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Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

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  Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2022-04-25 13:20 +0200
    Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian  LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-04-25 19:10 +0200
      Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian  LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 19:20 +0200
        Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian  LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-04-25 19:30 +0200
          Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian  LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 20:20 +0200
            Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian  LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-04-25 20:30 +0200
              Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian  LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-04-26 20:00 +0200
                Re: New Debian Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-28 19:40 +0200
                  Re: New Debian "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-04-29 10:50 +0200
          Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian  LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-26 15:40 +0200
            Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian  LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-26 16:10 +0200
            Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian  LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-04-26 16:50 +0200
              Re: Firmaware II IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2022-04-28 19:30 +0200
                Re: Firmaware II <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-01 13:30 +0200

#247515 — Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

Am Montag, 25. April 2022, 12:58:48 CEST schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
Best version, if you do not want to have administration work, would be 
Debian-11 (which is bullseye). You should choose "stable", which is well 
tested and does not have much changes in the future.

Of course you will chose the correct version for your hardware. I suppose (if 
the computer is not too old), will be amd64, which is 64-Bit. Make sure, you 
get the correct one.

Good luck!

Best

Hans

 

> ________________________________
> 
> 
> Good afternoon.
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> We do backup every evening.
> 
> What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> CD?
> 
> We want to repair Debian
> for learning-studying Linux.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Sophie
> 
> 
> 

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#247531 — Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

Hello Sophie,
>  
> 
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > 
> > Good afternoon.
> > 
> > Thank You.
> > 
> > We do backup every evening.
> > 
> > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> > CD?
> > 

We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(

Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso

This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The firmware
may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.

The disk listed above is a network install disk: it is small to download
but uses network bandwidth to pull down the rest of the Debian packages
required.

If you can _only_ boot from CD, then you need a program capable of 
burning a .iso to a disk.

If you have a machine running Windows, you can use a program called
Rufus very effectively to write the .iso image to a USB stick.
See also: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstall

See also the installation guide at https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/index.en.html.

I hope this helps. With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater.


> > We want to repair Debian
> > for learning-studying Linux.
> > 
> > Thank You
> > 
> > Sophie
> > 
> > 
> > 
>

 

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#247532 — Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 16:59:57 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> Hello Sophie,
> >  
> > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Good afternoon.
> > > 
> > > Thank You.
> > > 
> > > We do backup every evening.
> > > 
> > > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> > > CD?
> > > 
> 
> We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(
> 
> Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend
> 
> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> 
> This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The firmware
> may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
> certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.

I am aware that this ISO has non-free packages for a wireless
connection and that any needed will be used and installed by
d-i. However, what about micorode packages, firmware-intel-sound,
bluez-firmwarem and dahdi-firmware? At which stage(s) of an
installation does d-i become aware of them?

--
Brian.

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#247534 — Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 06:15:40PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 16:59:57 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> 
> > Hello Sophie,
> > >  
> > > 
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Good afternoon.
> > > > 
> > > > Thank You.
> > > > 
> > > > We do backup every evening.
> > > > 
> > > > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> > > > CD?
> > > > 
> > 
> > We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(
> > 
> > Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend
> > 
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> > 
> > This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The firmware
> > may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
> > certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.
> 
> I am aware that this ISO has non-free packages for a wireless
> connection and that any needed will be used and installed by
> d-i. However, what about micorode packages, firmware-intel-sound,
> bluez-firmwarem and dahdi-firmware? At which stage(s) of an
> installation does d-i become aware of them?
> 

Some of these are recognised at inital boot: if unsure, they can be
added. For myself, I normally install the metapackages firmware-linux-nonfree
and firmware-misc-nonfree which solve the problem. As the discussion elsewhere
on Debian mailing lists is showing, it is really very difficult indeed to 
do without all firmware.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

> --
> Brian.
> 

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#247539 — Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 17:24:29 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 06:15:40PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 16:59:57 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello Sophie,
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Good afternoon.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thank You.
> > > > > 
> > > > > We do backup every evening.
> > > > > 
> > > > > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> > > > > CD?
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > > We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(
> > > 
> > > Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend
> > > 
> > > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> > > 
> > > This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The firmware
> > > may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
> > > certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.
> > 
> > I am aware that this ISO has non-free packages for a wireless
> > connection and that any needed will be used and installed by
> > d-i. However, what about micorode packages, firmware-intel-sound,
> > bluez-firmwarem and dahdi-firmware? At which stage(s) of an
> > installation does d-i become aware of them?
> > 
> 
> Some of these are recognised at inital boot: if unsure, they can be
> added. For myself, I normally install the metapackages firmware-linux-nonfree
> and firmware-misc-nonfree which solve the problem. As the discussion elsewhere
> on Debian mailing lists is showing, it is really very difficult indeed to 
> do without all firmware.

The need for a non-free WiFi firmware is recognised and the user is
given the choice to install it or not. I have never come across d-i
offering to install other non-free packages, which is what one would
expect. Are you sure they are even considered?

The "discussion elsewhere" seems to be specifically about firmware
and looks to be going somewhere. About time!

-- 
Brian.

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#247540 — Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 07:18:48PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 17:24:29 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 06:15:40PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 16:59:57 +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hello Sophie,
> > > > >  
> > > > > 
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Good afternoon.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Thank You.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > We do backup every evening.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > What version of Debian from Debian URL is the best do download and burn on
> > > > > > CD?
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > We still don't know what the actual computer you use is :(
> > > > 
> > > > Unless it is a (very old) 32 bit only machine, I would recommend
> > > > 
> > > > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> > > > 
> > > > This is unofficial only because it contains non-free firmware. The firmware
> > > > may be necessary for your machine to boot and work well: it will almost
> > > > certainly be required if you are installing over a WiFi connection.
> > > 
> > > I am aware that this ISO has non-free packages for a wireless
> > > connection and that any needed will be used and installed by
> > > d-i. However, what about micorode packages, firmware-intel-sound,
> > > bluez-firmwarem and dahdi-firmware? At which stage(s) of an
> > > installation does d-i become aware of them?
> > > 
> > 
> > Some of these are recognised at inital boot: if unsure, they can be
> > added. For myself, I normally install the metapackages firmware-linux-nonfree
> > and firmware-misc-nonfree which solve the problem. As the discussion elsewhere
> > on Debian mailing lists is showing, it is really very difficult indeed to 
> > do without all firmware.
> 
> The need for a non-free WiFi firmware is recognised and the user is
> given the choice to install it or not. I have never come across d-i
> offering to install other non-free packages, which is what one would
> expect. Are you sure they are even considered?
> 

I'm fairly sure that microcode may get installed. As I say, I get round
the problem by installing the two metapackages which pull in everything
needed.

> The "discussion elsewhere" seems to be specifically about firmware
> and looks to be going somewhere. About time!
> 
>

As someone who also works with the images team: I have the highest regard
for the opinions of Steve McIntyre and Andy Simpkins with whom I work
whenever we do release testing.

All the best, as ever,

Andy Cater 

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#247583 — Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 01:31:02PM +0000, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon.
> Thank You
> 
> We dont use WIFI.
> 
> Desktops
> 
> We do
> connect with cable to the WWW.
> Also mouse and keyboard is with cable.
> 

OK: in many ways that makes it easier. I would still suggest the firmware
disk - if only because that also may include manufacturer's security fixes
for the code that runs deep within the main processor in your machine, for
example.

As Greg says, you can find exactly which firmware you need by runnng the 
command he gave.

If you are happy to rebuild the computer you have with new software -
wiping out the previous attempts to upgrade Debian in place - then:

* Prepare a USB stick / CD with the .iso file.

* Go into the menu which supports boot from different media
[This is sometimes accessed by holding down F1 or F2 or F12 or the Delete key]

* Boot from the install medium and follow the prompts. If you have another
computer available, I would suggest that you also have the release notes
for Bullseye open at the same time -
 https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/

I would suggest the graphical mode install, perhaps.

You said in one of the earliest messages that you have previously been
using Debian LXDE desktop. The first choice for Debian desktop is GNOME
which may use more memory / more resources.

If you wish to use LXDE as your install, when it gets to the screen for
selecting software - deselect GNOME and select LXDE instead. The selections
can be changed by selecting them then hitting the spacebar, I think

Hope this helps.

> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> 
All the best, as ever,
 
 Andy Cater
> 

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#247714 — Re: New Debian

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 05:00:55PM +0000, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> we did download an ISO File.

For the love of glob.

*** WHICH ISO FILE?? ***

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#247725 — Re: New Debian

Dear Sophie,

could you please explain the relation of your planned Debian installation
with Michael Schwibinger. Does he know that you use his name here ?

This list is an international community where humorous statements should be
clearly marked as such, or else they end up in our minds as clueless and
trollish. The german art of Realsatire would be wasted on us, although some
people here may know and love it in real life.

If you are really in distress with the task of installing Debian, then
please consider to find somebody who can guide you through that process
while having physical access to the computer in question.
(Michael Schwibinger himself might be candidate for that.)
Given the level of computer knowledge which you displayed so far and the
informations you gave, i see few chance that any of us remote and globally
scattered Debian users can help you.


Schwibinger Michael <hbss@hotmail.com> / Sophie wrote:
> > we did download an ISO File.

Greg Wooledge wrote:
> For the love of glob.
> *** WHICH ISO FILE?? ***

Maybe a metaphorical one as negative representation of "aptly juggling with
excuses" ("geschickt mit Ausreden zu jonglieren") at the end of a playful
IT carreer ("1982 Dip.Ing.der Informatik" = "Master of engineering in
information technology"):
  https://hbss.tripod.com/firmbio.htm

This here offers "clown therapy" and "erotic counselling"
  https://hbss.tripod.com/
(For cases like Harley Quinn and The Joker ?)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#247569 — Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 01:27:39PM +0000, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> What is firmware?
> Do I need it?
> Is it dangerous?

Firmware is executable code that runs inside of a device (such as a
network interface) rather than in your CPU.

Many modern devices require some non-free firmware in order to perform
their duties correctly.  This is *especially* the case with wireless
network interfaces, but also applies to video chipsets and other things.

If your devices are old enough, you may not need any.  If your devices
are newer, you probably need some.

You can check by using

  sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware

(or any equivalent way of running dmesg as root).

As for whether it's dangerous... it's kind of a pointless question.  Either
you trust the manufacturer of the device, who is also the author of the
firmware, or you do not.

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#247572 — Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 01:41:07PM +0000, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> What does mean
> 
> firmware is free
> firmware is not free?

Firmware can be free OR non-free.

Firmware for wireless interfaces is ALMOST ALWAYS non-free, because of
proprietary secrets that the wireless chip manufacturer is forced to
keep.  The government does not want end users to be able to violate the
frequency restrictions, so they force the manufacturers to keep the
technical details hidden from the users.

Firmware for video chipsets is typically non-free because of trade secrets
that the manufacturers are trying to keep hidden from their competition.

For the love of glob, just FIND OUT WHETHER YOU ARE MISSING ANY FIRMWARE
by running this command:

    sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware

If you are missing some, then GO GET IT!

SHEEEEEESH.

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#247573 — Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem: Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:32:23 -0400
Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:

...

> Firmware is executable code that runs inside of a device (such as a
> network interface) rather than in your CPU.
> 
> Many modern devices require some non-free firmware in order to perform
> their duties correctly.  This is *especially* the case with wireless
> network interfaces, but also applies to video chipsets and other things.
> 
> If your devices are old enough, you may not need any.  If your devices
> are newer, you probably need some.

Just FTR, some rather old wired ethernet adaptors, such as the Broadcom
NetXtreme II (BCM5716) in my Dell R210 II, also require non-free
firmware to function:

https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-bnx2

-- 
Celejar

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#247713 — Re: Firmaware II

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

>
>
> Is firmware not connected to the hardware?
>
>
Modern hardware (wifi adapter for example) is a tiny computer. Firmware is
a special program that runs in it (much like you run Debian on your PC).
Hardware vendors provide firmware as blob: compiled piece of data without
source (like Windows)) so firmware is not open source.
The problem is hardware can't work without firmware, so you still need to
download it and install it inside of hardware.
Since Debian is an open source OS, it doesn't provide closed-source
firmwares by default, and many wifi adapters simply do not work.
To fix that, user must explicitly add "non-free" repository to the list of
apr repositories in Debian (you can do that during installation or later by
editing sources.list) and then
install firmware package.
Debian loads it into hardware and it works after that.

Many people believe that everything (including firmware) must be
opensourced, but we can't force hardware vendors to do that.
https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware

<https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware>
There is also a chicken-and-egg problem: you can't access the Internet to
download firmware if your wifi doesn't work. To solve it, one may use
special (unofficial) Debian installer
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/

------------------------------
> *Von:* Celejar <celejar@gmail.com>
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 26. April 2022 14:46
> *An:* debian-user@lists.debian.org <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
> *Betreff:* Re: AW: AW: AW: Here Newbie---Amateur in Linux...Problem:
> Debian LXDE cannot boot.. Is it destroyed?//Second try Hotmail bug Sorry
>
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:32:23 -0400
> Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > Firmware is executable code that runs inside of a device (such as a
> > network interface) rather than in your CPU.
> >
> > Many modern devices require some non-free firmware in order to perform
> > their duties correctly.  This is *especially* the case with wireless
> > network interfaces, but also applies to video chipsets and other things.
> >
> > If your devices are old enough, you may not need any.  If your devices
> > are newer, you probably need some.
>
> Just FTR, some rather old wired ethernet adaptors, such as the Broadcom
> NetXtreme II (BCM5716) in my Dell R210 II, also require non-free
> firmware to function:
>
> https://packages.debian.org/buster/firmware-bnx2
>
> --
> Celejar
>
>

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#247786 — Re: Firmaware II

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sun, May 01, 2022 at 10:53:14AM +0000, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good morning
> Thank You for help.
> 
> Do we need this?
> 
> We dont use WIFI
> we do connect the PC and the router with cable.

That depends on your hardware. Most Ethernet hardware
works without firmware.

> ***
> 
> Short question.
> 
> update-grub
> command not found
> What did we do wrong?

Are you running as root?

Cheers
-- 
t

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