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Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation

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  Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-05-31 15:20 +0200
    Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-31 18:20 +0200
      Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-05-31 21:10 +0200
        Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-06-01 06:30 +0200
          Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-06-01 13:40 +0200
            Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-06-01 21:20 +0200
            Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-06-01 22:40 +0200
        Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-06-01 15:20 +0200
    SUCESSFUL INSTALL - was [Discovering DHCP hostname during original  system installation] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-06-02 16:00 +0200
      Re: SUCESSFUL INSTALL - was [Discovering DHCP hostname during  original system installation] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-06-02 17:10 +0200
        Re: SUCESSFUL INSTALL - was [Discovering DHCP hostname during  original system installation] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-02 18:00 +0200

#248611 — Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation

I'm using firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso to install Debian onto a 
Lenovo T510 [Thinkpad].

I know the netinstaller works on this laptop as I have done a successful 
install when within range of of local library's wifi and the installer 
is successfully detecting multiple local wifi sources.

I am doing a fresh install from home using an Alcatel Linkzone to 
connect to my T-mobile account. I have had no problems doing this with 
standard netinstallers.

After an install over library wifi the system had no problem connecting 
to the internet via the Linkzone.

Help please.
TIA

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#248612

On Tue 31 May 2022 at 08:13:57 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> I'm using firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso to install Debian onto a
> Lenovo T510 [Thinkpad].

✓

> I know the netinstaller works on this laptop as I have done a
> successful install when within range of of local library's wifi and
> the installer is successfully detecting multiple local wifi sources.

Which netinstaller? In the next paragraph, you use the term "standard
netinstaller". Does this mean one without firmware?

> I am doing a fresh install from home using an Alcatel Linkzone to
> connect to my T-mobile account. I have had no problems doing this with
> standard netinstallers.

? That seems to be a new interpretation of the thread:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00571.html

What's unsaid here is /how/ you use your Alcatel Linkzone to connect.

> After an install over library wifi the system had no problem
> connecting to the internet via the Linkzone.

So what's your question? And if it's meant to be the Subject line,
I don't see any relationship with the rest of the post.

My question is why are you trying to install it again? And if your
problem, whatever it is, is to do with the firmware version (I can't
see why extra packages would trip anything up), why do you need it:
you've already got all those packages at home anyway.

Cheers,
David.

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#248613

On 05/31/2022 11:13 AM, David Wright wrote:
> On Tue 31 May 2022 at 08:13:57 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I'm using firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso to install Debian onto a
>> Lenovo T510 [Thinkpad].
> 
> ✓
> 
>> I know the netinstaller works on this laptop as I have done a
>> successful install when within range of of local library's wifi and
>> the installer is successfully detecting multiple local wifi sources.
> 
> Which netinstaller?

The one *STATED* in the first sentence!

> In the next paragraph, you use the term "standard
> netinstaller". Does this mean one without firmware?

Of course!

> 
>> I am doing a fresh install from home using an Alcatel Linkzone to
>> connect to my T-mobile account. I have had no problems doing this with
>> standard netinstallers.
> 
> ? That seems to be a new interpretation of the thread:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00571.html

 From reading https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00603.html 
in that thread, I don't think so. That thread referred ti a standard 
[i.e. free] netinst iso. This case is using the non-free firmware. I 
will have to carefully read the entire thread to see if it has point(s) 
in common.


> 
> What's unsaid here is /how/ you use your Alcatel Linkzone to connect.

As I use it daily - it effectively reacts as a traditional modem [the 
wifi aspect disabled].


> 
>> After an install over library wifi the system had no problem
>> connecting to the internet via the Linkzone.
> /
> So what's your question? And if it's meant to be the Subject line,
> I don't see any relationship with the rest of the post.

My entire problem is in the context of running the installer.


> 
> My question is why are you trying to install it again?

'Cause I want a very different OS configuration. This Thinkpad is a 
test-bed machine.

> And if your
> problem, whatever it is, is to do with the firmware version (I can't
> see why extra packages would trip anything up), why do you need it:
> you've already got all those packages at home anyway.
> 

HUH? ?? ???


> Cheers,
> David.
> 
> 
> 

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#248619

On Tue 31 May 2022 at 14:00:51 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/31/2022 11:13 AM, David Wright wrote:
> > On Tue 31 May 2022 at 08:13:57 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > I'm using firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso to install Debian onto a
> > > Lenovo T510 [Thinkpad].
> > 
> > ✓
> > 
> > > I know the netinstaller works on this laptop as I have done a
> > > successful install when within range of of local library's wifi and
> > > the installer is successfully detecting multiple local wifi sources.
> > 
> > Which netinstaller?
> 
> The one *STATED* in the first sentence!

Demonstrative pronouns help.

> > In the next paragraph, you use the term "standard
> > netinstaller". Does this mean one without firmware?
> 
> Of course!

Ok, usually called official here. /My/ standard installer is a firmware
one, as the official ones are a waste of download bandwidth for me.
They only work for a couple of my machines.

> > > I am doing a fresh install from home using an Alcatel Linkzone to
> > > connect to my T-mobile account. I have had no problems doing this with
> > > standard netinstallers.
> > 
> > ? That seems to be a new interpretation of the thread:
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00571.html
> 
> From reading
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00603.html in that
> thread, I don't think so. That thread referred ti a standard [i.e.
> free] netinst iso. This case is using the non-free firmware. I will
> have to carefully read the entire thread to see if it has point(s) in
> common.

Well, if you have successfully installed at /home/ using the /Alcatel/
and with an /official installer/, then the same success is expected
with the firmware installer, whose difference is just extra packages
in the pool.

> > What's unsaid here is /how/ you use your Alcatel Linkzone to connect.
> 
> As I use it daily - it effectively reacts as a traditional modem [the
> wifi aspect disabled].

Well, disabling wifi (not revealed in your OP) was what gave problems
that caused you to post here in the past. The third paragraph in this
thread's OP implies that these problems have been overcome, and that
the current thread might be something about official vs firmware
rather than, say wifi vs ethernet in the normal scenario, or wifi vs
some sort of ?USB link in your case.

Is that fair, and am I correct in pointing out that you still haven't
stated how the laptop is connected to the internet, but that it's not
with a cat5 cable.

> > > After an install over library wifi the system had no problem
> > > connecting to the internet via the Linkzone.
> > /
> > So what's your question? And if it's meant to be the Subject line,
> > I don't see any relationship with the rest of the post.
> 
> My entire problem is in the context of running the installer.

Yes, I know you have a problem. And "install" is in the Subject line,
and peppered throughout the OP. Saying you have an installation
problem is not a question. It's the old "What did you expect/observe"
and "Why did they differ".

> > My question is why are you trying to install it again?
> 
> 'Cause I want a very different OS configuration. This Thinkpad is a
> test-bed machine.
> 
> > And if your
> > problem, whatever it is, is to do with the firmware version (I can't
> > see why extra packages would trip anything up), why do you need it:
> > you've already got all those packages at home anyway.
> 
> HUH? ?? ???

If you're installing with a firmware netinst, it has the firmware in it.
If you're installing with an official netinst, you've got the firmware
packages in one of the firmware netinsts that you've used in the past.
If the laptop has another installation of Debian in a different
partition, then the firmware it needs is going to be in that partition's
/lib/firmware.

Judging from the likelihood that you've installed Debian more times
than any other regular on the list, I reckon you can find the firmware
for your machines whenever you need to.

That point clarified, I still don't see a hint of a question,
particularly one that bears any relevance to the Subject line.

Cheers,
David.

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#248625

On 05/31/2022 11:20 PM, David Wright wrote:
> On Tue 31 May 2022 at 14:00:51 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 05/31/2022 11:13 AM, David Wright wrote:
>>> On Tue 31 May 2022 at 08:13:57 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> I'm using firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso to install Debian onto a
>>>> Lenovo T510 [Thinkpad].
>>>
>>> ✓
>>>
>>>> I know the netinstaller works on this laptop as I have done a
>>>> successful install when within range of of local library's wifi and
>>>> the installer is successfully detecting multiple local wifi sources.
>>>
>>> Which netinstaller?
>>
>> The one *STATED* in the first sentence!
> 
> Demonstrative pronouns help.

Yep. I realized that as soon as I read your reply ;{
My writing skills have been a problem since school days back in 50's.

> 
>>> In the next paragraph, you use the term "standard
>>> netinstaller". Does this mean one without firmware?
>>
>> Of course!
> 
> Ok, usually called official here. /My/ standard installer is a firmware
> one, as the official ones are a waste of download bandwidth for me.
> They only work for a couple of my machines.
> 
>>>> I am doing a fresh install from home using an Alcatel Linkzone to
>>>> connect to my T-mobile account. I have had no problems doing this with
>>>> standard netinstallers.
>>>
>>> ? That seems to be a new interpretation of the thread:
>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00571.html
>>
>>  From reading
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00603.html in that
>> thread, I don't think so.

The key sentence in that post is:
      "I just discovered that one of my problems [selecting a Grub menu
       entry resulting in an infinite loop until Linkzone unplugged]
       had been solved at Debian 10.7 or earlier."

> That thread referred to a standard [i.e.
>> free] netinst iso. This case is using the non-free firmware. I will
>> have to carefully read the entire thread to see if it has point(s) in
>> common.
> 
> Well, if you have successfully installed at /home/ using the /Alcatel/
> and with an /official installer/, then the same success is expected
> with the firmware installer, whose difference is just extra packages
> in the pool.

I had assumed so [but *not* known]. That's why I quoted the significant 
sentence from the sub-thread above. Sometime circa Squeeze or later 
there appears to have been a subtle change in how/when[?] a fully 
installed Debian initializes a connected intelligent USB device [i.e. 
the Alcatel]. I don't have enough background to say more.
> 
>>> What's unsaid here is /how/ you use your Alcatel Linkzone to connect.
>>
>> As I use it daily - it effectively reacts as a traditional modem [the
>> wifi aspect disabled].
> 
> Well, disabling wifi (not revealed in your OP) was what gave problems
> that caused you to post here in the past.

*NO*!
You are assuming commonality of hardware/software/goals/other over the 
last decade that simply does not exist. There is also an unwarranted 
assumption that I resemble a "normal" Debian user. Though of late I've 
tended to use a particular machine - I have a half dozen available.

The the _current_ install process is on a machine explicitly dedicated 
to learning by experimentation. It has had at least a dozen full 
installs from scratch - no more than 3 coexisting at a time.

I religiously avoid any networking of my personal machines.
Up to this current experiment I have avoided any intentional use of 
WiFi. This has been made easier by the majority of my machines requiring 
non-free drivers.

> The third paragraph in this
> thread's OP implies that these problems have been overcome, and that
> the current thread might be something about official vs firmware
> rather than, say wifi vs ethernet in the normal scenario, or wifi vs
> some sort of ?USB link in your case.

No ;/
I tried to succinctly  state MY topic in the Subject line.
When The DHCP auto-detection during install fails,
   "How do I manually discover DHCP hostname(s)?"

> 
> Is that fair, and am I correct in pointing out that you still haven't
> stated how the laptop is connected to the internet,

The Alcatel [with WiFi disabled] is physically plugged into a USB port.
To the unsophisticated user there is no way to distinguish it from a 
modem which has auto-dialed a specific server.

> but that it's not
> with a cat5 cable.
> 
>>>> After an install over library wifi the system had no problem
>>>> connecting to the internet via the Linkzone.
>>> /
>>> So what's your question? And if it's meant to be the Subject line,
>>> I don't see any relationship with the rest of the post.
>>
>> My entire problem is in the context of running the installer.
> 
> Yes, I know you have a problem. And "install" is in the Subject line,
> and peppered throughout the OP. Saying you have an installation
> problem is not a question. It's the old "What did you expect/observe"
> and "Why did they differ".
> 
>>> My question is why are you trying to install it again?


As stated in this post the particular machine is dedicated to 
EXPERIMENTATION. The goal of the experimentation is to be able to 
describe how the Debian installation process could simultaneously be 
simpler and more versatile. [Decades in engineering support (hardware 
not software) informs me that is not easy ;]



>>
>> 'Cause I want a very different OS configuration. This Thinkpad is a
>> test-bed machine.
>>
>>> And if your
>>> problem, whatever it is, is to do with the firmware version (I can't
>>> see why extra packages would trip anything up), why do you need it:
>>> you've already got all those packages at home anyway.
>>
>> HUH? ?? ???
> 
> If you're installing with a firmware netinst, it has the firmware in it.
> If you're installing with an official netinst, you've got the firmware
> packages in one of the firmware netinsts that you've used in the past.
> If the laptop has another installation of Debian in a different
> partition, then the firmware it needs is going to be in that partition's
> /lib/firmware.
> 
> Judging from the likelihood that you've installed Debian more times
> than any other regular on the list, I reckon you can find the firmware
> for your machines whenever you need to.
> 
> That point clarified, I still don't see a hint of a question,
> particularly one that bears any relevance to the Subject line.

I tried to explain that above.
Did I succeed at all?

> 
> Cheers,
> David.
> 
> 
> 

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#248644

On Wed 01 Jun 2022 at 06:32:07 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

[...]

> As stated in this post the particular machine is dedicated to
> EXPERIMENTATION. The goal of the experimentation is to be able to describe
> how the Debian installation process could simultaneously be simpler and more
> versatile. [Decades in engineering support (hardware not software) informs
> me that is not easy ;]

Perhaps it is not too easy, but that could be because d-i is already
versatile enough to accomodate changes. Making it simpler? Have you
any suggestions after carrying out your recent experimental regime?

-- 
Brian

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#248646

On Wed 01 Jun 2022 at 06:32:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/31/2022 11:20 PM, David Wright wrote:
> > On Tue 31 May 2022 at 14:00:51 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > On 05/31/2022 11:13 AM, David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Tue 31 May 2022 at 08:13:57 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:

> [ … ] There is also an unwarranted
> assumption that I resemble a "normal" Debian user.

If I'm the one who's meant to be assuming, nothing could be further
from the truth.

> Though of late I've
> tended to use a particular machine - I have a half dozen available.
> 
> The the _current_ install process is on a machine explicitly dedicated
> to learning by experimentation. It has had at least a dozen full
> installs from scratch - no more than 3 coexisting at a time.

Yes, that's why I presumed that any firmware requirement could be
supplied by yourself, from one of your installations at the very least.

> I religiously avoid any networking of my personal machines.
> Up to this current experiment I have avoided any intentional use of
> WiFi. This has been made easier by the majority of my machines
> requiring non-free drivers.

Again, the OP never made any mention of this.

> I tried to succinctly  state MY topic in the Subject line.
> When The DHCP auto-detection during install fails,
>   "How do I manually discover DHCP [server] hostname(s)?"

Ah, now, I recognise /that/ as a question.

> > Is that fair, and am I correct in pointing out that you still haven't
> > stated how the laptop is connected to the internet,
> 
> The Alcatel [with WiFi disabled] is physically plugged into a USB port.
> To the unsophisticated user there is no way to distinguish it from a
> modem which has auto-dialed a specific server.
> 
> > but that it's not
> > with a cat5 cable.

> As stated in this post the particular machine is dedicated to
> EXPERIMENTATION. The goal of the experimentation is to be able to
> describe how the Debian installation process could simultaneously be
> simpler and more versatile. [Decades in engineering support (hardware
> not software) informs me that is not easy ;]

Yes, but all too often, we are given a tiny glimpse of your
experiment, and then expected to supply fixes and reading lists
precisely relevant to whatever your experiment is meant to be doing.

> Did I succeed at all?

This time. Well, the way I would tackle this problem is
to run dhcp_probe on the interface name given by   ip a,
from which I'd get a dotted quad, like 192.168.1.1.

Then I'd run   host 192.168.1.1   and would get a result like
1.1.168.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.routerlogin.com.
I think in your case you'd probably get mobile.hotspot—perhaps.

I'm not sure what use that is to you. You can get that domain
out of the instruction manual. IIRC my router answers to the
example I gave, but I always use the hostname that I set up
in my /etc/hosts, because I have two routers from the same
manufacturer, so www.routerlogin.com would be ambiguous. Or
I can use the dotted quads themselves, ….1 and ….2.

But that's all in aid of logging in and configuring them,
not for when I'm asking them (one, actually) for DHCP service.

AFAIK, the hostname of a DHCP server is not particularly useful
to you, in that the negotiations are commenced by the client
broadcasting over the link, to which the server should respond.
(I take it you're not trying to run a DHCP server yourself on
one of your machines.) In all the joints in all the towns in
all the world, I don't recall ever finding out what the
hostnames of their DHCP servers were.

But I know nothing about how these negotiations take place on
your USB connection. Do you see them progressing, or failing,
in your daemon.log, as I do?

(ToD Host) dhclient[531]: DHCPDISCOVER on enp3s0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 12
(ToD Host) sh[531]: DHCPDISCOVER on enp3s0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 12
(ToD Host) dhclient[531]: DHCPOFFER of 192.168.1.14 from 192.168.1.1
(ToD Host) sh[531]: DHCPOFFER of 192.168.1.14 from 192.168.1.1
(ToD Host) sh[531]: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.14 on enp3s0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67
(ToD Host) dhclient[531]: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.14 on enp3s0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67
(ToD Host) dhclient[531]: DHCPACK of 192.168.1.14 from 192.168.1.1
(ToD Host) sh[531]: DHCPACK of 192.168.1.14 from 192.168.1.1
(ToD Host) avahi-daemon[568]: Joining mDNS multicast group on interface enp3s0.IPv4 with address 192.168.1.14.
(ToD Host) avahi-daemon[568]: New relevant interface enp3s0.IPv4 for mDNS.
(ToD Host) avahi-daemon[568]: Registering new address record for 192.168.1.14 on enp3s0.IPv4.

Cheers,
David.

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#248627

On 05/31/2022 02:00 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:

*SNIP*
> 
>>
>>> I am doing a fresh install from home using an Alcatel Linkzone to
>>> connect to my T-mobile account. I have had no problems doing this with
>>> standard netinstallers.
>>
>> ? That seems to be a new interpretation of the thread:
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00571.html
> 
>  From reading https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00603.html 
> in that thread, I don't think so. That thread referred ti a standard 
> [i.e. free] netinst iso. This case is using the non-free firmware. I 
> will have to carefully read the entire thread to see if it has point(s) 
> in common.

I've a dozen more posts to (re)read in the thread.
I'm beginning to suspect appreciation of comments about "CDC Ethernet" 
will be key. [Especially posts by Tixy]
I've at least a dozen web references marked for "CDC Ethernet".
I have information overload. Suspect meaningful comprehension will take 
a couple of days ;/
More later.

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#248666 — SUCESSFUL INSTALL - was [Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation]

On 05/31/2022 08:13 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I'm using firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso to install Debian onto a 
> Lenovo T510 [Thinkpad].
> 
> I know the netinstaller works on this laptop as I have done a successful 
> install when within range of of local library's wifi and the installer 
> is successfully detecting multiple local wifi sources.
> 
> I am doing a fresh install from home using an Alcatel Linkzone to 
> connect to my T-mobile account. I have had no problems doing this with 
> standard netinstallers.
> 
> After an install over library wifi the system had no problem connecting 
> to the internet via the Linkzone.
> 
> Help please.
> TIA

This is just a status report.
The above referenced installer *WILL* work when the target machine is 
connected to the internet via an Alcatel Linkzone.

The failed installs were evidently triggered by the immediately previous 
Linkzone usage history. I should be able to write a test procedure to 
prove/disprove my theory. The decades spent in hardware testing gave me 
practice in procedure writing. [I just don't have much software 
background.] I hope to have the procedure written and proven by early 
next week.

I still owe David a response to his last post.

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#248668 — Re: SUCESSFUL INSTALL - was [Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation]

On Thu 02 Jun 2022 at 08:53:12 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 05/31/2022 08:13 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > I'm using firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso to install Debian onto
> > a Lenovo T510 [Thinkpad].
> > 
> > I know the netinstaller works on this laptop as I have done a
> > successful install when within range of of local library's wifi
> > and the installer is successfully detecting multiple local wifi
> > sources.
> > 
> > I am doing a fresh install from home using an Alcatel Linkzone to
> > connect to my T-mobile account. I have had no problems doing this
> > with standard netinstallers.
> > 
> > After an install over library wifi the system had no problem
> > connecting to the internet via the Linkzone.
> 
> This is just a status report.
> The above referenced installer *WILL* work when the target machine is
> connected to the internet via an Alcatel Linkzone.
> 
> The failed installs were evidently triggered by the immediately
> previous Linkzone usage history.

So it would appear that these unsupported statements:

. it effectively reacts as a traditional modem

. The Alcatel [with WiFi disabled] is physically plugged into a USB port.
  To the unsophisticated user there is no way to distinguish it from a
  modem which has auto-dialed a specific server.

have been contradicted by observation.

> I still owe David a response to his last post.

No need. The above clears up the point made in the body of your OP,
and I have nothing more to add on the Subject line, as what I've
already posted pretty much exhausts my knowledge of DHCP.

Cheers,
David.

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#248675 — Re: SUCESSFUL INSTALL - was [Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation]

On 2022-06-02, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I still owe David a response to his last post.
>
> No need. The above clears up the point made in the body of your OP,
> and I have nothing more to add on the Subject line, as what I've
> already posted pretty much exhausts my knowledge of DHCP.

People do usually suggest that you don't put your question in the
Subject line but rather in the body.  Of course, "Discovering DHCP
hostname during original system installation" isn't a question, either
(not that I understand what the dhcp hostname could possibly have to do
with anything if it was indeed one).

> Cheers, David.
>
>

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