of the available layouts, but we can't
change them.  If I were using a German keyboard, I could pick a German
layout, and it would be a good starting point --- but I still won't be
able to change the layout.  Some characters on a German keyboard (and
layout) are placed very badly, and I need to change some of them for
the keyboard to be usable.

And try to figure out how to press ^] on a German keyboard, for
example, like telnet used to tell you.  It's no problem at all with an
US keyboard without any modification.  With a German keyboard, you
have to press something like AltGr+Shift+Strg+] ...  It took me like
30 years or so before I managed.  And what the hell is 'Strg' supposed
to mean?

So how do we change keyboard layouts when using wayland?  Why is there
no way to do that in gnome settings (or KDEs equivalent) like there
should be?

Picking from/adding a bunch of available keyboard layouts is an
entirely obsolete feature.  I never need that.  I only need to be able
to change the keyboard layout after picking one once in the installer.

In case I switch to a different keyboard which I might do every so
many years when I feel like doing that, I also need to change it for
the console in the first place.  How that is done changes like all the
time, and when it's not right, the keyboard won't work right,
especially in that the function keys to switch between consoles don't
work[1].  So that's a big issue right there --- and then I need to be
able to change the keyboard layout in wayland sessions unless I use an
US keyboard.  But I only have one of those.

It's certainly a good feature for the 7 people who keep between
switching different keyboard layouts and/or keyboards frequently.  But
the relevant feature everyone needs is now entirely missing.

[1]: Maybe that changed with wayland; I haven't tried yet.

Thread

what keyboard do you use? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 02:30 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com> - 2024-02-03 02:50 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Timothy M Butterworth <timothy.m.butterworth@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 04:00 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2024-02-03 03:00 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2024-02-03 03:10 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-02-03 08:40 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 15:40 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-04 11:30 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2024-02-04 17:30 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2024-02-04 18:40 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-04 19:00 +0100
          Re: what keyboard do you use? Nate Bargmann <n0nb@n0nb.us> - 2024-02-04 19:10 +0100
            Re: what keyboard do you use? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-04 19:30 +0100
              Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 12:40 +0100
                Re: what keyboard do you use? "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2024-02-05 15:50 +0100
                How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you  use?) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 21:10 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2024-02-05 21:40 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-05 21:40 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 23:50 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-02-06 12:30 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 15:10 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-05 22:10 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 00:20 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-06 05:30 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-06 05:50 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-06 06:30 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-06 06:40 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-06 15:20 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 11:30 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-07 04:50 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-07 07:00 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-07 13:20 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2024-02-07 14:40 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-13 08:20 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-21 20:00 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-21 23:20 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-26 04:30 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-06 10:20 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 11:40 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-06 11:50 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-02-06 04:20 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) Brian Sammon <debian-users-list@brisammon.fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-06 07:40 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-02-06 13:10 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do  you use?) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 14:00 +0100
                solved: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard  do you use?) hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 16:00 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? "Loris Bennett" <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> - 2024-02-06 11:20 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-06 12:00 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 12:50 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2024-02-06 13:30 +0100
                Of German keycap translations [was: How can we change the keyboard  layout?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-06 13:40 +0100
                Re: Of German keycap translations [was: How can we change the  keyboard layout?] hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 14:50 +0100
                Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 14:40 +0100
                [OT] (I guess) Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? Michael Lange <klappnase@t-online.de> - 2024-02-07 00:00 +0100
                Re: what keyboard do you use? Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-02-06 05:20 +0100
                Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 12:10 +0100
                Re: what keyboard do you use? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-06 13:20 +0100
          Re: what keyboard do you use? "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2024-02-05 18:10 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 12:30 +0100
          Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-05 15:10 +0100
            Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 21:50 +0100
              On graphical environments [was: what keyboard do you use?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-06 06:40 +0100
                Re: On graphical environments [was: what keyboard do you use?] hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-06 15:00 +0100
                Re: On graphical environments [was: what keyboard do you use?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-06 15:10 +0100
              Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-06 15:10 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-04 18:40 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 12:10 +0100
          Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-05 15:10 +0100
            Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 20:40 +0100
              Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-06 15:10 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2024-02-03 05:00 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2024-02-03 05:00 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 16:00 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-03 05:50 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-03 06:20 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 07:00 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2024-02-03 13:30 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2024-02-03 13:40 +0100
        Re: what keyboard do you use? Jörg-Volker Peetz <jvpeetz@web.de> - 2024-02-03 15:50 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-03 06:50 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2024-02-05 17:50 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-02-03 08:40 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d63c@ewoof.net> - 2024-02-03 15:50 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> - 2024-02-03 14:50 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 15:20 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2024-02-03 17:20 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Roger Price <debian@rogerprice.org> - 2024-02-03 18:40 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-04 12:20 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-02-04 22:30 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Henrik Morsing <henrik@morsing.cc> - 2024-02-05 12:40 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2024-02-05 13:30 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2024-02-05 16:20 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2024-02-06 00:20 +0100
      Re: what keyboard do you use? Peter Ehlert <pb21a@sdi-baja.com> - 2024-02-06 01:50 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2024-02-05 17:50 +0100
    Re: what keyboard do you use? hw <hw@adminart.net> - 2024-02-05 22:30 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2024-02-05 23:30 +0100
  Re: what keyboard do you use? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-06 05:30 +0100

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