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Dependency check: qml-module-org-kde-newstuff

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  Dependency check: qml-module-org-kde-newstuff Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2021-09-29 14:40 +0200
    Re: Dependency check: qml-module-org-kde-newstuff Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2021-09-29 21:20 +0200
      Re: Dependency check: qml-module-org-kde-newstuff Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2021-09-30 09:10 +0200
        Re: Dependency check: qml-module-org-kde-newstuff Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 09:30 +0200
          Re: Dependency check: qml-module-org-kde-newstuff Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2021-10-03 11:40 +0200
            Re: Dependency check: qml-module-org-kde-newstuff Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 14:30 +0200

#240551 — Dependency check: qml-module-org-kde-newstuff

Hi folks,

I am using debian/stable i386.

After the updgrade to bullseye, I got into the issue, that I could not change 
several settings for icons or mouse pointer in plasma.

Examination showed, that the module "org.kde.newstuff" could not be found. And 
indeed, further investigation showed, that the responsible package "qml-
module-org-kde-newstuff" was not installed. Installation fixed that issue, of 
course.

However, IMO this package should be automatically installed with plasma. 

It would be nice, if someone could check and maybe verify, if the dependency 
for this package is correctly set, or if this problem only appears at my 
computer.

Please note, this issue appeared only on my 32-Bit system!

As I do not know, which package is responsible for additionally install the 
package "qml-module-org-kde-newstuff" I can not check myself. I am sure, the 
maintainers know more. (I believe, it is plasma-desktop or plasma-data-
desktop)

It is just a little issue, which can easily be fixed, so no need to file an 
extra bugreport, I suppose.

Thanks for reading this!

Best regards

Hans

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#240582

On 29.09.21 14:35, Hans wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I am using debian/stable i386.
> 
> After the updgrade to bullseye, I got into the issue, that I could not change
> several settings for icons or mouse pointer in plasma.
> 
> Examination showed, that the module "org.kde.newstuff" could not be found. And
> indeed, further investigation showed, that the responsible package "qml-
> module-org-kde-newstuff" was not installed. Installation fixed that issue, of
> course.
> 
> However, IMO this package should be automatically installed with plasma.
> 
> It would be nice, if someone could check and maybe verify, if the dependency
> for this package is correctly set, or if this problem only appears at my
> computer.
> 
> Please note, this issue appeared only on my 32-Bit system!
> 
> As I do not know, which package is responsible for additionally install the
> package "qml-module-org-kde-newstuff" I can not check myself. I am sure, the
> maintainers know more. (I believe, it is plasma-desktop or plasma-data-
> desktop)
> 
> It is just a little issue, which can easily be fixed, so no need to file an
> extra bugreport, I suppose.
> 
> Thanks for reading this!
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Hans
> 
> 

If I investigate my package installations with the following commands:
	apt list qml-module-org-kde-newstuff
	aptitude why qml-module-org-kde-newstuff
	apt rdepends qml-module-org-kde-newstuff

then I am shown:
that it was drawn in as a dependency:
qml-module-org-kde-newstuff/stable,now 5.78.0-4 amd64 [installed,automatic]

and that several packages could depend on it or could recommend it:

i   plasma-desktop      Depends    plasma-desktop-data (= 4:5.20.5-4)
i A plasma-desktop-data Recommends qml-module-org-kde-newstuff

Reverse Depends:
	Depends: knewstuff-dialog (= 5.86.0-2)
	Depends: systemsettings
	Depends: plasma-systemmonitor (>= 5.78.0~)
	Recommends: plasma-desktop-data
	Depends: peruse
	Recommends: libkf5newstuffcore5 (= 5.86.0-2)
	Depends: knewstuff-dialog (= 5.78.0-4)
	Breaks: libkf5coreaddons5 (<< 5.42)
	Breaks: libkf5attica5 (<< 5.42)
	Depends: artikulate
	Depends: plasma-systemmonitor (>= 5.66.0~)
	Recommends: plasma-desktop-data
	Depends: peruse
	Recommends: libkf5newstuffcore5 (= 5.78.0-4)
	Breaks: libkf5attica5 (<< 5.42)
	Breaks: libkf5coreaddons5 (<< 5.42)
	Depends: artikulate

So, these are the candidates which could have let install it 
automatically. However, I almost never let install recommends and the 
list also shows packages which I actually have not installed at all. It 
pretty much looks like plasma-desktop-data drew it in, but I am quite 
sure that I installed plasma-desktop without recommends (apt install 
--no-install-recommends) and therefore would expect that also its 
dependency plasma-desktop-data should have been installed without 
recommends. But about this last point I am not sure how apt handles it.
Unfortunately I also do not find in the apt command's "term" or 
"history" logs, or the dpkg logs which package finally did draw it in, I 
can only find the date when it was installed together with many (too 
many!) other packages at a certain date, probably the day when I 
upgraded from buster to bullseye.
Therefore I cannot help you to localize the package which indeed was 
responsible to draw it in.

If someone could teach me how to narrow down from the candidates to the 
finally responsible package, or some other approach how to derive the 
searched for information, then I could continue to investigate my system 
for you. Otherwise I am stuck and wouldn't know how to help you more.

Best wishes,
Marco

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#240626

Hi Marco,

great job you did there! 

So, when I am looking at your results, it looks for me, that the package 
qml-module-org-kde-newstuff is only recommended. 

But if so, IMO this then is a bug. Just because some things in systemsettings 
of plasma do not work without this package installed, it should be set to 
"depends", to make sure it is beeing installed.

I hope, the package maintainers are reading this, too, so it may be fixed and 
will not be necessary to file a bug.

Best regards

Hans

 > 
> If I investigate my package installations with the following commands:
> 	apt list qml-module-org-kde-newstuff
> 	aptitude why qml-module-org-kde-newstuff
> 	apt rdepends qml-module-org-kde-newstuff
> 
> then I am shown:
> that it was drawn in as a dependency:
> qml-module-org-kde-newstuff/stable,now 5.78.0-4 amd64 [installed,automatic]
> 
> and that several packages could depend on it or could recommend it:
> 
> i   plasma-desktop      Depends    plasma-desktop-data (= 4:5.20.5-4)
> i A plasma-desktop-data Recommends qml-module-org-kde-newstuff
> 
> Reverse Depends:
> 	Depends: knewstuff-dialog (= 5.86.0-2)
> 	Depends: systemsettings
> 	Depends: plasma-systemmonitor (>= 5.78.0~)
> 	Recommends: plasma-desktop-data
> 	Depends: peruse
> 	Recommends: libkf5newstuffcore5 (= 5.86.0-2)
> 	Depends: knewstuff-dialog (= 5.78.0-4)
> 	Breaks: libkf5coreaddons5 (<< 5.42)
> 	Breaks: libkf5attica5 (<< 5.42)
> 	Depends: artikulate
> 	Depends: plasma-systemmonitor (>= 5.66.0~)
> 	Recommends: plasma-desktop-data
> 	Depends: peruse
> 	Recommends: libkf5newstuffcore5 (= 5.78.0-4)
> 	Breaks: libkf5attica5 (<< 5.42)
> 	Breaks: libkf5coreaddons5 (<< 5.42)
> 	Depends: artikulate
> 
> So, these are the candidates which could have let install it
> automatically. However, I almost never let install recommends and the
> list also shows packages which I actually have not installed at all. It
> pretty much looks like plasma-desktop-data drew it in, but I am quite
> sure that I installed plasma-desktop without recommends (apt install
> --no-install-recommends) and therefore would expect that also its
> dependency plasma-desktop-data should have been installed without
> recommends. But about this last point I am not sure how apt handles it.
> Unfortunately I also do not find in the apt command's "term" or
> "history" logs, or the dpkg logs which package finally did draw it in, I
> can only find the date when it was installed together with many (too
> many!) other packages at a certain date, probably the day when I
> upgraded from buster to bullseye.
> Therefore I cannot help you to localize the package which indeed was
> responsible to draw it in.
> 
> If someone could teach me how to narrow down from the candidates to the
> finally responsible package, or some other approach how to derive the
> searched for information, then I could continue to investigate my system
> for you. Otherwise I am stuck and wouldn't know how to help you more.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Marco

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#240836

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On Jo, 30 sep 21, 09:08:37, Hans wrote:
> Hi Marco,
> 
> great job you did there! 
> 
> So, when I am looking at your results, it looks for me, that the package 
> qml-module-org-kde-newstuff is only recommended. 
> 
> But if so, IMO this then is a bug. Just because some things in systemsettings 
> of plasma do not work without this package installed, it should be set to 
> "depends", to make sure it is beeing installed.

That would also make it very difficult to *not* install it for those who 
have a good reason not to.

As per Debian Policy 7.1:

    Recommends

        This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency.

        The Recommends field should list packages that would be found 
        together with this one in all but unusual installations.


What is so unusual about your installation that you decided to disable 
installation of recommends?
 
> I hope, the package maintainers are reading this, too, so it may be fixed and 
> will not be necessary to file a bug.

This list is meant for user support, mostly by other users. It's only 
role in relation to bugs is help reporters find the correct (or at least 
close enough) package to report the bug against, when this is not 
obvious.

Filing a bug[1] is the preferred method to reach the Maintainer and at a 
minimum it helps documenting the issue.

[1] Not that I would recommend (ha!) filing one for this particular 
case. KDE Maintainers already receive more reports than they can handle 
and for any such "please upgrade to Depends" reports there will be 
another person requesting the exact opposite.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#240837

Hi Andrei,

thanks for the response.
> That would also make it very difficult to *not* install it for those who
> have a good reason not to.
> 
> As per Debian Policy 7.1:
> 
>     Recommends
> 
>         This declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency.
> 
>         The Recommends field should list packages that would be found
>         together with this one in all but unusual installations.
> 
> 
> What is so unusual about your installation that you decided to disable
> installation of recommends?
> 

My installation is not unusual. However, I am using aptitude and my config 
says "do not install recommended packages". Additionally I am using orphaner, 
too, to get rid of unused libs and other packages, which are orphaned.

So it might be, that one of these deinstalled this packages. On the other 
hand, even doing so, this should not be happened. And I guess, if this 
packages is "depends", then it would be installes automatically, and not be 
uninstalled by orphaner, too.

> > I hope, the package maintainers are reading this, too, so it may be fixed
> > and will not be necessary to file a bug.
> 
> This list is meant for user support, mostly by other users. It's only
> role in relation to bugs is help reporters find the correct (or at least
> close enough) package to report the bug against, when this is not
> obvious.
> 
> Filing a bug[1] is the preferred method to reach the Maintainer and at a
> minimum it helps documenting the issue.
> 
> [1] Not that I would recommend (ha!) filing one for this particular
> case. KDE Maintainers already receive more reports than they can handle
> and for any such "please upgrade to Depends" reports there will be
> another person requesting the exact opposite.
> 

I am not sure, if I should file a bugreport, as it is no real bug. As it 
seems, that I am the only one, who got into this issue, and could easily fix 
it for me, it seems, everything is ok (although in my personal eyes it is not, 
but this is just my personal opinion!). 

As you said, there are already too much bugreports, so no need to add an 
unnecessary one.

So, just leave it as it is, and when many other people will run into this 
issue, well, then there is just enough time to file a bugreport.

Take this issue as solved.

> Kind regards,
> Andrei


Best regards

Hans

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#240841

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On Du, 03 oct 21, 11:31:33, Hans wrote:
> 
> My installation is not unusual. However, I am using aptitude and my 
> config says "do not install recommended packages". 

This configuration is your personal choice and the side effect of that 
choice is that you must deal with the occasional missing package.

One possible use-case for disabling Recommends completely are 
installations that are *very* space constrained (for whatever reason). 

Since it seems you do have the space for the additional package you 
might want to reconsider your configuration. Is the hassle really worth 
the space saved?

For me personally the answer is "mostly not", so I left Recommends 
enabled and disable them selectively for specific installs, where my 
feeling and/or educated guess is that a significant number of packages 
installed are useless for me.

This is for a small-isch install on a USB stick[1], i.e. space and write 
speed are my main concerns (though reducing writes is probably also a 
good idea).

Of course, this can backfire if one is not careful, e.g. both ppp and 
modemmanager are only Recommends of network-manager[2]. If I choose to 
omit them I might find myself in the situation where I can't connect to 
the internet to download the packages needed to connect to the internet.

[1] 8,2 GiB excluding /home
[2] Which is a reasonable choice for a desktop with a wired 
connection... until you change ISPs and the new one requires PPPoE to 
connect ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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