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  UNUBSCRIBE glenn green <glenn.green55@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 04:40 +0200
    Re: UNUBSCRIBE Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-08-11 06:40 +0200
      Re: UNUBSCRIBE Luna Jernberg <droidbittin@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 09:00 +0200
        Re: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-11 11:10 +0200
          Re: UNUBSCRIBE davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-11 16:00 +0200
            Re: UNUBSCRIBE Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-08-11 16:30 +0200
              Re: UNUBSCRIBE gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-11 17:00 +0200
                Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-08-11 20:30 +0200
                  Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-11 23:40 +0200
                    Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-08-12 00:50 +0200
                      Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-12 01:30 +0200
                    Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio zithro <slack@rabbit.lu> - 2023-08-12 02:10 +0200
                      List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing  list unsubscription requests and identificatio Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-12 03:00 +0200
                        Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2023-08-12 15:30 +0200
                          Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 03:40 +0200
                        Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-13 02:20 +0200
                          Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-13 02:30 +0200
                          Sorting messages by threads - was - Re: List administrators - request  for intervention Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-13 05:10 +0200
                          Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2023-08-13 05:50 +0200
                            Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-13 21:40 +0200
                              Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 22:50 +0200
                                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-14 19:00 +0200
                              Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-14 00:40 +0200
                                Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re:  Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2023-08-14 20:30 +0200
                      Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 03:20 +0200
                        Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-12 04:40 +0200
                          Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio zithro <slack@rabbit.lu> - 2023-08-14 18:30 +0200
                            Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-14 21:40 +0200
                        Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-08-12 18:20 +0200
                          Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-08-12 21:00 +0200
                    Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-08-12 05:20 +0200
                      Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 01:30 +0200
                        Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2023-08-13 19:00 +0200
                    Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio tomas@tuxteam.de - 2023-08-12 06:50 +0200
              Re: UNUBSCRIBE Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-11 17:50 +0200
                Re: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-11 20:10 +0200
                  Re: UNUBSCRIBE Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-12 10:10 +0200
                    Re: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-12 12:20 +0200
              Re: UNUBSCRIBE debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-08-11 19:10 +0200
            Re: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-11 20:00 +0200
              Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE fjd <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 04:20 +0200
                Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-12 12:10 +0200
                  Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE fjd <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 06:00 +0200
                  Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE fjd <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 06:20 +0200
                Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 16:50 +0200
                  Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-08-12 17:10 +0200
                    Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> - 2023-08-12 20:50 +0200
                      Re: Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-08-13 01:30 +0200
      Re: UNUBSCRIBE Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2023-08-11 17:50 +0200
        Re: UNUBSCRIBE Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2023-08-11 21:50 +0200

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

#260922 — Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 4:33 PM davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> wrote:
> [...]
> Somebody else posts a red-herring link, to a mailing list concerning
> the linux distro called Alpine Linux.
>  [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html
>
> Then Greg points out, in reply to the red-herring poster, that they
> have posted a red herring. <-- Here is where the tree structure view
> is illuminating.
>  [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00356.html
> [...]
> (The person who really HAD posted the red herring says nothing.)

What would you have me say? Greg made the correction. Do you really
need more fodder from me?

But I'll give you what you want... I sincerely apologize for posting
an incorrect link to an Alpine mailing list. I am so sorry I troubled
you for it. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me for the
transgression, and the inconvenience I caused to all members of the
list.

Jeff

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#260934 — Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

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On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 4:33 PM davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> wrote:
>> [...]
>> Somebody else posts a red-herring link, to a mailing list concerning
>> the linux distro called Alpine Linux.
>>  [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html
>>
>> Then Greg points out, in reply to the red-herring poster, that they
>> have posted a red herring. <-- Here is where the tree structure view
>> is illuminating.
>>  [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00356.html
>> [...]
>> (The person who really HAD posted the red herring says nothing.)
>
> What would you have me say? Greg made the correction.

I laid out the details of the process leading to the three-car
miscommunication pileup because it serves as a handy illustrative
example, in response to a question about whether knowledge of thread
structure could affect participant decisions.

Description, not prescription. I'm not here to tell consenting adults
what to do.

> Do you really need more fodder from me?

Nope. For my part I am fully up to speed.

But have you noticed the other fellow in this thread, who is now
calling me a malicious liar for giving you all the credit, and openly
fantasising about how underground debian justice-league ninjas are
about to break into my house, delete my account, and swap the taps in
my shower?

Looks like I'm in for a real Amélie Poulain job, it does. But the
joke's on him; I get the taps confused every time anyways, so at worst
I won't notice a thing.

> But I'll give you what you want...

I'm not a priest. And, just for the record since you seem to have read
me otherwise, I happen to think everyone's behavior so far has been
pretty normal human behavior, given reasonable assumptions about what
each knew at the time of their respective contributions.

The sheer normality of it is what makes it a good example, and perfect
comedy.

> I sincerely apologize for posting an incorrect link to an Alpine
> mailing list.  I am so sorry I troubled you for it.  I hope you can
> find it in your heart to forgive me for the transgression, and the
> inconvenience I caused to all members of the list.

I welcome your evident sarcasm here as a sign that we both agree that
the miscommunication event in question was a very normal one.

-- 
Hackers are free people. They are like artists. If they are in a good
mood, they get up in the morning and begin painting their pictures.
-- Vladimir Putin

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#260925 — Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On 14/8/23 03:36, davidson wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 Andy Smith wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 12:12:49AM +0000, davidson wrote:
>>> The foregoing demonstration is meant to show how, using alpine's
>>> threaded mode, I minimise my irritation with threads that I find
>>> irrelevant to my interests
>>
>> Unfortunately no matter how advanced your MUA is, it doesn't help
>> against prolific posters who derail nearly every thread with copious
>> amounts of irrelevance and outright false information.
> 
> This is a higher bar than merely neutralising the disruption (to one's
> own use of the list) caused by a popular thread that one has little
> interest in.
> 
> And here, my instincts are screaming "Leave it here. Stop now. Leave
> well enough alone for the sake of all that is holy!"
> 
> However, and speaking only for myself, I'll bite:
> 
> Being able to see a thread's messages structured as a tree of message
> headers (author, subject) can indeed help me infer quite a bit about
> what's going on, before I bother to dig in and actually read any of
> the messages' content.
> 
> For example, let P and Q be two regularly prolific participants, P
> with exceptionally high signal-to-noise contributions, and Q a hot
> willfully clueless mess. If there is a branch of the tree that is just
> a chain of back-and-forth between P and Q --Q.P.Q.P.Q...-- then I know
> what's going on in there and so some OTHER branch will be my first
> destination, unless I'm in the mood for a laugh.
> 
>> You can easily see from looking at most of the large threads here,
>> the points at which they go off the rails and the common factors
>> involved there.
> 
> I can indeed. Without seeing the tree structure, I do not think it
> would be so easy to see.
> 
>> It is a difficult problem to solve as mailing lists like this tend
>> to promote a volume-wins approach,
> 
> You may be correct, but this isn't clear to me. (Unless the object of
> the game is to annoy the greatest number of participants.)
> 
>> and the baseline user will not have an advanced MUA nor necessarily
>> the experience to know that they're reading nonsense.
> 
> When I conquer the world, you will know because /etc/motd will contain
> something like this:
> 
>    Don't enter commands you don't understand, and you won't understand
>    the commands unless you read the manual. If you read the manual, you
>    STILL may not understand the commands. Nevertheless, keep trying,
>    Curious Human. We are rooting for you!
> 
>> Things get easier when you use an advanced MUA, so people should
>> invest the time to do so, but let's not pretend that this will avoid
>> a mega-thread next time some outlandish thread hijack by one of the
>> usual suspects happens.
> 
> My point was simply this: threads I've lost interest in (regardless of
> size) are a single line in my mailbox, provided I do not delete its
> initial message.
> 
>> Does this particular thread go much better if you assume that
>> everyone participating (except the OP, who doesn't know how to
>> unsubscribe, or how to spell it) is fully competent at efficiently
>> managing email but still posts as they posted?
> 
> Funnily enough, if you look carefully, you can see some utterly
> slapstick confusion of that very nature in this thread, over who is to
> blame for posting a red-herring link to the Alpine Linux distro
> mailing list:
> 
> %<------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>      18159 Thursday   glenn green                   (6K) . UNUBSCRIBE
>      ...   ...        ...                           ...    ...
> [1] 18192 Yesterday  fjd                           (7K) .   |       \-Alpine was
> [2] 18193 Yesterday  Bret Busby                    (8K) .   |         |-Re: Alpi
> [6] 18194  5:55      fjd                           (7K)     |         | |-Re: Al
> [7] 18195  6:11      fjd                           (8K)     |         | \-Re: Al
> [3] 18196 Yesterday  Jeffrey Walton                (7K) .   |         \-Re: Alpi
> [4] 18197 Yesterday  Greg Wooledge                 (5K) .   |           \-Re: Al
> [5] 18198  2:41      Bret Busby                    (9K) .   |             \-Re:
>      18199 Yesterday  David Wright                  (6K)     |               \-Re
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------>%
> 
> Somebody requests a link to an alpine MUA forum or mailing list.
>   [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00333.html
> 
> Somebody posts a link to an alpine MUA mailing list.
>   [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00341.html
> 
> Somebody else posts a red-herring link, to a mailing list concerning
> the linux distro called Alpine Linux.
>   [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html
> 
> Then Greg points out, in reply to the red-herring poster, that they
> have posted a red herring. <-- Here is where the tree structure view
> is illuminating.
>   [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00356.html
> 
> And then the person who had posted the CORRECT link in the first place
> apologises for posting the wrong one, and posts the very same correct
> link once again. <-- This person, it would seem, is reading messages
> as a SEQUENCE, not as a TREE. (Because the tree makes clear to whom
> each message is a reply.)
>   [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00360.html
> 
> (The person who really HAD posted the red herring says nothing.)
> 
> And then yet another person chimes in to thank the poster of the
> correct MUA list link. And then he follows up, informing us all that
> he has just realised (from reading debian-user, not from examination
> of the link's target) that this (correct) link has been subsequently
> discovered to be incorrect.
>   [6] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00381.html
>   [7] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00382.html
> 
You should be very careful with your systematic lies and false 
accusations on this list.

I am the person who posted the wrong URL for the pine users mailing 
list, and I explicitly apologised for it, and, posted the correct URL 
for the pine users mailing list.

This list has people far more knowledgeable and skilled than me, 
especially regarding what can be done across and beyond the Internet, 
and, if, through your misconduct on this list, you upset them, and they 
decide to retaliate, you could find your life outside this mailing list, 
destroyed.

So, I would be careful of your malicious behaviour on this list, if I 
was you.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#260936 — Re: List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 Bret Busby wrote:
> On 14/8/23 03:36, davidson wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 Andy Smith wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 12:12:49AM +0000, davidson wrote:
>>>> The foregoing demonstration is meant to show how, using alpine's
>>>> threaded mode, I minimise my irritation with threads that I find
>>>> irrelevant to my interests
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately no matter how advanced your MUA is, it doesn't help
>>> against prolific posters who derail nearly every thread with
>>> copious amounts of irrelevance and outright false information.
>> 
>> This is a higher bar than merely neutralising the disruption (to
>> one's own use of the list) caused by a popular thread that one has
>> little interest in.
>> 
>> And here, my instincts are screaming "Leave it here. Stop
>> now. Leave well enough alone for the sake of all that is holy!"
>> 
>> However, and speaking only for myself, I'll bite:
>> 
>> Being able to see a thread's messages structured as a tree of
>> message headers (author, subject) can indeed help me infer quite a
>> bit about what's going on, before I bother to dig in and actually
>> read any of the messages' content.
>> 
>> For example, let P and Q be two regularly prolific participants, P
>> with exceptionally high signal-to-noise contributions, and Q a hot
>> willfully clueless mess. If there is a branch of the tree that is
>> just a chain of back-and-forth between P and Q --Q.P.Q.P.Q...--
>> then I know what's going on in there and so some OTHER branch will
>> be my first destination, unless I'm in the mood for a laugh.
>> 
>>> You can easily see from looking at most of the large threads here,
>>> the points at which they go off the rails and the common factors
>>> involved there.
>> 
>> I can indeed. Without seeing the tree structure, I do not think it
>> would be so easy to see.
>> 
>>> It is a difficult problem to solve as mailing lists like this tend
>>> to promote a volume-wins approach,
>> 
>> You may be correct, but this isn't clear to me. (Unless the object
>> of the game is to annoy the greatest number of participants.)
>> 
>>> and the baseline user will not have an advanced MUA nor necessarily
>>> the experience to know that they're reading nonsense.
>> 
>> When I conquer the world, you will know because /etc/motd will
>> contain something like this:
>>
>>    Don't enter commands you don't understand, and you won't
>>    understand the commands unless you read the manual. If you read
>>    the manual, you STILL may not understand the
>>    commands. Nevertheless, keep trying, Curious Human. We are
>>    rooting for you!
>> 
>>> Things get easier when you use an advanced MUA, so people should
>>> invest the time to do so, but let's not pretend that this will avoid
>>> a mega-thread next time some outlandish thread hijack by one of the
>>> usual suspects happens.
>> 
>> My point was simply this: threads I've lost interest in (regardless
>> of size) are a single line in my mailbox, provided I do not delete
>> its initial message.
>> 
>>> Does this particular thread go much better if you assume that
>>> everyone participating (except the OP, who doesn't know how to
>>> unsubscribe, or how to spell it) is fully competent at efficiently
>>> managing email but still posts as they posted?
>> 
>> Funnily enough, if you look carefully, you can see some utterly
>> slapstick confusion of that very nature in this thread, over who is to
>> blame for posting a red-herring link to the Alpine Linux distro
>> mailing list:
>> 
>> %<---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>      18159 Thursday   glenn green                (6K) . UNUBSCRIBE
>>      ...   ...        ...                        ...    ...
>> [1] 18192 Yesterday  fjd                         (7K) .   |      \-Alpine was
>> [2] 18193 Yesterday  Bret Busby                  (8K) .   |        |-Re: Alpi
>> [6] 18194  5:55      fjd                         (7K)     |        | |-Re: Al
>> [7] 18195  6:11      fjd                         (8K)     |        | \-Re: Al
>> [3] 18196 Yesterday  Jeffrey Walton              (7K) .   |        \-Re: Alpi
>> [4] 18197 Yesterday  Greg Wooledge               (5K) .   |          \-Re: Al
>> [5] 18198  2:41      Bret Busby                  (9K) .   |            \-Re:
>>      18199 Yesterday  David Wright               (6K)     |              \-Re
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------->%
>> 
>> Somebody requests a link to an alpine MUA forum or mailing list.
>>   [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00333.html
>> 
>> Somebody posts a link to an alpine MUA mailing list.
>>   [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00341.html
>> 
>> Somebody else posts a red-herring link, to a mailing list concerning
>> the linux distro called Alpine Linux.
>>   [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html
>> 
>> Then Greg points out, in reply to the red-herring poster, that they
>> have posted a red herring. <-- Here is where the tree structure view
>> is illuminating.
>>   [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00356.html
>> 
>> And then the person who had posted the CORRECT link in the first
>> place apologises for posting the wrong one, and posts the very same
>> correct link once again. <-- This person, it would seem, is reading
>> messages as a SEQUENCE, not as a TREE. (Because the tree makes
>> clear to whom each message is a reply.)
>>   [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00360.html
>> 
>> (The person who really HAD posted the red herring says nothing.)
>> 
>> And then yet another person chimes in to thank the poster of the
>> correct MUA list link. And then he follows up, informing us all
>> that he has just realised (from reading debian-user, not from
>> examination of the link's target) that this (correct) link has been
>> subsequently discovered to be incorrect.
>>   [6] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00381.html
>>   [7] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00382.html
>> 
> You should be very careful with your systematic lies and false
> accusations on this list.

Bret, if you examine the links I provided (and which remain quoted
above) to messages publicly archived, and which substantiate each of
my descriptions, I believe you will discover that my descriptions were
reasonably accurate.

Furthermore, I have accused nobody of wrongdoing.

> I am the person who posted the wrong URL for the pine users mailing
> list,

You posted this message,

   [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00341.html

which contains this link to a page for a mailing list devoted to the
Alpine MUA:

   http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

But it was NOT you who posted this message,

   [3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00355.html

which contains the following link, to a wiki page containing a list of
links for managing subscriptions to various mailing lists related to
the Alpine Linux operating system:

   https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Alpine_Linux:Mailing_lists

> and I explicitly apologised for it,

You did indeed make that apology.

Presumably you did so because you were confused about whom Greg was
addressing when he pointed out, in reply to the author of [3], that
the link in [3] was not responsive to the request in [1] (above).

> and, posted the correct URL for the pine users mailing list.

Indeed you did. You did so in this message, wherein you make your
apology,

   [5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/08/msg00360.html

and which provides this link

   https://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

which is identical to the link you provided in [2], modulo the URL
scheme.

> This list has people far more knowledgeable and skilled than me,
> especially regarding what can be done across and beyond the
> Internet, and, if, through your misconduct on this list, you upset
> them, and they decide to retaliate, you could find your life outside
> this mailing list, destroyed.

My dear imaginative antipodean fellow, I am sorry to report that I
have 99 problems, and that provoking the ire of some underground
debian ninja cabal is not one of them.

> So, I would be careful of your malicious behaviour on this list, if
> I was you.

It is not malice that has prompted me to take this time to repeat
myself so carefully, in this final effort to dispel your evident
confusion.

-- 
Hackers are free people. They are like artists. If they are in a good
mood, they get up in the morning and begin painting their pictures.
-- Vladimir Putin

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#260852 — Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 6:03 PM zithro <slack@rabbit.lu> wrote:

> On 11 Aug 2023 23:39, gene heskett wrote:
> > No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all
> > the bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at least
> > a decade.
>
> With all due respect, can you stop spreading misinformation to this list ?
> Not only this has nothing to do with unsubscribing to the ML, but it
> just shows that you don't get what you're talking about.
> Are you really an engineer ?!
>
> This extends to : DONT FOLLOW TUTORIALS THAT WONT EXPLAIN THE **WHY**
>
> Also, I admire dedicated people on this ML ...
> It's only 3 months I'm following it regularly, to learn things about
> Debian.
> What did I learn ? Random people SUCK. Big time


Who is a random person to you? You’re new to this list, so you have no clue
who is who here.

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#260855 — Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On 8/11/23 21:10, Larry Martell wrote:
Larry, whom I've known for 20 years, is only echoing.
      Are you really an engineer ?!
> 
No, I am not an EE, but I am a Certified Electronics Technician, a much 
rarer breed of cat than your run of the mill EE.  We teach EE's how to 
get their hands dirty in the real world. Teaching them things their 
tenured by mistake prof's didn't.

> Who is a random person to you? You’re new to this list, so you have no 
> clue who is who here.

Thanks Larry. Take care & stay well, both of you.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#260933 — Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On 12 Aug 2023 04:39, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/11/23 21:10, Larry Martell wrote:
> Larry, whom I've known for 20 years, is only echoing.
>       Are you really an engineer ?!
>>
> No, I am not an EE, but I am a Certified Electronics Technician, a much 
> rarer breed of cat than your run of the mill EE.  We teach EE's how to 
> get their hands dirty in the real world. Teaching them things their 
> tenured by mistake prof's didn't.

Ok, so you should follow specs and best practices, right ?

>> Who is a random person to you? You’re new to this list, so you have no 
>> clue who is who here.
> 
> Thanks Larry. Take care & stay well, both of you.

The list is public since the start.

But I admit my post was misleading, lacking some transition between my 
objections to Gene and the remainder.

Gene is far from the random people I ranted about, and it doesn't take 
long to know he's rather a top poster, respectful and polite.

Gene, if you took it personnaly, I sincerely apologize.
That was really NOT my intent.

-- 
++
zithro / Cyril

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#260938 — Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On 8/14/23 12:24, zithro wrote:
> On 12 Aug 2023 04:39, gene heskett wrote:
>> On 8/11/23 21:10, Larry Martell wrote:
>> Larry, whom I've known for 20 years, is only echoing.
>>       Are you really an engineer ?!
>>>
>> No, I am not an EE, but I am a Certified Electronics Technician, a 
>> much rarer breed of cat than your run of the mill EE.  We teach EE's 
>> how to get their hands dirty in the real world. Teaching them things 
>> their tenured by mistake prof's didn't.
> 
> Ok, so you should follow specs and best practices, right ?
> 
>>> Who is a random person to you? You’re new to this list, so you have 
>>> no clue who is who here.
>>
>> Thanks Larry. Take care & stay well, both of you.
> 
> The list is public since the start.
> 
> But I admit my post was misleading, lacking some transition between my 
> objections to Gene and the remainder.
> 
> Gene is far from the random people I ranted about, and it doesn't take 
> long to know he's rather a top poster, respectful and polite.
> 
> Gene, if you took it personnaly, I sincerely apologize.
> That was really NOT my intent.
> 
And I didn't take it that way, but I did try to fix the missing 
attribution.  NP IOW, take care & stay well.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#260878 — Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On 2023-08-12, Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Who is a random person to you? You're new to this list, so you have
>  no clue
> who is who here.
>

Gene may be many things, but he's not random. He's *old*, though, so I
think certain breaks are to be given on that account. 

But what I want to know is: if you misspell "unsubscribe" in your
subscription cancellation email to the appropriate Debian user list
address, what happens?

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#260883 — Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On 8/12/23 12:18, Curt wrote:
> On 2023-08-12, Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> wrote:
>>

Larry didn't write the next quote, he was echoing the OP which I snipped.
>>
>> Who is a random person to you? You're new to this list, so you have
>>   no clue
>> who is who here.
>>
> 
Larry did write this:

> Gene may be many things, but he's not random. He's *old*, though, so I
> think certain breaks are to be given on that account.
> 
> But what I want to know is: if you misspell "unsubscribe" in your
> subscription cancellation email to the appropriate Debian user list
> address, what happens?



Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

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#260856 — Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On Fri 11 Aug 2023 at 17:39:28 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/11/23 14:25, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:59:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > The recommended procedure usually works, unless the user is now using a
> > > different browser or has installed a new version of the OS.
> > 
> > Sorry, Gene, this is plain wrong. The way it works is this:
> > 
> No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all
> the bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at
> least a decade. The fact that I have a nearly 30 character pw it would
> take eons to guess, doesn't mean a thing to them.

If you only have to type your password monthly in order to login,
that suggests your bank has a very lax security model. I presume
you never actively logout when you've finished the day's business.

Many banks nowadays use two factor authentication, and automatically
log you out after a period of inactivity. Furthermore, they often
require reauthentication in order to make any withdrawals.

Cheers,
David.

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#260896 — Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 11:17 PM David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On Fri 11 Aug 2023 at 17:39:28 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> > On 8/11/23 14:25, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:59:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > > The recommended procedure usually works, unless the user is now using a
> > > > different browser or has installed a new version of the OS.
> > >
> > > Sorry, Gene, this is plain wrong. The way it works is this:
> > >
> > No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all
> > the bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at
> > least a decade. The fact that I have a nearly 30 character pw it would
> > take eons to guess, doesn't mean a thing to them.
>
> If you only have to type your password monthly in order to login,
> that suggests your bank has a very lax security model. I presume
> you never actively logout when you've finished the day's business.
>
> Many banks nowadays use two factor authentication, and automatically
> log you out after a period of inactivity. Furthermore, they often
> require reauthentication in order to make any withdrawals.

In the US, the banks are laxed. Banks claim they don't want to lose
customers with inconveniences. I understand things are different from
Europe.

In the US, risk is democratized and reward is privatized. Shareholders
get the losses and executives get the bonuses. No skin off the
executive's backs if the bank or the customer loses money due to
fraud.

Jeff

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#260915 — Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

On 2023-08-12, Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In the US, the banks are laxed. Banks claim they don't want to lose
> customers with inconveniences. I understand things are different from
> Europe.

It's a two-edged sword, though: I had to purchase a new smart phone in
order to continue banking with one French bank, because I could no
longer update their app with my old one; the enforcement of the fairly
recent security regulations for online banking here involve methods that
generally, and conceivably invariably, require you to possess a fairly
recent device.

> In the US, risk is democratized and reward is privatized. Shareholders
> get the losses and executives get the bonuses. No skin off the
> executive's backs if the bank or the customer loses money due to
> fraud.
>
> Jeff
>
>


-- 

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#260858 — Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 05:39:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/11/23 14:25, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:59:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > The recommended procedure usually works, unless the user is now using a
> > > different browser or has installed a new version of the OS.
> > 
> > Sorry, Gene, this is plain wrong. The way it works is this:
> > 
> No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all the
> bs of proving I am me to my bank,

You just moved the goalpost: the Debian mailing lists are not your
bank. Whatever your bank does... I think I don't want to know that.

The current context was the Debian mailing list. Not your bank. Not
some dystopian lock-in software for some (at first cheap) hardware.
Not anything else.

Try to keep things apart, Gene. That eases discussions.

Cheers
-- 
t

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#260838

Am 11/08/2023 um 14:26 schrieb Greg Wooledge:
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:52:53PM +0000, davidson wrote:
>> I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's mail
>> straight to
>>
>>   debian-user-request@lists.debian.org
> 
> Except then the user would not learn how to unsubscribe correctly, and
> someone would have to keep doing it for them every time this comes up
> in the future.
> 
> 

UNUBSCRIBE

-- 
Ottavio Caruso

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

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#260843

On 11/8/23 23:46, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Am 11/08/2023 um 14:26 schrieb Greg Wooledge:
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:52:53PM +0000, davidson wrote:
>>> I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's mail
>>> straight to
>>>
>>>   debian-user-request@lists.debian.org
>>
>> Except then the user would not learn how to unsubscribe correctly, and
>> someone would have to keep doing it for them every time this comes up
>> in the future.
>>
>>
> 
> UNUBSCRIBE
> 


Eh wot?

Am you wont to unubscribe tu?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#260861

Am 11/08/2023 um 18:03 schrieb Bret Busby:
> On 11/8/23 23:46, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>> Am 11/08/2023 um 14:26 schrieb Greg Wooledge:
>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:52:53PM +0000, davidson wrote:
>>>> I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's mail
>>>> straight to
>>>>
>>>>   debian-user-request@lists.debian.org
>>>
>>> Except then the user would not learn how to unsubscribe correctly, and
>>> someone would have to keep doing it for them every time this comes up
>>> in the future.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> UNUBSCRIBE
>>
> 
> 
> Eh wot?
> 
> Am you wont to unubscribe tu?
> 

Yes.

-- 
Ottavio Caruso

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

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#260863

On 12/8/23 16:06, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Am 11/08/2023 um 18:03 schrieb Bret Busby:
>> On 11/8/23 23:46, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>>> Am 11/08/2023 um 14:26 schrieb Greg Wooledge:
>>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:52:53PM +0000, davidson wrote:
>>>>> I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's mail
>>>>> straight to
>>>>>
>>>>>   debian-user-request@lists.debian.org
>>>>
>>>> Except then the user would not learn how to unsubscribe correctly, and
>>>> someone would have to keep doing it for them every time this comes up
>>>> in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> UNUBSCRIBE
>>>
>>
>>
>> Eh wot?
>>
>> Am you wont to unubscribe tu?
>>
> 
> Yes.
> 

Then follow the clearly stated instructions that have already been posted.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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#260840

Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:52:53PM +0000, davidson wrote:
> > I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's
> > mail straight to
> > 
> >  debian-user-request@lists.debian.org  
> 
> Except then the user would not learn how to unsubscribe correctly, and
> someone would have to keep doing it for them every time this comes up
> in the future.

The OP hasn't even learned how to spell, let alone anything more
complicated :)

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#260842

On 11/8/23 21:52, davidson wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 Bret Busby wrote:
>> On 11/8/23 14:49, Luna Jernberg wrote:
>>> Or one could unsubscribe using the web interface here:
>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/
>>>
>>
>> "If all else fails, follow the instructions"
>>
>> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#subunsub
>>
>> "
>> Subscription / Unsubscription
>>
>> Anyone is able to subscribe/unsubscribe on their own to any mailing 
>> list, presuming the subscription policy for a particular list is open.
> [snip]
>> The requests for subscription or unsubscription can also be sent by 
>> email, to a special control address, which is slightly different from 
>> the lists address. Subscription or unsubscription messages should NOT 
>> be sent to the address of the mailing list itself.
>>
>> To subscribe to or unsubscribe from a mailing list, please send mail to
>>
>> <listname>-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
>>
>> with the word subscribe or unsubscribe as subject.
> 
> I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's mail
> straight to
> 
>   debian-user-request@lists.debian.org
> 
>> Please remember the -REQUEST part of the address.
>>
>> As part of the subscription process, the list software will send you 
>> an email to which you must reply in order to finish subscribing. This 
>> is a security measure to keep people from subscribing others to the 
>> lists without their permission.
>> "
> 
> OP would then get a confirmation email, and problem solved.
> 
> NOTES
> 
> 1. From Alpine's help page on bouncing:
> 
> The Bounce (B) command allows you to re-send, or "remail", a message,
> as if you were never in the loop. It is analogous to crossing out your
> address on a postal letter, writing a different address on the
> envelope, and putting it into the mailbox. Bounce is used primarily to
> redirect email that was sent to you in error. Also, some owners of
> email lists need the bounce command to handle list traffic. Bounce is
> not anonymous. A ReSent-From header is added to the message so that
> the recipient may tell that you Bounced it to them.
> 

Thank you for that.

I am an alpine user (and pine before alpine), and I did not know of this 
functionality.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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