Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > linux.debian.user > #247493 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2022-04-24 22:10 +0200 |
| Last post | 2022-05-09 04:40 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 74 — 13 participants |
Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user
email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-24 22:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2022-04-24 23:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 00:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 05:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 06:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 17:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 18:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 19:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 21:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2022-04-26 11:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-26 15:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-26 17:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-26 22:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-27 11:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 11:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 14:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 14:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 16:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2022-04-27 18:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 23:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 14:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 15:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 16:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 16:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 17:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-27 15:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 16:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 17:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 18:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 19:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 20:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 23:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 21:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 23:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 22:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-28 07:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 16:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 20:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 21:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 23:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 22:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 22:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-28 17:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-28 19:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-28 19:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-29 01:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 17:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-25 14:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 16:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-25 16:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 17:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 16:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-26 17:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-26 17:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-25 03:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com> - 2022-04-25 03:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-25 06:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 05:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-25 07:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-25 14:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-26 02:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-04-26 18:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-27 03:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-27 03:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-27 20:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-05-08 18:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-05-08 19:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-09 02:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-05-09 03:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-09 04:40 +0200
Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 Next page →
| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 14:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgPhf-bxUk-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247604 |
On Wed 27 Apr 2022 at 08:05:46 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > David. thanks for hanging in with me! > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 03:23:17PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > > Do you know why mutt is adding a Sender: line to your emails? > > Did you ask it to, or have you been asked to by someone else? > > No, I didn't ask mutt to add a Sender: line and I do not know what > evidence there it that it is doing so. > > If I understand correctly, which is always in serious doubt, it is > exim that constructs the Sender: line by combining /etc/mailname and > $LOCALHOST. Is this so? No. exim4 uses what is in /etec/mailname as the MAI FROM: (the envelope from). > These values are present: > > $ nano /etec/mailname > lenin.histomat.net lenin.histomat.net appears to be unrouteable. How a remote system would deal with that is anyone's guess. -- Brian.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 15:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgQ3E-byrc-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247612 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 01:42:05PM +0100, Brian wrote: > On Wed 27 Apr 2022 at 08:05:46 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > If I understand correctly, which is always in serious doubt, it is > > exim that constructs the Sender: line by combining /etc/mailname and > > $LOCALHOST. Is this so? > > No. exim4 uses what is in /etec/mailname as the MAI FROM: (the envelope > from). Thanks for the clarification. > > These values are present: > > > > $ nano /etec/mailname > > lenin.histomat.net > > lenin.histomat.net appears to be unrouteable. How a remote system would > deal with that is anyone's guess. I do not understand. What should /etc/mailname look like? I suspect it should simply be histomat.net and wonder how the host name got in there. I changed it to the latter value but still get 5.5.1 Protocol error from online email tester. Perhaps I need to restart networking.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 16:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgQQ1-byXz-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247617 |
On 2022-04-27 09:36:22 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 01:42:05PM +0100, Brian wrote: > > On Wed 27 Apr 2022 at 08:05:46 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > > > If I understand correctly, which is always in serious doubt, it is > > > exim that constructs the Sender: line by combining /etc/mailname and > > > $LOCALHOST. Is this so? > > > > No. exim4 uses what is in /etec/mailname as the MAI FROM: (the envelope > > from). > > Thanks for the clarification. > > > > These values are present: > > > > > > $ nano /etec/mailname > > > lenin.histomat.net > > > > lenin.histomat.net appears to be unrouteable. How a remote system would > > deal with that is anyone's guess. > > I do not understand. What should /etc/mailname look like? In general, the FQDN of your machine. It does not need to be resolvable, but if it isn't, you will probably need to use a smarthost. > I suspect it should simply be histomat.net You may use it if you own the domain. Otherwise, I think that this could lead to problems, with mail sent to the wrong place (think of mail sent to root and mail sent to some external histomat.net user). -- Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/> 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/> Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 16:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgR9n-bz4t-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247629 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 04:26:09PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote: > On 2022-04-27 09:36:22 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 01:42:05PM +0100, Brian wrote: > > > On Wed 27 Apr 2022 at 08:05:46 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > Thanks for the clarification. > > > > > > These values are present: > > > > > > > > $ nano /etec/mailname > > > > lenin.histomat.net > > > > > > lenin.histomat.net appears to be unrouteable. How a remote system would > > > deal with that is anyone's guess. > > I do not understand. What should /etc/mailname look like? The reason for my question is that I believe this is the mailname that I've always used (except for changing hostname) without any problem. $ hostname -f lenin.histomat.net > In general, the FQDN of your machine. It does not need to be > resolvable, but if it isn't, you will probably need to use a > smarthost. In exim4 condiguration I select smarthost. So did you mean the recipient mail server must use smarthost?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 17:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgRj3-bz7H-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247632 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:46:53AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > In exim4 condiguration I select smarthost. Is your smarthost "mail.guardedhost.com"? > So did you mean the > recipient mail server must use smarthost? That's total nonsense. A smarthost is for relaying your outgoing mail.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgRM5-bzxu-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247634 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:52:07AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:46:53AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > In exim4 condiguration I select smarthost. > > Is your smarthost "mail.guardedhost.com"? I don't understand. I thought the question in exim configuration referred to my own set up. I tell exim to use smart host for my outcgoing mail. The address mail.guardedhost.com is simply the mail serrver address to which I send outgoing mail. > > So did you mean the > > recipient mail server must use smarthost? > > That's total nonsense. A smarthost is for relaying your outgoing mail. My understanding is that the mail server to which I send mail understands SMTP.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 15:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgQ3E-byrc-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247612 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 01:42:05PM +0100, Brian wrote:
[...]
> lenin.histomat.net appears to be unrouteable. How a remote system would
^^^^^^^^^^^
> deal with that is anyone's guess.
unresolvable (i.e. there's no (MX) DNS record "out there" for it) is what
you want to say?
Cheers
--
t
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 16:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgQZH-bz13-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247620 |
On Wed 27 Apr 2022 at 15:38:21 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 01:42:05PM +0100, Brian wrote: > > [...] > > > lenin.histomat.net appears to be unrouteable. How a remote system would > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > deal with that is anyone's guess. > > unresolvable (i.e. there's no (MX) DNS record "out there" for it) is what > you want to say? I did mean that. Thanks. OTOH, histomat.net is resolvable.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 17:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgRsK-bzqB-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247630 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 03:31:05PM +0100, Brian wrote: > On Wed 27 Apr 2022 at 15:38:21 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 01:42:05PM +0100, Brian wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > lenin.histomat.net appears to be unrouteable. How a remote system would > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > deal with that is anyone's guess. > > > > unresolvable (i.e. there's no (MX) DNS record "out there" for it) is what > > you want to say? > > I did mean that. Thanks. OTOH, histomat.net is resolvable. If mailname (the value of /etc/mailname) is supposed to be my FQDN, then that would be lenin.histomat.net $ hostname -f lenin.histomat.net $ nano /etc/mailname lenin.histomat.net True, an MX record refers to a domain name and so I suppose can make no sense of a domain prepended with a hostname. So should the value of /etc/mailname be a FQDN or simply a domain name? If the latter, then the question is how my installion of the operating system managed to get it wrong. During network setup I entered the hostname lenin and domain name histomat.net. Or at least that was my intention. In /etc/hosts I have the line: 127.0.1.1 lenin.histomat.net lenin
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgRM6-bzxu-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247635 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 11:05:20AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > If mailname (the value of /etc/mailname) is supposed to be my FQDN, > then that would be lenin.histomat.net > > $ hostname -f > lenin.histomat.net > > $ nano /etc/mailname > lenin.histomat.net <https://wiki.debian.org/EtcMailName> says: If your package needs to know what hostname to use on (for example) outgoing news and mail messages which are generated locally, you should use the file /etc/mailname. It will contain the portion after the username and @ (at) sign for email addresses of users on the machine (followed by a newline). So if your /etc/mailname contains lenin.histomat.net then mail sent by john on your system may(!) have a default(!) from/sender address of john@lenin.histomat.net. Unless it's overridden. If what you WANT is for your outgoing mail to appear to come from john@histomat.net then you should have histomat.net in that file instead. The fact that lenin.histomat.net has no MX or A records in global DNS means it's completely unsuitable for being the right-hand side of an email address. So, what you have now is clearly not correct. > So should the value of /etc/mailname be a FQDN or simply a domain > name? It should be what you WANT TO SEE on the right hand side of the @ sign in auto-generated from/sender-type addresses in outgoing email. In this entire thread I have yet to see you simply state what it is that you WANT or EXPECT. > If the latter, then the question is how my installion of the operating > system managed to get it wrong. YOU ARE NOT USING DEBIAN SO WE DON'T KNOW! As a *guess*, it probably used your hostname, which you gave it, as the value of /etc/mailname. There is no way it could know what you want without asking, and there has been a recent trend among OS installers to ask fewer questions, and to assume more things. Of course, since we HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOUR OS'S INSTALLER WORKS, all we can do is guess. > During network setup I entered the > hostname lenin and domain name histomat.net. Or at least that was > my intention. It probably decided to use that as your /etc/mailname. If that's NOT WHAT YOU WANT, then CHANGE IT. (Caveat: you can also override the enveloper sender address, the From: header address, and so on, so that /etc/mailname becomes irrelevant.) > In /etc/hosts I have the line: > > 127.0.1.1 lenin.histomat.net lenin Irrelevant, except insofar as it verifies that you correctly typed your desired hostname at some point. Email certainly will not care. Now, let's look at this domain name for a moment. unicorn:~$ host histomat.net histomat.net has address 216.239.138.216 histomat.net mail is handled by 10 postoffice.omnis.com. unicorn:~$ host postoffice.omnis.com. postoffice.omnis.com has address 216.239.133.242 postoffice.omnis.com has IPv6 address 2607:fe90:1:1::1c The similarity in the two IPv4 addresses catches my attention. It looks like this histomat.net domain name is "owned by" (or at least handled by) the same people who own/handle postoffice.omnis.com. I'm guessing that person isn't you. You don't seem to know enough to be running an Internet domain. So, that begs the question of why you think it's appropriate to announce yourself as histomat.net in your outgoing communications. Furthermore, we've seen evidence that you're using an outgoing mail relay (not under your own control) which rejects your outgoing email if you try to identify yourself as root@lenin.histomat.net. Would it also have rejected root@histomat.net? Who knows. Certainly not us, because you haven't performed that test and told us the result. This makes me wonder what envelope sender address(es) it WILL accept. Knowing that would be incredibly useful. It may be the single most important piece of data you could possibly possess in this entire scenario, as it will probably dictate everything there is to be dictated about how you should configure your outgoing email. Do you have any actual *instructions* or *documentation* that was given to you by the histomat.net / postoffice.omnis.com administrators? Something that could guide you toward setting up your outgoing email in a way they will tolerate? Or is it going to be 100% guesswork? (Also, what is mail.guardedhost.com? I still never saw an answer to that.)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 18:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgSoN-bA0A-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247644 |
On Wed 27 Apr 2022 at 11:29:17 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 11:05:20AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: [...] > > In /etc/hosts I have the line: > > > > 127.0.1.1 lenin.histomat.net lenin > > Irrelevant, except insofar as it verifies that you correctly typed your > desired hostname at some point. Email certainly will not care. Not entirely. Exim would use lenin.histomat.net as the (E)HELO. A smaarthost wouls probably not care as it has authenticated the sender. So, nothing to worry about. -- Brian.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 19:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgTXz-bAMY-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247644 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 11:29:17AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > If what you WANT is for your outgoing mail to appear to come from > john@histomat.net then you should have histomat.net in that file instead. Thanks for the clarifation. I changed it to histomat because I want outgoing mail to appear to come from haines@histomat.net. However just changing it does not fix my problem. I may have to restart networking. If this works I'll let the thread know. > In this entire thread I have yet to see you simply state what it is > that you WANT or EXPECT. Sorry. I simply wanted to fix the problem that some of my outgoing mail was rejected because of a protocol error. I wanted mail to get to its intended recipient; I expected that to happen. The problem seems to be that Sender: field is empty. > YOU ARE NOT USING DEBIAN SO WE DON'T KNOW! I insist that the Devan operating system I use is identical to Debian except for its lack of systemd. Its installation is identical to that of Debian and all packages come from the Debian repository. > As a *guess*, it probably used your hostname, which you gave it, as > the value of /etc/mailname. There is no way it could know what you > want without asking, and there has been a recent trend among OS > installers to ask fewer questions, and to assume more things. In network setup during OS installation, if I recall correctly, I'm asked for a) my host name and seprately for b) my domain namer. It is entirely possible that when it asked for my domaiin name that I entered lenin.histomat.net. But this seems unlikelyi because my e-mail system has been working property until just a week ago. > Of course, since we HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOUR OS'S INSTALLER WORKS, all > we can do is guess. If the installer were any different from that of Debian I would have addressed the difference. Devuan is imply Devian without systemd. The installers presumably work the same. > > During network setup I entered the > > hostname lenin and domain name histomat.net. Or at least that was > > my intention. > > It probably decided to use that as your /etc/mailname. No. The system worked until a week ago. > Now, let's look at this domain name for a moment. > > unicorn:~$ host histomat.net > histomat.net has address 216.239.138.216 > histomat.net mail is handled by 10 postoffice.omnis.com. > > unicorn:~$ host postoffice.omnis.com. > postoffice.omnis.com has address 216.239.133.242 > postoffice.omnis.com has IPv6 address 2607:fe90:1:1::1c > > The similarity in the two IPv4 addresses catches my attention. It looks > like this histomat.net domain name is "owned by" (or at least handled by) > the same people who own/handle postoffice.omnis.com. > > I'm guessing that person isn't you. You don't seem to know enough to be > running an Internet domain. That is correct. I am not an IT person. My public IP address is indeed 216.239.138.216. I assume it is assigned by my ISP. My ISP is Onnis. My mail service is also provided by Omnis. Would that explain the similarity of the IP addresses? > So, that begs the question of why you think it's appropriate to announce > yourself as histomat.net in your outgoing communications. By "announce" do you refer to my domain name? Are you asking why I use histomat.net as my domain name? That is because it is my domain name. I had my ISP create a simple alias for the domain name historicalmateiralism.info. It has the same IP address as hstomat.net. > Furthermore, we've seen evidence that you're using an outgoing mail relay > (not under your own control) which rejects your outgoing email if you > try to identify yourself as root@lenin.histomat.net. Would it also have > rejected root@histomat.net? Who knows. Certainly not us, because you > haven't performed that test and told us the result. I presume that by "outgoing mail relay" you refer to the mail service provided by my ISP. I understand that it will reject root@lenin.histomat.net because my hostname is not part of my domain name. I have no idea off hand how to test if mail sent from root@histomat.net will get through. All I can think of is telnet. I don't know whether mail has an option to define the sender. Perhaps I could log in as root and send mail > This makes me wonder what envelope sender address(es) it WILL accept. > Knowing that would be incredibly useful. It may be the single most > important piece of data you could possibly possess in this entire > scenario, as it will probably dictate everything there is to be dictated > about how you should configure your outgoing email. I know from past success that it will accept mail from haines@histomat (and from brownh@historicalmaterialism.info) > Do you have any actual *instructions* or *documentation* that was > given to you by the histomat.net / postoffice.omnis.com administrators? > Something that could guide you toward setting up your outgoing email in > a way they will tolerate? Or is it going to be 100% guesswork? I cooked up histomat.net and didn't give myself a set of directions ;-). Neither did Omnis. > (Also, what is mail.guardedhost.com? I still never saw an answer to that.) Sorry. I thought I made it clear that this (with port appended) is the address required by my ISP's mail server.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 20:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgUJX-bBiA-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247655 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 01:46:01PM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > Thanks for the clarifation. I changed it to histomat because I want > outgoing mail to appear to come from haines@histomat.net. OK! We're making progress now. Funny thing, though... I'm not sure that /etc/mailname actually does anything other than sit there looking cute. Reading farther along in <https://wiki.debian.org/EtcMailName>, it says: Exim (i.e. exim 3.x) doesn't read /etc/mailname at all. When you configure it, it prompts you for what it calls the "visible name" of the system. This is stored in /etc/mailname, and also used in a few places in the exim config file. But also: Failing to come up with something better exim4 (and mutt) use mailname to qualify recipients and therefore exim4 makes mailname a local domain. If people don't want that, they delete it from the list in the debconf dialog. I'm honestly not sure how to interpret that paragraph about exim4. They're using "local domain" as a technical term with a highly specific meaning, but it's something unique to exim4, and I don't use exim4 myself. What it *sounds* like is "the content of /etc/mailname will be used in the configuration dialog as a default value". In other words, changing the content of /etc/mailname won't do anything unless you then go through the next step of configuring exim4's "local domains", whatever those are. > However just > changing it does not fix my problem. *nod* > I may have to restart networking. > If this works I'll let the thread know. It won't. Networking has nothing to do with MTA configuration. > > YOU ARE NOT USING DEBIAN SO WE DON'T KNOW! > > I insist that the Devan operating system I use is identical to Debian > except for its lack of systemd. Its installation is identical to > that of Debian and all packages come from the Debian repository. You have already demonstrated that this is false. Your popcon package is sending its results to a different address than the Debian popcon package uses. This means the Devuan popcon package is different. Which means it's coming from a different repository. Devuan has *changes*. That's why you selected it. That also means that we, as users of Debian, may not know what all of those changes *are*. > In network setup during OS installation, if I recall > correctly, I'm asked for a) my host name and seprately for b) my > domain namer. It is entirely possible that when it asked for my domaiin name > that I entered lenin.histomat.net. None of that is important. What's important is configuring your MTA correctly. Which means you stop relying on what the installer did for you, and just fix things that need to be fixed. > But this seems unlikelyi because > my e-mail system has been working property until just a week ago. So, something changed a week ago. Did *you* change something? If so, what? If not, then perhaps your smarthost's configuration was changed. Did your smarthost administrator send you any notifications of changes? Anything like that? Or did they just pull the rug out from under you? > > unicorn:~$ host histomat.net > > histomat.net has address 216.239.138.216 > > histomat.net mail is handled by 10 postoffice.omnis.com. > > > > unicorn:~$ host postoffice.omnis.com. > > postoffice.omnis.com has address 216.239.133.242 > > postoffice.omnis.com has IPv6 address 2607:fe90:1:1::1c > > > > The similarity in the two IPv4 addresses catches my attention. It looks > > like this histomat.net domain name is "owned by" (or at least handled by) > > the same people who own/handle postoffice.omnis.com. > > > > I'm guessing that person isn't you. You don't seem to know enough to be > > running an Internet domain. > > That is correct. I am not an IT person. My public IP address is indeed > 216.239.138.216. Oh, that's interesting. So histomat.net points to your machine. > I assume it is assigned by my ISP. My ISP is Onnis. Ahhhhh. > My mail service is also provided by Omnis. Would that explain the > similarity of the IP addresses? Yes. > > So, that begs the question of why you think it's appropriate to announce > > yourself as histomat.net in your outgoing communications. > > By "announce" do you refer to my domain name? I'm talking about the envelope sender address and the From: header address of your outgoing emails. (Brian also mentioned the HELO address, but that usually isn't important.) Re-read your original error message. The one where your exim MTA reported that your smarthost had rejected the message. Keep staring at it until understanding occurs. > Are you asking why I use > histomat.net as my domain name? That is because it is my domain name. It points to your machine, so that sounds correct. What does it mean that the domain name points to your machine? It means that you can use it for *incoming* email. Other people, trying to send email to you, will be able to use that domain name to reach you. Well, they *would* be able to use it to reach you, except... unicorn:~$ host histomat.net histomat.net has address 216.239.138.216 histomat.net mail is handled by 10 postoffice.omnis.com. Your DNS tells them to send mail to postoffice.omnis.com instead of directly to you. This domain name has no effect on your outgoing mail. > I had my ISP create a simple alias for the domain name > historicalmateiralism.info. It has the same IP address as hstomat.net. Typos again. unicorn:~$ host historicalmaterialism.info historicalmaterialism.info has address 216.239.138.216 historicalmaterialism.info mail is handled by 10 postoffice.omnis.com. Once more, email to this domain is directed to postoffice.omnis.com. Neither of these domains has any effect on your outgoing mail configuration. > I presume that by "outgoing mail relay" you refer to the mail service > provided by my ISP. I understand that it will reject > root@lenin.histomat.net because my hostname is not part of my domain > name. > > I have no idea off hand how to test if mail sent from > root@histomat.net will get through. You'd test it by actually sending some mail with that address as the envelope sender. There are three ways you could test that: 1) Reconfigure exim4 to use histomat.net as the default right-hand side of the email address, restart exim4 if needed (I have no idea), and then send another mail from root. 2) Inject a message into exim's mail queue locally with an overridden envelope sender address. I don't know if exim4 provides a simple way to do that. If all else fails, you could invoke /usr/sbin/sendmail directly with the -f option. > All I can think of is telnet. 3) Use telnet to connect directly to your smarthost and send a message by manually typing the SMTP commands. After whatever authentication commands are required, if any. I'd speculate that #2 is going to be the easiest for you. Something like this ought to suffice: printf 'From: root@histomat.net\nSubject: test\nDate: 27 Apr 2022 12:00:00 -0000\n\nHello world.\n' | /usr/sbin/sendmail -oi -oem -froot@histomat.net SOME@ADDRESS where SOME@ADDRESS is any external email address you have (yahoo mail, hotmail, gmail, whatever). > don't know whether mail has an option to define the sender. Perhaps I > could log in as root and send mail That would be option #1 in my list -- reconfigure exim and then try sending mail from a root login shell. I'm not the person to help you reconfigure exim though. > I know from past success that it will accept mail from haines@histomat > (and from brownh@historicalmaterialism.info) Past as in before the changes that occurred a week ago? Might be worth re-testing that. > > (Also, what is mail.guardedhost.com? I still never saw an answer to that.) > > Sorry. I thought I made it clear that this (with port appended) is the > address required by my ISP's mail server. So it's your smarthost? You configured exim to use this as your smarthost? That confirms my interpretation of the error message that you showed us. The smarthost rejected the message, and exim generated the error message to tell you what had happened. It wasn't the most crystal clear error message I've ever seen, but it's better than average. Anyway, test whether mail from haines@histomat.net still works, and if so, read exim docs until you figure out how to configure exim to use that as the default right-hand side of generated outgoing email addresses.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 23:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgXHQ-bD3o-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247659 |
On 2022-04-27 14:31:51 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > Funny thing, though... I'm not sure that /etc/mailname actually does > anything other than sit there looking cute. Reading farther along in > <https://wiki.debian.org/EtcMailName>, it says: > > Exim (i.e. exim 3.x) doesn't read /etc/mailname at all. When you > configure it, it prompts you for what it calls the "visible name" > of the system. This is stored in /etc/mailname, and also used in a > few places in the exim config file. > > But also: > > Failing to come up with something better exim4 (and mutt) use mailname > to qualify recipients and therefore exim4 makes mailname a local > domain. If people don't want that, they delete it from the list in > the debconf dialog. > > I'm honestly not sure how to interpret that paragraph about exim4. This means that if you send a mail to "foo" (without a @ followed by a domain), then "foo" will be qualified with the mailname, i.e. adding "@" followed by the contents of /etc/mailname. So, if you have two machines host1.domain.tld and host2.domain.tld, since their users may be different (typically, root), I think that it is better to have mailname = FQDN of the machine. Otherwise, mailname = domain.tld may be fine. > They're using "local domain" as a technical term with a highly > specific meaning, but it's something unique to exim4, and I don't > use exim4 myself. No, "local domain" just means that the mail is received locally. If domain.tld is a local domain, then mail sent to foo@domain.tld will be sent to the mailbox foo on the local machine instead of being sent through the smarthost (or directly to a MX). This is not specific to exim. -- Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/> 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/> Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 21:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgVd0-bBI9-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247655 |
On Wed 27 Apr 2022 at 13:46:01 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 11:29:17AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > YOU ARE NOT USING DEBIAN SO WE DON'T KNOW! > > I insist that the Devan operating system I use is identical to Debian > except for its lack of systemd. Its installation is identical to > that of Debian and all packages come from the Debian repository. Please do not use that argument here. devuan declares itself as a *fork* of Debian. That is its main selling point. It is not the same as Debian when it comes to many aspects of the OSs Your issue is with a devuan mail server. It should really be discussed there. Just be thankful you are receiving some help. -- Brian.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 23:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgWVr-bCvG-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247655 |
On 2022-04-27 13:46:01 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 11:29:17AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > If what you WANT is for your outgoing mail to appear to come from > > john@histomat.net then you should have histomat.net in that file instead. > > Thanks for the clarifation. I changed it to histomat because I want > outgoing mail to appear to come from haines@histomat.net. Only if you send mail with just a username in "From:", e.g. From: haines In general, one prefers to handle the "From:" address at the MUA level. The only advantage or disadvantage is that if you send a mail to haines@histomat.net, I think that it will be sent locally instead of remotely (that is, going to the smarthost). The local mailbox and the remote mailbox are generally different. So this depends on what you prefer. > However just changing it does not fix my problem. Not surprising. -- Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/> 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/> Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 22:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgWLL-bCsc-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247644 |
On 2022-04-27 11:29:17 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > So if your /etc/mailname contains lenin.histomat.net then mail sent by > john on your system may(!) have a default(!) from/sender address of > john@lenin.histomat.net. Unless it's overridden. > > If what you WANT is for your outgoing mail to appear to come from > john@histomat.net then you should have histomat.net in that file instead. > > The fact that lenin.histomat.net has no MX or A records in global DNS > means it's completely unsuitable for being the right-hand side of an > email address. So, what you have now is clearly not correct. No, this is not necessarily incorrect. If mail is sent locally, this is fine. For mail sent to other machines, 2 things can be done in such a case: 1. Provide a fully qualified e-mail address when sending the mail. This is what one usually does. 2. Configure the local mail server (here, exim) to do address rewriting. (You can also do both.) For instance, on my laptop, I use zira:~> cat /etc/mailname zira.vinc17.org which is the FQDN of the machine, and it is resolvable locally only. This is fine for local mail, e.g. sent by cron. And with Mutt, I provide the correct e-mail address with my_hdr (to set the "From:" header, which will be used for the envelope), e.g. vincent@vinc17.net for this mail message. -- Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/> 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/> Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-28 07:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Eh4pX-bHzo-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247671 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:43:33PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote: > On 2022-04-27 11:29:17 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > So if your /etc/mailname contains lenin.histomat.net then mail sent by > > john on your system may(!) have a default(!) from/sender address of > > john@lenin.histomat.net. Unless it's overridden. > > > > If what you WANT is for your outgoing mail to appear to come from > > john@histomat.net then you should have histomat.net in that file instead. > > > > The fact that lenin.histomat.net has no MX or A records in global DNS > > means it's completely unsuitable for being the right-hand side of an > > email address. So, what you have now is clearly not correct. > > No, this is not necessarily incorrect. If mail is sent locally, > this is fine. For mail sent to other machines, 2 things can be > done in such a case: Agreed. The receiving MTA has to be convinced that the one sending the stuff is supposed to. What that takes is up to that MTA's admin. For example, the sender could provide a cerrtificate for the SMTPS session (I've set up systems like that). Of course, a random MTA contacting "me" with no MX record is either misconfigured or (more probably) a low-cost spammer, so I'll tend to reject that. Cheers -- t
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 16:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgQGl-byUf-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247604 |
On 2022-04-27 08:05:46 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > If I understand correctly, which is always in serious doubt, it is > exim that constructs the Sender: line by combining /etc/mailname and > $LOCALHOST. Is this so? On my machine that uses exim (used to send this mail), exim does not add a "Sender:" line. The exim4(8) man page says for the -f option: Processes running as root or the Exim user are always trusted. Other trusted users are defined by the trusted_users or trusted_groups options. In the absence of -f, or if the caller is not trusted, the sender of a local message is set to the caller's login name at the default qualify domain. But if you set use_envelope_from in Mutt, the -f option will be used (see OPTENVFROM in sendlib.c). -- Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/> 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/> Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 20:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgUAh-bBfm-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247604 |
On Wed 27 Apr 2022 at 08:05:46 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: [...] > A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its > recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: This message is from your smarthost, mail.guardedhost.com. It has attempted to send mail on your behalf to survey@popcon.devuan.org. It tell the server at devuan.org who it is and where the mail is required to go to. Those are the only two required items of info the remote server needs to deliver the mail. > survey@popcon.devuan.org > host mail.guardedhost.com [216.239.133.245] > SMTP error from remote mail server after pipelined sending data block: > 553 5.7.1 <root@histomat.net>: Sender address rejected: > not owned by user brownh@historicalmaterialism.info However, the devuan server apparently decides to look at what is in the mail being sent. At least, that is what I surmise from ...after pipelined sending data block It decides to reject the mail on what it sees, not on guardedhost.com being an inappropriate sender. It sees the sender as claiming to be histomat.net but really being historicalmaterialism.info. This did noy bother mail.guardedhost.com, but it puts popcon.devuan.org's knickers in a twist. It rejects the mail. (People would go beserk if Royal Mail or the US Postal System opend every envelope and scrutnised its contents. But this is email and invasion of privacy is all in a good cause). > Reporting-MTA: dns; lenin.histomat.net > > Action: failed > Final-Recipient: rfc822;survey@popcon.devuan.org > Status: 5.0.0 > Remote-MTA: dns; mail.guardedhost.com > Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 553 5.7.1 <root@histomat.net>: Sender > address rejected: not owned by user brownh@historicalmaterialism.info > > The address haines@histomat.net is owned by > brownh@historicalmaterialism.info. Omnis mail server never had a > problem with root@histomat.net before. The problem is not with the Omnis mail server. It did its job. -- Brian.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user
csiph-web