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Groups > linux.debian.user > #248090 > unrolled thread

google account say it will no longer deliver email

Started byFero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com>
First post2022-05-11 15:30 +0200
Last post2022-06-04 23:10 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 105 — 30 participants

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  google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 15:30 +0200
    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2022-05-11 15:40 +0200
    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 16:40 +0200
    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-11 20:00 +0200
      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-11 20:10 +0200
      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 20:10 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-11 20:20 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 20:50 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Virgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee> - 2022-05-12 12:10 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-12 15:30 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-12 15:30 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-05-12 15:40 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Virgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee> - 2022-05-12 20:10 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-12 21:00 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Virgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee> - 2022-05-13 08:00 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-05-13 01:10 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "tv.debian" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> - 2022-05-13 01:40 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 02:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-13 07:20 +0200
                  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-13 11:40 +0200
                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-13 13:40 +0200
                      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-13 13:50 +0200
                        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-13 14:10 +0200
                          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-13 17:20 +0200
                  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2022-05-13 14:50 +0200
                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-13 19:30 +0200
                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-05-14 05:10 +0200
                      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-14 07:30 +0200
                        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-05-16 15:20 +0200
                      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-05-16 15:20 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-05-14 04:50 +0200
                  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-14 07:30 +0200
                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 13:50 +0200
                      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-14 15:30 +0200
                        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 18:40 +0200
                        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 20:50 +0200
                          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-14 21:00 +0200
                            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 21:30 +0200
                              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-15 06:40 +0200
                                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-05-15 14:00 +0200
                                  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-15 15:50 +0200
                          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-05-14 22:20 +0200
                  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-14 11:00 +0200
                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email tomas@tuxteam.de - 2022-05-14 11:30 +0200
                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-14 11:30 +0200
                      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-14 14:10 +0200
                        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 15:10 +0200
                          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-16 05:40 +0200
                            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-16 10:10 +0200
                              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-16 12:00 +0200
                                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-16 14:40 +0200
                            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2022-05-16 13:10 +0200
                            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-16 15:40 +0200
                              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-16 18:00 +0200
                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 14:10 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-06-01 19:10 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 19:50 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-06-01 20:40 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email nemo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 17:20 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-06-02 20:10 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <paulf@quillandmouse.com> - 2022-06-02 20:30 +0200
                  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 20:40 +0200
                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-04 14:00 +0200
                      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-04 14:20 +0200
                        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-04 16:30 +0200
                          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-04 16:50 +0200
                            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-04 19:50 +0200
                        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-04 16:30 +0200
                      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-04 15:50 +0200
                        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-04 16:00 +0200
                          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-04 19:30 +0200
                            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-04 19:50 +0200
                              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-08 03:40 +0200
                                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-08 06:50 +0200
                                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-06-08 14:50 +0200
                                  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-08 18:00 +0200
                                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-08 18:20 +0200
                                      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-06-08 18:30 +0200
                                        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-08 19:20 +0200
                      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-04 16:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-06-03 21:00 +0200
    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-11 20:30 +0200
      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 21:00 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Siard <shiems@mailbox.org> - 2022-05-11 22:00 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2022-05-12 04:00 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-11 22:20 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 22:30 +0200
    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-04 21:00 +0200
      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-06-04 21:10 +0200
      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2022-06-04 21:10 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-04 22:10 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2022-06-04 22:40 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-04 22:50 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Edwin Zimmerman <edwin@plainemail.net> - 2022-06-04 23:10 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-04 23:40 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email wec <wec@upwardmail.net> - 2022-06-04 23:10 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-04 23:20 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2022-06-05 02:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-05 02:50 +0200
                  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2022-06-05 03:00 +0200
                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2022-06-05 03:10 +0200
                      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-05 06:10 +0200
                    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-05 03:20 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-06-05 03:50 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Alain D D Williams <addw@phcomp.co.uk> - 2022-06-04 23:10 +0200

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#248090 — google account say it will no longer deliver email

FromFero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com>
Date2022-05-11 15:30 +0200
Subjectgoogle account say it will no longer deliver email
Message-ID<ElUzD-eLCT-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
I got a warning from google that my account will be discontinued.

> On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure sign-in
> technology
> To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support the use of
> third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your Google Account
> using only your username and password. Instead, you’ll need to sign in
> using Sign in with Google

 I have used a google account to read email from mailing lists. I am using
fetchmail to get emails from google. Now it says it will discontinue this
access to my mail. I do not want to use webmail (I need to receive my mail
on my computer). Is there a way to somehow download emails from gmail
as I used to after May 30?

Thanks

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#248091

FromEike Lantzsch ZP6CGE <zp6cge@gmx.net>
Date2022-05-11 15:40 +0200
Message-ID<ElUJk-eLGZ-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248090

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 09:25:34 -04 Fero Dali wrote:
> I got a warning from google that my account will be discontinued.
> 
> > On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure
> > sign-in technology
> > To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support the
> > use of third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your
> > Google Account using only your username and password. Instead,
> > you’ll need to sign in using Sign in with Google
> 
>  I have used a google account to read email from mailing lists. I am
> using fetchmail to get emails from google. Now it says it will
> discontinue this access to my mail. I do not want to use webmail (I
> need to receive my mail on my computer). Is there a way to somehow
> download emails from gmail as I used to after May 30?
> 
> Thanks

Please read the archives on this mailing list to receive an in-depth-answer:

fetchmail-users@lists.sourceforge.net

All the best to you
Eike

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#248093

Frommick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com>
Date2022-05-11 16:40 +0200
Message-ID<ElVFo-eMeV-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248090
On 2022-05-11 14:25, Fero Dali wrote:
> I got a warning from google that my account will be discontinued.
> 
>> On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure 
>> sign-in
>> technology
>> To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support the 
>> use of
>> third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your Google 
>> Account
>> using only your username and password. Instead, you’ll need to sign in
>> using Sign in with Google
> 
>  I have used a google account to read email from mailing lists. I am 
> using
> fetchmail to get emails from google. Now it says it will discontinue 
> this
> access to my mail. I do not want to use webmail (I need to receive my 
> mail
> on my computer). Is there a way to somehow download emails from gmail
> as I used to after May 30?
> 
There's scripts been posted on the getmail mailing list to fix this.
I ought to sort it out in the next day or so but it might be easier to 
stop using gmail.
There's some other limiting thing coming in later apparently.
google instructions here.
https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185833

mick

-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#248099

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2022-05-11 20:00 +0200
Message-ID<ElYMV-eNZO-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248090
On Wed 11 May 2022 at 15:25:34 +0200, Fero Dali wrote:

> I got a warning from google that my account will be discontinued.

No, you didn't.
> 
> > On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure sign-in
> > technology
> > To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support the use of
> > third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your Google Account
> > using only your username and password. Instead, you’ll need to sign in
> > using Sign in with Google
> 
>  I have used a google account to read email from mailing lists. I am using
> fetchmail to get emails from google. Now it says it will discontinue this
> access to my mail,

Where does google say that?

-- 
Brian.

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#248100

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2022-05-11 20:10 +0200
Message-ID<ElYWB-eOix-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248099
On Wed 11 May 2022 at 19:04:01 +0100, mick crane wrote:

> On 2022-05-11 18:51, Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 11 May 2022 at 15:25:34 +0200, Fero Dali wrote:
> > 
> > > I got a warning from google that my account will be discontinued.
> > 
> 
> > Where does google say that?
> 
> It's about stopping phishing emails or something
> https://developers.googleblog.com/2022/02/making-oauth-flows-safer.html

That does not answer my question.

-- 
Brian.

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#248101

FromFero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com>
Date2022-05-11 20:10 +0200
Message-ID<ElYWC-eOix-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248099
On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 7:51 PM Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed 11 May 2022 at 15:25:34 +0200, Fero Dali wrote:
> > I got a warning from google that my account will be discontinued.
>
> No, you didn't.

Sorry for misunderstanding: it seems that my account will continue to work but
ability to download mail with POP3 without OAUTH2 will be unavailable.

> > > On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure sign-in
> > > technology
> > > To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support the use of
> > > third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your Google Account
> > > using only your username and password. Instead, you’ll need to sign in
> > > using Sign in with Google
> >
> >  I have used a google account to read email from mailing lists. I am using
> > fetchmail to get emails from google. Now it says it will discontinue this
> > access to my mail,
>
> Where does google say that?

In the first line of their email:
> On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure sign-in technology

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#248102

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2022-05-11 20:20 +0200
Message-ID<ElZ6h-eOlA-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248101
On Wed 11 May 2022 at 20:09:14 +0200, Fero Dali wrote:

> On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 7:51 PM Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Wed 11 May 2022 at 15:25:34 +0200, Fero Dali wrote:
> > > I got a warning from google that my account will be discontinued.
> >
> > No, you didn't.
> 
> Sorry for misunderstanding: it seems that my account will continue to work but
> ability to download mail with POP3 without OAUTH2 will be unavailable.
> 
> > > > On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure sign-in
> > > > technology
> > > > To help keep your account secure, Google will no longer support the use of
> > > > third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your Google Account
> > > > using only your username and password. Instead, you’ll need to sign in
> > > > using Sign in with Google
> > >
> > >  I have used a google account to read email from mailing lists. I am using
> > > fetchmail to get emails from google. Now it says it will discontinue this
> > > access to my mail,
> >
> > Where does google say that?
> 
> In the first line of their email:
> > On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure sign-in technology

It does not say

  "On May 30, you may lose access to POP3 if you are using fetchmail".

It also says "may" not "will". Is it known for a fact that fetchmail is
on a list of "less secure sign-in technology". Have Google designated it
as such?

-- 
Brian.

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#248105

FromFero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com>
Date2022-05-11 20:50 +0200
Message-ID<ElZzj-eOuL-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248102
On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 8:15 PM Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed 11 May 2022 at 20:09:14 +0200, Fero Dali wrote:
> It does not say
>
>   "On May 30, you may lose access to POP3 if you are using fetchmail".
>
> It also says "may" not "will". Is it known for a fact that fetchmail is
> on a list of "less secure sign-in technology". Have Google designated it
> as such?

In the next line it says "will":
> Google will no longer support

In any case I am  looking for another email service supplier that does not
use the 2-Step Verification (OAUTH2) process to access my email box.

On the web I looked at http://riseup.net and it looks like a good one.
But to create an account there I also need an Invite Code.
So, please, if anyone can give me an Invite Code for riseup.net
I would be very grateful.

Thanks

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#248119

FromVirgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee>
Date2022-05-12 12:10 +0200
Message-ID<EmdVD-eXh0-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248101
On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:09:14 +0200, Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry for misunderstanding: it seems that my account will continue to work but
> ability to download mail with POP3 without OAUTH2 will be unavailable.
>

	Actually, even without OAUTH2 it should be still possible. With
two factor authentication enabled it is possible to generate app
password for use with standard authentication.

-- 
Virgo Pärna 
virgo.parna@mail.ee

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#248122

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2022-05-12 15:30 +0200
Message-ID<Emh3b-eZ4l-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248119
On 2022-05-12, Virgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2022 20:09:14 +0200, Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sorry for misunderstanding: it seems that my account will continue to work but
>> ability to download mail with POP3 without OAUTH2 will be unavailable.
>>
>
> 	Actually, even without OAUTH2 it should be still possible. With
> two factor authentication enabled it is possible to generate app
> password for use with standard authentication.

Yeah, this all seems like a tempest in a fictious teapot. 

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Backup_Gmail_with_getmail

 Troubleshooting
 Depending on your Gmail security, you may be left with this error when
 running getmail:

  getmailrc: credential/login error ([ALERT] Please log in via your web
  browser:
  https://support.google.com/mail/accounts/bin/answer.py?answer=78754
  (Failure))
  0 messages (0 bytes) retrieved, 0 skipped
   
 To bypass this Gmail security feature, one must enable access for
 less secure apps

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#248123

FromFero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com>
Date2022-05-12 15:30 +0200
Message-ID<Emh3b-eZ4l-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248119
On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 12:08 PM Virgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee> wrote:
>
>         Actually, even without OAUTH2 it should be still possible. With
> two factor authentication enabled it is possible to generate app
> password for use with standard authentication.

In my second email in this thread I described why I can not get
two factor authentication. So I still can not use POP3 here.

BTW as far as I understand OAUTH2 and two factor authentication
are the same thing. I might be wrong though.

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#248125

FromGreg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org>
Date2022-05-12 15:40 +0200
Message-ID<EmhcR-eZ7z-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248123
On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 03:23:25PM +0200, Fero Dali wrote:
> BTW as far as I understand OAUTH2 and two factor authentication
> are the same thing. I might be wrong though.

A quick google search and a skim of one web site tells me that they
are not.  It also tells me that I'm going to need more than a 30-second
skim to understand what OAUTH2 actually is... but it's definitely not
two-factor authentication.  It's not even *authentication* at all;
according to the site I got, it's an *authorization* framework.

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#248137

FromVirgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee>
Date2022-05-12 20:10 +0200
Message-ID<Emlqa-f1M6-45@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248123
On Thu, 12 May 2022 15:23:25 +0200, Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In my second email in this thread I described why I can not get
> two factor authentication. So I still can not use POP3 here.
>

	Tried rechecking all mails, but did not find that mail. TOTP
based twofactor can be used even without phone app. 

> BTW as far as I understand OAUTH2 and two factor authentication
> are the same thing. I might be wrong though.
>

	OAUTH2 is basically logging in via web brauser and then getting
authorization token, that needs to be refreshed from time to time for it to
continue work. It is theoretically open standard, but... In reallity
service providers like Google and Microsoft require certifing programs
before they can use their OAUTH2 login.  

	Also, for it to work seamlessly program needs to have embedded
web browser or web server to receive authentication tokens.


-- 
Virgo Pärna 
virgo.parna@mail.ee

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#248138

FromFero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com>
Date2022-05-12 21:00 +0200
Message-ID<Emmcy-f21V-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248137
On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 8:08 PM Virgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee> wrote:
>
>         Tried rechecking all mails, but did not find that mail. TOTP
> based twofactor can be used even without phone app.

I made a mistake and replied privately to mick crane and he was very
kind and repost that mail to the list:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/05/msg00331.html

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#248146

FromVirgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee>
Date2022-05-13 08:00 +0200
Message-ID<Emwvf-f8lr-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248138
On Thu, 12 May 2022 20:59:16 +0200, Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 8:08 PM Virgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee> wrote:
>>
>>         Tried rechecking all mails, but did not find that mail. TOTP
>> based twofactor can be used even without phone app.
>
> I made a mistake and replied privately to mick crane and he was very
> kind and repost that mail to the list:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/05/msg00331.html
>

	Ok. Google Authenticator based 2 factor is TOTP. That is why I
said, that it can be used without phone. Keepass password manager
supports it. But that does mean, that you need to have access to those
programs anywhere, where you are logging into gmail. So that can be an
issue.

-- 
Virgo Pärna 
virgo.parna@mail.ee

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#248139

FromAsh Joubert <ash@transient.nz>
Date2022-05-13 01:10 +0200
Message-ID<Emq6t-f4B2-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248123
On 13/05/2022 01:23, Fero Dali wrote:
> BTW as far as I understand OAUTH2 and two factor authentication
> are the same thing. I might be wrong though.

They are not. OAuth2 is a delegated access framework: with OAuth2 for 
Gmail, you use your Google password once to authorise Google to give 
your email client a token that it can then use to access your email, 
contacts, and calendar and *only* those, and not any other Google 
services. This means that your main Google password is not stored in 
your email client, reducing the risk that it might be compromised, as 
well as limiting the access of your email client.

Two-factor authentication is when you need to confirm your login with an 
SMS message or one-time pad or other second way of authenticating that 
you are who you claim to be. 2FA is popular because users choose weak 
passwords and share them between services. If users generate a unique 
strong random password for every service, little is gained with 2FA, and 
2FA is then just a massive pain in the arse. But user behaviour is 
unreliable.

Thunderbird supports OAuth2 and I use it for Gmail IMAP. K-9 Mail on 
Android does not support OAuth2 so I use the Gmail app on Android for 
Gmail alone.

Kind regards,

-- 
Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

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#248142

From"tv.debian" <tv.debian@googlemail.com>
Date2022-05-13 01:40 +0200
Message-ID<Emqzv-f4KB-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248139
Le 13/05/2022 à 01:06, Ash Joubert a écrit :
> On 13/05/2022 01:23, Fero Dali wrote:
>> BTW as far as I understand OAUTH2 and two factor authentication
>> are the same thing. I might be wrong though.
> 
> They are not. OAuth2 is a delegated access framework: with OAuth2 for 
> Gmail, you use your Google password once to authorise Google to give 
> your email client a token that it can then use to access your email, 
> contacts, and calendar and *only* those, and not any other Google 
> services. This means that your main Google password is not stored in 
> your email client, reducing the risk that it might be compromised, as 
> well as limiting the access of your email client.
> 
> Two-factor authentication is when you need to confirm your login with an 
> SMS message or one-time pad or other second way of authenticating that 
> you are who you claim to be. 2FA is popular because users choose weak 
> passwords and share them between services. If users generate a unique 
> strong random password for every service, little is gained with 2FA, and 
> 2FA is then just a massive pain in the arse. But user behaviour is 
> unreliable.
> 
> Thunderbird supports OAuth2 and I use it for Gmail IMAP. K-9 Mail on 
> Android does not support OAuth2 so I use the Gmail app on Android for 
> Gmail alone.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 

This is off-topic but on Android "FairEmail" supports OAuth2 with Google 
and others, only in it's Play store version sadly, not the F-Droid one. 
I am not affiliated with the author of "fairEmail" and used K9 previously.

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#248143

FromNicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com>
Date2022-05-13 02:30 +0200
Message-ID<EmrlT-f5ft-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248139

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 6:06 PM Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> wrote:
...trimmed...


> Two-factor authentication is when you need to confirm your login with an
> SMS message or one-time pad or other second way of authenticating that
> you are who you claim to be. 2FA is popular because users choose weak
> passwords and share them between services. If users generate a unique
> strong random password for every service, little is gained with 2FA, and
> 2FA is then just a massive pain in the arse. But user behaviour is
> unreliable.
>

In the last couple years many corporate and not-for-profit organizations
have implemented
2-factor authentication internally. Even in the physical office many
transactions require 2FA interaction.
Where I am now that is also the case, and 2FA is configured to prompt with
a choice between receiving
the 2nd factor by SMS text message, voice call, or email. They're using
Pulse 2FA. So your provider
can do that too if they want to. But the whole point of 2FA is that there
shall be a second response
from a previously known location for you: phone number, email address, etc.

That's the value added in exchange for Ash's "massive pain in the arse".
Just making the 1st factor be
a loong password is not equivalent to 2FA in any way. Machine reaching back
to you is the difference.

.......
>
> Kind regards,
>
> --
> Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz>
> Director
> Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
> New Zealand
>
>

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#248145

From<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Date2022-05-13 07:20 +0200
Message-ID<EmvSx-f89O-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248143

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 07:23:31PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 6:06 PM Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> wrote:
> ...trimmed...
> 
> 
> > Two-factor authentication is when you need to confirm your login with an
> > SMS message or one-time pad or other second way of authenticating that
> > you are who you claim to be. 2FA is popular because users choose weak
> > passwords and share them between services. If users generate a unique
> > strong random password for every service, little is gained with 2FA, and
> > 2FA is then just a massive pain in the arse. But user behaviour is
> > unreliable.
> >
> 
> In the last couple years many corporate and not-for-profit organizations
> have implemented
> 2-factor authentication internally. Even in the physical office many
> transactions require 2FA interaction.
> Where I am now that is also the case, and 2FA is configured to prompt with
> a choice between receiving
> the 2nd factor by SMS text message, voice call, or email. They're using
> Pulse 2FA. So your provider
> can do that too if they want to. But the whole point of 2FA is that there
> shall be a second response
> from a previously known location for you: phone number, email address, etc.
> 
> That's the value added in exchange for Ash's "massive pain in the arse".
> Just making the 1st factor be
> a loong password is not equivalent to 2FA in any way. Machine reaching back
> to you is the difference.

The only "value added" is for those third-party providers: they know where
& when you are logging into which service and can monetize on it.

It's just the basic antipattern you can see everywhere in surveillance
capitalism: provide a service which interposes between users and the
things they do (search, communicate, marketplace, transport; in the
current case: identity management), try to make them dependent, monetize
the knowledge you gain about your users.

Not all 2FA is like that, of course. When your second factor is a
hardware dongle (best if you control it, i.e. it's open hardware and
free firmware, Nitrokey comes as near as it gets). Still, why?

A loong password is not "equivalent" to 2FA, that's right. Good
password management (of which length is but a part) is as secure
as 2FA.

Cheers
-- 
t

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#248148

FromCurt <curty@free.fr>
Date2022-05-13 11:40 +0200
Message-ID<EmzW9-fbgA-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#248145
On 2022-05-13, <tomas@tuxteam.de> <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote:
>
> It's just the basic antipattern you can see everywhere in surveillance

You seem to be seeing these antipatterns at the drop of any hat.

But I read recently about a brand new password antipattern (whatever those are).
The only thing is, I don't really understand what the hell it is exactly.

  In a joint effort to make the web more secure and usable for all,
  Apple, Google and Microsoft today announced plans to expand support
  for a common passwordless sign-in standard created by the FIDO
  Alliance and the World Wide Web Consortium. The new capability will
  allow websites and apps to offer consistent, secure, and easy
  passwordless sign-ins to consumers across devices and platforms.  

https://fidoalliance.org/apple-google-and-microsoft-commit-to-expanded-support-for-fido-standard-to-accelerate-availability-of-passwordless-sign-ins/

I guess the devil, as always, will be hiding somewhere in the details.

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