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Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation

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On 05/31/2022 11:20 PM, David Wright wrote:
> On Tue 31 May 2022 at 14:00:51 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 05/31/2022 11:13 AM, David Wright wrote:
>>> On Tue 31 May 2022 at 08:13:57 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>> I'm using firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso to install Debian onto a
>>>> Lenovo T510 [Thinkpad].
>>>
>>> ✓
>>>
>>>> I know the netinstaller works on this laptop as I have done a
>>>> successful install when within range of of local library's wifi and
>>>> the installer is successfully detecting multiple local wifi sources.
>>>
>>> Which netinstaller?
>>
>> The one *STATED* in the first sentence!
> 
> Demonstrative pronouns help.

Yep. I realized that as soon as I read your reply ;{
My writing skills have been a problem since school days back in 50's.

> 
>>> In the next paragraph, you use the term "standard
>>> netinstaller". Does this mean one without firmware?
>>
>> Of course!
> 
> Ok, usually called official here. /My/ standard installer is a firmware
> one, as the official ones are a waste of download bandwidth for me.
> They only work for a couple of my machines.
> 
>>>> I am doing a fresh install from home using an Alcatel Linkzone to
>>>> connect to my T-mobile account. I have had no problems doing this with
>>>> standard netinstallers.
>>>
>>> ? That seems to be a new interpretation of the thread:
>>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00571.html
>>
>>  From reading
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/10/msg00603.html in that
>> thread, I don't think so.

The key sentence in that post is:
      "I just discovered that one of my problems [selecting a Grub menu
       entry resulting in an infinite loop until Linkzone unplugged]
       had been solved at Debian 10.7 or earlier."

> That thread referred to a standard [i.e.
>> free] netinst iso. This case is using the non-free firmware. I will
>> have to carefully read the entire thread to see if it has point(s) in
>> common.
> 
> Well, if you have successfully installed at /home/ using the /Alcatel/
> and with an /official installer/, then the same success is expected
> with the firmware installer, whose difference is just extra packages
> in the pool.

I had assumed so [but *not* known]. That's why I quoted the significant 
sentence from the sub-thread above. Sometime circa Squeeze or later 
there appears to have been a subtle change in how/when[?] a fully 
installed Debian initializes a connected intelligent USB device [i.e. 
the Alcatel]. I don't have enough background to say more.
> 
>>> What's unsaid here is /how/ you use your Alcatel Linkzone to connect.
>>
>> As I use it daily - it effectively reacts as a traditional modem [the
>> wifi aspect disabled].
> 
> Well, disabling wifi (not revealed in your OP) was what gave problems
> that caused you to post here in the past.

*NO*!
You are assuming commonality of hardware/software/goals/other over the 
last decade that simply does not exist. There is also an unwarranted 
assumption that I resemble a "normal" Debian user. Though of late I've 
tended to use a particular machine - I have a half dozen available.

The the _current_ install process is on a machine explicitly dedicated 
to learning by experimentation. It has had at least a dozen full 
installs from scratch - no more than 3 coexisting at a time.

I religiously avoid any networking of my personal machines.
Up to this current experiment I have avoided any intentional use of 
WiFi. This has been made easier by the majority of my machines requiring 
non-free drivers.

> The third paragraph in this
> thread's OP implies that these problems have been overcome, and that
> the current thread might be something about official vs firmware
> rather than, say wifi vs ethernet in the normal scenario, or wifi vs
> some sort of ?USB link in your case.

No ;/
I tried to succinctly  state MY topic in the Subject line.
When The DHCP auto-detection during install fails,
   "How do I manually discover DHCP hostname(s)?"

> 
> Is that fair, and am I correct in pointing out that you still haven't
> stated how the laptop is connected to the internet,

The Alcatel [with WiFi disabled] is physically plugged into a USB port.
To the unsophisticated user there is no way to distinguish it from a 
modem which has auto-dialed a specific server.

> but that it's not
> with a cat5 cable.
> 
>>>> After an install over library wifi the system had no problem
>>>> connecting to the internet via the Linkzone.
>>> /
>>> So what's your question? And if it's meant to be the Subject line,
>>> I don't see any relationship with the rest of the post.
>>
>> My entire problem is in the context of running the installer.
> 
> Yes, I know you have a problem. And "install" is in the Subject line,
> and peppered throughout the OP. Saying you have an installation
> problem is not a question. It's the old "What did you expect/observe"
> and "Why did they differ".
> 
>>> My question is why are you trying to install it again?


As stated in this post the particular machine is dedicated to 
EXPERIMENTATION. The goal of the experimentation is to be able to 
describe how the Debian installation process could simultaneously be 
simpler and more versatile. [Decades in engineering support (hardware 
not software) informs me that is not easy ;]



>>
>> 'Cause I want a very different OS configuration. This Thinkpad is a
>> test-bed machine.
>>
>>> And if your
>>> problem, whatever it is, is to do with the firmware version (I can't
>>> see why extra packages would trip anything up), why do you need it:
>>> you've already got all those packages at home anyway.
>>
>> HUH? ?? ???
> 
> If you're installing with a firmware netinst, it has the firmware in it.
> If you're installing with an official netinst, you've got the firmware
> packages in one of the firmware netinsts that you've used in the past.
> If the laptop has another installation of Debian in a different
> partition, then the firmware it needs is going to be in that partition's
> /lib/firmware.
> 
> Judging from the likelihood that you've installed Debian more times
> than any other regular on the list, I reckon you can find the firmware
> for your machines whenever you need to.
> 
> That point clarified, I still don't see a hint of a question,
> particularly one that bears any relevance to the Subject line.

I tried to explain that above.
Did I succeed at all?

> 
> Cheers,
> David.
> 
> 
> 

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Thread

Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-05-31 15:20 +0200
  Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-31 18:20 +0200
    Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-05-31 21:10 +0200
      Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-06-01 06:30 +0200
        Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-06-01 13:40 +0200
          Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-06-01 21:20 +0200
          Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-06-01 22:40 +0200
      Re: Discovering DHCP hostname during original system installation Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-06-01 15:20 +0200
  SUCESSFUL INSTALL - was [Discovering DHCP hostname during original  system installation] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-06-02 16:00 +0200
    Re: SUCESSFUL INSTALL - was [Discovering DHCP hostname during  original system installation] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-06-02 17:10 +0200
      Re: SUCESSFUL INSTALL - was [Discovering DHCP hostname during  original system installation] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-02 18:00 +0200

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