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Groups > linux.debian.user > #244003 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2022-01-15 11:30 +0100 |
| Last post | 2022-01-25 07:40 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 79 — 22 participants |
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Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-15 11:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-15 13:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Anders Andersson <pipatron@gmail.com> - 2022-01-16 17:20 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-16 22:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-17 01:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-17 23:20 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-17 23:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-01-18 00:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-01-18 00:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-18 00:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-22 14:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-01-22 14:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2022-01-22 15:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-22 20:40 +0100
[SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-23 00:30 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-23 19:50 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-23 20:20 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:20 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-23 21:40 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com> - 2022-01-23 21:50 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 23:00 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 00:10 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-24 00:40 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 01:00 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-24 01:30 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 02:20 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 04:20 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 22:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 09:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 12:30 +0100
"Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 12:40 +0100
Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:00 +0100
Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 11:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 11:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 12:20 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-01-23 16:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 17:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 11:20 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 14:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 12:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 20:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 20:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-25 00:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 01:40 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 01:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 02:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 04:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 21:10 +0100
Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2022-01-24 00:30 +0100
Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 11:00 +0100
Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-24 11:10 +0100
Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 12:50 +0100
[CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-24 18:00 +0100
Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 18:40 +0100
Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@pimeys.fr> - 2022-01-24 22:00 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2022-01-25 01:30 +0100
Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-25 07:40 +0100
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| From | deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 11:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIIrV-7f3-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244398 |
tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > This is not helpful. If you value logic as much as you talk about (cf. > your other post), you wouldn't need this narrative of Some Dark > Conspiracy Taking Over The World (TM). > No conspiracy - it is a fact. > Stick to the things as they are. Accept that there are other people, who > think differently and refrain from characterising everyone you disagree > with as ****. > Same applies in the opposite direction > The people who disagree with you are not a cabal. They just... disagree > with you. Convince them otherwise, using logic. > Same applies in the opposite direction > This is the price we all have to pay to take part in a social endeavour, > as a free software distribution is. Interestingly there was no such price 15y ago. How comes? -- FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 11:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIIBz-7ig-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244403 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On 2022-01-23 05:31, deloptes wrote: > tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > >> This is not helpful. If you value logic as much as you talk about (cf. >> your other post), you wouldn't need this narrative of Some Dark >> Conspiracy Taking Over The World (TM). >> > > No conspiracy - it is a fact. > >> Stick to the things as they are. Accept that there are other people, who >> think differently and refrain from characterising everyone you disagree >> with as ****. >> > > Same applies in the opposite direction > >> The people who disagree with you are not a cabal. They just... disagree >> with you. Convince them otherwise, using logic. >> > > Same applies in the opposite direction > >> This is the price we all have to pay to take part in a social endeavour, >> as a free software distribution is. > > Interestingly there was no such price 15y ago. How comes? > What did this email add to any useful debate ?... Did we learn something new ? No Did we get some useful suggestion ? No I feel like someone is very frustrated and can't seem to self moderate himself. This is probably the part of opensource community that is the most time consuming and more destructive for all projects, what make serious people look at us like if we are just a bunch of kids. What's the goal of sending a email when you repeat twice, same to you. Talk about facts but never give any (fact = substance, not opinions). Yes, time have changed since the last 15 years and it has also changed since the time we used 2400 baud modem, used terminal connected to S/390 and the reign of the PDP-11. Have we adapted our software, I think so. Why can't we adapt as human ? Some do, other seem to be into doing retro-computing with their own brain. -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 12:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIJ4B-7HD-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244404 |
Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > I feel like someone is very frustrated and can't seem to self moderate > himself. > > This is probably the part of opensource community that is the most time > consuming and more destructive for all projects, what make serious > people look at us like if we are just a bunch of kids. > > What's the goal of sending a email when you repeat twice, same to you. > Talk about facts but never give any (fact = substance, not opinions). > > Yes, time have changed since the last 15 years and it has also changed > since the time we used 2400 baud modem, used terminal connected to S/390 > and the reign of the PDP-11. Have we adapted our software, I think so. > Why can't we adapt as human ? Some do, other seem to be into doing > retro-computing with their own brain. You are not worth spending even this one minute to discuss anything - thats the point! -- FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
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| From | Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 16:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIN8e-1E2-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244398 |
On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:03:27 +0100 <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote: > > Looking into the details to me it seems exactly as expected. The > > liberal **** hijacked Debian [...] > > This is not helpful. If you value logic as much as you talk about (cf. > your other post), you wouldn't need this narrative of Some Dark > Conspiracy Taking Over The World (TM). This isn't very helpful either. What we have here is a difference in world view. At least one of you is (and possibly both are) wrong. Neither of you will change the other's mind. Now, can we kindly stop wasting time and hard drive storage, and get back to discussing Debian software? Thank you. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 17:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DINBf-23K-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244422 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:31:29AM -0700, Charles Curley wrote: > On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:03:27 +0100 > <tomas@tuxteam.de> wrote: [...] > > This is not helpful [...] > This isn't very helpful either. What we have here is a difference in > world view. At least one of you is (and possibly both are) wrong. You are most probably right on that :) > Neither of you will change the other's mind. ...and almost surely right on that. > Now, can we kindly stop wasting time and hard drive storage, and get > back to discussing Debian software? Agreed. Cheers -- t
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| From | deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 11:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIHYS-75t-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244352 |
Marco Möller wrote: > Asking for transparency to sound like trolling wasn't my intention. I am > sorry if I wasn't able to find the correct wording for keeping these to > things distinguishable. > > Being a grateful user of Debian, and being in my circle of influence a > strong advocate of the Debian project, and also of the KDE Plasma > desktop environment as available in Debian, I do not feel it to be, lets > say, insolent, if interested in community affairs. Actually, I feel it > desirable to stay well informed for reinforcing advocacy, and asking for > transparency is to me a coherent step. > > I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to > not provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat given > off obstructively. > As Thomas pointed out, there are hundreds of posts from years old > discussions which appear to be the prelude to the current situation. > Some of these public discussions have been quite controversial, partly > also questioning if community processes are always taking place > sufficiently transparent. Currently I find only a public statement from > one party. This could harm the Debian project. Some concise statement > from somebody in the Debian project with insights into the issue could > prevent Debian from bad repute by declassifying which are the positions > of the present disagreement. Looking into the details to me it seems exactly as expected. The liberal **** hijacked Debian as they did and do routinely with many other organizations. So now the Communist Party of Debian can rule with CoC. Great job - makes me feel proud of Debian (ironically). And I can imagine what will happen in the future. Debian will become like many other companies a victim of its CoC where it is not important to provide good software but to comply with what the communist party elite says. This is a pandemic for itself. I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the future. Not because I care that much about the **** CoC, but because the ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the expected quality. -- FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
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| From | Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 11:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DII8x-78M-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244399 |
deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> wrote on 23/01/2022 at 10:52:48+0100: > Marco Möller wrote: > >> Asking for transparency to sound like trolling wasn't my intention. I am >> sorry if I wasn't able to find the correct wording for keeping these to >> things distinguishable. >> >> Being a grateful user of Debian, and being in my circle of influence a >> strong advocate of the Debian project, and also of the KDE Plasma >> desktop environment as available in Debian, I do not feel it to be, lets >> say, insolent, if interested in community affairs. Actually, I feel it >> desirable to stay well informed for reinforcing advocacy, and asking for >> transparency is to me a coherent step. >> >> I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to >> not provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat given >> off obstructively. >> As Thomas pointed out, there are hundreds of posts from years old >> discussions which appear to be the prelude to the current situation. >> Some of these public discussions have been quite controversial, partly >> also questioning if community processes are always taking place >> sufficiently transparent. Currently I find only a public statement from >> one party. This could harm the Debian project. Some concise statement >> from somebody in the Debian project with insights into the issue could >> prevent Debian from bad repute by declassifying which are the positions >> of the present disagreement. > > Looking into the details to me it seems exactly as expected. The liberal > **** hijacked Debian as they did and do routinely with many other > organizations. So now the Communist Party of Debian can rule with CoC. > Great job - makes me feel proud of Debian (ironically). > And I can imagine what will happen in the future. Debian will become like > many other companies a victim of its CoC where it is not important to > provide good software but to comply with what the communist party elite > says. This is a pandemic for itself. > I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the > future. Not because I care that much about the **** CoC, but because the > ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the > expected quality. Thanks for sharing this masterpiece of rhetoric, intellect and understanding about how things work in Debian. This was enlightening. -- PEB
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| From | deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 11:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIIrU-7f3-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244400 |
Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > Thanks for sharing this masterpiece of rhetoric, intellect and > understanding about how things work in Debian. > > This was enlightening. you are welcome (I am not stupid, just answering in the same manner) I do not care what you do in Debian. I use and support the community as long as it serves my needs. Also I am ready to ignore all replies as I have found out it is not possible to have constructive debate with .... well lets keep it for myself. I simply know how this works - once you have the communists inside, it all falls apart. Knowing Debian, it will take perhaps another 10y. So instead of attacking me, just think over. -- FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
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| From | Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIJHj-7Vv-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244402 |
deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> wrote on 23/01/2022 at 11:38:21+0100: > Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > >> Thanks for sharing this masterpiece of rhetoric, intellect and >> understanding about how things work in Debian. >> >> This was enlightening. > > you are welcome (I am not stupid, just answering in the same manner) > > I do not care what you do in Debian. I use and support the community as long > as it serves my needs. You do not care but still take plenty time to post a very long paragraph full of nonsense which brings nothing relevant to the discussion, and shows that you are also able to lack that ability you claim having to have a constructive debate instead of asserting, without a shred of argument, mocking, diminishing what you *guess* is happening. This is rich. > Also I am ready to ignore all replies as I have found out it is not possible > to have constructive debate with .... well lets keep it for myself. You should have probably started with not posting at all, as your mails don't make you looking like trying to have any sort of constructive debate. > I simply know how this works - once you have the communists inside, it all > falls apart. Knowing Debian, it will take perhaps another 10y. I guess this is another attempt at having a constructive debate? > So instead of attacking me, just think over. I did, and I stand my point: there's nothing to save in your last attempts to make a statement. -- PEB
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| From | deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIKk1-8oI-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244410 |
Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > You do not care but still take plenty time to post a very long paragraph > full of nonsense which brings nothing relevant to the discussion, and > shows that you are also able to lack that ability you claim having to > have a constructive debate instead of asserting, without a shred of > argument, mocking, diminishing what you *guess* is happening. I do not know you and I do not insult you, so why you are doing this? Oh, let me tell you I do not care at all. I learned to distance my self from offends such as yours. To be honest I am fed up of guys like you. And let me tell you something as well - I did not want to have any kind of argumentative discussion here. I just regret the ability to have one in general. And you are best proof of it. And this is why people like Norbert Preining are leaving. If you want to have one debate, you can ask for it, but hey - you are one of those smart, morally superior *** *****, who know they are better. So you exactly prove what I was saying. I refuse to come down to that level of debate. If you want to have one, do it properly - not here and not now. I enjoy my weekend, I hope you do too. I even do not expect you will understand what I am saying - well obviously you do not. I hope you can understand and I also forgive you, if you can not because you are younger (although with 30 you could perform better). Once you wake up in a full totalitarian system you yourself created, you will probably and hopefully understand what I was saying, but first it will be too late and second at the moment any discussion with you is pointless. It is disappointing that people like you demand respect, but are not ready to give such. I am sorry for you. -- FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
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| From | Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIKtJ-8sj-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244413 |
Hi delptes, On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 01:30:03PM +0100, deloptes wrote: > I do not know you and I do not insult you > I am fed up of guys like you. > you are one of those smart, morally superior *** *****, who know they are better. > I even do not expect you will understand what I am saying > a full totalitarian system you yourself created > at the moment any discussion with you is pointless. > It is disappointing that people like you demand respect Please stop. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIKtJ-8sj-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244413 |
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On 2022-01-23 07:30, deloptes wrote: > Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > >> You do not care but still take plenty time to post a very long paragraph >> full of nonsense which brings nothing relevant to the discussion, and >> shows that you are also able to lack that ability you claim having to >> have a constructive debate instead of asserting, without a shred of >> argument, mocking, diminishing what you *guess* is happening. > > I do not know you and I do not insult you, so why you are doing this? > Oh, let me tell you I do not care at all. I learned to distance my self from > offends such as yours. To be honest I am fed up of guys like you. > And let me tell you something as well - I did not want to have any kind of > argumentative discussion here. I just regret the ability to have one in > general. And you are best proof of it. And this is why people like Norbert > Preining are leaving. > > If you want to have one debate, you can ask for it, but hey - you are one of > those smart, morally superior *** *****, who know they are better. So you > exactly prove what I was saying. > I refuse to come down to that level of debate. If you want to have one, do > it properly - not here and not now. I enjoy my weekend, I hope you do too. > > I even do not expect you will understand what I am saying - well obviously > you do not. I hope you can understand and I also forgive you, if you can > not because you are younger (although with 30 you could perform better). Just a note, he's not 30 So stop making a fool of yourself For someone who don't wanna talk you seem like a really loud mouth around here. > > Once you wake up in a full totalitarian system you yourself created, you > will probably and hopefully understand what I was saying, but first it will > be too late and second at the moment any discussion with you is pointless. > > It is disappointing that people like you demand respect, but are not ready > to give such. I am sorry for you. > > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DILzs-DF-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244415 |
Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Just a note, he's not 30 https://people.debian.org/~peb/resume.html but I stop as it is unbearable ... and I am not sure who is playing the fool. You are just digging the grave for this awesome project and I hope I am wrong. But it could be just evolution happening infront of our eyes (well for those who still can clearly see where it is going) BR -- FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
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| From | Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 14:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DILpM-Am-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244413 |
I was not considering keeping up this discussion but it's really too tempting, so here is a last one! deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> wrote on 23/01/2022 at 13:30:03+0100: > I do not know you But, > I am fed up of guys like you. deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> wrote on 23/01/2022 at 13:30:03+0100: > I do not know you and I do not insult you Buuuuuuuut, > you are one of those smart, morally superior *** ***** deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> wrote on 23/01/2022 at 13:30:03+0100: > I do not know you and I do not insult you BUUUUUUT, > I even do not expect you will understand what I am saying - well obviously > you do not. Honestly, if I were to summarize what I'm feeling right now, it'd be something like https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PowerfulLegitimateBichonfrise-max-1mb.gif I'm having a lot of fun, but it's the fourth time in a few hours that you're making a fool of yourself, and if I were to keep up it would become quite cringe. I'll therefore stop there (don't refrain to reply one last time, my basket is still half full). But to be clear: > It is disappointing that people like you demand respect, but are not ready > to give such. I am sorry for you. I never demanded respect from you, and this one is rich, too. Enjoy your weekend! :) -- PEB FTAOD for others: Norbert did not leave, he got his Debian Member status revoked by DAM.
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 12:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIIUW-7DW-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244399 |
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On 2022-01-23 04:52, deloptes wrote: > Marco Möller wrote: > >> I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to >> not provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat given >> off obstructively. >> As Thomas pointed out, there are hundreds of posts from years old >> discussions which appear to be the prelude to the current situation. >> Some of these public discussions have been quite controversial, partly >> also questioning if community processes are always taking place >> sufficiently transparent. Currently I find only a public statement from >> one party. This could harm the Debian project. Some concise statement >> from somebody in the Debian project with insights into the issue could >> prevent Debian from bad repute by declassifying which are the positions >> of the present disagreement. > > I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the > future. Not because I care that much about the **** CoC, but because the > ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the > expected quality. This is a mailing list, not a airport. No need to announce any departure. If you feel there's something better then go for your own faith. The basis of community based software is pretty simple : If you ain't happy you have two possibility 1. Use something else 2. Make a fork and do the modification you feel like needed That's all the spirit behind GPL / LGPL. No need to bring in politics and other ideas that only live inside your mind. Maybe you are still living under the ruling of McCarthyism ? Thanks for the show, you seem very good at writing scripts so why don't you now try to write code and fill in what's needed to make the software meet your need. I won't be the only one happy to see the new distribution that you will be the master head behind. Hope you'll be reactive with bug fixes and all the problems you expect other to do for you. -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DILzs-DF-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244405 |
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 05:59:40AM -0500, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > > On 2022-01-23 04:52, deloptes wrote: > > Marco Möller wrote: > > [Marco Moeller] > >> I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to > >> not provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat given > >> off obstructively. > > I provided this late lat night UTC - it was posted on behalf of DAM and is in this list - subject line starts [SUMMARY STATEMENT] [deloptes] > > I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the > > future. Not because I care that much about the **** CoC, but because the > > ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the > > expected quality. > Debian has always been ideologically motivated for the 26+ years I've used it. Most of the ideology has been around creating a good Linux distribution based around Free software. Our ideology on licence terms is well known. The Debian Free Software Guidelines and Social Contract have been out there as our gold standard. if you're a Debian maintainer or developer, you're expected to sign up to these as part of the conditions of holding that status. Likewise the Code of Conduct: most projects now have a Code of Conduct attached to them. This one was voted on and accepted by the Debian developer community. It's fairly straightforward: I reference it in the FAQ posted here monthly. Much of it comes down to treating people with respect and being constructive. This series of posts from you is on the edge of acceptable. Please consider that this list is publicly archived all over the place: please also consider that this list, Debian IRC channels and other Debian media are governed by the Code of Conduct. [Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside] > This is a mailing list, not a airport. No need to announce any departure. > If you feel there's something better then go for your own faith. > > The basis of community based software is pretty simple : > If you ain't happy you have two possibility > 1. Use something else > 2. Make a fork and do the modification you feel like needed > > That's all the spirit behind GPL / LGPL. > > No need to bring in politics and other ideas that only live inside your > mind. > > Maybe you are still living under the ruling of McCarthyism ? > > Thanks for the show, you seem very good at writing scripts so why don't > you now try to write code and fill in what's needed to make the software > meet your need. > > I won't be the only one happy to see the new distribution that you will > be the master head behind. Hope you'll be reactive with bug fixes and > all the problems you expect other to do for you. > The basis of community based software is contributing consstructively to the community, as you've outlined. Debian is a volunteer organisation - we can't force people to contribute. When they do, we ask them to be constructive - to disagree with positive intent and not to dig at each other - not to push people's buttons just because you can. That often fails - but we try to make a helpful, constructive atmosphere. Everyone can get frustrated, annoyed that someone just isn't seeing their point - angry - at some time or other but that isn't helpful in the long term. Much of Debian is text based communications: all sorts of people in all sorts of situations and it's easy to propagate misunderstandings. On the (increasingly) rare occasions when we get together for something like a Debconf - we discover we're also a social organisation of real people. You get to see people and hear them - or think "Wow, XYZ is a giant" or "Hey ABC has multi-coloured hair - wow, I didn't know that from their avatar" We get people sharing with the lists that they're sick in some way, we mourn with the families of our colleagues who die - we're human. We get to be happy when people show photos of their brand new baby, or their hobby - they become three-dimensional. Text messages don't show that - but attitudes do. With enough time, you flesh out real people behind the interactions. > -- > Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside > -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development With every good wish, as ever, Andrew Cater [For and on behalf of the Community Team]
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DIRlv-4i7-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244420 |
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On 2022-01-23 08:53, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > > [Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside] > >> This is a mailing list, not a airport. No need to announce any departure. >> If you feel there's something better then go for your own faith. >> >> The basis of community based software is pretty simple : >> If you ain't happy you have two possibility >> 1. Use something else >> 2. Make a fork and do the modification you feel like needed >> >> That's all the spirit behind GPL / LGPL. >> >> No need to bring in politics and other ideas that only live inside your >> mind. >> >> Maybe you are still living under the ruling of McCarthyism ? >> >> Thanks for the show, you seem very good at writing scripts so why don't >> you now try to write code and fill in what's needed to make the software >> meet your need. >> >> I won't be the only one happy to see the new distribution that you will >> be the master head behind. Hope you'll be reactive with bug fixes and >> all the problems you expect other to do for you. >> > > The basis of community based software is contributing consstructively to > the community, as you've outlined. Debian is a volunteer organisation - > we can't force people to contribute. When they do, we ask them to be > constructive - to disagree with positive intent and not to dig at each > other - not to push people's buttons just because you can. > > That often fails - but we try to make a helpful, constructive atmosphere. > Everyone can get frustrated, annoyed that someone just isn't seeing their > point - angry - at some time or other but that isn't helpful in the long term. > > Much of Debian is text based communications: all sorts of people in all sorts > of situations and it's easy to propagate misunderstandings. On the > (increasingly) rare occasions when we get together for something like a > Debconf - we discover we're also a social organisation of real people. > You get to see people and hear them - or think "Wow, XYZ is a giant" or > "Hey ABC has multi-coloured hair - wow, I didn't know that from their > avatar" > > We get people sharing with the lists that they're sick in some way, we > mourn with the families of our colleagues who die - we're human. We > get to be happy when people show photos of their brand new baby, or their > hobby - they become three-dimensional. Text messages don't show that - > but attitudes do. With enough time, you flesh out real people behind > the interactions. > >> -- >> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside >> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development > You resume it quite right, for community software to go forward there's a need to have a higher demand on a Code of Conduct and other "social standards" because the software is socially built if I can say it this way. This oppose to commercial software or commercial companies. If you don't like much your job, you'll still contribute because your pay is needed for you to pay groceries and your home. When you give your energy to a community based project, you get two things back. The first is some work done and the second is pride in what you do. That's it. Yes in some case maybe your boss benefits from what you contribute to a project but that's in no way linked to the project itself. This applies if the business your work for kind of loan you as employee to put hours on the project. But even there, there's a even better need for cooperation and this can only be enforced one way. With a code of conduct. No one want to invest time in any project to get back a basket of comment of the type : There's the red army around All the problems in the world are caused by democrats The world is doomed... etc. If we'd want such type of comment then we'd watch TV and choose of the appropriate channel to meet our expectation. The goal if to have a safe space for everyone to be able to contribute. Not everyone has the infinite patience you have. There was a time we'd keep toxic people because they we're good contributor or had good skills. Now we discovered that this cause more problem on the long term and even less productivity because other don't want to join. This is not part of what's called the past on the line of time. Thanks for the good work. > With every good wish, as ever, > > Andrew Cater > > [For and on behalf of the Community Team] > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 20:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DJdm1-N4-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244399 |
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On Du, 23 ian 22, 10:52:48, deloptes wrote: > > I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the > future. Not because I care that much about the **** CoC, but because the > ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the > expected quality. Typically such (mostly off-topic) threads on d-u happen right before a major Debian release, when everybody is waiting for the new stable and there aren't many technical questions. For this thread to happen so shortly *after* a major release, to me this indicates there aren't many problems with bullseye \o/. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-24 20:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DJdvH-Qk-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244534 |
On 1/24/22 11:35, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 23 ian 22, 10:52:48, deloptes wrote: >> I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the >> future. Not because I care that much about the **** CoC, but because the >> ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the >> expected quality. Honestly, why do you even post this? Noone is preventing anyone from trying or using other distros. Noone should treat Debian or Linux or any other distro as anything more than a tool.
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2022-01-25 00:30 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <DJgWC-2Zj-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #244534 |
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On 2022-01-24 14:35, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 23 ian 22, 10:52:48, deloptes wrote: >> >> I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the >> future. Not because I care that much about the **** CoC, but because the >> ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the >> expected quality. > > Typically such (mostly off-topic) threads on d-u happen right before a > major Debian release, when everybody is waiting for the new stable and > there aren't many technical questions. > > For this thread to happen so shortly *after* a major release, to me this > indicates there aren't many problems with bullseye \o/. > You have a great news for all of us ! Debian's the best and most stable distribution I have know of. I didn't have problem with Bullseye... But didn't have problem with Buster either... > > Kind regards, > Andrei -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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