Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #245879 > unrolled thread

how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian?

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 16:30 +0100
    Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 16:40 +0100
    Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2022-03-04 16:40 +0100
      Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 17:00 +0100
        Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-04 18:00 +0100
          Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 19:10 +0100
            Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2022-03-04 20:20 +0100
              Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 23:10 +0100
            Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2022-03-04 22:20 +0100
              Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-05 01:40 +0100
                Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-03-05 02:10 +0100
                  Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-05 02:30 +0100
                    Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-03-05 03:00 +0100
                  Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-05 09:00 +0100
                  Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2022-03-05 09:00 +0100
                Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-05 02:10 +0100
          Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 19:10 +0100
    Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2022-03-04 16:50 +0100
      Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 17:10 +0100
        Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2022-03-04 17:50 +0100
          Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 18:50 +0100
            Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-03-04 20:40 +0100
              Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-04 21:00 +0100
              Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 23:20 +0100
            Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-03-04 20:40 +0100
              Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 23:20 +0100
          Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-03-04 19:00 +0100
            Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 19:00 +0100
    Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Alexis Grigoriou <alexis@nanoid.net> - 2022-03-04 17:20 +0100
      Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 17:30 +0100
      Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 19:00 +0100
        Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-03-04 19:40 +0100
          Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2022-03-04 22:20 +0100
            Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 23:10 +0100
            Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2022-03-04 23:40 +0100
              Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-05 00:00 +0100
                Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2022-03-05 00:30 +0100
                  Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-05 01:30 +0100
                    Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2022-03-05 20:30 +0100
                      Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-06 01:00 +0100
                        Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-06 07:10 +0100
                          Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2022-03-06 13:00 +0100
                          Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2022-03-06 16:10 +0100
                            Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-07 18:50 +0100
                              Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2022-03-07 19:10 +0100
                                Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-08 20:00 +0100
                                  Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2022-03-08 22:00 +0100
              Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2022-03-05 09:10 +0100
                Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2022-03-05 16:10 +0100
          Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-04 23:00 +0100
    Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-03-05 00:50 +0100
      Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2022-03-05 01:20 +0100
        Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-05 01:40 +0100
        Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-03-05 02:00 +0100
      Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-05 01:50 +0100
        Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-03-05 02:10 +0100
          Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2022-03-05 02:30 +0100
            Re: how many W a PSU for non-gaming Debian? Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-03-05 02:50 +0100

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

#245892

Stefan Monnier wrote:

>> But again, the GPU - if I don't play games, do I still need
>> the W for that, as high?
>
> What happens if your PSU doesn't have a high enough wattage
> is that things will work fine as long as your actual
> consumption is below the PSU's limit but if for some reason
> you push the system beyond the limit, then funny things
> can/will happen, including immediate shutdown, crash, ...

Yeah, understood.

Since "how many W are needed for a gaming card if you don't
play games?" isn't going to answer itself anytime soon I'm
gonna pull it and see if I can do mail, programming and mpv
just fine with the CPU only ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245905

On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 08:32:24PM +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 06:46:50PM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> > Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > 
> > >> But again, the GPU - if I don't play games, do I still need
> > >> the W for that, as high?
> > >
> > > What happens if your PSU doesn't have a high enough wattage
> > > is that things will work fine as long as your actual
> > > consumption is below the PSU's limit but if for some reason
> > > you push the system beyond the limit, then funny things
> > > can/will happen, including immediate shutdown, crash, ...
> > 
> > Yeah, understood.
> > 
> > Since "how many W are needed for a gaming card if you don't
> > play games?" isn't going to answer itself anytime soon I'm
> > gonna pull it and see if I can do mail, programming and mpv
> > just fine with the CPU only ...
> 
> Besides, as soon as you boot your browser, the GPU will be
> sweating like five Dooms.

Unless you're also running GNOME, in which case it started sweating
as soon as the display manager booted up, and then got worse when you
logged in.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245909

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 02:39:12PM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 08:32:24PM +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > Besides, as soon as you boot your browser [...]

> Unless you're also running GNOME, in which case it started sweating
> as soon as the display manager booted up, and then got worse when you
> logged in.

:-)

What about systemd-gpud?

(OK, OK, I'm back hiding under my pebble ;-)

Cheers
-- 
t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245925

Greg Wooledge wrote:

>> Besides, as soon as you boot your browser, the GPU will be
>> sweating like five Dooms.
>
> Unless you're also running GNOME, in which case it started
> sweating as soon as the display manager booted up, and then
> got worse when you logged in.

What do I use? See yanked file ...

BTW, try this zsh and powertop(1) to estimate what software is
the source of required W (mW) ...

power-report () {
    local dur=${1:-$(( 60**2 ))}
    local dir=~/hw
    local report=${dir}/power-${dur}.html
    sudo powertop -q -t $dur --html=$report
}

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 https://dataswamp.org/~incal/SOFTWARE                      moasenwood@zoho.eu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Debian       operating system

Emacs        text editor          https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/
 Emacs-w3m   web browser          https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/w3m/
 ERC         IRC client           https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/erc/
 Gnus        mail/RSS/NNTP client https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/gnus/

Linux VTs    virtual terminal     https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/vt/
 rtorrent    torrent client
 tmux        terminal multiplexer https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.tmux.conf
 zsh         shell                https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.zsh/

X            window system        https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.xinitrc
 picom       compositor
 feh         image viewer         https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/feh/keys
 mpv         media player         https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/mpv/
 openbsd-cwm window manager       https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.cwmrc
 xpdf        PDF viewer           https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.xpdfrc
 xterm       terminal emulator    https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.Xresources

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 underground experts united               https://dataswamp.org/~incal/uxu.txt
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245907

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 06:46:50PM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Stefan Monnier wrote:
> 
> >> But again, the GPU - if I don't play games, do I still need
> >> the W for that, as high?
> >
> > What happens if your PSU doesn't have a high enough wattage
> > is that things will work fine as long as your actual
> > consumption is below the PSU's limit but if for some reason
> > you push the system beyond the limit, then funny things
> > can/will happen, including immediate shutdown, crash, ...
> 
> Yeah, understood.
> 
> Since "how many W are needed for a gaming card if you don't
> play games?" isn't going to answer itself anytime soon I'm
> gonna pull it and see if I can do mail, programming and mpv
> just fine with the CPU only ...

Besides, as soon as you boot your browser, the GPU will be
sweating like five Dooms.

;-)

Cheers
-- 
t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245924

tomas wrote:

>> Since "how many W are needed for a gaming card if you don't
>> play games?" isn't going to answer itself anytime soon I'm
>> gonna pull it and see if I can do mail, programming and mpv
>> just fine with the CPU only ...
>
> Besides, as soon as you boot your browser, the GPU will be
> sweating like five Dooms.

Well, I use Emacs-w3m in a Linux VT :)

But good to know!

However, now that I know that the GPU only adds 19W I won't
remove it to get -19 LOL

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245895

On Friday, March 04, 2022 11:48:41 AM Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > But again, the GPU - if I don't play games, do I still need
> > the W for that, as high?
> 
> What happens if your PSU doesn't have a high enough wattage is that
> things will work fine as long as your actual consumption is below the
> PSU's limit but if for some reason you push the system beyond the limit,
> then funny things can/will happen, including immediate shutdown, crash,

Back in the old days, when I sometimes had something that needed a little more 
umpf on an intermittent basis, I would sometimes add a big capacitor on the 
output(s) of the power supply (for some value of big -- I don't remember 
mfds., but I'd get something rated at least a few volts above the nominal 
voltage and sometimes capacitors that were maybe 3" in diameter and 5 or 6" 
tall (just going by memory).

In some cases I could use something much smaller, maybe 1.5" by 3" or so.

(Those are all technical electrical engineering specs ;-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245898

If I add 25% wiggle room even on top of maximum
data/approximations, it is

  (+ #1=(+ 19 125 (* 3 3) (* 2 6) 80 3 2.8) (* 0.25 #1#)) ; 314 W

Without the GPU it is:

  (+ #1=(+ 125 (* 3 3) (* 2 6) 80 3 2.8) (* 0.25 #1#)) ; 290 W

PS. Indeed, Lisp is the #1= language! :D

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245886

On Fri, 2022-03-04 at 16:24 +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> I've heard that for gaming you would want a 600~800W PSU [1]
> but how do I know how many W I need for my computer use?
> I think the most resource-intense I do would be compiling and
> watching multimedia on mpv. [2]
> 

Cooler Master has a PSU calculator.
https://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/

You have to enter CPU, GPU (make and model), HDD, SDD and so on, and it
calculates how much wattage is required. Add another 25% as stated
above and you're good to go.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245887

Maybe I should just remove the GPU?

Then it is just 232W max, I get a 300W PSU, case closed?

CPU          AMD mid end (4 cores)  125
fans          80 mm (3K RPM)          9   (3*3W =  9W)
             120 mm (2K RPM)         12   (2*6W = 12W)
motherboard  high end                80
RAM          ~DDR3 (1.5V)             3   (actually it is a DDR4)
SSD                                   2.8

(+ 125 (* 3 3) (* 2 6) 80 3 2.8) ; 231.8W

https://www.buildcomputers.net/power-consumption-of-pc-components.html

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245896

Alexis Grigoriou wrote:

>> I've heard that for gaming you would want a 600~800W PSU
>> [1] but how do I know how many W I need for my computer
>> use? I think the most resource-intense I do would be
>> compiling and watching multimedia on mpv. [2]
>
> Cooler Master has a PSU calculator.
> https://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/
>
> You have to enter CPU, GPU (make and model), HDD, SDD and so
> on, and it calculates how much wattage is required.
> Add another 25% as stated above and you're good to go.

Thanks!

I did compute it manually from [1] and the CPU, fans,
motherboard, RAM and SSD are at most 232W.

CPU          AMD mid end (4 cores)  125
fans          80 mm (3K RPM)          9   (3*3W =  9W)
             120 mm (2K RPM)         12   (2*6W = 12W)
motherboard  high end                80
RAM          ~DDR3 (1.5V)             3   (actually it is a DDR4)
SSD                                   2.8

(+ 125 (* 3 3) (* 2 6) 80 3 2.8) ; 231.8W

The only thing left is the GPU, I take it even in that PSU
calculator if you input the msi Nvidia Geforce GT 710 it is
the maximum use (gaming) you get as output.

[1] https://www.buildcomputers.net/power-consumption-of-pc-components.html

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245901

On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 06:47:14PM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Alexis Grigoriou wrote:
> 
> >> I've heard that for gaming you would want a 600~800W PSU
> >> [1] but how do I know how many W I need for my computer
> >> use? I think the most resource-intense I do would be
> >> compiling and watching multimedia on mpv. [2]
> >
> > Cooler Master has a PSU calculator.
> > https://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/
> >
> > You have to enter CPU, GPU (make and model), HDD, SDD and so
> > on, and it calculates how much wattage is required.
> > Add another 25% as stated above and you're good to go.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> I did compute it manually from [1] and the CPU, fans,
> motherboard, RAM and SSD are at most 232W.
> 
> CPU          AMD mid end (4 cores)  125
> fans          80 mm (3K RPM)          9   (3*3W =  9W)
>              120 mm (2K RPM)         12   (2*6W = 12W)
> motherboard  high end                80
> RAM          ~DDR3 (1.5V)             3   (actually it is a DDR4)
> SSD                                   2.8
> 
> (+ 125 (* 3 3) (* 2 6) 80 3 2.8) ; 231.8W
> 
> The only thing left is the GPU, I take it even in that PSU
> calculator if you input the msi Nvidia Geforce GT 710 it is
> the maximum use (gaming) you get as output.
> 
> [1] https://www.buildcomputers.net/power-consumption-of-pc-components.html
> 
> -- 
> underground experts united
> https://dataswamp.org/~incal
>

If your draw is a max of 230W and you use a 300W power supply, you've still got to account for inrush current to capacitors as the machine is switched on.

A larger PSU in wattage terms may have better capacitors, more capacity to
withstand dips and spikes in mains voltage and may have a better power factor
so be more effective overall.

the cost differential between 300 and 600W should be relatively small.

Easier to overspecify: the other thing is that larger PSU wattages may have
quieter / better quality fans. I love almost silent PCs.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245918

On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 06:36:35PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 06:47:14PM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> > Alexis Grigoriou wrote:
> > 
> > >> I've heard that for gaming you would want a 600~800W PSU
> > >> [1] but how do I know how many W I need for my computer
> > >> use? I think the most resource-intense I do would be
> > >> compiling and watching multimedia on mpv. [2]
> > >
> > > Cooler Master has a PSU calculator.
> > > https://www.coolermaster.com/power-supply-calculator/
> > >
> > > You have to enter CPU, GPU (make and model), HDD, SDD and so
> > > on, and it calculates how much wattage is required.
> > > Add another 25% as stated above and you're good to go.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > I did compute it manually from [1] and the CPU, fans,
> > motherboard, RAM and SSD are at most 232W.
> > 
> > CPU          AMD mid end (4 cores)  125
> > fans          80 mm (3K RPM)          9   (3*3W =  9W)
> >              120 mm (2K RPM)         12   (2*6W = 12W)
> > motherboard  high end                80
> > RAM          ~DDR3 (1.5V)             3   (actually it is a DDR4)
> > SSD                                   2.8
> > 
> > (+ 125 (* 3 3) (* 2 6) 80 3 2.8) ; 231.8W
> > 
> > The only thing left is the GPU, I take it even in that PSU
> > calculator if you input the msi Nvidia Geforce GT 710 it is
> > the maximum use (gaming) you get as output.
> > 
> > [1] https://www.buildcomputers.net/power-consumption-of-pc-components.html
> > 
> > -- 
> > underground experts united
> > https://dataswamp.org/~incal
> >
> 
> If your draw is a max of 230W and you use a 300W power supply, you've still got to account for inrush current to capacitors as the machine is switched on.
> 
> A larger PSU in wattage terms may have better capacitors, more capacity to
> withstand dips and spikes in mains voltage and may have a better power factor
> so be more effective overall.
> 
> the cost differential between 300 and 600W should be relatively small.
> 
> Easier to overspecify: the other thing is that larger PSU wattages may have
> quieter / better quality fans. I love almost silent PCs.
> 
> All the very best, as ever,
> 
> Andy Cater 
> 



And to add to that,
most recent PSUs are very good in terms of efficiency. They are switched
and drag much less power when the computer doesn't demand it.
I would also go with a 600 W PSU.


-H

-- 
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245923

Henning Follmann wrote:

> And to add to that, most recent PSUs are very good in terms
> of efficiency. They are switched and drag much less power
> when the computer doesn't demand it. I would also go with
> a 600 W PSU.

Are there 600 W PSUs that are passive?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245926

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Henning Follmann writes:

> On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 06:36:35PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 06:47:14PM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> > > Alexis Grigoriou wrote:
> > >
> > > >> I've heard that for gaming you would want a 600~800W PSU

[...]

> > > motherboard, RAM and SSD are at most 232W.
> > >
> > > CPU          AMD mid end (4 cores)  125
> > > fans          80 mm (3K RPM)          9   (3*3W =  9W)
> > >              120 mm (2K RPM)         12   (2*6W = 12W)
> > > motherboard  high end                80
> > > RAM          ~DDR3 (1.5V)             3   (actually it is a DDR4)
> > > SSD                                   2.8
> > >
> > > (+ 125 (* 3 3) (* 2 6) 80 3 2.8) ; 231.8W
> > >
> > > The only thing left is the GPU, I take it even in that PSU

[...]

> > If your draw is a max of 230W and you use a 300W power supply, you've  
> > still got to account for inrush current to capacitors as the machine is  
> > switched on.
> >
> > A larger PSU in wattage terms may have better capacitors, more capacity to
> > withstand dips and spikes in mains voltage and may have a better power  
> > factor so be more effective overall.
> >
> > the cost differential between 300 and 600W should be relatively small.
> >
> > Easier to overspecify: the other thing is that larger PSU wattages may have
> > quieter / better quality fans. I love almost silent PCs.

[...]

> And to add to that,
> most recent PSUs are very good in terms of efficiency. They are switched
> and drag much less power when the computer doesn't demand it.
> I would also go with a 600 W PSU.

[...]

Please keep the following points in mind when doing PSU wattage sizing for  
modern PCs:

 - Judging a CPU by its thermal design power is no longer feasible due
   to some CPUs permanently overclocking while the actually available
   cooling power permits it. On some Intel CPUs this can mean about twice
   the power than you would have expected. If we were to apply this logic
   directly to the unspecified (?) AMD CPU from the OP's config, it would
   mean adding 250W for the CPU rather than the 125W from its TDP.

 - 80+ certified PSUs are rated in terms of their performance at certain
   load percentages. If you choose a high-power PSU (e.g. 600W) then even
   if it has a high efficiency according to 80+ it will not necessarily be
   more efficient than a less highly rated 300W model.

To summarize: For the use case, one might want to add the CPU's TDP  
"another time", i.e. 231.8W + 125W = 356W. Then choose either the next  
fitting PSU size (400W) or go slightly larger for extra safety e.g. 450W,  
500W or even 550W would all be sensible choices.

HTH and YMMV
Linux-Fan

öö

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245927

Linux-Fan wrote:

> Please keep the following points in mind when doing PSU
> wattage sizing for modern PCs:
>
> - Judging a CPU by its thermal design power is no longer
>   feasible due to some CPUs permanently overclocking while
>   the actually available cooling power permits it. On some
>   Intel CPUs this can mean about twice the power than you
>   would have expected. If we were to apply this logic
>   directly to the unspecified (?) AMD CPU from the OP's
>   config

Oh, the OP has the AMD4 x86_64 CPU that comes with/in the Asus
ROG Strix B450-F Gaming motherboard!

> - 80+ certified PSUs are rated in terms of their performance
>   at certain load percentages. If you choose a high-power
>   PSU (e.g. 600W) then even if it has a high efficiency
>   according to 80+ it will not necessarily be more efficient
>   than a less highly rated 300W model.

Not following?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245929

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Emanuel Berg writes:

> Linux-Fan wrote:
>
> > Please keep the following points in mind when doing PSU
> > wattage sizing for modern PCs:
> >
> > - Judging a CPU by its thermal design power is no longer
> >   feasible due to some CPUs permanently overclocking while
> >   the actually available cooling power permits it. On some
> >   Intel CPUs this can mean about twice the power than you
> >   would have expected. If we were to apply this logic
> >   directly to the unspecified (?) AMD CPU from the OP's
> >   config
>
> Oh, the OP has the AMD4 x86_64 CPU that comes with/in the Asus
> ROG Strix B450-F Gaming motherboard!

By default, a motherboard is just that, a motherboard. Unless you have some  
specific "bundle" package, there is no CPU included with it. According to
https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b450-f-gaming-model/
the board has "AM4 socket: Ready for AMD Ryzen(TM) processors". And  
according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM4 this socket can  
accomodate for a wide variety of different processors.

> > - 80+ certified PSUs are rated in terms of their performance
> >   at certain load percentages. If you choose a high-power
> >   PSU (e.g. 600W) then even if it has a high efficiency
> >   according to 80+ it will not necessarily be more efficient
> >   than a less highly rated 300W model.
>
> Not following?

You've snipped the part by Andy Cater:

| A larger PSU in wattage terms may have better capacitors, more capacity to
| withstand dips and spikes in mains voltage and may have a better power factor
| so be more effective overall.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
| the cost differential between 300 and 600W should be relatively small.
|
| Easier to overspecify: the other thing is that larger PSU wattages may have
| quieter / better quality fans. I love almost silent PCs.

I just wanted to point out that larger PSU can be more efficient, but  
smaller PSU can also be more efficient. Even when energy efficiency labels  
are compared (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus), a better rating  
(e.g. gold over silver or such) may not always indicate better efficiency.

Say, for example, you have two PSUs under consideration:

(a) PSU with 450W and 80+ silver rating
(b) PSU with 600W and 80+ gold rating.

Then at 20% load, 80+ specifies (a) to have efficiency 87% and (b) to have  
efficiency 90%. In absolute numbers:

(a) PSU with 450W will have specified 87% at 90W i.e. draw 90W/0.87 = 103W
(b) PSU with 600W will have specified 90% at 120W i.e. draw 120W/0.9 = 133W

As 20% is the lowest load specified for the rating (silver, gold etc.) we  
cannot tell how the respective PSUs operate if less than 20% load is  
requested. From the rating we only know that (a) will take at most 103W in  
idle loads and (b) at most 133W, hence the power consumption of (b) could  
potentially be higher in very-low-load idle scenarios which are not uncommon  
to be the dominating factor for typical PC worksloads.

HTH
Linux-Fan

öö

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245932

Linux-Fan wrote:

>> Oh, the OP has the AMD4 x86_64 CPU that comes with/in the
>> Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming motherboard!
>
> By default, a motherboard is just that, a motherboard.
> Unless you have some specific "bundle" package, there is no
> CPU included with it. According to
> https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b450-f-gaming-model/
> the board has "AM4 socket: Ready for AMD Ryzen(TM)
> processors". And according to
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM4 this socket can
> accomodate for a wide variety of different processors.

$ lscpu | grep "name"
Model name: AMD Ryzen 3 3200G with Radeon Vega Graphics

> (a) PSU with 450W will have specified 87% at 90W i.e.
>     draw 90W/0.87 = 103W
>
> (b) PSU with 600W will have specified 90% at 120W i.e.
>     draw 120W/0.9 = 133W

Okay, so with everything and +25% wiggle room, i.e.

  (ceiling (* 1.25 (+ 19 125 (* 3 3) (* 2 6) 80 3 2.8))) ; 314 W

it is 314 W, and then the worst efficiency is 87%, the digit
lands at

  (ceiling (/ 314 0.87 1.0)) ; 361

361 W.

?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245962

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Emanuel Berg writes:

> Linux-Fan wrote:
>
> >> Oh, the OP has the AMD4 x86_64 CPU that comes with/in the
> >> Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming motherboard!
> >
> > By default, a motherboard is just that, a motherboard.
> > Unless you have some specific "bundle" package, there is no
> > CPU included with it. According to
> > https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b450-f-gaming-model/
> > the board has "AM4 socket: Ready for AMD Ryzen(TM)
> > processors". And according to
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM4 this socket can
> > accomodate for a wide variety of different processors.
>
> $ lscpu | grep "name"
> Model name: AMD Ryzen 3 3200G with Radeon Vega Graphics

Now this is _not_ a 125W CPU but a 65W TDP one [1]. When you calculate that  
CPU with 125W you are already safe. No need to multiply that *2 what I would  
have suggested were it a 125W TDP CPU. In fact, by calculating with 125W you  
almost took twice the TDP already which would have been 2*65W = 130W.

[1] https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-3-3200g

> > (a) PSU with 450W will have specified 87% at 90W i.e.
> >     draw 90W/0.87 = 103W
> >
> > (b) PSU with 600W will have specified 90% at 120W i.e.
> >     draw 120W/0.9 = 133W
>
> Okay, so with everything and +25% wiggle room, i.e.
>
>   (ceiling (* 1.25 (+ 19 125 (* 3 3) (* 2 6) 80 3 2.8))) ; 314 W

Use that figure, see above :)

> it is 314 W, and then the worst efficiency is 87%, the digit
> lands at
>
>   (ceiling (/ 314 0.87 1.0)) ; 361
>
> 361 W.
>
> ?

You do not need to take efficiency into account this way. Reason is: The  
efficiency is the factor between the wall power draw and the PSU's output  
power. To size a PSU for a new computer you _only_ take into account the  
output power and this is also the figure that the manufacturer advertises  
(i.e. 300W PSU means 300W output power, not input power draw).

The efficiency only comes into play when you want to consider the wall power  
draw e.g. to find out how much it will cost to run the systmem 24/7 in terms  
of electricity. If you take an "overly large" PSU, efficiency will possibly  
degrade compared to a one that is "just right" in size.

I hope that clarifies it a little.

HTH
Linux-Fan

öö

[...]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#245971

Linux-Fan wrote:

> Now this is _not_ a 125W CPU but a 65W TDP one [1]. When you
> calculate that CPU with 125W you are already safe. No need
> to multiply that *2 what I would have suggested were it
> a 125W TDP CPU. In fact, by calculating with 125W you almost
> took twice the TDP already which would have been 2*65W
> = 130W

OK, well, got it from:
  https://www.buildcomputers.net/power-consumption-of-pc-components.html

> You do not need to take efficiency into account this
> way [...]

OK, cool, now the computation is with +30% wiggle room:

  (ceiling (* 1.30 (+ 19 65 (* 3 3) (* 2 6) 80 3 2.8))) ; 249 W

?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web