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Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder

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  Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder lists.debian@netc.eu <lists.debian@netc.eu> - 2021-11-26 09:40 +0100
    Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-11-26 13:00 +0100
    Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-11-26 20:40 +0100
      Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-11-26 20:40 +0100
        Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2021-11-26 22:00 +0100
          Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-11-26 23:30 +0100
            Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2021-11-27 04:10 +0100
      Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-11-27 12:20 +0100
    Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-11-26 22:00 +0100
    Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder Chuck Zmudzinski <brchuckz@netscape.net> - 2021-11-27 19:50 +0100
      Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder lists.debian@netc.eu <lists.debian@netc.eu> - 2021-11-28 17:50 +0100
        Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-11-28 22:20 +0100
          Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder lists.debian@netc.eu <lists.debian@netc.eu> - 2021-11-29 23:30 +0100
            Re: Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-11-30 05:50 +0100

#242409 — Impossible to give "write" permission on a sub folder

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Hello to all, I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11 This PC has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a HDD where I store all other files (documents, music, images, ...) The goal is to share this HDD between Windows and Debian. To do it, I added the following line to the fstab file: > > UUID=ACB23705B236D414 /mnt/windows ntfs-3g defaults,umask=000 0 0 > the folders lount without any problem to /mnt/windows, all with the correct permission settings (rwx) : > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/ > > total 80 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 14 nov. 20:20 '$RECYCLE.BIN' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 CloudStation > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 11:44 Documents > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 25 juin 08:15 DumpStack.log.tmp > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 22 nov. 20:41 Images > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 11:53 Music > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 23 nov. 06:21 'System Volume Information' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 40960 21 nov. 22:22 Downloads > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 19:44 Videos > My problem is that in some sub folders, I'm not getting the write ("w") permission. For example on the "Documents" one: > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/Documents/ > > total 117 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 15:59 User1 > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 26 nov. 2020 Default.rdp > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 432 11 mars 2021 desktop.ini > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 40960 24 nov. 15:59 User2 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 16:00 Public > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 User3 > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 20480 21 nov. 12:05 Scan > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18432 4 déc. 2016 Thumbs.db > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 16 nov. 23:13 'Unified Remote' > Most of the folders are OK, but I ave User2 and San that doesn't have the write ("w") permission... Do you have any idea on whats going on? Thanks in advance for all the help, Berst regards, Marc

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#242414

Top posting intentionally -- please don't post in HTML, it is very hard to 
read.

On Friday, November 26, 2021 03:29:50 AM lists.debian@netc.eu wrote:
> Hello to all, I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11 This PC
> has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a HDD where I
> store all other files (documents, music, images, ...) The goal is to share
> this HDD between Windows and Debian. To do it, I added the following line
> to the fstab file: > > UUID=ACB23705B236D414 /mnt/windows ntfs-3g
> defaults,umask=000 0 0 > the folders lount without any problem to
> /mnt/windows, all with the correct permission settings (rwx) : > > $ ls -l
> /mnt/windows/ > > total 80 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 14 nov. 20:20
> '$RECYCLE.BIN' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 CloudStation
> > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 11:44 Documents > > -rwxrwxrwx 1
> root root 8192 25 juin 08:15 DumpStack.log.tmp > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root
> 4096 22 nov. 20:41 Images > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 11:53
> Music > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 23 nov. 06:21 'System Volume
> Information' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 40960 21 nov. 22:22 Downloads > >
> drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 19:44 Videos > My problem is that in
> some sub folders, I'm not getting the write ("w") permission. For example
> on the "Documents" one: > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/Documents/ > > total 117
> > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 15:59 User1 > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root
> root 0 26 nov. 2020 Default.rdp > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 432 11 mars
> 2021 desktop.ini > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 40960 24 nov. 15:59 User2 > >
> drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 16:00 Public > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root
> root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 User3 > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 20480 21 nov.
> 12:05 Scan > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18432 4 déc. 2016 Thumbs.db > >
> drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 16 nov. 23:13 'Unified Remote' > Most of the
> folders are OK, but I ave User2 and San that doesn't have the write ("w")
> permission... Do you have any idea on whats going on? Thanks in advance
> for all the help, Berst regards, Marc

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#242424

On Fri 26 Nov 2021 at 09:29:50 +0100, lists.debian@netc.eu wrote:

> Hello to all, I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11 This PC has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a HDD where I store all other files (documents, music, images, ...) The goal is to share this HDD between Windows and Debian. To do it, I added the following line to the fstab file: > > UUID=ACB23705B236D414 /mnt/windows ntfs-3g defaults,umask=000 0 0 > the folders lount without any problem to /mnt/windows, all with the correct permission settings (rwx) : > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/ > > total 80 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 14 nov. 20:20 '$RECYCLE.BIN' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 CloudStation > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 11:44 Documents > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 25 juin 08:15 DumpStack.log.tmp > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 22 nov. 20:41 Images > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 11:53 Music > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 23 nov. 06:21 'System Volume Information' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 40960 21 nov. 22:22 Downloads > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 19:44 Videos > My problem is that in some sub folders, I'm not getting the write ("w") permission. For example on the "Documents" one: > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/Documents/ > > total 117 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 15:59 User1 > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 26 nov. 2020 Default.rdp > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 432 11 mars 2021 desktop.ini > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 40960 24 nov. 15:59 User2 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 16:00 Public > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 User3 > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 20480 21 nov. 12:05 Scan > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18432 4 déc. 2016 Thumbs.db > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 16 nov. 23:13 'Unified Remote' > Most of the folders are OK, but I ave User2 and San that doesn't have the write ("w") permission... Do you have any idea on whats going on? Thanks in advance for all the help, Berst regards, Marc

lists.debian@netc.eu - how do you manage to produce something as
completely undecipherable as what is is above? Please up your game.

-- 
Brian.

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#242425

On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 07:30:32PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 26 Nov 2021 at 09:29:50 +0100, lists.debian@netc.eu wrote:
> 
> > Hello to all, I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11 This PC has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a HDD where I store all other files (documents, music, images, ...) The goal is to share this HDD betwee
[...]

> lists.debian@netc.eu - how do you manage to produce something as
> completely undecipherable as what is is above?

By removing all the newlines (or replacing them with spaces).

Most likely the way they did *that* was by writing their email in a web
browser, running a web-based MUA of particularly low quality, which then
produces a plain-text part with all the newlines clobbered.

Presumably there is also an HTML part which is actually comprehensible
to humans.  I didn't check, but it's a fair assumption.  Otherwise, who
the *hell* would use this particular MUA?

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#242428

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On Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 2:37 PM Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 07:30:32PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 26 Nov 2021 at 09:29:50 +0100, lists.debian@netc.eu wrote:
> >
> > > Hello to all, I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11 This
> PC has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a HDD where I
> store all other files (documents, music, images, ...) The goal is to share
> this HDD betwee
> [...]
>
> > lists.debian@netc.eu - how do you manage to produce something as
> > completely undecipherable as what is is above?
>
> By removing all the newlines (or replacing them with spaces).
>
> Most likely the way they did *that* was by writing their email in a web
> browser, running a web-based MUA of particularly low quality, which then
> produces a plain-text part with all the newlines clobbered.
>
> Presumably there is also an HTML part which is actually comprehensible
> to humans.  I didn't check, but it's a fair assumption.  Otherwise, who
> the *hell* would use this particular MUA?
>

I am on Gmail, and got something that looks "normal".  (Comprehensible to
Gmail?) This tells me that Gmail gets, only the HTML part, and ignores the
Plain Text part.

Kenneth Parker

>

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#242432

On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 15:50:04 -0500
Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Presumably there is also an HTML part which is actually
> > comprehensible to humans.  I didn't check, but it's a fair
> > assumption.

Correct, there are two parts. One is plain text, and all scrunched into
an unreadable blob. The other is HTML, and is at least readable.

> 
> I am on Gmail, and got something that looks "normal".
> (Comprehensible to Gmail?) This tells me that Gmail gets, only the
> HTML part, and ignores the Plain Text part.

Gmail gets both. It then displays the HTML part. Whether it keeps the
text part or not, I do not know. You might see if you can display the
mime information of the email.



-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#242437

On Sat, 27 Nov 2021 at 09:20, Charles Curley
<charlescurley@charlescurley.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 15:50:04 -0500 Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> wrote:

> Correct, there are two parts. One is plain text, and all scrunched into
> an unreadable blob. The other is HTML, and is at least readable.

> > I am on Gmail, and got something that looks "normal".
> > (Comprehensible to Gmail?) This tells me that Gmail gets, only the
> > HTML part, and ignores the Plain Text part.

> Gmail gets both. It then displays the HTML part. Whether it keeps the
> text part or not, I do not know. You might see if you can display the
> mime information of the email.

For the benefit of interested parties, if any :) ...

Like all other recipients, Gmail users will have received all
(including Content-Type=text/plain and Content-Type=text/html)
parts of the message.

This can be seen in my Gmail web interface by selecting "Show
original" in the menu that is displayed by the three-vertical-dots
icon at the top-right of the message pane. This opens another
browser tab in Firefox to show the actual, complete, message.

When both text and html parts are present, Gmail displays only the
html part in the message pane that readers see normally, unless they
perform the action described above

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#242441

On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 07:30:32PM +0000, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 26 Nov 2021 at 09:29:50 +0100, lists.debian@netc.eu wrote:
> 
Hello to all, I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11 
This PC has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a HDD 
where I store all other files (documents, music, images, ...) 
The goal is to share this HDD between Windows and Debian. 
To do it, I added the following line to the fstab file: 
 
UUID=ACB23705B236D414 /mnt/windows ntfs-3g defaults,umask=000 0 0 
 
the folders lount without any problem to /mnt/windows, all with the 
correct permission settings (rwx) : 

 $ ls -l /mnt/windows/ > > total 80 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 14 nov. 20:20 '$RECYCLE.BIN' 
 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 CloudStation 
 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 11:44 Documents > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 25 juin 08:15 DumpStack.log.tmp 
 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 22 nov. 20:41 Images > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 11:53 Music 
 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 23 nov. 06:21 'System Volume Information' 
 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 40960 21 nov. 22:22 Downloads 
 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 19:44 Videos 
 
My problem is that in some sub folders, I'm not getting the write ("w") 
permission. For example on the "Documents" one: 

 $ ls -l /mnt/windows/Documents/ 
 total 117 
 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 15:59 User1 
 -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 26 nov. 2020 Default.rdp 
 -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 432 11 mars 2021 desktop.ini 
 dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 40960 24 nov. 15:59 User2 
 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 16:00 Public 
 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 User3 
 dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 20480 21 nov. 12:05 Scan 
 -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18432 4 déc. 2016 Thumbs.db 
 drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 16 nov. 23:13 'Unified Remote' 
 
Most of the folders are OK, but I ave User2 and San that doesn't have the 
write ("w") permission... 

Do you have any idea on whats going on? 
Thanks in advance for all the help, 

Berst regards, Marc
> 
> lists.debian@netc.eu - how do you manage to produce something as
> completely undecipherable as what is is above? Please up your game.
> 
> -- 
> Brian.
> 

Reformatted minus a lot of the HTML to the best of my ability - hope this
helps the list.

Andy C

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#242430

On 11/26/21 12:29 AM, lists.debian@netc.eu wrote:
> Hello to all,
> I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11
> This PC has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a HDD 
> where I store all other files (documents, music, images, ...)
> The goal is to share this HDD between Windows and Debian. To do it, I 
> added the following line to the fstab file:
> 
>     UUID=ACB23705B236D414 /mnt/windows    ntfs-3g defaults,umask=000  
>       0   0
> 
> the folders lount without any problem to /mnt/windows, all with the 
> correct permission settings (rwx) :
> 
>     $ ls -l /mnt/windows/
>     total 80
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 14 nov. 20:20 '$RECYCLE.BIN'
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 CloudStation
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 11:44 Documents
>     -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 25 juin 08:15 DumpStack.log.tmp
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 22 nov. 20:41 Images
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 11:53 Music
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 23 nov. 06:21 'System Volume Information'
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 40960 21 nov. 22:22 Downloads
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 19:44 Videos
> 
> My problem is that in some sub folders, I'm not getting the write ("w") 
> permission. For example on the "Documents" one:
> 
>     $ ls -l /mnt/windows/Documents/
>     total 117
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 15:59 User1
>     -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 26 nov. 2020 Default.rdp
>     -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 432 11 mars 2021 desktop.ini
>     dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 40960 24 nov. 15:59 User2
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 16:00 Public
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 User3
>     dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 20480 21 nov. 12:05 Scan
>     -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18432 4 déc. 2016 Thumbs.db
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 16 nov. 23:13 'Unified Remote'
> 
> Most of the folders are OK, but I ave User2 and San that doesn't have 
> the write ("w") permission...
> Do you have any idea on whats going on?
> Thanks in advance for all the help,
> Berst regards,
> Marc


Please configure your e-mail client to compose and send messages in 
"plain text" format, not HTML.


The Windows disk/ partition/ volume/ filesystem stack and the Linux 
stack are fundamentally different.  When using one filesystem with both 
operating systems, features and interoperability are opposites.  A 
simple filesystem, such as FAT, has minimum features and maximum 
interoperability.  A complex file system, such as NTFS, has maximum 
features and minimum interoperability.


If you want to know the reasons behind the interoperability effects that 
you are seeing with NTFS under Linux, then I suggest that you study 
Windows drive/ partition/ volume/ filesystem technical documents, the 
corresponding Linux technical documents, and the Linux ntfs-3g driver.


If you want a disk/ partition/ volume/ filesystem that "just works" with 
both Windows and Linux, then I suggest that you backup your data, zero 
the HDD, use Windows to partition the HDD, use Windows to format the 
partition using the exFAT filesystem, and restore your data.  This 
should give you a filesystem that all users and processes can access 
under both Windows and Linux.  If you want to limit access to all or 
part of the disk, then one solution is to create multiple partitions and 
filesystems, and mount each as required.


David

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#242446

Read the ntfs-3 man page.

Take a look at the man page for ntfs-3g, the section on
Access Handling and Security:

 From the ntfs-3g man page:
------------------------------------------------------------
    Access Handling and Security
        By default, files and directories are owned by the effective 
user and group of the mounting process,  and  ev‐
        erybody  has  full read, write, execution and directory browsing 
permissions.  You can also assign permissions
        to a single user by using the uid and/or the gid options 
together with the umask, or fmask and dmask options.

        Doing so, Windows users have full access to the files created by 
ntfs-3g.

        But, by setting the permissions option, you can benefit from the 
full ownership and  permissions  features  as
        defined  by  POSIX.  Moreover, by defining a Windows-to-Linux 
user mapping, the ownerships and permissions are
        even applied to Windows users and conversely.

        If ntfs-3g is set setuid-root then non-root users will be also 
able to mount volumes.
------------------------------------------------------------

You use the defaults option when mounting. I do not know how that
affects access and security for ntfs-3g. I would suggest either using
uid and gid options when mounting instead, or using the
usermapping file that maps Windows users to Debian users.

You need to check which user under Windows owns those folders, which Windows
users have write access to those folders, etc.

As mentioned in the man page, there is a way to map Windows users to
Debian 11 users using the default .NTFS-3G/UserMapping file or a
custom usermapping file with the usermapping mount option.

I used this feature a long time ago, and the format for the usermapping
file is documented in the ntfs-3g man page.

As is said at the beginning of this reply, read the ntfs-3g man page!

HTH,

Chuck

On 11/26/2021 3:29 AM, lists.debian@netc.eu wrote:
> Hello to all,
> I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11
> This PC has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a 
> HDD where I store all other files (documents, music, images, ...)
> The goal is to share this HDD between Windows and Debian. To do it, I 
> added the following line to the fstab file:
>
>     UUID=ACB23705B236D414 /mnt/windows  ntfs-3g defaults,umask=000  
>      0   0
>
> the folders lount without any problem to /mnt/windows, all with the 
> correct permission settings (rwx) :
>
>     $ ls -l /mnt/windows/
>     total 80
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 14 nov. 20:20 '$RECYCLE.BIN'
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 CloudStation
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 11:44 Documents
>     -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 25 juin 08:15 DumpStack.log.tmp
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 22 nov. 20:41 Images
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 11:53 Music
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 23 nov. 06:21 'System Volume Information'
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 40960 21 nov. 22:22 Downloads
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 19:44 Videos
>
> My problem is that in some sub folders, I'm not getting the write 
> ("w") permission. For example on the "Documents" one:
>
>     $ ls -l /mnt/windows/Documents/
>     total 117
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 15:59 User1
>     -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 26 nov. 2020 Default.rdp
>     -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 432 11 mars 2021 desktop.ini
>     dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 40960 24 nov. 15:59 User2
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 16:00 Public
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 User3
>     dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 20480 21 nov. 12:05 Scan
>     -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18432 4 déc. 2016 Thumbs.db
>     drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 16 nov. 23:13 'Unified Remote'
>
> Most of the folders are OK, but I ave User2 and San that doesn't have 
> the write ("w") permission...
> Do you have any idea on whats going on?
> Thanks in advance for all the help,
> Berst regards,
> Marc

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#242473

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Thansk for the answer. To be honest to you, I already checked all that. Both User1 and User2 folders have have exactly the same permission sets on Windows (they both herit them from the Documents folder). I did also tried to use the usermap file, but I must say that I didn't managed to do it. I didn't found the Windows zip file to download from the NTFS-3G website and the Linux one I didn't managed to understand once I launch it. I did some tests, and I think that I I can't find a way to do it this week I will end by recreate this folders. In my tests it worked well :( Best regards, Marc Le 2021-11-27 19:39, Chuck Zmudzinski <brchuckz@netscape.net> a écrit : > > Read the ntfs-3 man page. > > Take a look at the man page for ntfs-3g, the section on > Access Handling and Security: > > From the ntfs-3g man page: > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Access Handling and Security > By default, files and directories are owned by the effective > user and group of the mounting process, and ev‐ > erybody has full read, write, execution and directory browsing > permissions. You can also assign permissions > to a single user by using the uid and/or the gid options > together with the umask, or fmask and dmask options. > > Doing so, Windows users have full access to the files created by > ntfs-3g. > > But, by setting the permissions option, you can benefit from the > full ownership and permissions features as > defined by POSIX. Moreover, by defining a Windows-to-Linux > user mapping, the ownerships and permissions are > even applied to Windows users and conversely. > > If ntfs-3g is set setuid-root then non-root users will be also > able to mount volumes. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > You use the defaults option when mounting. I do not know how that > affects access and security for ntfs-3g. I would suggest either using > uid and gid options when mounting instead, or using the > usermapping file that maps Windows users to Debian users. > > You need to check which user under Windows owns those folders, which Windows > users have write access to those folders, etc. > > As mentioned in the man page, there is a way to map Windows users to > Debian 11 users using the default .NTFS-3G/UserMapping file or a > custom usermapping file with the usermapping mount option. > > I used this feature a long time ago, and the format for the usermapping > file is documented in the ntfs-3g man page. > > As is said at the beginning of this reply, read the ntfs-3g man page! > > HTH, > > Chuck > > On 11/26/2021 3:29 AM, lists.debian@netc.eu wrote: > > Hello to all, > > I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11 > > This PC has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a > > HDD where I store all other files (documents, music, images, ...) > > The goal is to share this HDD between Windows and Debian. To do it, I > > added the following line to the fstab file: > > > > UUID=ACB23705B236D414 /mnt/windows ntfs-3g defaults,umask=000 > > 0 0 > > > > the folders lount without any problem to /mnt/windows, all with the > > correct permission settings (rwx) : > > > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/ > > total 80 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 14 nov. 20:20 '$RECYCLE.BIN' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 CloudStation > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 11:44 Documents > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 25 juin 08:15 DumpStack.log.tmp > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 22 nov. 20:41 Images > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 11:53 Music > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 23 nov. 06:21 'System Volume Information' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 40960 21 nov. 22:22 Downloads > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 19:44 Videos > > > > My problem is that in some sub folders, I'm not getting the write > > ("w") permission. For example on the "Documents" one: > > > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/Documents/ > > total 117 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 15:59 User1 > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 26 nov. 2020 Default.rdp > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 432 11 mars 2021 desktop.ini > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 40960 24 nov. 15:59 User2 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 16:00 Public > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 User3 > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 20480 21 nov. 12:05 Scan > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18432 4 déc. 2016 Thumbs.db > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 16 nov. 23:13 'Unified Remote' > > > > Most of the folders are OK, but I ave User2 and San that doesn't have > > the write ("w") permission... > > Do you have any idea on whats going on? > > Thanks in advance for all the help, > > Berst regards, > > Marc > >

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#242498

On Sun 28 Nov 2021 at 17:45:33 (+0100), lists.debian@netc.eu wrote:
> Thansk for the answer. To be honest to you, I already checked all that. Both User1 and User2 folders have have exactly the same permission sets on Windows (they both herit them from the Documents folder).

Were this a windows list, we'd expect you to demonstrate this with
some pasted output.

NTFS permissions and their inheritance is complicated, can be
"broken" (intentional) and corrupted (eg interrupting the
inheritance chain updates) but mendable. So one would need
evidence of clean, up-to-date metadata.

> I did also tried to use the usermap file, but I must say that I didn't managed to do it. I didn't found the Windows zip file to download from the NTFS-3G website and the Linux one I didn't managed to understand once I launch it.

I drafted a reply before Chuck's arrived. I wrote:

    You probably need to become very familiar with   man ntfs-3g
    particularly with:

    "On computers which can be dual-booted into Windows or Linux,
     Windows has to be fully shut down before booting into Linux"

and:

    Regardless of what's shown here, have you written to the filesystem
    from linux at all? (Note that I'm not asking you to try.) Or IOW, is
    the partition listed as rw or ro by mount?

    "If either Windows is hibernated or its fast restart is enabled,
     partitions on internal disks are forced to be mounted in read-only mode."

    Next is working your way through "Access Handling and Security"
    and then appreciating that "umask=value Set[s] the bitmask of the file
    and directory permissions /that are not present/. … The default value
    is 0 which means full access to everybody." (My emphasis.)

In view of your reported struggles to understand above, I would think
carefully about what exectly you are trying to communicate between
windows and linux.

. Are you actually relying on permissions because User 1,2,3 are
  different people whose data needs protecting, or are they different
  facets of yourself (personal, work, financial, etc.)

. Do the files require preservation of windows metadata. (Eg, if you
  were sharing "C:\WINDOWS", one wouldn't want to interfere with
  metadata that the OS relies upon.)

Then I would decide on whether your shared filesystem would really
be better served by being simple, like exFAT (DC's choice, I've no
experience) or FAT32.

> I did some tests, and I think that I I can't find a way to do it this week I will end by recreate this folders. In my tests it worked well :(

And without understanding what caused the problem, just touch wood and
hope it doesn't happen again? Not the way I'd want to run a system.
For example, what tool would you use to check it and preen it?
(Disclaimer: we have no idea what these "tests" were.)

Cheers,
David.

> Le 2021-11-27 19:39, Chuck Zmudzinski <brchuckz@netscape.net> a écrit : > > Read the ntfs-3 man page. > > Take a look at the man page for ntfs-3g, the section on > Access Handling and Security: > > From the ntfs-3g man page: > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Access Handling and Security > By default, files and directories are owned by the effective > user and group of the mounting process, and ev‐ > erybody has full read, write, execution and directory browsing > permissions. You can also assign permissions > to a single user by using the uid and/or the gid options > together with the umask, or fmask and dmask options. > > Doing so, Windows users have full access to the files created by > ntfs-3g. > > But, by setting the permissions option, you can benefit from the > full ownership and permissions features as > defined by POSIX. Moreover, by defining a Windows-to-Linux > user mapping, the ownerships and permissions are > even applied to Windows users and conversely. > > If ntfs-3g is set setuid-root then non-root users will be also > able to mount volumes. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > You use the defaults option when mounting. I do not know how that > affects access and security for ntfs-3g. I would suggest either using > uid and gid options when mounting instead, or using the > usermapping file that maps Windows users to Debian users. > > You need to check which user under Windows owns those folders, which Windows > users have write access to those folders, etc. > > As mentioned in the man page, there is a way to map Windows users to > Debian 11 users using the default .NTFS-3G/UserMapping file or a > custom usermapping file with the usermapping mount option. > > I used this feature a long time ago, and the format for the usermapping > file is documented in the ntfs-3g man page. > > As is said at the beginning of this reply, read the ntfs-3g man page! > > HTH, > > Chuck > > On 11/26/2021 3:29 AM, lists.debian@netc.eu wrote: > > Hello to all, > > I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11 > > This PC has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a > > HDD where I store all other files (documents, music, images, ...) > > The goal is to share this HDD between Windows and Debian. To do it, I > > added the following line to the fstab file: > > > > UUID=ACB23705B236D414 /mnt/windows ntfs-3g defaults,umask=000 > > 0 0 > > > > the folders lount without any problem to /mnt/windows, all with the > > correct permission settings (rwx) : > > > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/ > > total 80 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 14 nov. 20:20 '$RECYCLE.BIN' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 CloudStation > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 11:44 Documents > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 25 juin 08:15 DumpStack.log.tmp > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 22 nov. 20:41 Images > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 11:53 Music > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 23 nov. 06:21 'System Volume Information' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 40960 21 nov. 22:22 Downloads > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 19:44 Videos > > > > My problem is that in some sub folders, I'm not getting the write > > ("w") permission. For example on the "Documents" one: > > > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/Documents/ > > total 117 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 15:59 User1 > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 26 nov. 2020 Default.rdp > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 432 11 mars 2021 desktop.ini > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 40960 24 nov. 15:59 User2 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 16:00 Public > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 User3 > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 20480 21 nov. 12:05 Scan > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18432 4 déc. 2016 Thumbs.db > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 16 nov. 23:13 'Unified Remote' > > > > Most of the folders are OK, but I ave User2 and San that doesn't have > > the write ("w") permission... > > Do you have any idea on whats going on? > > Thanks in advance for all the help, > > Berst regards, > > Marc > >

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#242519

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Hello David, really thank you for your reply. I'll try to explain my needs and all info that I can have in order to answer your questions the best way I can: First I will explain my goal: I have always been a Windows user, but for a while I've been thinking in changing to Linux. Last month I decided to do the change, but as we are 2 people at home (me and my wife), I've decided to do a dual boot while I can do all settings and familiarize myself with Debian, while she will still be using Windows (she is not a tech woman, she only wants something that works easily). So I want to be able to access and modify documents on the folders on Debian and Windows, as me and my wife have documents in common on these folders. As I stated before, the computer has 2 physical drives, one SSD with the 2 OSs and a HDD with all the data files (documents, pictures, ...) This drive is meant to be shared between all users, and the folders are there only for organisational purposes. For example: - HDD ----Documents --------User1 --------User2 --------Public ----Images --------User1 --------User2 --------Public As I said, the permissions on the subfolder are herited from the parent ones: User1, User2 and Public folder's permissions are herited from Documents or Images. Here is a PowerShell "Get-ACL" output from the 2 user's documents folders: > > PS C:\Windows\system32> cd D:\Documents\User2\ > PS D:\Documents\User2> Get-Acl | Format-Table -Wrap > > Répertoire : D:\Documents > > Path Owner Access > ---- ----- ------ > User2 PC-01\Admin AUTORITE NT\Système Allow FullControl > BUILTIN\Administrateurs Allow FullControl > PC-01\Admin Allow FullControl > PC-01\user1 Allow FullControl > PC-01\user2 Allow FullControl > Tout le monde Allow Write, ReadAndExecute, Synchronize > > PS D:\Documents\User2> cd ..\User1\ > PS D:\Documents\User1> Get-Acl | Format-Table -Wrap > > Répertoire : D:\Documents > > Path Owner Access > ---- ----- ------ > User1 PC-01\Admin AUTORITE NT\Système Allow FullControl > BUILTIN\Administrateurs Allow FullControl > PC-01\Admin Allow FullControl > PC-01\user1 Allow FullControl > PC-01\user2 Allow FullControl > Tout le monde Allow Write, ReadAndExecute, Synchronize > > PS D:\Documents\User1> If I suppose that these settings are the same, I think I could suppose that after a mount, both of these folders would have the same permission settings on Debian, but thats not the case. I also disable fast boot and hibernation on the Windows side: - I first went to power button settings and disabled the fast boot - then I went to PowerShell and did powercfg -h off - at last, I checked the group policies settings to be sure that hibernation was forced on the system As for the tests I did with some new folders: - first I created a "linuxTestFolder" on Debian - "sudo mkdir /mnt/windows/Documents/linuxTestFolder": - this folder was created with "rwxrwxrwx" permissions and I have full access on Debian. - I can also use this folder on Windows, and it's permissions are "Everybody full control" - I can create and edit files on both OSs - second I created a "windowsTestFolder" on Windows, with the same inherit permissions as User1 and User2 - "Add new folder" button on Windows explorer: - after the mount on Debian, this folder have "rwxrwxrwx" permissions and I have full access - I can also use this folder on Windows - I can create and edit files on both OSs This permission history is really puzzeling me... Maybe there are other Windows settings that I can't see with get-acl ? Bet regards, Marc Le 2021-11-28 22:14, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> a écrit : > > On Sun 28 Nov 2021 at 17:45:33 (+0100), lists.debian@netc.eu wrote: > > Thansk for the answer. To be honest to you, I already checked all that. Both User1 and User2 folders have have exactly the same permission sets on Windows (they both herit them from the Documents folder). > > Were this a windows list, we'd expect you to demonstrate this with > some pasted output. > > NTFS permissions and their inheritance is complicated, can be > "broken" (intentional) and corrupted (eg interrupting the > inheritance chain updates) but mendable. So one would need > evidence of clean, up-to-date metadata. > > > I did also tried to use the usermap file, but I must say that I didn't managed to do it. I didn't found the Windows zip file to download from the NTFS-3G website and the Linux one I didn't managed to understand once I launch it. > > I drafted a reply before Chuck's arrived. I wrote: > > You probably need to become very familiar with man ntfs-3g > particularly with: > > "On computers which can be dual-booted into Windows or Linux, > Windows has to be fully shut down before booting into Linux" > > and: > > Regardless of what's shown here, have you written to the filesystem > from linux at all? (Note that I'm not asking you to try.) Or IOW, is > the partition listed as rw or ro by mount? > > "If either Windows is hibernated or its fast restart is enabled, > partitions on internal disks are forced to be mounted in read-only mode." > > Next is working your way through "Access Handling and Security" > and then appreciating that "umask=value Set[s] the bitmask of the file > and directory permissions /that are not present/. … The default value > is 0 which means full access to everybody." (My emphasis.) > > In view of your reported struggles to understand above, I would think > carefully about what exectly you are trying to communicate between > windows and linux. > > . Are you actually relying on permissions because User 1,2,3 are > different people whose data needs protecting, or are they different > facets of yourself (personal, work, financial, etc.) > > . Do the files require preservation of windows metadata. (Eg, if you > were sharing "C:\WINDOWS", one wouldn't want to interfere with > metadata that the OS relies upon.) > > Then I would decide on whether your shared filesystem would really > be better served by being simple, like exFAT (DC's choice, I've no > experience) or FAT32. > > > I did some tests, and I think that I I can't find a way to do it this week I will end by recreate this folders. In my tests it worked well :( > > And without understanding what caused the problem, just touch wood and > hope it doesn't happen again? Not the way I'd want to run a system. > For example, what tool would you use to check it and preen it? > (Disclaimer: we have no idea what these "tests" were.) > > Cheers, > David. > > > Le 2021-11-27 19:39, Chuck Zmudzinski <brchuckz@netscape.net> a écrit : > > Read the ntfs-3 man page. > > Take a look at the man page for ntfs-3g, the section on > Access Handling and Security: > > From the ntfs-3g man page: > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Access Handling and Security > By default, files and directories are owned by the effective > user and group of the mounting process, and ev‐ > erybody has full read, write, execution and directory browsing > permissions. You can also assign permissions > to a single user by using the uid and/or the gid options > together with the umask, or fmask and dmask options. > > Doing so, Windows users have full access to the files created by > ntfs-3g. > > But, by setting the permissions option, you can benefit from the > full ownership and permissions features as > defined by POSIX. Moreover, by defining a Windows-to-Linux > user mapping, the ownerships and permissions are > even applied to Windows users and conversely. > > If ntfs-3g is set setuid-root then non-root users will be also > able to mount volumes. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > You use the defaults option when mounting. I do not know how that > affects access and security for ntfs-3g. I would suggest either using > uid and gid options when mounting instead, or using the > usermapping file that maps Windows users to Debian users. > > You need to check which user under Windows owns those folders, which Windows > users have write access to those folders, etc. > > As mentioned in the man page, there is a way to map Windows users to > Debian 11 users using the default .NTFS-3G/UserMapping file or a > custom usermapping file with the usermapping mount option. > > I used this feature a long time ago, and the format for the usermapping > file is documented in the ntfs-3g man page. > > As is said at the beginning of this reply, read the ntfs-3g man page! > > HTH, > > Chuck > > On 11/26/2021 3:29 AM, lists.debian@netc.eu wrote: > > Hello to all, > > I have a dual boot PC with Windows 10 and Debian 11 > > This PC has 2 drives, one SSD that has both operating systems and a > > HDD where I store all other files (documents, music, images, ...) > > The goal is to share this HDD between Windows and Debian. To do it, I > > added the following line to the fstab file: > > > > UUID=ACB23705B236D414 /mnt/windows ntfs-3g defaults,umask=000 > > 0 0 > > > > the folders lount without any problem to /mnt/windows, all with the > > correct permission settings (rwx) : > > > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/ > > total 80 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 14 nov. 20:20 '$RECYCLE.BIN' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 CloudStation > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 11:44 Documents > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 25 juin 08:15 DumpStack.log.tmp > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 22 nov. 20:41 Images > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 11:53 Music > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8192 23 nov. 06:21 'System Volume Information' > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 40960 21 nov. 22:22 Downloads > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 21 nov. 19:44 Videos > > > > My problem is that in some sub folders, I'm not getting the write > > ("w") permission. For example on the "Documents" one: > > > > $ ls -l /mnt/windows/Documents/ > > total 117 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 15:59 User1 > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 26 nov. 2020 Default.rdp > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 432 11 mars 2021 desktop.ini > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 40960 24 nov. 15:59 User2 > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16384 24 nov. 16:00 Public > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4096 24 nov. 15:59 User3 > > dr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 20480 21 nov. 12:05 Scan > > -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18432 4 déc. 2016 Thumbs.db > > drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 16 nov. 23:13 'Unified Remote' > > > > Most of the folders are OK, but I ave User2 and San that doesn't have > > the write ("w") permission... > > Do you have any idea on whats going on? > > Thanks in advance for all the help, > > Berst regards, > > Marc > > > >

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#242537

On Mon 29 Nov 2021 at 23:26:53 (+0100), lists.debian@netc.eu wrote:
> [ … ] I have always been a Windows user, but for a while I've been thinking in changing to Linux. Last month I decided to do the change, but as we are 2 people at home (me and my wife), I've decided to do a dual boot while I can do all settings and familiarize myself with Debian, while she will still be using Windows (she is not a tech woman, she only wants something that works easily). So I want to be able to access and modify documents on the folders on Debian and Windows, as me and my wife have documents in common on these folders. As I stated before, the computer has 2 physical drives, one SSD with the 2 OSs and a HDD with all the data files (documents, pictures, ...) This drive is meant to be shared between all users, and the folders are there only for organisational purposes.

That does sound, then, as if a simpler filesystem would suffice,
and require less management. All the permissions complications
are unnecessary under your circumstances, assuming you trust
each other. Security (safety) is best provided by backups.

Cheers,
David.

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