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Groups > linux.debian.user > #257755 > unrolled thread
| Started by | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2023-05-01 01:10 +0200 |
| Last post | 2023-05-08 07:10 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 89 — 15 participants |
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repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered several times. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-01 01:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered several times. Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2023-05-01 02:20 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered several times. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-01 09:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered several times. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 15:00 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered severaltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-01 15:50 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered severaltimes. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 16:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered severaltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 16:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-01 17:00 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 17:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered severaltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 16:20 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-01 17:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-01 17:20 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 17:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-01 17:50 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 18:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-01 19:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 19:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-02 00:00 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-02 01:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-01 19:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 20:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-02 00:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-05-01 22:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 23:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-02 01:00 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has goneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-02 00:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has goneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-02 01:00 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered severaltimes. Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2023-05-01 16:20 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered severaltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-01 17:00 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered several times. David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 06:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered several times. john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2023-05-01 09:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered several times. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-05-01 13:50 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered several times. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-01 15:00 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered several times. zithro <slack@rabbit.lu> - 2023-05-04 21:50 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered severaltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-04 22:00 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unanswered severaltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-05 16:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-05 17:50 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-05 19:50 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-05 22:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-06 01:00 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-06 03:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Alex King <alex@king.net.nz> - 2023-05-07 01:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. David <curmudgeon@telaman.net.au> - 2023-05-07 02:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2023-05-07 03:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2023-05-07 13:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-07 17:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-07 18:50 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-08 06:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-08 13:50 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-08 19:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-09 00:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-09 10:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-05-09 13:20 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-09 22:50 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-10 14:20 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-10 16:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2023-05-10 16:50 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-10 17:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-10 19:20 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-10 20:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-10 22:00 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-11 13:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-11 18:30 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-10 22:10 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2023-05-10 22:20 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-11 13:10 +0200
SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-11 18:10 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-11 21:20 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2023-05-12 00:00 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-05-12 00:30 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2023-05-12 01:50 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that has goneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-12 03:40 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that has goneunansweredseveraltimes. Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2023-05-12 11:20 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that hasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-12 12:30 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that hasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2023-05-12 13:30 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that hasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2023-05-12 13:50 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question thathasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-12 18:20 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that hasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-12 12:30 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that hasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2023-05-12 13:50 +0200
:Re: repeat of previous question thathasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-12 18:10 +0200
Re: :Re: repeat of previous question thathasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2023-05-12 23:30 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that hasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-12 20:50 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question thathasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-12 21:30 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question thathasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2023-05-13 13:20 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous questionthathasgoneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-13 17:10 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that has goneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-12 03:30 +0200
Re: SOLVED:Re: repeat of previous question that has goneunansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-12 03:20 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> - 2023-05-07 19:40 +0200
Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2023-05-08 07:10 +0200
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-06 03:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <Gsf3X-6UkH-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #257997 |
On 5/5/23 18:51, Brian wrote: > On Fri 05 May 2023 at 16:32:36 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > >> On 5/5/23 13:45, Brian wrote: > > [...] > >>> * An output from 'lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l' that indicates a broken >>> system. >> >> this is bad? >> gene@coyote:~$ lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l >> PageSize/Media Size: 184.15x260mm 195.09x269.88mm 200.03x148.17mm 4x6 A4 A5 >> A6 B5 B6 Env10 EnvC5 EnvDL EnvMonarch EnvYou4 Executive FanFoldGermanLegal >> ISOB5 ISOB6 Legal *Letter Postcard roc16k Custom.WIDTHxHEIGHT >> InputSlot/Media Source: *Manual Tray1 >> ColorModel/Output Mode: FastGray *Gray >> Duplex/Duplex: *None DuplexNoTumble DuplexTumble >> OutputBin/OutputBin: *FaceDown >> cupsPrintQuality/cupsPrintQuality: *Normal > > The commaand has been executed on the server, the machine named coyote. The > machine of interest is bpi51, which gives > > > gene@bpi51:~$ lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l > > lpoptions: Unable to get PPD file for HLL2320D_coyote: The printer or class > > does not exist. > > bpi51 is unable to the printer attributes from coyote. > > Contrast that with a buster machine: > > gene@sixty40:~$ lpoptions -p HLL2320D_coyote -l > > > PageSize/Media Size: Custom.WIDTHxHEIGHT *Letter Legal Executive > > FanFoldGermanLegal A4 A5 A6 Env10 EnvMonarch EnvDL EnvC5 ISOB5 B5 > > ISOB6 B6 4x6 Postcard DoublePostcardRotated EnvYou4 195x270mm > > 184x260mm 197x273mm CUSTOM1 CUSTOM2 CUSTOM3 > > BrMediaType/MediaType: *PLAIN THIN THICK THICKERPAPER2 BOND ENV > > ENVTHICK ENVTHIN RECYCLED > > InputSlot/InputSlot: MANUAL *TRAY1 > > Duplex/Duplex: DuplexTumble *DuplexNoTumble None > > Resolution/Resolution: 300dpi *600dpi 2400x600dpi > > TonerSaveMode/Toner Save: *OFF ON > > Sleep/Sleep Time [Min.]: *PrinterDefault 2minutes 10minutes 30minutes > > This output would be expected on bpi51. > >> The only thing I don't see is its shared state? but it is. >> So why can't another bullseye install use these printers? Buster machines >> have 100% transparent access. > > Because bpi51 is unable to get attributes from the server to form a PPD file > for HLL2320D_coyote. That is what needs sorting. > The question then becomes what is stopping it, A further clue, maybe, is the error log here that reports a lack of auth, but does not say from where. that precious little to go hunting for. Someone more familiar with cups might be able to make it spit out more specifics. Thanks Brian. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
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| From | Alex King <alex@king.net.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-07 01:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GszvJ-776Z-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #257995 |
Printing on Linux is poor. CUPS is poor. It doesn't work for some (a lot?) of people. I have a Brother HL-L2300D printer. It is connected to my (Debian bullseye) workstation by USB. I have CUPS installed. My printer prints sometime. Other times, it spins up (makes a noise like it is about to start printing), but nothing comes out. I can't get any useful diagnostics to tell me where the problem might be. My parents, who live some distance away have an HP inkjet printer. It works sometimes. Other times it doesn't. I get it set up so it's working and it might work for a while, but it will stop working for no reason. There might be several queues for the printer; some work and some just don't. A working queue will stop working for no discernible reason. Working queues will disappear, new queues will appear seemingly at random. The print system will default to an automatically provided queue that could never work, because it relies on some software component that is not installed.... etc... etc... Between my parents and my own system, I have spent 10s or 100s of hours trying to get a reliable printing system over decades, with many different printers. Maybe there were periods where printing worked OK. But I haven't managed to achieve reliable printing in the medium term. I read ESR https://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html, and my personal experience is that nothing much has changed in the "driverless" era. I've been a sysadmin for 30 odd years, configuring different aspects of linux (webservers, email servers, DNS, networking, desktop environments etc.) using open source software. Some problems are difficult to solve, but I've always found that having a good basic understanding, checking logs, using tools to confirm what is happening, and doing research on how things work, allows me to solve those problems eventually. Not so with CUPS and printing. I have tried many different approaches (e.g. * reinstall from scratch, accept the default packages and default options. * go to the linux printing site and follow the recommended method for my model of printer * try to understand how CUPS works, set up as statically and simply as possible, and use standard tools to troubleshoot printing failures.) I have not succeeded with any approach. It could be that I have struck certain models of printer with bugs. Hardware and firmware bugs exist, and not just in printers. However, I don't find hardware or firmware bugs cause me significant pain as there are normally software or configuration based work-arounds/allowances for them in Debian. Except for printers. These same printer models work much more reliably in MacOS and Windows. Back in the lpr/lpd days things were more reliable. Is there a deeper problem affecting printing on linux? I asked work colleagues and got two responses: "oh, shit. you’re actually printing from linux. my condolences.', and "I use Epson and Ubuntu, never had an issue with print over IP - so I can attest to drivers working from that perspective atleast" My perspective is that there is a significant issue, at least for a portion of users. Implying the user is at fault (which Brian isn't necessarily doing here,) or acting surprised when someone has trouble printing, is like gaslighting. Maybe it works OK for you, but please understand that is not the general case. Debian can't support every printer for every user, but knowing that, CUPS should come with a health warning: "We supply this software as-is in the knowledge that it has known faults, and will not work reliably for all users. We wish there were a way that Debian users could reliably print, but there is not. You may get some help on Debian User, but in general printing is not supported." Thanks, Alex On 6/05/23 05:45, Brian wrote: > Your conclusion is that the printing system is in itself is defective and that is > reflected in your response.
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| From | David <curmudgeon@telaman.net.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-07 02:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GsA8p-77yz-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258018 |
On Sun, 2023-05-07 at 11:02 +1200, Alex King wrote: > Printing on Linux is poor. CUPS is poor. It doesn't work for some > (a > lot?) of people. I bought an Epson WF-C5290 18 months ago, connected it up, installed the Linux driver provided on the Epson site, and it has been as solid as a rock. Very happy with it. Cheers! <snip> -- A Kiwi in Australia, doing my bit toward raising the national standard.
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| From | Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-07 03:40 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GsBxv-78eW-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258018 |
Alex King <alex@king.net.nz> writes: > Printing on Linux is poor. CUPS is poor. It doesn't work for some (a lot?) > of people. > > I have a Brother HL-L2300D printer. It is connected to my (Debian bullseye) > workstation by USB. I have CUPS installed. > (...) Hellow Alex! In South Korea, most people does printing at just MS-Windows machine. Me too. So i have no printer in house. If i have to print something, i go to my friend home -- he have printer and MS-Windows machine. Maybe off-topic, have nice day ^^^ Sincerely, Byung-Hee from South Korea -- ^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//
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| From | Eduardo M KALINOWSKI <eduardo@kalinowski.com.br> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-07 13:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GsKKt-7e6G-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258018 |
On 06/05/2023 20:02, Alex King wrote: > Implying the user is at fault (which Brian isn't necessarily doing > here,) or acting surprised when someone has trouble printing, is like > gaslighting. Maybe it works OK for you, but please understand that is > not the general case. Take not of this, it'll be important later. > Debian can't support every printer for every > user, but knowing that, CUPS should come with a health warning: "We > supply this software as-is in the knowledge that it has known faults, > and will not work reliably for all users. We wish there were a way that > Debian users could reliably print, but there is not. You may get some > help on Debian User, but in general printing is not supported." This proposal is as bad as what you criticized in the first quoted segment. It might say the opposite, but it's still an overly wide generalization. Pretty much everything in Debian is provided as-is and with no warranties (it's explicitly said so in the license), but the maintainers do try to make the software work as well as possible (and other people can step in if the maintainer is unresponsive). Since we're talking about anecdotes, I have a very similar printer to yours (a Brother MF-2470DW - I believe the engine is basically the same, but my model has a scanner and maybe fax), and I've used it with cups with no issues for years, both with the Brother proprietary driver and lately with the "driverless" feature (which should really be called "universal driver" or something like that, but that's another issue). Before that, I've had at least three other printers (Lexmark, HP and one that I can't remember) that also worked with no problems. This doesn't prove anything, but neither do your bad experiences. I'd guess that more people can print than can't (provided the printer is supported), so even if "cups works fine and printing is supported" isn't always correct, it's probably more correct than "in general printing is not supported". -- Not everything worth doing is worth doing well. Eduardo M KALINOWSKI eduardo@kalinowski.com.br
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-07 17:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GsOuJ-7giK-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258018 |
On 5/6/23 19:29, Alex King wrote: > Printing on Linux is poor. CUPS is poor. It doesn't work for some (a > lot?) of people. > > I have a Brother HL-L2300D printer. It is connected to my (Debian > bullseye) workstation by USB. I have CUPS installed. > > My printer prints sometime. Other times, it spins up (makes a noise > like it is about to start printing), but nothing comes out. I can't get > any useful diagnostics to tell me where the problem might be. > There is a light at the end of this dark tunnel, IF you are willing to change the brand name on the printer. But in your case you've already done that. So now do a search for brotherusa, go there and download their driver installer, unpack it, run it sudo if needed. It will ask you for the model # of your printer, enter it EXACTLY, the script will, if you've net access, goto brothers site, download the exact driver your printer needs, install it, integrating with cups perfectly but you will probably need to disable cups-browsed as it will make the default driver the everywhere driver, crippling 95% of the printers abilities. And from the machine the printer is plugged into, and assuming browsed is stopped so you can use the brother driver, it Just Works. However, if its to be shared, usable from other machines on your local home network AND your other machines are also running bullseye, and some of my arm stuff is, something is locking out the discovery of shares by cups, hence my constant harping about it here. Other Buster machines Just Work but in my case and to emphasize the point, an rpi4b running buster works but no banana pi m2 running bullseye can find a printer for cups. But lpstat -t on that same bpi running bullseye sees them all. I assume they can print, but thru an lp derivitive that means your Aunt Tilly has to remember the exact name and all the options that go with it. And Aunt Tilly will be back on windows next week. She, like I, just wants HER printer to work. > My parents, who live some distance away have an HP inkjet printer. It > works sometimes. Other times it doesn't. I get it set up so it's > working and it might work for a while, but it will stop working for no > reason. There might be several queues for the printer; some work and > some just don't. A working queue will stop working for no discernible > reason. Working queues will disappear, new queues will appear seemingly > at random. The print system will default to an automatically provided > queue that could never work, because it relies on some software > component that is not installed.... etc... etc... > > Between my parents and my own system, I have spent 10s or 100s of hours > trying to get a reliable printing system over decades, with many > different printers. Maybe there were periods where printing worked OK. > But I haven't managed to achieve reliable printing in the medium term. > > I read ESR https://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html, and my > personal experience is that nothing much has changed in the "driverless" > era. To me, its been a wholesale slauterhouse since cups was sold to Apple. The only fix I can see will require that we as a world wide group, decide to monetarily support a cups like fork, getting away from the if it doesn't suit Apple, it doesn't happen, influence. TANSTAAFL folks. If you think the peanuts are free, its time to look at the price of the beer. Coders like to eat, good ones should be able to afford a longer ladder up the side of the hog... I can easily afford a $25/anum fee. What say you? > I've been a sysadmin for 30 odd years, configuring different aspects of > linux (webservers, email servers, DNS, networking, desktop environments > etc.) using open source software. Some problems are difficult to solve, > but I've always found that having a good basic understanding, checking > logs, using tools to confirm what is happening, and doing research on > how things work, allows me to solve those problems eventually. And I've been roping electrons into doing useful work for about 75 years. > Not so with CUPS and printing. I have tried many different approaches > (e.g. * reinstall from scratch, accept the default packages and default > options. * go to the linux printing site and follow the recommended > method for my model of printer * try to understand how CUPS works, set > up as statically and simply as possible, and use standard tools to > troubleshoot printing failures.) I have not succeeded with any approach. ditto. > > It could be that I have struck certain models of printer with bugs. > Hardware and firmware bugs exist, and not just in printers. However, I > don't find hardware or firmware bugs cause me significant pain as there > are normally software or configuration based work-arounds/allowances for > them in Debian. Except for printers. These same printer models work > much more reliably in MacOS and Windows. > > Back in the lpr/lpd days things were more reliable. > They apparently still are, for those with the memory for cli. > Is there a deeper problem affecting printing on linux? I asked work > colleagues and got two responses: > > "oh, shit. you’re actually printing from linux. my condolences.', and > > "I use Epson and Ubuntu, never had an issue with print over IP - so I > can attest to drivers working from that perspective atleast" > > My perspective is that there is a significant issue, at least for a > portion of users. > > Implying the user is at fault (which Brian isn't necessarily doing > here,) or acting surprised when someone has trouble printing, is like > gaslighting. Maybe it works OK for you, but please understand that is > not the general case. Debian can't support every printer for every > user, but knowing that, CUPS should come with a health warning: "We > supply this software as-is in the knowledge that it has known faults, > and will not work reliably for all users. We wish there were a way that > Debian users could reliably print, but there is not. You may get some > help on Debian User, but in general printing is not supported." > > Thanks, > Alex > > On 6/05/23 05:45, Brian wrote: >> Your conclusion is that the printing system is in itself is defective >> and that is >> reflected in your response. No adverse reflection on Brian, he has been very helpful indeed in isolating my problems to a broken cups. But neither of us has yet found whats actually broken. Take care & stay well everybody. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-07 18:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GsPK9-7gYn-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258032 |
On Sun 07 May 2023 at 11:26:05 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On 5/6/23 19:29, Alex King wrote: > > Printing on Linux is poor. CUPS is poor. It doesn't work for some (a > > lot?) of people. > > > > I have a Brother HL-L2300D printer. It is connected to my (Debian > > bullseye) workstation by USB. I have CUPS installed. > > > > My printer prints sometime. Other times, it spins up (makes a noise > > like it is about to start printing), but nothing comes out. I can't get > > any useful diagnostics to tell me where the problem might be. > > > There is a light at the end of this dark tunnel, IF you are willing to > change the brand name on the printer. But in your case you've already done > that. So now do a search for brotherusa, go there and download their driver > installer, unpack it, run it sudo if needed. It will ask you for the model # > of your printer, enter it EXACTLY, the script will, if you've net access, > goto brothers site, download the exact driver your printer needs, install > it, integrating with cups perfectly but you will probably need to disable > cups-browsed as it will make the default driver the everywhere driver, > crippling 95% of the printers abilities. And from the machine the printer > is plugged into, and assuming browsed is stopped so you can use the brother > driver, it Just Works. > > However, if its to be shared, usable from other machines on your local home > network AND your other machines are also running bullseye, and some of my > arm stuff is, something is locking out the discovery of shares by cups, > hence my constant harping about it here. Other Buster machines Just Work > but in my case and to emphasize the point, an rpi4b running buster works but > no banana pi m2 running bullseye can find a printer for cups. But lpstat -t > on that same bpi running bullseye sees them all. Please give 'lpstat -t' for bpi51 (bullseye) and a buster machine. > I assume they can print, but thru an lp derivitive that means your Aunt > Tilly has to remember the exact name and all the options that go with it. > And Aunt Tilly will be back on windows next week. She, like I, just wants > HER printer to work. > > > My parents, who live some distance away have an HP inkjet printer. It > > works sometimes. Other times it doesn't. I get it set up so it's > > working and it might work for a while, but it will stop working for no > > reason. There might be several queues for the printer; some work and > > some just don't. A working queue will stop working for no discernible > > reason. Working queues will disappear, new queues will appear seemingly > > at random. The print system will default to an automatically provided > > queue that could never work, because it relies on some software > > component that is not installed.... etc... etc... > > > > Between my parents and my own system, I have spent 10s or 100s of hours > > trying to get a reliable printing system over decades, with many > > different printers. Maybe there were periods where printing worked OK. > > But I haven't managed to achieve reliable printing in the medium term. > > > > I read ESR https://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html, and my > > personal experience is that nothing much has changed in the "driverless" > > era. > > To me, its been a wholesale slauterhouse since cups was sold to Apple. > The only fix I can see will require that we as a world wide group, decide to > monetarily support a cups like fork, getting away from the if it doesn't > suit Apple, it doesn't happen, influence. TANSTAAFL folks. If you think the > peanuts are free, its time to look at the price of the beer. Coders like to > eat, good ones should be able to afford a longer ladder up the side of the > hog... I can easily afford a $25/anum fee. > What say you? Applle ceased any involvement with CUPS development and parted company with its Chief Printing Engineer a number of years ago. Debian CUPS is produced by a team led by the creator of CUPS. Your requested fix is in place :). -- Brian.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-08 06:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <Gt0Fz-7o4Z-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258035 |
On 5/7/23 12:48, Brian wrote: > On Sun 07 May 2023 at 11:26:05 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > >> On 5/6/23 19:29, Alex King wrote: >>> Printing on Linux is poor. CUPS is poor. It doesn't work for some (a >>> lot?) of people. >>> >>> I have a Brother HL-L2300D printer. It is connected to my (Debian >>> bullseye) workstation by USB. I have CUPS installed. >>> >>> My printer prints sometime. Other times, it spins up (makes a noise >>> like it is about to start printing), but nothing comes out. I can't get >>> any useful diagnostics to tell me where the problem might be. >>> >> There is a light at the end of this dark tunnel, IF you are willing to >> change the brand name on the printer. But in your case you've already done >> that. So now do a search for brotherusa, go there and download their driver >> installer, unpack it, run it sudo if needed. It will ask you for the model # >> of your printer, enter it EXACTLY, the script will, if you've net access, >> goto brothers site, download the exact driver your printer needs, install >> it, integrating with cups perfectly but you will probably need to disable >> cups-browsed as it will make the default driver the everywhere driver, >> crippling 95% of the printers abilities. And from the machine the printer >> is plugged into, and assuming browsed is stopped so you can use the brother >> driver, it Just Works. >> >> However, if its to be shared, usable from other machines on your local home >> network AND your other machines are also running bullseye, and some of my >> arm stuff is, something is locking out the discovery of shares by cups, >> hence my constant harping about it here. Other Buster machines Just Work >> but in my case and to emphasize the point, an rpi4b running buster works but >> no banana pi m2 running bullseye can find a printer for cups. But lpstat -t >> on that same bpi running bullseye sees them all. > > Please give 'lpstat -t' for bpi51 (bullseye) and a buster machine. gene@bpi51:~$ lpstat -t scheduler is running system default destination: PDF device for HLL2320D-RAW: ipp://192.168.71.3:631/printers/HLL2320D device for PDF: cups-pdf:/ HLL2320D-RAW accepting requests since Mon 01 May 2023 04:29:40 PM -05 PDF accepting requests since Fri 02 Dec 2022 11:13:10 PM -05 printer HLL2320D-RAW is idle. enabled since Mon 01 May 2023 04:29:40 PM -05 printer PDF is idle. enabled since Fri 02 Dec 2022 11:13:10 PM -05 That's new, but the other bigger mfc inkjet is missing, so I went to the ff screen, opened a tab and sent it to localhost:631, cups was running, clicking on printers got me only the local pdf generator. I didn't disturb it further as its driving a 3d printer, has ben since the wether cleared about 17:00 and will be busy doing that till around 13:00 tomorrow. making a pair of half-nuts for a woodworkers big leg vise, with a 24" long, 2" in diameter hard maple screw I designed for my own workbench. But I thought I might see if I could sell a dozen or so once I had it working. Unforch, and the driving force behind my building a printer farm, is the 3 weeks it takes to print the rest of it after I've made the screw on one of my milling machines, using gcode I wrote. That machine, bpi51, did not get updated friday because it was busy driving a printer. bpi54, which is an identical bpi, is running with nother but a bare btt octopus-pro board, did get an update friday which included a new avahi. gene@bpi54:~$ lpstat -t scheduler is running no system default destination device for Brother_HL-L2320D_series: usb://Brother/HL-L2320D%20series?serial=U63877H0N346913 device for Brother_MFC-J6920DW_photo: usb://Brother/MFC-J6920DW?serial=BROG5F229909 device for HLL2320D: usb://Brother/HL-L2320D%20series?serial=U63877H0N346913 device for MFCJ6920DW: usb://Brother/MFC-J6920DW?serial=BROG5F229909 Brother_HL-L2320D_series accepting requests since Thu 04 May 2023 06:24:04 AM EDT Brother_MFC-J6920DW_photo accepting requests since Thu 30 Mar 2023 09:16:43 AM EDT HLL2320D accepting requests since Thu 04 May 2023 06:24:04 AM EDT MFCJ6920DW accepting requests since Sun 26 Mar 2023 03:30:13 PM EDT printer Brother_HL-L2320D_series is idle. enabled since Thu 04 May 2023 06:24:04 AM EDT printer Brother_MFC-J6920DW_photo is idle. enabled since Thu 30 Mar 2023 09:16:43 AM EDT printer HLL2320D is idle. enabled since Thu 04 May 2023 06:24:04 AM EDT printer MFCJ6920DW is idle. enabled since Sun 26 Mar 2023 03:30:13 PM EDT as can be seen from its "lpstat -t" it shows all shares, but cups still can't see anything. I'm not sure if the pdf generator is installed [...] >> To me, its been a wholesale slauterhouse since cups was sold to Apple. >> The only fix I can see will require that we as a world wide group, decide to >> monetarily support a cups like fork, getting away from the if it doesn't >> suit Apple, it doesn't happen, influence. TANSTAAFL folks. If you think the >> peanuts are free, its time to look at the price of the beer. Coders like to >> eat, good ones should be able to afford a longer ladder up the side of the >> hog... I can easily afford a $25/anum fee. >> What say you? > > Apple ceased any involvement with CUPS development and parted company with > its Chief Printing Engineer a number of years ago. Debian CUPS is produced > by a team led by the creator of CUPS. Your requested fix is in place :). If so, (this is the first I've heard of it, and I've only known Michael since the late 1980's when we were both heavily involved in the os9 development, a mini unix that ran of the trs-80 color computers) where do I email now to be assured Michael will see it? Is there a new cups mailing list? Do you have any idea if that fix will be released for arm64 bullseye? I just checked bpi54, no updates available since the Friday update. Ditto for the intel busters here, but they're busters, so don't need the fix, they Just Work. Thanks Brian, take care and stay well. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-08 13:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <Gt7xo-7sbO-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258052 |
On Mon 08 May 2023 at 00:23:43 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On 5/7/23 12:48, Brian wrote: [...] > > Please give 'lpstat -t' for bpi51 (bullseye) and a buster machine. > gene@bpi51:~$ lpstat -t > scheduler is running > system default destination: PDF > device for HLL2320D-RAW: ipp://192.168.71.3:631/printers/HLL2320D > device for PDF: cups-pdf:/ Thanks. 'lpstat -t' only ever shows *local* printers. That is, printers that have been set up (manually in this case) on the local machine. It will never discover and show printers on the network. This was mentioned earlier in this thread, but you do not appear to appreciate its significance. To be clear: HLL2320D-RAW and PDF are local printers. We set up HLL2320D-RAW (which is a working printer) togetger. Should you wish to see *all* devices (local and on the network) us lpstat -e lpstat -l -e The second command was explained earlier in the thread. [...] > gene@bpi54:~$ lpstat -t > scheduler is running > no system default destination > device for Brother_HL-L2320D_series: > usb://Brother/HL-L2320D%20series?serial=U63877H0N346913 > device for Brother_MFC-J6920DW_photo: > usb://Brother/MFC-J6920DW?serial=BROG5F229909 > device for HLL2320D: usb://Brother/HL-L2320D%20series?serial=U63877H0N346913 > device for MFCJ6920DW: usb://Brother/MFC-J6920DW?serial=BROG5F229909 These are the local printers on bpi54. All connected by USB. All set up by you and all working Summary: Everything is as it should be. Your first mail has: > All of my bullseye machines are locked out, printer screen at > localhost:631 is empty, and no printers can be found and added. > > But open a shell, and type "lpstat -t" and it gets the full list of > available printers on that same bullseye machine whose cups output is > empty. The facts as expressed are OK. Your interpretation of them is sub-optimal. A lack of understanding about what localhost:631 and 'lpstat -t' show is the root of problem and colours everything you have written here.. [...] > > Apple ceased any involvement with CUPS development and parted company with > > its Chief Printing Engineer a number of years ago. Debian CUPS is produced > > by a team led by the creator of CUPS. Your requested fix is in place :). > > If so, (this is the first I've heard of it, and I've only known Michael > since the late 1980's when we were both heavily involved in the os9 > development, a mini unix that ran of the trs-80 color computers) where do I > email now to be assured Michael will see it? Is there a new cups mailing > list? Please see our wiki. > Do you have any idea if that fix will be released for arm64 bullseye? I just > checked bpi54, no updates available since the Friday update. Ditto for the > intel busters here, but they're busters, so don't need the fix, they Just > Work. I haven't a clue about arm64. I am not even sure that CUPS is the issue. You have a classical local printer set up. It works. There are three other printers that could be set up with the same technique. Remenber - you are the one who does not want a New Architecture setup. -- Brian.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-08 19:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <Gtcx3-7vkG-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258061 |
On 5/8/23 07:49, Brian wrote: > On Mon 08 May 2023 at 00:23:43 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > >> On 5/7/23 12:48, Brian wrote: > > [...] > >>> Please give 'lpstat -t' for bpi51 (bullseye) and a buster machine. > >> gene@bpi51:~$ lpstat -t >> scheduler is running >> system default destination: PDF >> device for HLL2320D-RAW: ipp://192.168.71.3:631/printers/HLL2320D >> device for PDF: cups-pdf:/ > > Thanks. > > 'lpstat -t' only ever shows *local* printers. That is, printers that have > been set up (manually in this case) on the local machine. It will never > discover and show printers on the network. This was mentioned earlier in > this thread, but you do not appear to appreciate its significance. > > To be clear: HLL2320D-RAW and PDF are local printers. We set up HLL2320D-RAW > (which is a working printer) togetger. Should you wish to see *all* devices > (local and on the network) us > > lpstat -e > lpstat -l -e > Aha! now the two bpi's see all shares, + add the pdf generator if its installed. The HLL2320D as seen by -t, is the result of our earlier test, it actually added the printer to the local lp world. But not to cups. I'll update bpi51 when the current part is finished, probably about an hour yet. Thanks Brian. > The second command was explained earlier in the thread. > > [...] > >> gene@bpi54:~$ lpstat -t >> scheduler is running >> no system default destination >> device for Brother_HL-L2320D_series: >> usb://Brother/HL-L2320D%20series?serial=U63877H0N346913 >> device for Brother_MFC-J6920DW_photo: >> usb://Brother/MFC-J6920DW?serial=BROG5F229909 >> device for HLL2320D: usb://Brother/HL-L2320D%20series?serial=U63877H0N346913 >> device for MFCJ6920DW: usb://Brother/MFC-J6920DW?serial=BROG5F229909 > > These are the local printers on bpi54. All connected by USB. All set up by > you and all working > > Summary: Everything is as it should be. > > Your first mail has: > > > All of my bullseye machines are locked out, printer screen at > > localhost:631 is empty, and no printers can be found and added. > > > > But open a shell, and type "lpstat -t" and it gets the full list of > > available printers on that same bullseye machine whose cups output is > > empty. > > The facts as expressed are OK. Your interpretation of them is sub-optimal. > A lack of understanding about what localhost:631 and 'lpstat -t' show is > the root of problem and colours everything you have written here.. > > [...] > >>> Apple ceased any involvement with CUPS development and parted company with >>> its Chief Printing Engineer a number of years ago. Debian CUPS is produced >>> by a team led by the creator of CUPS. Your requested fix is in place :). >> >> If so, (this is the first I've heard of it, and I've only known Michael >> since the late 1980's when we were both heavily involved in the os9 >> development, a mini unix that ran of the trs-80 color computers) where do I >> email now to be assured Michael will see it? Is there a new cups mailing >> list? > > Please see our wiki. > >> Do you have any idea if that fix will be released for arm64 bullseye? I just >> checked bpi54, no updates available since the Friday update. Ditto for the >> intel busters here, but they're busters, so don't need the fix, they Just >> Work. > > I haven't a clue about arm64. I am not even sure that CUPS is the issue. You > have a classical local printer set up. It works. There are three other printers > that could be set up with the same technique. Remenber - you are the one who > does not want a New Architecture setup. The big inkjet is well over 5 years old, and among other things the New Architecture does not recognize is it has two trays for paper source, always using the $0.12 a sheet glossy photo from the top tray. Imagine what it would cost me to print all 1330 some pages of the current linuxcnc user docs. Not to mention I'd have to reload that smaller tray about 14 times. Tain't gonna happen. And my ISP is having email probs its Monday. > Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-09 00:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <Gthdn-7ygT-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258078 |
On 5/8/23 16:57, gene heskett wrote: > On 5/8/23 07:49, Brian wrote: >> On Mon 08 May 2023 at 00:23:43 -0400, gene heskett wrote: >> >>> On 5/7/23 12:48, Brian wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>>> Please give 'lpstat -t' for bpi51 (bullseye) and a buster machine. >>> gene@bpi51:~$ lpstat -t >>> scheduler is running >>> system default destination: PDF >>> device for HLL2320D-RAW: ipp://192.168.71.3:631/printers/HLL2320D >>> device for PDF: cups-pdf:/ >> >> Thanks. >> >> 'lpstat -t' only ever shows *local* printers. That is, printers that have >> been set up (manually in this case) on the local machine. It will never >> discover and show printers on the network. This was mentioned earlier in >> this thread, but you do not appear to appreciate its significance. >> >> To be clear: HLL2320D-RAW and PDF are local printers. We set up >> HLL2320D-RAW >> (which is a working printer) togetger. Should you wish to see *all* >> devices >> (local and on the network) us >> >> lpstat -e >> lpstat -l -e >> > Aha! now the two bpi's see all shares, + add the pdf generator if its > installed. The HLL2320D as seen by -t, is the result of our earlier > test, it actually added the printer to the local lp world. But not to cups. > > I'll update bpi51 when the current part is finished, probably about an > hour yet. > And that updated 77 pkgs, but did not require a reboot. And no pkg changed anything about the cups blank printers discovered screen at localhost:631. And its back to making another part. Busy till around 2am local Thanks Brian. > >> The second command was explained earlier in the thread. >> >> [...] >> >>> gene@bpi54:~$ lpstat -t >>> scheduler is running >>> no system default destination >>> device for Brother_HL-L2320D_series: >>> usb://Brother/HL-L2320D%20series?serial=U63877H0N346913 >>> device for Brother_MFC-J6920DW_photo: >>> usb://Brother/MFC-J6920DW?serial=BROG5F229909 >>> device for HLL2320D: >>> usb://Brother/HL-L2320D%20series?serial=U63877H0N346913 >>> device for MFCJ6920DW: usb://Brother/MFC-J6920DW?serial=BROG5F229909 >> >> These are the local printers on bpi54. All connected by USB. All set >> up by >> you and all working >> >> Summary: Everything is as it should be. >> >> Your first mail has: >> >> > All of my bullseye machines are locked out, printer screen at >> > localhost:631 is empty, and no printers can be found and added. You are missing the point, lpstat is seeing them, but cups is not. That it seems to me, s/b where we should be concentrating our discovery efforts. FWIW reinstalling cups and cups-browsed has been done, made no difference that I could detect. Is there something I could put at the top of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf to make any failures or rejects generate meaningful msgs in /var/log/cups/error_log? >> > But open a shell, and type "lpstat -t" and it gets the full list of >> > available printers on that same bullseye machine whose cups >> output is >> > empty. >> >> The facts as expressed are OK. Your interpretation of them is >> sub-optimal. >> A lack of understanding about what localhost:631 and 'lpstat -t' show is >> the root of problem and colours everything you have written here.. >> >> [...] >>>> Apple ceased any involvement with CUPS development and parted >>>> company with >>>> its Chief Printing Engineer a number of years ago. Debian CUPS is >>>> produced >>>> by a team led by the creator of CUPS. Your requested fix is in place >>>> :). >>> >>> If so, (this is the first I've heard of it, and I've only known Michael >>> since the late 1980's when we were both heavily involved in the os9 >>> development, a mini unix that ran of the trs-80 color computers) >>> where do I >>> email now to be assured Michael will see it? Is there a new cups mailing >>> list? >> >> Please see our wiki. >> >>> Do you have any idea if that fix will be released for arm64 bullseye? >>> I just >>> checked bpi54, no updates available since the Friday update. Ditto >>> for the >>> intel busters here, but they're busters, so don't need the fix, they >>> Just >>> Work. >> >> I haven't a clue about arm64. I am not even sure that CUPS is the >> issue. You >> have a classical local printer set up. It works. There are three other >> printers >> that could be set up with the same technique. Remenber - you are the >> one who >> does not want a New Architecture setup. > > The big inkjet is well over 5 years old, and among other things the New > Architecture does not recognize is it has two trays for paper source, > always using the $0.12 a sheet glossy photo from the top tray. > > Imagine what it would cost me to print all 1330 some pages of the > current linuxcnc user docs. Not to mention I'd have to reload that > smaller tray about 14 times. Tain't gonna happen. > > And my ISP is having email probs its Monday. Took them till close to noon to find it. Thanks Brian. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-09 10:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GtqA1-7Ecu-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258061 |
On 5/8/23 07:49, Brian wrote: > On Mon 08 May 2023 at 00:23:43 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > Brian, I found the secret sauce. Armed with the knowledge that Mike had moved, I found his new site, and found the answer in 5 minutes under the "printer sharing" link. Something is broken when using a client.conf that contains the ServerName directive as it does not work from a hostname file lookup, but does work if the ServerName is the ipv4 address:631 Possibly the result of my system not having a working dhcpd except the relay in the router to my isp's dns. I think you have said resolv.conf Search directive doesn't work but nsswitch.conf was mentioned and there is a diff between this machine and one of the arms. So what do I put in nsswitch.conf to make cups search the hosts file first? I think that, with some PEBKAC has been the problem all along. Thanks Brian, take care & stay well. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-09 13:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GttxT-7FVs-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258092 |
On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 04:06:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > I think you have said resolv.conf Search directive doesn't work but > nsswitch.conf was mentioned and there is a diff between this machine and one > of the arms. So what do I put in nsswitch.conf to make cups search the hosts > file first? The bare minimum would be: hosts: files dns Mine contains this: hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns The "search" directive in /etc/resolv.conf is followed by a space-separated list of domain names. Yours should say: search coyote.den
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-09 22:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GtCrv-7Lbr-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258093 |
On 5/9/23 07:12, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 04:06:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: >> I think you have said resolv.conf Search directive doesn't work but >> nsswitch.conf was mentioned and there is a diff between this machine and one >> of the arms. So what do I put in nsswitch.conf to make cups search the hosts >> file first? > > The bare minimum would be: > > hosts: files dns > > Mine contains this: > > hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns and my bpi54 is: hosts: files mymachines dns myhostname > > The "search" directive in /etc/resolv.conf is followed by a space-separated > list of domain names. Yours should say: > > search coyote.den aha! again: was: nameserver 192.168.71.1 search hosts,nameserver Which is not space separated, thank you, I've got it fixed in 2 places now. I think. > . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-10 14:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GtQXw-7Um9-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258104 |
On Tue 09 May 2023 at 16:49:22 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On 5/9/23 07:12, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 04:06:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > I think you have said resolv.conf Search directive doesn't work but > > > nsswitch.conf was mentioned and there is a diff between this machine and one > > > of the arms. So what do I put in nsswitch.conf to make cups search the hosts > > > file first? > > > > The bare minimum would be: > > > > hosts: files dns > > > > Mine contains this: > > > > hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns > and my bpi54 is: > hosts: files mymachines dns myhostname bpi54 has two printers attached by USB. It also hosts four print queues that work from bpi54 and bpi51. You have a printing system that should continue working until trixie comes along. Then it will fall apart. So why this descent into GNU Name Service Switch (NSS) functionality when you are satisfied with the printing situation? Greg Wooledge's nsswitch.conf line is what would be expected on a machine having avahi-demon.service. You do not have avahi-daemon and libnss-mdns installed. That is fine. A descision has been made to create queues with vendor drivers on bpi54 manually. Your nsswitch.conf line implies libnss-mymacines and libnss-mymhostname are used. They have man pages to help you decide what parts they play on bpi54. What do you have on bpi51? -- Brian.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-10 16:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GtSFX-7Vto-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258113 |
On 5/10/23 08:17, Brian wrote: > On Tue 09 May 2023 at 16:49:22 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > >> On 5/9/23 07:12, Greg Wooledge wrote: >>> On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 04:06:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: >>>> I think you have said resolv.conf Search directive doesn't work but >>>> nsswitch.conf was mentioned and there is a diff between this machine and one >>>> of the arms. So what do I put in nsswitch.conf to make cups search the hosts >>>> file first? >>> >>> The bare minimum would be: >>> >>> hosts: files dns >>> >>> Mine contains this: >>> >>> hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns >> and my bpi54 is: >> hosts: files mymachines dns myhostname > > bpi54 has two printers attached by USB. It also hosts four print queues that work > from bpi54 and bpi51. You have a printing system that should continue working > until trixie comes along. Then it will fall apart. > > So why this descent into GNU Name Service Switch (NSS) functionality when you are > satisfied with the printing situation? > > Greg Wooledge's nsswitch.conf line is what would be expected on a machine having > avahi-demon.service. You do not have avahi-daemon and libnss-mdns installed. That > is fine. A descision has been made to create queues with vendor drivers on bpi54 > manually. > > Your nsswitch.conf line implies libnss-mymacines and libnss-mymhostname are used. > They have man pages to help you decide what parts they play on bpi54. They were not installed, and neither are 95% of the manpages. man-db is installed, pinfo is installed, neither has any knowledge of the missing man pages. > > What do you have on bpi51? bpi51 is busy, so bpi54 is being used, same iso installed both. Man pages apparently are one of armbian's casualties. And avahi* and cups-browsed has been reinstalled. When I went to bed last night, the printers were being listed on the localhost:631/printers screen IF there is an /etc/cups/client,conf containing the IP address:port of the shared printers, but disappears if the machine name is used, And w/o manpages it was not possible to find out that resolv.conf was using space separated names and I had comma separated them. Fixed now. > Also on the bpi's, running armbian, libnss-ldap is installed, which conflicts with installing libnss-*, but did install libnss-my*, and now the printers have disappeared again. That does not hold water. What the heck is going on now? doing a status request on the cups stuff shows that systemd restarted cups and nearly everything else I just checked, a few seconds after midnight last night, and now cups at localhost:631/printers is using a white cane again. Thanks Brian. Take care & stay well. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-10 16:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GtTiF-7VFN-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258121 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 10:04:47AM -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On 5/10/23 08:17, Brian wrote: [...] > > Your nsswitch.conf line implies libnss-mymacines and libnss-mymhostname are used. > > They have man pages to help you decide what parts they play on bpi54. > > They were not installed, and neither are 95% of the manpages. man-db is > installed, pinfo is installed, neither has any knowledge of the missing man > pages. ...but by now, you might know the trick: apt-file search libnss | grep man leads you to the packages "libnss-myhostname" and "libnss-mymachine" containing them. Cheers -- t
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-10 17:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GtTVo-7W8I-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258121 |
On Wed 10 May 2023 at 10:04:47 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On 5/10/23 08:17, Brian wrote: [...] > > Your nsswitch.conf line implies libnss-mymacines and libnss-mymhostname are used. > > They have man pages to help you decide what parts they play on bpi54. > > They were not installed, and neither are 95% of the manpages. man-db is > installed, pinfo is installed, neither has any knowledge of the missing man > pages. dpkg -L libnss-mymacines man nss-myhostname > > What do you have on bpi51? > > bpi51 is busy, so bpi54 is being used, same iso installed both. The same iso does not mean nsswitch.conf is the same on both. In fact, I think they are not identical. > Man pages apparently are one of armbian's casualties. And avahi* and > cups-browsed has been reinstalled. When I went to bed last night, the > printers were being listed on the localhost:631/printers screen IF there is > an /etc/cups/client,conf containing the IP address:port of the shared > printers, but disappears if the machine name is used, And w/o manpages it > was not possible to find out that resolv.conf was using space separated > names and I had comma separated them. Fixed now. Is /etc/cups/client,conf really, really needed? > Also on the bpi's, running armbian, libnss-ldap is installed, which > conflicts with installing libnss-*, but did install libnss-my*, and now the > printers have disappeared again. That does not hold water. What the heck is > going on now? I haven't any idea and do not claim the know anything about armbian and how it should deal with NSS. > doing a status request on the cups stuff shows that systemd restarted cups > and nearly everything else I just checked, a few seconds after midnight last > night, and now cups at localhost:631/printers is using a white cane again. The scheduler restarts itself every 24 hours. -- Brian.
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| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-10 19:20 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GtVDP-7Xda-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258127 |
On 5/10/23 11:29, Brian wrote: > On Wed 10 May 2023 at 10:04:47 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > >> On 5/10/23 08:17, Brian wrote: > > [...] > >>> Your nsswitch.conf line implies libnss-mymacines and libnss-mymhostname are used. >>> They have man pages to help you decide what parts they play on bpi54. >> >> They were not installed, and neither are 95% of the manpages. man-db is >> installed, pinfo is installed, neither has any knowledge of the missing man >> pages. > > dpkg -L libnss-mymacines > man nss-myhostname > >>> What do you have on bpi51? >> >> bpi51 is busy, so bpi54 is being used, same iso installed both. > > The same iso does not mean nsswitch.conf is the same on both. In fact, I think > they are not identical. > >> Man pages apparently are one of armbian's casualties. And avahi* and >> cups-browsed has been reinstalled. When I went to bed last night, the >> printers were being listed on the localhost:631/printers screen IF there is >> an /etc/cups/client,conf containing the IP address:port of the shared >> printers, but disappears if the machine name is used, And w/o manpages it >> was not possible to find out that resolv.conf was using space separated >> names and I had comma separated them. Fixed now. > > Is /etc/cups/client,conf really, really needed? > That is the first thing cups docs tell you to do, see "printer sharing" >> Also on the bpi's, running armbian, libnss-ldap is installed, which >> conflicts with installing libnss-*, but did install libnss-my*, and now the >> printers have disappeared again. That does not hold water. What the heck is >> going on now? > > I haven't any idea and do not claim the know anything about armbian and how > it should deal with NSS\ Since that comes from a debian arm64 repo. my first assumption is that its identical. >> doing a status request on the cups stuff shows that systemd restarted cups >> and nearly everything else I just checked, a few seconds after midnight last >> night, and now cups at localhost:631/printers is using a white cane again. > > The scheduler restarts itself every 24 hours. > Now, since my post earlier this morning, I restarted cups, no diff, Set reporting to debug, now getting 20k of noise in the error_log per disturbance. It claims that anytime it encounters the Server, this machine, that it cannot assign the address, but doesn't say why. Does that tell you anything. I will bump the debug to debug2 which logs everything. After lunch and a nap before I tackle a milling machine with a shorted home switch. Take care & stay well. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-05-10 20:30 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: repeat of previous question that has gone unansweredseveraltimes. |
| Message-ID | <GtWJz-7XP3-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #258128 |
On Wed 10 May 2023 at 13:18:07 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > On 5/10/23 11:29, Brian wrote: > > On Wed 10 May 2023 at 10:04:47 -0400, gene heskett wrote: > > > > > On 5/10/23 08:17, Brian wrote: > > > [...] > > Is /etc/cups/client,conf really, really needed? > > > That is the first thing cups docs tell you to do, see "printer sharing" A link would be ever so useful. > > > Also on the bpi's, running armbian, libnss-ldap is installed, which > > > conflicts with installing libnss-*, but did install libnss-my*, and now the > > > printers have disappeared again. That does not hold water. What the heck is > > > going on now? > > > > I haven't any idea and do not claim the know anything about armbian and how > > it should deal with NSS\ > > Since that comes from a debian arm64 repo. my first assumption is that its > identical. After appreciating that bpi51 has libnss-mdns installed, you might discard any assumption that nsswitch.conf on bpi54 has the same contents. -- Brian.
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