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Groups > linux.debian.user > #263081 > unrolled thread
| Started by | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2023-11-03 17:30 +0100 |
| Last post | 2023-11-09 17:50 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 80 — 23 participants |
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How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-03 17:30 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-03 17:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-03 18:10 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-03 22:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 01:00 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-04 01:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-11-03 23:20 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 01:10 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 12:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-04 14:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 18:30 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-11-04 19:40 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-11-04 21:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-04 22:40 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 23:30 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 00:40 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? yxcv@vienna.at - 2023-11-05 01:10 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-05 02:00 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 04:20 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-05 05:10 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 07:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-05 10:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 11:30 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-05 16:30 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-05 09:10 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 21:20 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-11-05 21:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 23:30 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-05 23:20 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-05 23:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-06 08:40 +0100
xorriso and SIGTERM/SIGINT handler (was: Re: How to use dmsetuup?) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2023-11-06 05:30 +0100
Re: xorriso and SIGTERM/SIGINT handler "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2023-11-06 09:00 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 23:10 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-11-04 10:40 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-04 13:30 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? Franco Martelli <martellif67@gmail.com> - 2023-11-06 16:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-06 17:30 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2023-11-08 00:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-08 01:30 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-08 06:10 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-08 06:40 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-08 11:30 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-11-08 19:10 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> - 2023-11-08 23:00 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2023-11-09 02:10 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-11 01:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-11 04:30 +0100
Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-11-11 18:00 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-11 18:10 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-11-11 18:40 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-11 19:50 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> - 2023-11-11 21:50 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-11-11 22:40 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-11 22:10 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-11-12 00:30 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2023-11-12 00:40 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] fxkl47BF@protonmail.com - 2023-11-11 18:30 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-12 01:10 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-12 05:40 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2023-11-13 11:40 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-13 14:00 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-11-12 14:20 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-12 19:40 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-11-12 18:20 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2023-11-12 20:30 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-12 21:20 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-13 06:40 +0100
Linux supprt (was: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?]) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-13 13:50 +0100
Re: Linux supprt (was: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?]) Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2023-11-13 16:00 +0100
Re: Linux supprt Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2023-11-13 16:40 +0100
Re: Linux supprt Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2023-11-13 22:50 +0100
Re: Linux supprt John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2023-11-13 19:00 +0100
Re: Linux supprt <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-13 19:40 +0100
Re: Linux supprt Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2023-11-14 18:40 +0100
Re: Linux supprt <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-11-14 18:50 +0100
Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2023-11-13 15:10 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2023-11-09 01:50 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-11-09 16:20 +0100
Re: How to use dmsetuup? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-11-09 17:50 +0100
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| From | David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-08 06:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HxIZb-3Wjb-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263243 |
On 11/7/23 16:19, gene heskett wrote: > On 11/7/23 18:42, Tom Dial wrote: >>> On 03/11/23 at 17:27, gene heskett wrote: >>>> I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, >>>> allocated as sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as >>>> lvm1 and lvm2. >>>> Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2 >>>> >>>> How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of >>>> these to make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, >>>> then switch fstab to mount it as /home on a reboot? >> >> You do not put a file system on the partitions you are using as LVM >> physical volumes. And you do not mount them. >> > What do I do if a gpt partition table has already been made and an ext4 > system is already installed? IOW just how "bare" a disk is needed? Is > writing a null gpt sufficient? For software disk management (md, LVM, ZFS, etc.), whether to use entire disks or to use partitions is a matter of preference. Some people like to use entire disks to skip layers of drivers (e.g. minimum latency, minimum memory), to obtain 100% of the available blocks, etc.. Other people like to use partitions to apply meaningful labels to the partitions, to choose a somewhat smaller size to accommodate disks with different numbers of blocks (important when replacing a failing drive), etc.. For a mirror of two identical disk drives, I chose md RAID1 and entire disks in 2017. KISS. I think that would work for you now. You will not need the ext4 file systems. Whether you choose partitions or entire disks, it is good to zero-fill them prior to giving them to your disk management software. But, zero-filling disks and partitions is dangerous due to the risk of operator error. I use a spare computer with no drives other than the drive in question. I boot d-i, Debian live, a personal live USB stick, etc., and do the work. If I make a mistake, I will not trash a production computer. David
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-08 06:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HxJsd-3Wxu-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263243 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Tue, Nov 07, 2023 at 07:19:40PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: [...] > What do I do if a gpt partition table has already been made and an ext4 > system is already installed? IOW just how "bare" a disk is needed? Is > writing a null gpt sufficient? Hm. I may have missed something, but I've got the impression we are a second round through this: you just slap the LVM infrastructure over current data, it will overwrite what it needs to and mark the rest as free space. It just replaces what was before on disk. It /might/ warn you that you're about overwriting potentially valuable data, I don't remember. Unless, of course, the data is sensitive: in that case you want to zero (or better: random) it. Cheers -- t
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-08 11:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HxNYR-3Zvl-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263248 |
On 11/8/23 00:34, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Tue, Nov 07, 2023 at 07:19:40PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > [...] > >> What do I do if a gpt partition table has already been made and an ext4 >> system is already installed? IOW just how "bare" a disk is needed? Is >> writing a null gpt sufficient? > > Hm. I may have missed something, but I've got the impression we are a > second round through this: you just slap the LVM infrastructure over > current data, it will overwrite what it needs to and mark the rest as > free space. It just replaces what was before on disk. > Sounds good. However I may go a different route. I have a not installed 2T WD-Black SN770 NVMe SSD, format 2280. This Asus prime z370-A II modo has two M2 sockets which the docs say both can use a 2280, but they operate differently w/o really explaining the difference. The one in the middle of the board, the A socket 2_2 looks like I have to pull the CPU and its radiator to be able to really get to it, and actually only shows how to install in the lower 2_1 socket which also has a heat sinking cover that must be removed & reinstalled. Is this then the preferred location, or is there an advantage to the other socket nearer the CPU?. > It /might/ warn you that you're about overwriting potentially valuable > data, I don't remember. But before I do yet another reinstall, 24th or so. two of the sata 2t's are installed, and I'm tempted to rsych the raid to one of them to see if reassigning /home to a copy of /home does away with this horrible lag I'm wanting to blame on the raid10. > > Unless, of course, the data is sensitive: in that case you want to zero > (or better: random) it. > > Cheers Thank you. They are empty except for the ext4 install and if pvcreate just slams the new format regardless, I'll rsync the 2T /home back to the raid10, and unplug that controller before I put the install dvd in. I also have another sata controller, this one with all 16 ports installed. And I just looked at tht pair, and acc gparted they have both been pvcreated, so I'll leave then alone and steal the dvd cable, puttin a new 2T drive if I can rig power to it. This mobo also claims to be able to do the intel version of a raid on its own sata ports. Does anyone here have experience doing that? Thanks Tomas Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-08 19:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HxVa1-43TJ-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263253 |
On Wed, Nov 08, 2023 at 05:20:47AM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On 11/8/23 00:34, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 07, 2023 at 07:19:40PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: <snip> > > > Sounds good. > However I may go a different route. I have a not installed 2T WD-Black SN770 > NVMe SSD, format 2280. This Asus prime z370-A II modo has two M2 sockets > which the docs say both can use a 2280, but they operate differently w/o > really explaining the difference. The one in the middle of the board, the A > socket 2_2 looks like I have to pull the CPU and its radiator to be able to > really get to it, and actually only shows how to install in the lower 2_1 > socket which also has a heat sinking cover that must be removed & > reinstalled. Is this then the preferred location, or is there an advantage > to the other socket nearer the CPU?. > Double check - sometimes one socket may be intended primarily for "other" M2 devices. There shouldn't be any particular difference between the two - one is obviously easier to reach than the other. Occasionally, having two may mean that they run slightly slower. > They are empty except for the ext4 install and if pvcreate just slams the > new format regardless, I'll rsync the 2T /home back to the raid10, and > unplug that controller before I put the install dvd in. I also have another > sata controller, this one with all 16 ports installed. > It might be sensible to think about rebuilding the machine to use _one_ controller. If the 16 port controller has a JBOD mode, use that and use mdadm. Splitting between some MB SATA ports, some on a card may not be efficient. [JBOD == "just a bunch of disks" == no RAID intelligence applied by the card itself] > And I just looked at tht pair, and acc gparted they have both been > pvcreated, so I'll leave then alone and steal the dvd cable, puttin a new 2T > drive if I can rig power to it. > This mobo also claims to be able to do the intel version of a raid on its > own sata ports. Does anyone here have experience doing that? "Motherboard RAID" is not portable - mdadm is at least as efficient. On the one machine I have that has "motherboard RAID", it's effectively something like mdadm but writes some signature to the disk that means it can only be read by that software. A "proper" RAID controller has large amounts of RAM, battery backup - they generally cost $$$ > > Thanks Tomas > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > -- All the very best, as ever, Andy [amacater@debian.org] > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. > - Louis D. Brandeis >
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| From | jeremy ardley <jeremy.ardley@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-08 23:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HxYKB-46dj-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263264 |
On 9/11/23 02:02, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > Double check - sometimes one socket may be intended primarily for "other" > M2 devices. There shouldn't be any particular difference > between the two - one is obviously easier to reach than the other. > Occasionally, having two may mean that they run slightly slower. I don't know about that model, but my ASUS Prime B550M-A has 2x M.2 PCIE sockets. One runs PCIE 4.0 the other PCIE 3.0 So a significant speed difference. Other boards, mainly SBC, have additional M.2 sockets for short devices such as WiFi
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| From | Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-09 02:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Hy1It-489l-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263253 |
On 11/8/23 03:20, gene heskett wrote: > On 11/8/23 00:34, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 07, 2023 at 07:19:40PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>> What do I do if a gpt partition table has already been made and an ext4 >>> system is already installed? IOW just how "bare" a disk is needed? Is >>> writing a null gpt sufficient? >> >> Hm. I may have missed something, but I've got the impression we are a >> second round through this: you just slap the LVM infrastructure over >> current data, it will overwrite what it needs to and mark the rest as >> free space. It just replaces what was before on disk. >> > Sounds good. > However I may go a different route. I have a not installed 2T WD-Black SN770 NVMe SSD, format 2280. This Asus prime z370-A II modo has two M2 sockets which the docs say both can use a 2280, but they operate differently w/o really explaining the difference. The one in the middle of the board, the A socket 2_2 looks like I have to pull the CPU and its radiator to be able to really get to it, and actually only shows how to install in the lower 2_1 socket which also has a heat sinking cover that must be removed & reinstalled. Is this then the preferred location, or is there an advantage to the other socket nearer the CPU?. This is a different question entirely. > >> It /might/ warn you that you're about overwriting potentially valuable >> data, I don't remember. By my recollection, LVM operations DO NOT WARN. I might be wrong, but don't recommend the alternative. Use with care. > > But before I do yet another reinstall, 24th or so. two of the sata 2t's are installed, and I'm tempted to rsych the raid to one of them to see if reassigning /home to a copy of /home does away with this horrible lag I'm wanting to blame on the raid10. >> >> Unless, of course, the data is sensitive: in that case you want to zero >> (or better: random) it. >> >> Cheers > > Thank you. > > They are empty except for the ext4 install and if pvcreate just slams the new format regardless, I'll rsync the 2T /home back to the raid10, and unplug that controller before I put the install dvd in. I also have another sata controller, this one with all 16 ports installed.> > And I just looked at tht pair, and acc gparted they have both been pvcreated, so I'll leave then alone and steal the dvd cable, puttin a new 2T drive if I can rig power to it. > This mobo also claims to be able to do the intel version of a raid on its own sata ports. Does anyone here have experience doing that? Mixing hardware RAID with either LVM (or ZFS) has no benefit that I know of. ZFS guidance recommends against it. I suggest picking any one method to create your /home, carrying it through, and if you don't like the result, redo it with another. I've used LVM for more than 25 years on HP-UX and Linux with good results. I switched a few years back to ZFS for new installs, also with good results. Both are reliable, expandable, and easy to manage, albeit with learning curves. I haven't used hardware raid because the software ones are quite good enough, and they also have their learning curve. Regards, Tom > > Thanks Tomas > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
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| From | David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-11 01:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HyKmd-4yIl-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263253 |
On 11/8/23 02:20, gene heskett wrote: > But before I do yet another reinstall, 24th or so. two of the sata 2t's > are installed, and I'm tempted to rsych the raid to one of them to see > if reassigning /home to a copy of /home does away with this horrible lag > I'm wanting to blame on the raid10. Testing your applications for file system issues using a single non-RAID device with one partition and an ext4 file system is a good trouble-shooting technique. But, see my next comment. > They are empty except for the ext4 install and if pvcreate just slams > the new format regardless, I'll rsync the 2T /home back to the raid10, > and unplug that controller before I put the install dvd in. I also have > another sata controller, this one with all 16 ports installed. > > And I just looked at tht pair, and acc gparted they have both been > pvcreated, so I'll leave then alone and steal the dvd cable, puttin a > new 2T drive if I can rig power to it. As I previously suggested, and as you previously seemed agreeable to, I think you should stop working on the Asus and build a backup server. Good disaster preparedness expedites system operations, maintenance, and change -- because you can take risky steps and recover if those steps fail. > This mobo also claims to be able to do the intel version of a raid on > its own sata ports. Does anyone here have experience doing that? Yes, but I prefer software RAID -- because I can move the disks to another computer with different hardware and the arrays will still work. Hardware RAID typically requires compatible hardware. David
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-11 04:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <HyMR3-4Ajl-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263347 |
On 11/10/23 19:46, David Christensen wrote: > On 11/8/23 02:20, gene heskett wrote: >> But before I do yet another reinstall, 24th or so. two of the sata >> 2t's are installed, and I'm tempted to rsych the raid to one of them >> to see if reassigning /home to a copy of /home does away with this >> horrible lag I'm wanting to blame on the raid10. > > > Testing your applications for file system issues using a single non-RAID > device with one partition and an ext4 file system is a good > trouble-shooting technique. But, see my next comment. > > >> They are empty except for the ext4 install and if pvcreate just slams >> the new format regardless, I'll rsync the 2T /home back to the raid10, >> and unplug that controller before I put the install dvd in. I also >> have another sata controller, this one with all 16 ports installed. >> >> And I just looked at tht pair, and acc gparted they have both been >> pvcreated, so I'll leave then alone and steal the dvd cable, puttin a >> new 2T drive if I can rig power to it. > > > As I previously suggested, and as you previously seemed agreeable to, I > think you should stop working on the Asus and build a backup server. > I'm thinking of making a slow one out of a headless bananapi-5 with a 2T on every usb3 port as a raid, type to be determined, I rather like the idea of parity being striped across all 4 disks. I have the drives but not sure of the usb-sata adapters, need to goto the garage and retrieve that box. That, and there's only one of me ;o)> And me is 89 yo with a worn out body. A pacemaker and some new parts in my heart too. Startech adapters are working very well to a pair of smaller SSD's on the rpi4b that runs my old (80+) Sheldon 11"x54" lathe, teaching it new tricks it never dreamed of doing 80+ years ago. Metric or imperial, it doesn't care. Even cuts threads I've invented. I have a complete linuxcnc buildbot on that pi. The latest bpi runs at 2 gigahertz which is about twice as fast as the pi's. Thanks for the advice, ATM I'm trying to bring a big new 80 lb 3d printer to life. If it works well I might throw some more sheckles into a farm of them. > > Good disaster preparedness expedites system operations, maintenance, and > change -- because you can take risky steps and recover if those steps fail. > > >> This mobo also claims to be able to do the intel version of a raid on >> its own sata ports. Does anyone here have experience doing that? > > > Yes, but I prefer software RAID -- because I can move the disks to > another computer with different hardware and the arrays will still work. > Hardware RAID typically requires compatible hardware. > > > David > > . Understood before hand. Thanks David, take care & stay well. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-11 18:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <HyZuW-4HZm-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263351 |
On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 10:22:07PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On 11/10/23 19:46, David Christensen wrote: > > On 11/8/23 02:20, gene heskett wrote: > > > And I just looked at tht pair, and acc gparted they have both been > > > pvcreated, so I'll leave then alone and steal the dvd cable, puttin > > > a new 2T drive if I can rig power to it. > > > > > > As I previously suggested, and as you previously seemed agreeable to, I > > think you should stop working on the Asus and build a backup server. > > > I'm thinking of making a slow one out of a headless bananapi-5 with a 2T on > every usb3 port as a raid, type to be determined, I rather like the idea of > parity being striped across all 4 disks. I have the drives but not sure of > the usb-sata adapters, need to goto the garage and retrieve that box. That, > and there's only one of me ;o)> And me is 89 yo with a worn out body. A > pacemaker and some new parts in my heart too. > Gene, Are these 2TB SSDs or hard disks? I would counsel very strongly indeed against using any ARM-based single board computer as a RAID device on USB connections - they're just *not* up to it. Get a cheap barebones system that you add memory to in a small-ish size case with SATA cables to motherboard ports that's Intel/AMD based that you can then put disks into to format. If you can't get a barebones, at least get a second hand machine in a tower case. Build a simple Debian system on one disk there to format other disks :) Once you've built a simple Debian system there, you can add mdadm RAID and use it as a backup storage device to copy off your /home and so on. > Startech adapters are working very well to a pair of smaller SSD's on the > rpi4b that runs my old (80+) Sheldon 11"x54" lathe, teaching it new tricks > it never dreamed of doing 80+ years ago. Metric or imperial, it doesn't > care. Even cuts threads I've invented. I have a complete linuxcnc buildbot > on that pi. The latest bpi runs at 2 gigahertz which is about twice as fast > as the pi's. USB adapters will work well until you are _absolutely_ reliant on them, then there will be a problem in my experience :( > > > > This mobo also claims to be able to do the intel version of a raid > > > on its own sata ports. Does anyone here have experience doing that? > > > > > > Yes, but I prefer software RAID -- because I can move the disks to > > another computer with different hardware and the arrays will still work. > > Hardware RAID typically requires compatible hardware. > > Yes, absolutely agreed with David on this. > > > > David > > > > . > Understood before hand. Thanks David, take care & stay well. > All the very best, as ever, Andy [amacater@debian.org] > Cheers, Gene Heskett. > -- > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. > - Louis D. Brandeis >
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-11 18:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <HyZEB-4Iix-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263368 |
> Are these 2TB SSDs or hard disks? I would counsel very strongly indeed
> against using any ARM-based single board computer as a RAID device on
> USB connections - they're just *not* up to it.
I don't think the issue is whether they're ARM based.
The issue is simply how you connect the disks: in my experience, disks
connected via USB are simply not quite up to a 24/7 situation,
especially if the disk is USB-powered.
Stefan
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| From | Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-11 18:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <Hz07D-4Ira-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263369 |
On 11/11/23 12:05, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> Are these 2TB SSDs or hard disks? I would counsel very strongly indeed >> against using any ARM-based single board computer as a RAID device on >> USB connections - they're just *not* up to it. > I don't think the issue is whether they're ARM based. > > The issue is simply how you connect the disks: in my experience, disks > connected via USB are simply not quite up to a 24/7 situation, > especially if the disk is USB-powered. > > > Stefan I have used ssd drives connected to a RPI4 ever since the 4 came out, zero issues. The RPI4's boot from the ssd drives. I have 4 SSD drives connected to a single RPI4 currently, using a powered USB hub. One of those drives contains the boot and root filesystems. BTW that particular RPI4 runs 24/7 as it is my name server, email server, web server and backup server for my network. It has an uptime of 18 months. -- It's not easy to be me
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-11 19:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <Hz1dn-4J2a-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263371 |
> I have used ssd drives connected to a RPI4 ever since the 4 came out,
> zero issues.
> The RPI4's boot from the ssd drives.
> I have 4 SSD drives connected to a single RPI4 currently, using a powered
> USB hub.
Hmm... so maybe the USB connection is not directly relevant either and
the real issue is the power?
Stefan
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| From | Pocket <pocket@columbus.rr.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-11 21:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <Hz35v-4K7d-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263375 |
On 11/11/23 13:47, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> I have used ssd drives connected to a RPI4 ever since the 4 came out, >> zero issues. >> The RPI4's boot from the ssd drives. >> I have 4 SSD drives connected to a single RPI4 currently, using a powered >> USB hub. > Hmm... so maybe the USB connection is not directly relevant either and > the real issue is the power? > > > Stefan > That would be my best guess also -- It's not easy to be me
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-11 22:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <Hz3RT-4KBn-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263379 |
On 11/11/23 15:41, Pocket wrote: > > On 11/11/23 13:47, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> I have used ssd drives connected to a RPI4 ever since the 4 came out, >>> zero issues. >>> The RPI4's boot from the ssd drives. >>> I have 4 SSD drives connected to a single RPI4 currently, using a >>> powered >>> USB hub. >> Hmm... so maybe the USB connection is not directly relevant either and >> the real issue is the power? I'm forced to agree. The wall wart supplied with the pi kits is rather under powered. I don't run them on less than a 5 volt 5 amp supply, and like pocket, they only get rebooted when needsreboot says so after an update. In 7 or so years of running a Sheldon lathe built in the 1940's, first with an rpi3b which was pushed a bit and an rpi4b that doesn't even breath hard, for at last 4, maybe 5 years, I've had one unscheduled reboot. That I think is about 100x better uptime than I'm averaging running the same linuxcnc software on wintel stuff. That 5 volt, 5 amp supply is powering 5 other interfacing boards to get the job done. One of its jobs is running a clone of the linuxcnc.org buildbot. It Just Works... >> >> Stefan >> > That would be my best guess also > Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
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| From | Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-11 22:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <Hz3oR-4KsB-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263375 |
On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 1:48 PM Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote: > > > I have used ssd drives connected to a RPI4 ever since the 4 came out, > > zero issues. > > The RPI4's boot from the ssd drives. > > I have 4 SSD drives connected to a single RPI4 currently, using a powered > > USB hub. > > Hmm... so maybe the USB connection is not directly relevant either and > the real issue is the power? >From what I've read when comparing OpenMediaVault vs TrueNAS, it usually comes down to the power consumption of the mini computer/mini pc. 5W can save you $100 USD per year. Probably more now due to inflation. But the use cases they discuss often includes transcoding of video streams, which I don't think is needed in the case of backups. See, for example, <https://www.androidauthority.com/cheap-diy-nas-server-3348392/>. Related, I am getting ready to standup a NAS for my home network. (Currently I'm doing some half-ass file sharing). The enclosure hardware on the short list are <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CN4Z4PC/> and <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y3WDHLD>. The mini computer the enclosure will be attached to will be USB 3.1 or 3.2 capable for 10 GB/s or 20 GB/s throughput. Eventually my network will need to be upgraded to at least 2.5 GB/s to take advantage of the throughput. I'm waiting for prices to drop a bit. 2.5 GB/s and 5.0 GB/s network cards, switches and Cat 8 cables are still a bit expensive. Jeff
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| From | Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-12 00:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <Hz5Al-4LEf-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263382 |
On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 6:20 PM Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> wrote: > > Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > >From what I've read when comparing OpenMediaVault vs TrueNAS, it > > usually comes down to the power consumption of the mini computer/mini > > pc. 5W can save you $100 USD per year. Probably more now due to > > inflation. > > > 5W * 24h/D * 30 D/M * 12M/Y = 43200 Wh, or 43.2KWh per year > > If a KWh costs you: then 43.2KWh is: > Massachusetts: 32c $13.82 > California: 30c $12.96 > Florida: 15c $ 6.48 > Germany: 42c $18.14 > Denmark: 37c $15.98 > United Kingdom: 33c $14.26 > > So you need between 25 and 75W of 24/7 power usage to get to > $100 US of savings in a year. Right. Some can get into the 60W range, so you have to be careful about what is being selected. > A spinning disk draws about 7W. An SSD draws about 0.05W when > asleep, 1.5W in "active idle", and up to 8W during writes. Jeff
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| From | Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-12 00:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <Hz5Al-4LEf-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263382 |
Jeffrey Walton wrote: > >From what I've read when comparing OpenMediaVault vs TrueNAS, it > usually comes down to the power consumption of the mini computer/mini > pc. 5W can save you $100 USD per year. Probably more now due to > inflation. 5W * 24h/D * 30 D/M * 12M/Y = 43200 Wh, or 43.2KWh per year If a KWh costs you: then 43.2KWh is: Massachusetts: 32c $13.82 California: 30c $12.96 Florida: 15c $ 6.48 Germany: 42c $18.14 Denmark: 37c $15.98 United Kingdom: 33c $14.26 So you need between 25 and 75W of 24/7 power usage to get to $100 US of savings in a year. A spinning disk draws about 7W. An SSD draws about 0.05W when asleep, 1.5W in "active idle", and up to 8W during writes. -dsr-
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| From | fxkl47BF@protonmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-11 18:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <HyZXX-4Iok-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263368 |
just my two sense not advice or promotion i've used this device for about 2.5 years with 6tb harddrives in raid 1 i have partitions on the raid for the os, debian, and the rest for backups no problems so far https://ameridroid.com/products/odroid-hc4
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| From | David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-12 01:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <Hz6d3-4M5F-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263368 |
On 11/11/23 08:52, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 10:22:07PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: >> On 11/10/23 19:46, David Christensen wrote: >>> On 11/8/23 02:20, gene heskett wrote: >>>> And I just looked at tht pair, and acc gparted they have both been >>>> pvcreated, so I'll leave then alone and steal the dvd cable, puttin >>>> a new 2T drive if I can rig power to it. >>> >>> As I previously suggested, and as you previously seemed agreeable to, I >>> think you should stop working on the Asus and build a backup server. >> >> I'm thinking of making a slow one out of a headless bananapi-5 with a 2T on >> every usb3 port as a raid, type to be determined, I rather like the idea of >> parity being striped across all 4 disks. I have the drives but not sure of >> the usb-sata adapters, need to goto the garage and retrieve that box. That, >> and there's only one of me ;o)> And me is 89 yo with a worn out body. A >> pacemaker and some new parts in my heart too. > > Are these 2TB SSDs or hard disks? I would counsel very strongly indeed > against using any ARM-based single board computer as a RAID device on > USB connections - they're just *not* up to it. On 11/11/23 09:05, Stefan Monnier wrote: > I don't think the issue is whether they're ARM based. > > The issue is simply how you connect the disks: in my experience, disks > connected via USB are simply not quite up to a 24/7 situation, > especially if the disk is USB-powered. On 11/11/23 09:37, Pocket wrote: > I have used ssd drives connected to a RPI4 ever since the 4 came out, > zero issues. > > The RPI4's boot from the ssd drives. > > I have 4 SSD drives connected to a single RPI4 currently, using a > powered USB hub. > > One of those drives contains the boot and root filesystems. > > BTW that particular RPI4 runs 24/7 as it is my name server, email > server, web server and backup server for my network. > > It has an uptime of 18 months. On 11/11/23 10:47, Stefan Monnier wrote: > Hmm... so maybe the USB connection is not directly relevant either > and the real issue is the power? An obvious difference between internal and external drives is physical protection. Internal drives and cables are protected. Everything gets power from the same source (PSU, PCU fed by dual PSU, etc.). External drives, cables, and power adapters can be moved, yanked, disconnected, dropped, kicked, subjected to electrostatic discharge, etc.. There are more parts to fail and more opportunities for failure with external drives than with internal drives. It is not uncommon for communications establishment to fail with external drives. Similarly, communications re-establishment when the computer and/or drive resume from a power saving mode. Writing and testing this kind of software is difficult and you need people with both both CS and EE skills. There is an astronomical number of combinations to design and test for. The code runs rarely. For reliable 24x365 operations, the challenge is eliminating everything that can cause communications establishment/ re-establishment -- operator steps, computer configuration, drive configuration, power failures, cooling failures, etc.. If you can find and eliminate all of them, a USB external drive can stay connected a very long time. > Get a cheap barebones system that you add memory to in a small-ish size > case with SATA cables to motherboard ports that's Intel/AMD based that > you can then put disks into to format. If you can't get a barebones, > at least get a second hand machine in a tower case. I have always liked ATX tower cases with lots of drive bays, both internal and external. Over time, more products have become available with good cooling and low noise. I have not found a major computer manufacturer who makes servers with all of those features, so I build my own: * Fractal Design Define R5 case * 3 @ Fractal Design low-speed 140 mm fans * Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 660 W power supply * Intel S1200V3RP motherboard * Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3 series processors * Dual channel ECC memory * LSI 9207-8i HBA with "IT mode" non-RAID firmware * Seagate Barracuda and Constellation ES.2 HDD's * Intel 520 Series SSD's * StarTech 2.5" and 3.5" mobile racks * Cable Matters black SATA 6 Gbps cables with locking connectors They are not cheap, small, or light, but they perform well, are easy to work on, are reasonably quiet, and everything stays cool. They have plenty of capacity for future upgrades. > Build a simple Debian system on one disk there to format other disks :) I put my Debian and FreeBSD instances on a single 2.5" SATA SSD. I keep them small -- 1 GB boot, 1 GB swap, and 12 GB root. I keep my system configuration files and working files in a version control system (CVS). > Once you've built a simple Debian system there, you can add mdadm RAID > and use it as a backup storage device to copy off your /home and so on. For my file server and backup server, primary storage is a ZFS stripe of HDD mirrors (e.g. RAID10) with SSD cache and SSD mirror deduplication. SSD RAID10 is very impressive when everything else matches. Backups over a Gigabit LAN onto SATA III SSD RAID10 does not make sense because Gigabit Ethernet is rated for 1 Gbps read/ write and a SATA III SSD RAID10 is rated for 24 Gbps read and 12 Gbps write. I would put HDD's in the backup server and put the SSD's in the workstation. David
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| From | Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-11-12 05:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Hardware for a back up server? [WAS Re: How to use dmsetuup?] |
| Message-ID | <Hzaql-4OtP-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #263390 |
> I have always liked ATX tower cases with lots of drive bays, both internal
> and external. Over time, more products have become available with good
> cooling and low noise. I have not found a major computer manufacturer who
> makes servers with all of those features, so I build my own:
>
> * Fractal Design Define R5 case
> * 3 @ Fractal Design low-speed 140 mm fans
> * Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 660 W power supply
> * Intel S1200V3RP motherboard
> * Intel Xeon E3-1200 v3 series processors
> * Dual channel ECC memory
> * LSI 9207-8i HBA with "IT mode" non-RAID firmware
> * Seagate Barracuda and Constellation ES.2 HDD's
> * Intel 520 Series SSD's
> * StarTech 2.5" and 3.5" mobile racks
> * Cable Matters black SATA 6 Gbps cables with locking connectors
My home NAS is in a completely different category:
an ARM SBC with on-board SATA. Much smaller, extremely quiet (no fan),
and between 5W and 10W of power consumption depending on whether it's
mostly idle (the overwhelmingly common case) or not.
Stefan
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