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Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode

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  Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode frantal@libero.it - 2021-12-01 18:20 +0100
    Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> - 2021-12-01 18:30 +0100
    Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-12-01 19:10 +0100
      Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-12-01 19:20 +0100
        Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-12-02 09:10 +0100
      Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> - 2021-12-01 23:50 +0100
        Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-12-02 09:30 +0100
          Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> - 2021-12-02 14:00 +0100
            Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-12-02 17:00 +0100
              Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-12-02 17:10 +0100
                Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-12-02 20:40 +0100
                  Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-12-02 21:30 +0100
                    Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-12-02 23:10 +0100
                      Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-12-03 04:00 +0100
    Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-12-02 10:00 +0100
      Re: Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-12-03 04:00 +0100

#242574 — Double boot (Windows & Debian) with UEFI mode

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I have installed Debian 11 on a Dell T1650 Desktop PC (i7 & 24 GB RAM).

I resized the 1GB HD leaving 300MB on which I installed Debian.

At the request of the installation of Grub I indicated the HD.

Now looking at it with Gparted the HD is divided as follows:
dev / sda1 EFI system partition              (fat32) 100 MiB
dev / sda2 Microsoft reserved Partition (unknown) 16MiB
dev / sda3 Basic data partition (ntfs)                    629.28 GiB
dev / sda5 grub2 core.img                                   1.00 MiB
dev / sda6 ext4                                                  27.94 GiB
dev / sda7 linux-swap                                         977.00 MiB
dev / sda8 ext4                                                   272.71 GiB
dev / sda4 ntfs                                                    520.00 MiB
not allocated not allocated                                     1.71 MiB
What would be better to do to get Grub up and running?

Can I do something to be able to boot on 2 OS (Windows 10 & Debian 11)

Or do I have to make use of rEFInd?

The boot is in UEFI mode.

Thanks for help

Francesco

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#242575

Whats the exact problem? GRUB does not show up and Windows boots
directly? You could try the rescue mode of the installer to reinstall
GRUB, reFind is normally not needed on a PC system to dual boot with
Windows.

Once you get GRUB up and running, you should consider installing the
package os-prober. update-grub will then add the Windows system to the
GRUB menu.

Even in Windows 10 days, updates can overwrite GRUB from time to time,
so you should keep a copy of the Debian installer media for fixing this
when needed.

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#242576

On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 18:18:48 +0100 (CET)
frantal@libero.it wrote:

> I have installed Debian 11 on a Dell T1650 Desktop PC (i7 & 24 GB
> RAM).
> 
> I resized the 1GB HD leaving 300MB on which I installed Debian.

1TB? 300GB?
> 
> At the request of the installation of Grub I indicated the HD.
> 
> Now looking at it with Gparted the HD is divided as follows:
> dev / sda1 EFI system partition              (fat32) 100 MiB
> dev / sda2 Microsoft reserved Partition (unknown) 16MiB
> dev / sda3 Basic data partition (ntfs)                    629.28 GiB
> dev / sda5 grub2 core.img                                   1.00 MiB
> dev / sda6 ext4
> 27.94 GiB dev / sda7 linux-swap
>   977.00 MiB dev / sda8 ext4
>          272.71 GiB dev / sda4 ntfs
>                  520.00 MiB not allocated not allocated
>                       1.71 MiB What would be better to do to get Grub
> up and running?

I've never seen a 'grub2 core.img' before. Maybe someone else knows
what this is. I would expect the grub loader to have installed in the
/dev/sda bootloader area, with the main part in /boot.
> 
> Can I do something to be able to boot on 2 OS (Windows 10 & Debian 11)

Not sure. It is certainly possible to dual-boot Win10 with Debian, I
have a recent sid installation which does that with no problems.
Whether you can get there from where you are, and how correct the Dell
UEFI implementation is, we don't know yet.
> 
> Or do I have to make use of rEFInd?

Shouldn't need to. 

At the very worst, you should be able to boot either from the computer
firmware boot menu, but that should only need to be a temporary
measure. If grub is installed correctly, both OSes should appear on its
menu.
> 
> The boot is in UEFI mode.

Stretch could install in a Win10 dual-boot in UEFI mode fine, so that
shouldn't be a problem today. It Just Worked.

> 
>

What happens when you boot now?

Do you get a grub menu? Does the computer boot straight into Windows?
Does it not boot at all?

UEFI complicates things, since I have two computers using it and
neither of the implementations is correct, in both cases my choice of
default UEFI boot drive gets overridden by the firmware. But that
shouldn't stop grub dual-booting properly. 

-- 
Joe

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#242578

Hi,

frantal@libero.it wrote:
> > Now looking at it with Gparted the HD is divided as follows:
> > ...
> > dev / sda5 grub2 core.img                                   1.00 MiB

Joe wrote:
> I've never seen a 'grub2 core.img' before. Maybe someone else knows
> what this is.

Probably
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS_boot_partition


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#242604

On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 19:15:58 +0100
"Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> frantal@libero.it wrote:
> > > Now looking at it with Gparted the HD is divided as follows:
> > > ...
> > > dev / sda5 grub2 core.img                                   1.00
> > > MiB  
> 
> Joe wrote:
> > I've never seen a 'grub2 core.img' before. Maybe someone else knows
> > what this is.  
> 
> Probably
>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS_boot_partition
> 

That accounts for it, I've never seen a legacy installation on GPT.

-- 
Joe

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#242582

Joe wrote:
> measure. If grub is installed correctly, both OSes should appear on its
> menu.

IIRC, you have to install package os-prober to achieve that.

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#242609

On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 23:44:47 +0100
Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> wrote:

> Joe wrote:
> > measure. If grub is installed correctly, both OSes should appear on
> > its menu.  
> 
> IIRC, you have to install package os-prober to achieve that.
> 

Is that how the installer behaves now? It really doesn't care whether
there are other OSes installed already?

-- 
Joe

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#242617

Am 02.12.21 um 09:26 schrieb Joe:
> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 23:44:47 +0100
> Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>> Joe wrote:
>>> measure. If grub is installed correctly, both OSes should appear on
>>> its menu.  
>>
>> IIRC, you have to install package os-prober to achieve that.
>>
> 
> Is that how the installer behaves now? It really doesn't care whether
> there are other OSes installed already?

To be honest, I don't know exactly what the installer does, if it finds
another OS. Maybe it installs os-prober automatically then.
In my case, I installed Windows later, and I am almost sure that I had
to  install os-prober manually.

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#242622

On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 13:52 +0100, Christian Britz wrote:
> 
> Am 02.12.21 um 09:26 schrieb Joe:
> > On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 23:44:47 +0100
> > Christian Britz <cbritz@t-online.de> wrote:
> > 
> > > Joe wrote:
> > > > measure. If grub is installed correctly, both OSes should appear on
> > > > its menu.  
> > > 
> > > IIRC, you have to install package os-prober to achieve that.
> > > 
> > 
> > Is that how the installer behaves now? It really doesn't care whether
> > there are other OSes installed already?
> 
> To be honest, I don't know exactly what the installer does, if it finds
> another OS.

How would it do that? Detecting other OS's is what the os-prober
package is for. On my machines, os-prober is installed and I always
install to an empty disks and no other disk present apart from the
Debian installer on a USB stick.

>  Maybe it installs os-prober automatically then.
> In my case, I installed Windows later, and I am almost sure that I had
> to  install os-prober manually.

The grub-common package Recommends os-prober, so I would have thought
it would be installed automatically by the installer, unless you've
taken special measures to tell it not to install recommended packages.

-- 
Tixy

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#242624

On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 15:52 +0000, Tixy wrote:
> On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 13:52 +0100, Christian Britz wrote:
> > 
> > To be honest, I don't know exactly what the installer does, if it finds
> > another OS.
> 
> How would it do that? Detecting other OS's is what the os-prober
> package is for.

Answering my own question, the installer may contain and use os-prober
without installing it to the target system.

-- 
Tixy

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#242626

On Thu, 02 Dec 2021 16:08:25 +0000
Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 15:52 +0000, Tixy wrote:
> > On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 13:52 +0100, Christian Britz wrote:  
> > > 
> > > To be honest, I don't know exactly what the installer does, if it
> > > finds another OS.  
> > 
> > How would it do that? Detecting other OS's is what the os-prober
> > package is for.  
> 
> Answering my own question, the installer may contain and use os-prober
> without installing it to the target system.
> 

In which case it should install grub with a pre-awareness of other OSes
present.

Of course, one day an upgrade will be done, update-grub will be run
without os-prober, and any other OS will disappear... that sounds like
something Microsoft would do.

Surely during installation, a check for other OSes should be performed,
and if any are found then os-prober should be installed *and* *enabled*
by default, as it will be needed during every subsequent update-grub. My
sid just had its os-prober disabled by an 'upgrade', and I needed to
tweak the grub defaults to get it back.

Linux used to be promoted on the basis that it could be installed in a
Windows system for evaluation if there was enough spare drive space,
without affecting the Windows installation. It's hardly reasonable to
expect a newcomer to Linux, having apparently lost his Windows
installation, to research and install os-prober to get it back. The
most clueful will simply run a Windows boot repair and forget about
'that damned Linux'.

-- 
Joe

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#242631

On Thu 02 Dec 2021 at 19:30:20 (+0000), Joe wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Dec 2021 16:08:25 +0000 Tixy wrote:
> > On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 15:52 +0000, Tixy wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2021-12-02 at 13:52 +0100, Christian Britz wrote:  
> > > > 
> > > > To be honest, I don't know exactly what the installer does, if it
> > > > finds another OS.  
> > > 
> > > How would it do that? Detecting other OS's is what the os-prober
> > > package is for.  
> > 
> > Answering my own question, the installer may contain and use os-prober
> > without installing it to the target system.
> 
> In which case it should install grub with a pre-awareness of other OSes
> present.
> 
> Of course, one day an upgrade will be done, update-grub will be run
> without os-prober, and any other OS will disappear... that sounds like
> something Microsoft would do.
> 
> Surely during installation, a check for other OSes should be performed,
> and if any are found then os-prober should be installed *and* *enabled*
> by default, as it will be needed during every subsequent update-grub. My
> sid just had its os-prober disabled by an 'upgrade', and I needed to
> tweak the grub defaults to get it back.
> 
> Linux used to be promoted on the basis that it could be installed in a
> Windows system for evaluation if there was enough spare drive space,
> without affecting the Windows installation. It's hardly reasonable to
> expect a newcomer to Linux, having apparently lost his Windows
> installation, to research and install os-prober to get it back. The
> most clueful will simply run a Windows boot repair and forget about
> 'that damned Linux'.

This thread seems to have gone down a rabbit-hole.

$ aptitude why os-prober
i   grub-common Recommends os-prober (>= 1.33)
$ 

It has stretched the minds of people here to work out how to
make the d-i /avoid/ installing Recommends, so I can't see
why this would suddenly happen to a casual newcomer.

Cheers,
David.

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#242633

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 14:29:31 -0600
David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:

  
> 
> This thread seems to have gone down a rabbit-hole.
> 
> $ aptitude why os-prober
> i   grub-common Recommends os-prober (>= 1.33)
> $ 
> 
> It has stretched the minds of people here to work out how to
> make the d-i /avoid/ installing Recommends, so I can't see
> why this would suddenly happen to a casual newcomer.
>
To be fair, it's four or five weeks since I last used an installer, and
I certainly got os-prober then. But a few days ago, os-prober was
disabled in that very installation after an upgrade. I can therefore
easily believe that it could now be omitted on installation. Someone
important considers it unnecessary.

Again, there was a changelog mentioning this and saying how to work
around it, but I feel that a Debian upgrade should not simply disable a
piece of necessary and regularly-used software without at least asking
the user first.

-- 
Joe

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#242637

On Thu 02 Dec 2021 at 22:01:29 (+0000), Joe wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 14:29:31 -0600 David Wright wrote:
> > 
> > This thread seems to have gone down a rabbit-hole.
> > 
> > $ aptitude why os-prober
> > i   grub-common Recommends os-prober (>= 1.33)
> > $ 
> > 
> > It has stretched the minds of people here to work out how to
> > make the d-i /avoid/ installing Recommends, so I can't see
> > why this would suddenly happen to a casual newcomer.
> >
> To be fair, it's four or five weeks since I last used an installer, and
> I certainly got os-prober then. But a few days ago, os-prober was
> disabled in that very installation after an upgrade. I can therefore
> easily believe that it could now be omitted on installation. Someone
> important considers it unnecessary.
> 
> Again, there was a changelog mentioning this and saying how to work
> around it, but I feel that a Debian upgrade should not simply disable a
> piece of necessary and regularly-used software without at least asking
> the user first.

I guess this is why newcomer's don't run sid: it bites occasionally.

This is an upstream change in Grib, isn't it, and mentioned in
news.Debian. Perhaps you could submit a bug to have it brought to
admins attention through debconf (is it?—the one that displays when
you install, and sends the same message as an email to root).

Cheers,
David.

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#242611

Hi,

Joe wrote:
> I've never seen a legacy installation on GPT.

It is suspicious that the partition table has both, a GRUB2 legacy BIOS
partition and an EFI partition:

> >  dev / sda1 EFI system partition         (fat32) 100 MiB
> >  dev / sda5 grub2 core.img                      1.00 MiB

The BIOS partition substitutes for the space between MBR and the start
of the first MBR partition which once was used by GRUB code but in GPT
is occupied by the GPT header and partition table entries.
(The MBR itself can coexist with GPT. But its code size is restricted
to 446 bytes. All further brain has to be loaded by this MBR code from
some other place.)

I understand that it indicates a GRUB2 installation which boots via
legacy BIOS (or EFI's "CSM" mode).
An EFI partition indicates that some system is prepared to boot via
native EFI without CSM.

The original poster, frantal@libero.it, indicated that the installed
Debian is expected to boot via EFI. But i doubt that any MS-Windows
would create a GRUB2 BIOS boot partition.
So something is not as expected. Maybe that BIOS partition is just a
piece of debris from earlier states. But for now it is suspicious.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

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#242638

On Thu 02 Dec 2021 at 09:50:06 (+0100), Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Joe wrote:
> > I've never seen a legacy installation on GPT.

It might help if people pasted output into their posts, rather
than paraphrasing it so that we have to do the work to figure
out its meaning.

> It is suspicious that the partition table has both, a GRUB2 legacy BIOS
> partition and an EFI partition:
> 
> > >  dev / sda1 EFI system partition         (fat32) 100 MiB
> > >  dev / sda5 grub2 core.img                      1.00 MiB
> 
> The BIOS partition substitutes for the space between MBR and the start
> of the first MBR partition which once was used by GRUB code but in GPT
> is occupied by the GPT header and partition table entries.
> (The MBR itself can coexist with GPT. But its code size is restricted
> to 446 bytes. All further brain has to be loaded by this MBR code from
> some other place.)
> 
> I understand that it indicates a GRUB2 installation which boots via
> legacy BIOS (or EFI's "CSM" mode).
> An EFI partition indicates that some system is prepared to boot via
> native EFI without CSM.
> 
> The original poster, frantal@libero.it, indicated that the installed
> Debian is expected to boot via EFI. But i doubt that any MS-Windows
> would create a GRUB2 BIOS boot partition.
> So something is not as expected. Maybe that BIOS partition is just a
> piece of debris from earlier states. But for now it is suspicious.

I would agree: its presence here has to be explained.

I actually install one on every system disk. It wastes no space
because it sets the alignment to my preferred 4MB. Two of my
systems wouldn't without it as they're still BIOS-boot, on GPT.

Device         Start       End   Sectors   Size Type
/dev/sda1       2048      8191      6144     3M BIOS boot
/dev/sda2       8192   1023999   1015808   496M EFI System
  [ … ]

I also had to add one to a dual-booting Lenovo as I booted
it in CSM to avoid touching the EFI boot configuration.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/05/msg00454.html
So it's possible that the OP followed a well-written Howto
that didn't make assumptions, but it's also possible they
only /think/ they're booting Debian in EFI, seeing as they're
unable to boot linux at all at present.

I would've liked to have seen their   ls /sys/firmware/efi
while they had a running linux system.

Cheers,
David.

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