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Groups > linux.debian.user > #247493 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2022-04-24 22:10 +0200 |
| Last post | 2022-05-09 04:40 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 74 — 13 participants |
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email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-24 22:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2022-04-24 23:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 00:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 05:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 06:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 17:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 18:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 19:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 21:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2022-04-26 11:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-26 15:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-26 17:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-26 22:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-27 11:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 11:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 14:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 14:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 16:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2022-04-27 18:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 23:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 14:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 15:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 16:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 16:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 17:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-27 15:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 16:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 17:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 18:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 19:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 20:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 23:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 21:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 23:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 22:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-28 07:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 16:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 20:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 21:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 23:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 22:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 22:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-28 17:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-28 19:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-28 19:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-29 01:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 17:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-25 14:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 16:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-25 16:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 17:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 16:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-26 17:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-26 17:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-25 03:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com> - 2022-04-25 03:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-25 06:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 05:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-25 07:00 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-25 14:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-26 02:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-04-26 18:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-27 03:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-27 03:20 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-27 20:40 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-05-08 18:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-05-08 19:10 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-09 02:50 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-05-09 03:30 +0200
Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-09 04:40 +0200
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| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-24 22:10 +0200 |
| Subject | email lacks sender address |
| Message-ID | <EfQIp-aWgw-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
I use mutt to send messages through exim4. Some messages lack a sender. Here is a log emtry showing that from: address is blank: Apr 24 11:11:29 tev-mail-relay1 postfix/smtpd[510179]: connect from unknown[32.210.108.191] Apr 24 11:11:30 tev-mail-relay1 postfix/smtpd[510179]: Anonymous TLS connection established from unknown[32.210.108.191]: TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256 Apr 24 11:11:30 tev-mail-relay1 postfix/smtpd[510179]: NOQUEUE: milter-reject: MAIL from unknown[32.210.108.191]: 554 5.7.1 Empty Sender Address is prohibited through this server; from=<> proto=ESMTP helo=<lenin.histomat.net> sasl_username=<brownh@historicalmaterialism.info> Apr 24 11:11:30 tev-mail-relay1 postfix/smtpd[510179]: disconnect from unknown[32.210.108.191] ehlo=2 starttls=1 auth=1 mail=0/1 rcpt=0/1 bdat=0/1 quit=1 commands=5/8 521 5.5.1 Protocol error (154.24 ms) Unverified address I reconfigured exim4 and it has no problem.
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| From | Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-24 23:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EfS7v-aX5q-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247493 |
On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 04:02:31PM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: >I use mutt to send messages through exim4. Some messages lack a >sender. Any idea what circumstances result in messages which do, or do not, have a Sender? Do you have anything relevant in /etc/email-addresses? >Here is a log emtry showing that from: address is blank: Sender: or From:? or SMTP FROM? I'm not familiar enough with Postfix to interpret the logs, but, it seems to be talking about Sender:. I would start by trying to rule out some of the software involved here. Try using swaks to generate test mails to your local exim, ruling out mutt, and then use swaks directly to your Postfix relay, and see if you get different results. -- Please do not CC me for listmail. 👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland ✎ jmtd@debian.org 🔗 https://jmtd.net
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-25 00:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EfT3z-aXDi-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247493 |
On Sun 24 Apr 2022 at 16:02:31 (-0400), Haines Brown wrote:
> I use mutt to send messages through exim4. Some messages lack a
> sender. Here is a log emtry showing that from: address is blank:
>
> Apr 24 11:11:29 tev-mail-relay1 postfix/smtpd[510179]: connect from
> unknown[32.210.108.191]
> Apr 24 11:11:30 tev-mail-relay1 postfix/smtpd[510179]: Anonymous TLS connection
> established from unknown[32.210.108.191]: TLSv1.3 with cipher
> TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256)
> server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256
> Apr 24 11:11:30 tev-mail-relay1 postfix/smtpd[510179]: NOQUEUE: milter-reject:
> MAIL from unknown[32.210.108.191]: 554 5.7.1 Empty Sender Address
> is prohibited through this server; from=<>
> proto=ESMTP helo=<lenin.histomat.net>
> sasl_username=<brownh@historicalmaterialism.info>
> Apr 24 11:11:30 tev-mail-relay1 postfix/smtpd[510179]: disconnect from
> unknown[32.210.108.191] ehlo=2 starttls=1 auth=1 mail=0/1 rcpt=0/1
> bdat=0/1 quit=1 commands=5/8
>
> 521 5.5.1 Protocol error (154.24 ms)
> Unverified address
>
> I reconfigured exim4 and it has no problem.
It looks to me as if you have no /envelope/ sender on some messages.
I don't know whether that's caused by exim, say, failing to rewrite
an address properly, but it seems unlikely that you're going to
compose an email without a From: at the top. (I can't be sure: it
might be possible to compose without showing headers, and there's
also the possibility of sending emails from the command line.)
You can make mutt ensure that there's an envelope address by setting
either (or both, they interact) of envelope_from_address or
use_envelope_from. AIUI, exim can still select what actually gets
used.
↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓ ie the envelope sender …
> MAIL from unknown[32.210.108.191]: 554 5.7.1 Empty Sender Address
> is prohibited through this server; from=<>
… would be here ↑
> ehlo=2 starttls=1 auth=1 mail=0/1 rcpt=0/1 bdat=0/1 quit=1 commands=5/8
ehlo worked (russian leader)
starttls worked
ehlo worked again
authentication worked
mail from (empty) failed
rcpt to not reached
data not reached
quit on their side worked
makes 5 out of 8.
Cheers,
David.
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| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-25 05:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EfXJU-b0tf-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247498 |
On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 05:31:08PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > It looks to me as if you have no /envelope/ sender on some messages. > I don't know whether that's caused by exim, say, failing to rewrite > an address properly, but it seems unlikely that you're going to > compose an email without a From: at the top. (I can't be sure: it > might be possible to compose without showing headers, and there's > also the possibility of sending emails from the command line.) > > You can make mutt ensure that there's an envelope address by setting > either (or both, they interact) of envelope_from_address or > use_envelope_from. AIUI, exim can still select what actually gets > used. I placed these two lines in ~./muttrc/muttrc set envelope_from_address=haines@histomat.net set use_envelope_from=haines@histomat.net but still get 521 5.5.1 Protocol error om outgoing messages.
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-25 06:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EfYFX-b16y-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247504 |
On Sun 24 Apr 2022 at 23:30:34 (-0400), Haines Brown wrote: > On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 05:31:08PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > > It looks to me as if you have no /envelope/ sender on some messages. > > I don't know whether that's caused by exim, say, failing to rewrite > > an address properly, but it seems unlikely that you're going to > > compose an email without a From: at the top. (I can't be sure: it > > might be possible to compose without showing headers, and there's > > also the possibility of sending emails from the command line.) > > > > You can make mutt ensure that there's an envelope address by setting > > either (or both, they interact) of envelope_from_address or > > use_envelope_from. AIUI, exim can still select what actually gets > > used. > > I placed these two lines in ~./muttrc/muttrc > > set envelope_from_address=haines@histomat.net > set use_envelope_from=haines@histomat.net > > but still get 521 5.5.1 Protocol error om outgoing messages. You need to look¹ at exim's logs (/var/log/exim4/mainlog, /var/log/exim4/mainlog.1 and /var/log/exim4/mainlog.*.gz) to see what it's trying to send. There should be a line where mutt hands your email to exim, looking like: DATE TIME UNIQUESTRING <= your-from-address U=username … message-ID the string of interest ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ That should be followed by: DATE TIME SAMESTRING => to-address A=this B=that … Compare these lines for a successful email, which finishes with: … … C="250 2.0.0 Ok: NNNN bytes queued as 12AB34CD56E" DATE TIME SAMESTRING Completed and those for an unsuccessful one. > what does "test-server.example.net" refer to? Sorry for my ignorance. Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example.com ¹ You'll need to be in the adm group, or use sudo, or be root. Cheers, David.
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| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-25 17:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Eg98l-b7Ej-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247506 |
On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 11:31:58PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
>
> You need to look¹ at exim's logs (/var/log/exim4/mainlog,
> /var/log/exim4/mainlog.1 and /var/log/exim4/mainlog.*.gz)
> to see what it's trying to send. There should be a line
> where mutt hands your email to exim
>
> DATE TIME UNIQUESTRING <= your-from-address U=username … message-ID
>
> the string of interest ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
>
> That should be followed by:
>
> DATE TIME SAMESTRING => to-address A=this B=that …
2022-04-24 10:44:02 1nidSz-00068k-QP rejected from <> U=Debian-exim: message to>
Envelope-from: <>
Envelope-to: <root@histomat.net>
I infer that exim is not being given the envelop address of the
sender.
> > what does "test-server.example.net" refer to? Sorry for my ignorance.
>
> Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example.com
Thanks David, but that was not my question. What test server is being
takled about?
I guess that the mail server is my own machine and so try:
$ swaks --to <an email address> ria72@yahoo.com --from haines@histomat.net
...
<- 250 STARTTLS
-> MAIL FROM:<haines@histomat.net>
<** 553 5.7.2 [TSS09] All messages from 32.210.108.191 will be
permanently deferred; Retrying will NOT succeed. See
https://postmaster.yahooinc.com/error-codes
-> QUIT
*** Remote host closed connection unexpectedly.
Incidentally, I get
$ hostname -A
lenin-16.home
that's strange. Should be lenin.histomat.net
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-25 18:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Ega4p-b8ce-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247525 |
On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 11:39:01 (-0400), Haines Brown wrote: > On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 11:31:58PM -0500, David Wright wrote: > > > > You need to look¹ at exim's logs (/var/log/exim4/mainlog, > > /var/log/exim4/mainlog.1 and /var/log/exim4/mainlog.*.gz) > > to see what it's trying to send. There should be a line > > where mutt hands your email to exim > > > > DATE TIME UNIQUESTRING <= your-from-address U=username … message-ID > > > > the string of interest ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ > > > > That should be followed by: > > > > DATE TIME SAMESTRING => to-address A=this B=that … > > 2022-04-24 10:44:02 1nidSz-00068k-QP rejected from <> U=Debian-exim: message to> > Envelope-from: <> > Envelope-to: <root@histomat.net> > > I infer that exim is not being given the envelop address of the > sender. Right, so now we need to know the origin of that particular email. What do the logs show happening at that time. If you, personally, sent it, presumably from mutt, and presumably knowing that you did, then there's a problem in mutt, or in your ability to compose a conforming email. If the system sent it, which seems more likely because it's to root, then we need to determine why the system that sent it didn't "know" who it was. Typical senders include cron, sudo, SMART, etc. Also, you need to check whether "you" is receiving a failed message on the system. Because of the contents of /etc/aliases, this is normally redirected to root/postmaster → root → sysadmin, where sysadmin is the First User (who set up the machine), ie it should arrive in /var/mail/you. > > > what does "test-server.example.net" refer to? Sorry for my ignorance. > > > > Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example.com > > Thanks David, but that was not my question. What test server is being > takled about? > > I guess that the mail server is my own machine and so try: > > $ swaks --to <an email address> ria72@yahoo.com --from haines@histomat.net > ... > <- 250 STARTTLS > -> MAIL FROM:<haines@histomat.net> > <** 553 5.7.2 [TSS09] All messages from 32.210.108.191 will be > permanently deferred; Retrying will NOT succeed. See > https://postmaster.yahooinc.com/error-codes > -> QUIT > *** Remote host closed connection unexpectedly. > > Incidentally, I get > > $ hostname -A > lenin-16.home > > that's strange. Should be lenin.histomat.net Your example demonstrates what example.net (and its companions, com/org/edu) is for: example.net is a real domain, designed for use in internet documentation. $ ping test-server.example.net ping: test-server.example.net: Name or service not known $ ping www.example.net PING www.example.net (93.184.216.34) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 93.184.216.34 (93.184.216.34): icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=25.5 ms ^C --- www.example.net ping statistics --- 1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 25.477/25.477/25.477/0.000 ms $ ping example.net PING example.net (93.184.216.34) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 93.184.216.34 (93.184.216.34): icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=24.1 ms 64 bytes from 93.184.216.34 (93.184.216.34): icmp_seq=2 ttl=57 time=23.6 ms ^C --- example.net ping statistics --- 2 packets transmitted, 2 received, 0% packet loss, time 2ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 23.573/23.857/24.142/0.323 ms $ Why do all telephone numbers in the movies start 555 … Cheers, David.
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-25 19:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Egae5-b8fp-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247525 |
On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 11:39:01 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > 2022-04-24 10:44:02 1nidSz-00068k-QP rejected from <> U=Debian-exim: message to> > Envelope-from: <> > Envelope-to: <root@histomat.net> > > I infer that exim is not being given the envelop address of the > sender. What do have in /etc/mailname? -- Brian.
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| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-25 21:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgcfT-b9Ir-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247530 |
On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 05:52:48PM +0100, Brian wrote: > On Mon 25 Apr 2022 at 11:39:01 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > > 2022-04-24 10:44:02 1nidSz-00068k-QP rejected from <> U=Debian-exim: message to> > > Envelope-from: <> > > Envelope-to: <root@histomat.net> > > > > I infer that exim is not being given the envelop address of the > > sender. > > What do have in /etc/mailname? lenin.histomat.net
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| From | Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-26 11:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Egpwt-bi3W-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247525 |
On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 11:39:01AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: >I infer that exim is not being given the envelop address of the >sender. Quoting /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template: # By default, exim forces a Sender: header containing the local # account name at the local host name in all locally submitted messages # that don't have the local account name at the local host name in the # From: header, deletes any Sender: header present in the submitted # message and forces the envelope sender of all locally submitted # messages to the local account name at the local host name. # The following settings allow local users to specify their own envelope sender # in a locally submitted message. Sender: headers existing in a locally # submitted message are not removed, and no automatic Sender: headers # are added. These settings are fine for most hosts. # If you run exim on a classical multi-user systems where all users # have local mailboxes that can be reached via SMTP from the Internet # with the local FQDN as the domain part of the address, you might want # to disable the following three lines for traceability reasons. .ifndef MAIN_FORCE_SENDER local_from_check = false local_sender_retain = true untrusted_set_sender = * .endif -- Please do not CC me for listmail. 👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland ✎ jmtd@debian.org 🔗 https://jmtd.net
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| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-26 15:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <Egtqp-bkye-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247565 |
On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 10:10:48AM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 11:39:01AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > I infer that exim is not being given the envelop address of the > > sender. > > Quoting /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template: > > # By default, exim forces a Sender: header containing the local > # account name at the local host name in all locally submitted messages > # that don't have the local account name at the local host name in the > # From: header, deletes any Sender: header present in the submitted > # message and forces the envelope sender of all locally submitted > # messages to the local account name at the local host name. > # The following settings allow local users to specify their own envelope sender > # in a locally submitted message. Sender: headers existing in a locally > # submitted message are not removed, and no automatic Sender: headers > # are added. These settings are fine for most hosts. > # If you run exim on a classical multi-user systems where all users > # have local mailboxes that can be reached via SMTP from the Internet > # with the local FQDN as the domain part of the address, you might want > # to disable the following three lines for traceability reasons. > .ifndef MAIN_FORCE_SENDER > local_from_check = false > local_sender_retain = true > untrusted_set_sender = * > .endif > > 👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland > ✎ jmtd@debian.org > 🔗 https://jmtd.net Johathan, many thanks for pointing out the content of exim configuration template. The exim config files are so intimidating that unless there is a reason to so so an amateur like myself tries to avoid them. What I get out of this is that my MUA (mutt) might generate a message that lacks a local account name (I assume it is defined by the content of /etc/mailname, whicn in my case happens to be lenin.histomat.net). I infer this is the value that appaars in the Sender: line of the message header consructed by mutt. The above text describes what exim does if that Sender: line in the header happens to be empt or missing. If I understand correctly, exim deletes the empty Sender: line and instead uses the value of /etc/mailname to be the envelop sender. Is this so? The text goes on to say that if the three lines it specifies at the end are present, it allows the user to specify whatever he/she likes to appear as the envelop's sender. This raises questions. First, the implication seems to be that an empty Sender: line means that mutt is falling down on the job and for some reason this past week ceasad to provide a value for the Sender: line in the header of the some mail it sent to exim. So is the obvious thing to do is fix mutt? Since I've been using the same mutt configuration for years, its not a configuration problem but samage to mutt. Looks like a reinstall and slow reconstruction of its confirturation. I already ran mutt without any configuration and it didn't seem to help. I sumitted by domain name to an online mail tesing site and get "Unverified address: postoffice.omnis.com said: 521 5.5.1 Protocol error." Omnis told me the problem was the Sender: line was empty in some messages.  Another question. The implication is that if the three lines are present in the exim configuration it whould allow the user to specify the envelop sender. Is this merley a statement of fact or is the template file used to construct the exim configuration? If the latter, then I should be able to write my own envelope sender line. I can't imagine why I would want to do that, but if I did, how does one go about doing it? In the exim4 configuraiton routine one defines the define default system mail name. Is this value the name used for the envelope sender? Sometimes I have merely put in the host name and some times appended the domain name to it. Seems to work in either case. When the problem being discussed came up I changed from the former to the latter when I reconfigured exim. It did not help. In exim configuration I hide outgoing local mail name and provide the domain name without prepending host name. I assume this is irrevant and is merley a cosmetic isaue. Is that so?
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| From | Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-26 17:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EguZb-blAM-23@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247567 |
On 2022-04-26 09:25:48 -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > What I get out of this is that my MUA (mutt) might generate a message > that lacks a local account name (I assume it is defined by the content > of /etc/mailname, whicn in my case happens to be lenin.histomat.net). No, /etc/mailname is just the FQDN (or something simpler in some cases). You should just use set use_envelope_from in your muttrc, and provide a valid "From:" header. (I use "set envelope_from", but envelope_from is actually the old name for use_envelope_from.) And make sure that $sendmail is equivalent to "/usr/sbin/sendmail -oem -oi". > Another question. The implication is that if the three lines are > present in the exim configuration it whould allow the user to specify > the envelop sender. FYI, I haven't touched these 3 lines. > Is this merley a statement of fact or is the template file used to > construct the exim configuration? Yes, it is used to generate the configuration file, which is "/var/lib/exim4/config.autogenerated". > In exim configuration I hide outgoing local mail name and provide > the domain name without prepending host name. I assume > this is irrevant and is merley a cosmetic isaue. Is that so? Probably. But if you provide the correct addresses with Mutt, this shouldn't matter. -- Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/> 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/> Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-26 22:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgzYR-botX-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247567 |
On Tue 26 Apr 2022 at 09:25:48 (-0400), Haines Brown wrote: > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 10:10:48AM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 11:39:01AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > > I infer that exim is not being given the envelop address of the > > > sender. > > > > Quoting /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template: > > > > # By default, exim forces a Sender: header containing the local > > # account name at the local host name in all locally submitted messages > > # that don't have the local account name at the local host name in the > > # From: header, deletes any Sender: header present in the submitted > > # message and forces the envelope sender of all locally submitted > > # messages to the local account name at the local host name. > > # The following settings allow local users to specify their own envelope sender > > # in a locally submitted message. Sender: headers existing in a locally > > # submitted message are not removed, and no automatic Sender: headers > > # are added. These settings are fine for most hosts. > > # If you run exim on a classical multi-user systems where all users > > # have local mailboxes that can be reached via SMTP from the Internet > > # with the local FQDN as the domain part of the address, you might want > > # to disable the following three lines for traceability reasons. > > .ifndef MAIN_FORCE_SENDER > > local_from_check = false > > local_sender_retain = true > > untrusted_set_sender = * > > .endif > > > > 👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland > > ✎ jmtd@debian.org > > 🔗 https://jmtd.net > > Johathan, many thanks for pointing out the content of exim > configuration template. The exim config files are so intimidating that > unless there is a reason to so so an amateur like myself tries to > avoid them. I would be very surprised if you had /any/ need to configure exim4 beyond what is offered by Debian's dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config script (which writes /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf for you) and adding a line of credentials to /etc/exim4/passwd.client so that you can authenticate your system to your smarthost. > What I get out of this is that my MUA (mutt) might generate a message > that lacks a local account name (I assume it is defined by the content > of /etc/mailname, whicn in my case happens to be lenin.histomat.net). > I infer this is the value that appaars in the Sender: line of the > message header consructed by mutt. > > The above text describes what exim does if that Sender: line in the > header happens to be empt or missing. If I understand correctly, exim > deletes the empty Sender: line and instead uses the value of > /etc/mailname to be the envelop sender. Is this so? Do you know why mutt is adding a Sender: line to your emails? Did you ask it to, or have you been asked to by someone else? But don't confuse the specific "Sender:" field in the header with the conversational use of "sender" to talk about the person/software/system that's sending the email. (The emails you send here do not contain a Sender: field.) A typical, straightforward, email contains a From: field, which is the email address of the sender (not Sender), as opposed to the recipient (ie the To: field). Again, typically, straightforwardly, the From: and To: fields will be used to generate the envelope's MAIL FROM and RCPT TO addresses. > The text goes on to say that if the three lines it specifies at the > end are present, it allows the user to specify whatever he/she > likes to appear as the envelop's sender. > > This raises questions. > > First, the implication seems to be that an empty Sender: line means > that mutt is falling down on the job and for some reason this past > week ceasad to provide a value for the Sender: line in the header of > the some mail it sent to exim. So is the obvious thing to do is fix > mutt? Since I've been using the same mutt configuration for years, its > not a configuration problem but samage to mutt. Looks like a reinstall > and slow reconstruction of its confirturation. You have to tell mutt what to use. It can't assume that your $LOGNAME and /etc/mailname are, taken together, going to generate a satisfactory From: field for an email. It sounds as if you're making too many assumptions about what mutt can determine about you, like what your sending and receiving email addresses are. (Like in your next line: without any configuration) > I already ran mutt without any configuration and it didn't seem to > help. I sumitted by domain name to an online mail tesing site and get > "Unverified address: postoffice.omnis.com said: 521 5.5.1 Protocol > error." Omnis told me the problem was the Sender: line was empty in > some messages.  This is why I'm struggling to understand your situation. It's not like mutt to randomly choose whether to bother to add fileds to the header. What did Omnis actually say, literally? In your OP, you wrote "554 5.7.1 Empty Sender Address is prohibited through this server; from=<>" I have assumed that "554 5.7.1 Empty Sender Address" is the actual response, and it's capitalised, whereas "is prohibited through this server" is their gloss, uncapitalised. So I don't think it's saying anything about a Sender: field, rather, the MAIL FROM address. (Should I guess that that's Omnis speaking?) > Another question. The implication is that if the three lines are > present in the exim configuration it whould allow the user to specify > the envelop sender. Is this merley a statement of fact or > is the template file used to construct the exim configuration? If the > latter, then I should be able to write my own envelope sender line. > > I can't imagine why I would want to do that, but if I did, how does > one go about doing it? In the exim4 configuraiton routine one defines > the define default system mail name. Is this value the name used for > the envelope sender? Sometimes I have merely put in the host name and > some times appended the domain name to it. Seems to work in either > case. When the problem being discussed came up I changed from the > former to the latter when I reconfigured exim. It did not help. Well, the simple way, which is why I use it, is to put: set envelope_from_address="someuser@somedomain" set use_envelope_from into mutt's configuration file (always assuming it gets read!), as I wrote before. (At this point, I didn't have an inkling of Sender: being involved, and hope that is still true.) The reason /I/ have to do that is that submission to my ISP requires an email address belonging to them. I've never used my ISP's email system beyond logging in to it every so long to prevent it expiring. > In exim configuration I hide outgoing local mail name and provide > the domain name without prepending host name. I assume > this is irrevant and is merley a cosmetic isaue. Is that so? If it's an email address, it shouldn't cause a problem. I'm assuming that you're doing away with lenin, so to speak, which is probably the correct thing to do, as I'm guessing that you don't run a mail server on lenin. Summary: tell mutt who you are. And note that "Sender" gets one very trivial mention in mutt's manual (for tagging emails containing such). Cheers, David.
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| From | Curt <curty@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 11:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgM9H-bw8D-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247585 |
On 2022-04-26, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > > Well, the simple way, which is why I use it, is to put: > > set envelope_from_address="someuser@somedomain" > set use_envelope_from The OP sent me an email off-list in which he informed me he was doing his best and that he'd changed *both* of the following parameters to booleans (yes!). I guess he misunderstood our proofreading. set envelope_from_address set use_envelope_from
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| From | Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 11:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgMt3-bweI-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247596 |
On 2022-04-27 09:19:38 -0000, Curt wrote: > On 2022-04-26, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > > Well, the simple way, which is why I use it, is to put: > > > > set envelope_from_address="someuser@somedomain" > > set use_envelope_from > > The OP sent me an email off-list in which he informed me he was doing > his best and that he'd changed *both* of the following parameters to > booleans (yes!). I guess he misunderstood our proofreading. > > set envelope_from_address > set use_envelope_from Unfortunately, Mutt doesn't output an error when one uses "set variable" for non-boolean variables. -- Vincent Lefèvre <vincent@vinc17.net> - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/> 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/> Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)
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| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 14:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgOEx-bxH5-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247585 |
David. thanks for hanging in with me!
On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 03:23:17PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> Do you know why mutt is adding a Sender: line to your emails?
> Did you ask it to, or have you been asked to by someone else?
No, I didn't ask mutt to add a Sender: line and I do not know what
evidence there it that it is doing so.
If I understand correctly, which is always in serious doubt, it is
exim that constructs the Sender: line by combining /etc/mailname and
$LOCALHOST. Is this so?
These values are present:
$ nano /etec/mailname
lenin.histomat.net
$ echo $LOGNAME
haines
> But don't confuse the specific "Sender:" field in the header with the
> conversational use of "sender" to talk about the person/software/system
> that's sending the email. (The emails you send here do not contain
> a Sender: field.)
Understood. But my impression is not that there is no Sender: field,
but that it is empty (<>).
However I'm not clear whether the field is empthy or that what us
in it field is not owned by me. I have popcorn installed, and it has
root send a priodidic message. The mail server does not recognize
the root@histomats.net address. It sends me this message:
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
survey@popcon.devuan.org
host mail.guardedhost.com [216.239.133.245]
SMTP error from remote mail server after pipelined sending data block:
553 5.7.1 <root@histomat.net>: Sender address rejected:
not owned by user brownh@historicalmaterialism.info
Reporting-MTA: dns; lenin.histomat.net
Action: failed
Final-Recipient: rfc822;survey@popcon.devuan.org
Status: 5.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mail.guardedhost.com
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 553 5.7.1 <root@histomat.net>: Sender
address rejected: not owned by user brownh@historicalmaterialism.info
The address haines@histomat.net is owned by
brownh@historicalmaterialism.info. Omnis mail server never had a
problem with root@histomat.net before.
> A typical, straightforward, email contains a From: field, which is the
> email address of the sender (not Sender), as opposed to the recipient
> (ie the To: field). Again, typically, straightforwardly, the From:
> and To: fields will be used to generate the envelope's MAIL FROM
> and RCPT TO addresses.
Are you saying that the envelope hss MAIL FROM and RCPT TO lines and a
typical email has From: and To: lines? Does this leave it to mutt
to construct the Sender: line?
> > First, the implication seems to be that an empty Sender: line means
> > that mutt is falling down on the job and for some reason this past
> > week ceasad to provide a value for the Sender: line in the header of
> > the some mail it sent to exim. So is the obvious thing to do is fix
> > mutt? Since I've been using the same mutt configuration for years, its
> > not a configuration problem but samage to mutt. Looks like a reinstall
> > and slow reconstruction of its confirturation.
>
> You have to tell mutt what to use. It can't assume that your $LOGNAME
> and /etc/mailname are, taken together, going to generate a satisfactory
> From: field for an email.
And yet it has access to those values. Or should /etc/mailname be
histomat.net rather tnan lenin.histomat.net?
> What did Omnis actually say, literally?
>
> In your OP, you wrote "554 5.7.1 Empty Sender Address
> is prohibited through this server; from=<>"
> (Should I guess that that's Omnis speaking?)
Yes
> I have assumed that "554 5.7.1 Empty Sender Address" is the actual
> response, and it's capitalised, whereas "is prohibited through this
> server" is their gloss, uncapitalised. So I don't think it's saying
> anything about a Sender: field, rather, the MAIL FROM address.
Oh! This hadn't occurred to me. The MAIL FROM belongs to the envelope.
> Well, the simple way, which is why I use it, is to put:
>
> set envelope_from_address="someuser@somedomain"
> set use_envelope_from
>
> into mutt's configuration file (always assuming it gets read!), as
> I wrote before. (At this point, I didn't have an inkling of Sender:
> being involved, and hope that is still true.)
I checked, and the muttrc does get read. I put these two lines into
it:
set envelope_from_address="haines@histomat.net"
set use_envelope_from
If these take immediae effect (without restarting mutt), then they did
not help. The online email testing utility still returns:
Unverified address: postoffice.omnis.com said: 521 5.5.1 Protocol error 
Error in communication with postoffice.omnis.com
What happened to the objection raised by someone tnat the these lines
should have a binary value?
It strikes me that the addition of these lines are just a work around
for the problem that the envelopoe's MAIL FROM line is
unacceptable.
> The reason /I/ have to do that is that submission to my ISP requires
> an email address belonging to them. I've never used my ISP's email
> system beyond logging in to it every so long to prevent it expiring.
Seems like my own situation.
> > In exim configuration I hide outgoing local mail name and provide
> > the domain name without prepending host name. I assume
> > this is irrevant and is merley a cosmetic isaue. Is that so?
>
> If it's an email address, it shouldn't cause a problem. I'm assuming
> that you're doing away with lenin, so to speak, which is probably
> the correct thing to do, as I'm guessing that you don't run a mail
> server on lenin.
Emacs configuration first asks whether to hide the visible domain
name. I answer Yes, and so it asks what that name should be. I enter
histomat.net. But above you say "an email addess". Did you mean just
the domain portion of an address?
> Summary: tell mutt who you are. And note that "Sender" gets one very
> trivial mention in mutt's manual (for tagging emails containing such).
I gather that the two lines above inserted into muttrc should tell
mutt who I am. But why out of the blue have they become necessary? And
without restarting anything they don't keep the online email tester
from saying that haines@histomat.net violates Protocol 521.5.5.1.
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| From | Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 14:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgOXT-bxNA-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247604 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 08:05:46AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > If I understand correctly, which is always in serious doubt, it is > exim that constructs the Sender: line by combining /etc/mailname and > $LOCALHOST. Is this so? > > These values are present: > > $ nano /etec/mailname > lenin.histomat.net Obvious typo. This means you are not pasting results directly from a terminal into an email. Instead, you're re-typing them, and making tons of errors in the process. That makes it super hard to know what is actually real. > $ echo $LOGNAME > haines You mentioned $LOCALHOST before, and now suddenly it's $LOGNAME. > However I'm not clear whether the field is empthy or that what us > in it field is not owned by me. I have popcorn installed, and it has popcon, not popcorn. > root send a priodidic message. The mail server does not recognize > the root@histomats.net address. It sends me this message: *Which* mail server? Who is "it"? > A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its > recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: > > survey@popcon.devuan.org > host mail.guardedhost.com [216.239.133.245] > SMTP error from remote mail server after pipelined sending data block: > 553 5.7.1 <root@histomat.net>: Sender address rejected: > not owned by user brownh@historicalmaterialism.info > > Reporting-MTA: dns; lenin.histomat.net So, this message was generated by your own MTA running on your own computer, after the message was rejected by the receiving MTA. There are many things I do not understand in this error message. For starters, who or what is "host mail.guardedhost.com [216.239.133.245]" and what do they have to do with anything? unicorn:~$ host -t mx popcon.devuan.org popcon.devuan.org mail is handled by 10 mx.devuan.org. unicorn:~$ host mx.devuan.org mx.devuan.org has address 141.95.83.167 There's no mention of mail.guardedhost.com or 216.239.133.245 in DNS at all. It sounds like something on *your* end. Maybe you've configured your MTA to use a smarthost, and mail.guardedhost.com is your smarthost? And if so, it's refusing to relay mail from you as long as you claim to be root@histomat.net instead of brownh@historicalmaterialism.info or something. Also, you appear not to be using Debian, so... all bets are off.
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| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 16:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgQZH-bz13-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247608 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 08:28:27AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 08:05:46AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > If I understand correctly, which is always in serious doubt, it is > > exim that constructs the Sender: line by combining /etc/mailname and > > $LOCALHOST. Is this so? > > > > These values are present: > > > > $ nano /etec/mailname > > lenin.histomat.net > > Obvious typo. This means you are not pasting results directly from a > terminal into an email. Instead, you're re-typing them, and making > tons of errors in the process. That makes it super hard to know what > is actually real. I apologize for the errors. I had just arisen and not yet had my coffe. Also as I approach 90 I make more typos. My eyesight is not so sharp and my fingerwork don't behave as well. > > However I'm not clear whether the field is empthy or that what us > > in it field is not owned by me. I have popcorn installed, and it has > > popcon, not popcorn. > > > root send a priodidic message. The mail server does not recognize > > the root@histomats.net address. It sends me this message: > > *Which* mail server? Who is "it"? A company named Omnis provides me with an email account. I presume it fumctions as a mail server and does my own machine. The error message below came from the former. I simply pasted it. > > A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more > > of > its > > recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: > > > > survey@popcon.devuan.org > > host mail.guardedhost.com [216.239.133.245] > > SMTP error from remote mail server after pipelined sending data block: > > 553 5.7.1 <root@histomat.net>: Sender address rejected: > > not owned by user brownh@historicalmaterialism.info > > > > Reporting-MTA: dns; lenin.histomat.net > So, this message was generated by your own MTA running on your own > computer, after the message was rejected by the receiving MTA. No. This the mesage sent by the receiving MTA, Omnis. > There are many things I do not understand in this error message. For > starters, who or what is "host mail.guardedhost.com [216.239.133.245]" > and what do they have to do with anything? That is the address, less a port number, required by the Omnis server for incoming email messages. > It sounds like something on *your* end. Maybe you've configured your > MTA to use a smarthost, Yes, I did. In exim4 confguration I selected "mail sent by smarthost; received via SMTP or fetchmail". I assume the Omnis mail server accepts mail using the SMTP protocol. > and mail.guardedhost.com is your smarthost? No, that is recipient address provided by Omnis less a port number. I send outgoing email to it. > And if so, it's refusing to relay mail from you as long as you claim > to be root@histomat.net instead of brownh@historicalmaterialism.info > or something. Yes, so it appears. However, popcon has always sent periodic mail presumably from root without this problem. > Also, you appear not to be using Debian, so... all bets are off. Don't my headers show that I'm using Devuan? Devuan is simply Debian without systemd.
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| From | Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 18:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgSyu-bA3O-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247631 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:37:28AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: >Don't my headers show that I'm using Devuan? Devuan is simply Debian >without systemd. And any bugs they have introduced. We cannot handle support for Devuan because we are not responsible for what they release. -- Please do not CC me for listmail. 👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland ✎ jmtd@debian.org 🔗 https://jmtd.net
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| From | Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-04-27 23:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <EgWVr-bCvG-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #247647 |
On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 05:14:34PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:37:28AM -0400, Haines Brown wrote: > > Don't my headers show that I'm using Devuan? Devuan is simply Debian > > without systemd. > > And any bugs they have introduced. We cannot handle support for Devuan > because we are not responsible for what they release. Understood
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