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iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)

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  iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-28 22:30 +0200
    Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-09-28 22:50 +0200
      Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2021-09-29 00:30 +0200
        Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-29 15:10 +0200
          Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2021-09-30 04:00 +0200
      Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-29 15:20 +0200
        Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-09-29 15:40 +0200
          Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-29 15:50 +0200
            Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-09-29 16:20 +0200
              Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-29 20:50 +0200
                Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-09-29 21:20 +0200
                  Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-09-29 21:40 +0200
                    Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-09-29 22:40 +0200
                    Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-29 23:40 +0200
                  Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-29 23:20 +0200
                    Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-09-30 00:10 +0200
                      Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-09-30 07:30 +0200
                        Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 08:40 +0200
                          Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-30 15:30 +0200
                            Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 01:20 +0200
                        Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-30 15:50 +0200
                      Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-30 16:20 +0200
                        Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-09-30 20:30 +0200
                    Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-30 08:30 +0200
                      Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-30 15:30 +0200
                        Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2021-09-30 16:20 +0200
                          Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-30 17:00 +0200
                            Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-09-30 17:50 +0200
                              Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-30 18:30 +0200
                                Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-09-30 18:40 +0200
                                Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-09-30 19:40 +0200
                            Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2021-09-30 18:10 +0200
                          Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-30 17:50 +0200
                            Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2021-09-30 18:30 +0200
                              Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-30 19:40 +0200
                                Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Henning Follmann <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com> - 2021-09-30 20:10 +0200
                                  Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-09-30 21:40 +0200
                                Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-09-30 22:00 +0200
                              Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-09-30 20:20 +0200
                            Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-30 18:30 +0200
                              Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 20:20 +0200
                                Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-09-30 22:00 +0200
                        Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-09-30 16:30 +0200
        Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-09-30 07:30 +0200
          Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-30 16:00 +0200
            Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-09-30 20:40 +0200
          Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-30 16:40 +0200
            Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-09-30 17:20 +0200
              Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2021-09-30 18:20 +0200
                Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 -  Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-09-30 18:40 +0200

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#240641

Hi David

> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 1:25 PM
> From: "David Wright" <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)
>
> 
> Err, not with bullseye. That's why I'm interested to see how Stella
> gets on with iwd —
>
Me too. I'm keen to know why I'm unable to surf the net even after iwd has connected my machine to my wireless network.

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#240646

Hi Dan,

Thanks for your reply.

> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 6:06 AM
> From: "Dan Ritter" <dsr@randomstring.org>
> To: "Stella Ashburne" <rewefie@gmx.com>
> Cc: "debian-user mailing list" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
> Subject: Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)
>
>
> Might I suggest wicd, which people here do have experience with
> and have used successfully?
>
Before writing this reply, I checked with packages.debian.org and I couldn't find the package wicd in Debian's official list of packages for Debian 11. It seems that it's been removed for some reasons.

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#240678

On Thu 30 Sep 2021 at 16:09:44 (+0200), Stella Ashburne wrote:
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 6:06 AM
> > From: "Dan Ritter" <dsr@randomstring.org>
> >
> > Might I suggest wicd, which people here do have experience with
> > and have used successfully?
> >
> Before writing this reply, I checked with packages.debian.org and I couldn't find the package wicd in Debian's official list of packages for Debian 11. It seems that it's been removed for some reasons.

It requires python2→3 conversion. Python2 is officially expired.

PS I wouldn't email Intel iwd developers. It would be a bit like
calling the Federal Reserve for help filling in a mortgage form.

Cheers,
David.

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#240623

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 11:18:16PM +0200, Stella Ashburne wrote:
> Hi Dan
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 3:09 AM
> > From: "Dan Ritter" <dsr@randomstring.org>
> > To: "Stella Ashburne" <rewefie@gmx.com>
> > Cc: "debian-user mailing list" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
> > Subject: Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)
> >
> > Stella Ashburne wrote:
> > > Hi Dan
> > >
> > > Setting static IP address in network configuration
> > > Add the following section to /var/lib/iwd/network.type file. For example:
> > >
> > > /var/lib/iwd/spaceship.psk
> > > [IPv4]
> > > Address=192.168.1.10
> > > Netmask=255.255.255.0
> > > Gateway=192.168.1.1
> > > Broadcast=192.168.1.255
> > > DNS=192.168.1.1
> > >
> > > In the above example the broadcast IP is 192.168.1.255.
> > >
> > > Question: Does the fourth octet have to be 255?
> >
> > Technically, no. In practice, you are unlikely to see anything
> > else unless you are configuring point-to-point router links.
> >
> Just to confirm that I understood your statement correctly: can I omit the line Broadcast=192.168.1.255 in the file spaceship.psk?

I don't know about iwd specifically, but given address and
netmask it should be able to reasonably infer a default
broadcast. So I'd say "yes, but ask iwd" ;-)

Cheers
 - t

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#240637

Hi

> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 2:29 PM
> From: tomas@tuxteam.de
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)
>
> I don't know about iwd specifically, but given address and
> netmask it should be able to reasonably infer a default
> broadcast. So I'd say "yes, but ask iwd" ;-)
>
Somehow I managed to find out the email addresses of the developers of iwd (who are all from Intel).

Do you think any one of them will reply to my email? It's a long shot, I know.

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#240647

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 03:19:45PM +0200, Stella Ashburne wrote:
> Hi
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 2:29 PM
> > From: tomas@tuxteam.de
> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > Subject: Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)
> >
> > I don't know about iwd specifically, but given address and
> > netmask it should be able to reasonably infer a default
> > broadcast. So I'd say "yes, but ask iwd" ;-)
> >
> Somehow I managed to find out the email addresses of the developers of iwd (who are all from Intel).
> 
> Do you think any one of them will reply to my email? It's a long shot, I know.
>

That depends. How did you get their e-mail address?
Was it from the project webpage? Do they encourage anybody to
send them direct mail?
Them yes.

What baffels me is though, at what length someone would go to not use the default
methods to connect  via wifi. Especially when they showed limited experience
in networking in the first place.

-H

-- 
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com

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#240652

Hi Henning

> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 10:14 PM
> From: "Henning Follmann" <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)
>
>
> That depends. How did you get their e-mail address?
> Was it from the project webpage? Do they encourage anybody to
> send them direct mail?
> Them yes.
>
Yes, their email address are displayed on the project's website.

No, they didn't mention that any Tom, Dick and Harry are welcome to write to them.

> What baffels me is though, at what length someone would go to not use the default
> methods to connect  via wifi. Especially when they showed limited experience
> in networking in the first place.
>
Pray thee, what are the default methods that you speak of?

My OS is plain Debian 11 with just lxqt-core and lightdm installed. I'm tired of using Gnome.

Indeed, I've very limited networking and that's why I'm motivated to learn how to use iwd to surf the net.

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#240655 — Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:54:17 AM Stella Ashburne wrote:
> Yes, their email address are displayed on the project's website.
> 
> No, they didn't mention that any Tom, Dick and Harry are welcome to write
> to them.

Well, thank goodness your name is Stella ;-)  (Sorry!)  

I think the implication of them having their email address on the project's 
website is that Tom, Dick and Harry (and even Stella) are welcome to write to 
them, and they have the implied option of not replying for whatever reason.

Be bold, go where no man has gone before ;-)

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#240664

Hi

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 11:39 PM
> From: rhkramer@gmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)
>
> On Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:54:17 AM Stella Ashburne wrote:
> Yes, their email address are displayed on the project's website.
> No, they didn't mention that any Tom, Dick and Harry are welcome to write
> to them. Well, thank goodness your name is Stella ;-) (Sorry!) I think the implication of them having their email address on the project's website is that Tom, Dick and Harry (and even Stella) are welcome to write to
> them, and they have the implied option of not replying for whatever reason. Be bold, go where no man has gone before ;-)

Your statement: "Be bold, go where no man has gone before"

I suppose that "man" refers to both men and women, right? (Just kidding. In this time and age, one has to be seen to be politically correct, yes?)

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#240665

Stella Ashburne wrote: 
> Hi
> 
> Thanks for your words of encouragement.
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 11:39 PM
> > From: rhkramer@gmail.com
> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > Subject: Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)
> >
> > On Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:54:17 AM Stella Ashburne wrote:
> > Yes, their email address are displayed on the project's website.
> > No, they didn't mention that any Tom, Dick and Harry are welcome to write
> > to them. Well, thank goodness your name is Stella ;-) (Sorry!) I think the implication of them having their email address on the project's website is that Tom, Dick and Harry (and even Stella) are welcome to write to
> > them, and they have the implied option of not replying for whatever reason. Be bold, go where no man has gone before ;-)
> 
> Your statement: "Be bold, go where no man has gone before"
> 
> I suppose that "man" refers to both men and women, right? (Just kidding. In this time and age, one has to be seen to be politically correct, yes?)

Updated in 1987 by Star Trek: The Next Generation

"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the
starship Enterprise. Its continuing mission: to explore strange
new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to
boldly go where no one has gone before."

-dsr-

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#240671 — Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 12:28:54 PM Stella Ashburne wrote:
> Your statement: "Be bold, go where no man has gone before"
> 
> I suppose that "man" refers to both men and women, right? (Just kidding. In
> this time and age, one has to be seen to be politically correct, yes?)

Yes, or at least to Captain Kirk and Uhura (I don't know how to spell that)! 
;-)

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#240660

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 04:54:17PM +0200, Stella Ashburne wrote:
> Hi Henning
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 10:14 PM
> > From: "Henning Follmann" <hfollmann@itcfollmann.com>
> > To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > Subject: Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)
> >
> >
> > That depends. How did you get their e-mail address?
> > Was it from the project webpage? Do they encourage anybody to
> > send them direct mail?
> > Them yes.
> >
> Yes, their email address are displayed on the project's website.

Wow, we do live in a different reality.
I checked the page https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/network/wireless/iwd.git/
I do not see any of their e-mail address displayed there.

So you followed the link to the mailing list and scraped the e-mails from there?

> 
> No, they didn't mention that any Tom, Dick and Harry are welcome to write to them.

I didn't think so.

> 
> > What baffels me is though, at what length someone would go to not use the default
> > methods to connect  via wifi. Especially when they showed limited experience
> > in networking in the first place.
> >
> Pray thee, what are the default methods that you speak of?

Well,
again the first thing I would check is the debian documentation.
Lets look at the  "The Debian Administrator's Handbook" section 8.2
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-handbook/sect.network-config.en.html

And here we find - quote:

"NOTE NetworkManager
If Network Manager is particularly recommended in roaming setups (see Section 8.2.5, “Automatic Network Configuration for Roaming Users”), it is also perfectly usable as the default network management tool. You can create “System connections” that are used as soon as the computer boots either manually with a .ini-like file in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/ or through a graphical tool (nm-connection-editor). If you were using ifupdown, just remember to deactivate the entries in /etc/network/interfaces that you want Network Manager to handle."





> 
> My OS is plain Debian 11 with just lxqt-core and lightdm installed. I'm tired of using Gnome.

again network-manager does not need GNOME.
It works perfectly fine whithout any DE and comes with a cli frontend (nmcli).


next choice through /e/n/i

> 
> Indeed, I've very limited networking and that's why I'm motivated to learn how to use iwd to surf the net.
>

right, sigh, you are willing to learn what you already decided on. Please consider smaller steps.
Install your debian initially just by following the predesigned way. Learn how to use it,
gain knowledge and confidence from there, then venture to more challenging topics.
I think you will be much happier this way.

-H

-- 
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com

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#240657

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:14:05AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:

[...]

> What baffels me is though, at what length someone would go to not use the default
> methods to connect  via wifi. Especially when they showed limited experience
> in networking in the first place.

This remark was, IMO, unnecessary: after all, that's how we learn around here,
don't we?

At least that's how I learn.

Cheers
 - t

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#240662

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 05:48:19PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:14:05AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > What baffels me is though, at what length someone would go to not use the default
> > methods to connect  via wifi. Especially when they showed limited experience
> > in networking in the first place.
> 
> This remark was, IMO, unnecessary: after all, that's how we learn around here,
> don't we?
>
> At least that's how I learn.
> 

That is not me.
I will not encourage anyone to set themselves up for failure.
I might be unpolished, and you expressed before that I am rude.
However I think most people benefit from a realistic point
of their own capabilities.
I just do not think throwing somebody from a ship in the middle
of the ocean and thinking he/she will learn to swim. I rather send
them to the kiddie pool, no matter how offended they are.

And it is not the case that I do not want them to learn. Quite the
opposite is true.

-H

-- 
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com

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#240672

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On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 12:23:45PM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 05:48:19PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > At least that's how I learn.
> > 
> 
> That is not me.

People tend to be different. That makes things... interesting.

> I will not encourage anyone to set themselves up for failure.
> I might be unpolished, and you expressed before that I am rude.

Wait a sec. If I did that (if you say so I take it at face value)
please, accept my apologies.

> However I think most people benefit from a realistic point
> of their own capabilities.
> I just do not think throwing somebody from a ship in the middle
> of the ocean and thinking he/she will learn to swim. I rather send
> them to the kiddie pool, no matter how offended they are.
> 
> And it is not the case that I do not want them to learn. Quite the
> opposite is true.

I I wouldn't propose "throwing somebody from a ship". But if
someone wants to jump, I'd tell them what they can expect
instead of just telling them "don't do it". And have a lifebuoy
at hand.

But we are different and that's OK. I don't suggest you do
like me. I think this is the biggest asset in this list, at
least if we understand how to use it :)

Cheers
 - t

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#240674

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 07:33:45PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 12:23:45PM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 05:48:19PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > At least that's how I learn.
> > > 
> > 
> > That is not me.
> 
> People tend to be different. That makes things... interesting.
> 
> > I will not encourage anyone to set themselves up for failure.
> > I might be unpolished, and you expressed before that I am rude.
> 
> Wait a sec. If I did that (if you say so I take it at face value)
> please, accept my apologies.
> 
No apology necessary. I know I am opinionated and right in your
face (and a reverse snob as my wife regularly points out).
But I am also a big boy, I can take it if you yell back at me.


-H


-- 
Henning Follmann           | hfollmann@itcfollmann.com

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#240684

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 02:05:50PM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:

[...]

> No apology necessary.

OK, thanks.

> I know I am opinionated and right in your
> face (and a reverse snob as my wife regularly points out).
> But I am also a big boy, I can take it if you yell back at me.

Still I try hard to not call people "rude". I may characterise
a message as rude, yes, but not the person behind it.

It doesn't work out always, alas :-)

Cheers
 - t

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#240689

On Thu 30 Sep 2021 at 19:33:45 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 12:23:45PM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 05:48:19PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > At least that's how I learn.
> > > 
> > 
> > That is not me.
> 
> People tend to be different. That makes things... interesting.

That's the bit where advising a user is folloed by

  How do I copy and paste?

or

  What's a terminal?

Interesting? Ever done user-support?
 
> > I will not encourage anyone to set themselves up for failure.
> > I might be unpolished, and you expressed before that I am rude.
> 
> Wait a sec. If I did that (if you say so I take it at face value)
> please, accept my apologies.
> 
> > However I think most people benefit from a realistic point
> > of their own capabilities.
> > I just do not think throwing somebody from a ship in the middle
> > of the ocean and thinking he/she will learn to swim. I rather send
> > them to the kiddie pool, no matter how offended they are.
> > 
> > And it is not the case that I do not want them to learn. Quite the
> > opposite is true.
> 
> I I wouldn't propose "throwing somebody from a ship". But if
> someone wants to jump, I'd tell them what they can expect
> instead of just telling them "don't do it". And have a lifebuoy
> at hand.

Passenger: I've had enough. I am going to jump.
tomas: Can you swim?
Passenger: No.
tomas: You will drown, but I will throw you a lifebuoy.
Passenger: Will that help?
tomas: Not really. We are in Artic waters. You will succumb to
       hypothermia within minites.
Passenger: Can you help to alleviate that?
tomas: Hold on 10 minutes; I'll get you a duvet.
Passenger: That is very civil of you. Will it keep me alive?
tomas: For a time. But I'll be cold tonight! Don't forget; it's
       my duvet.
Passenge: Does the duvet have the Debian logo on it?
tomas: No, just roses.
Passenge: Do you think you could get one with a petunia pattern?
tomas: This boat does not support such patterns.
Passenge: When I sailed with the Gentoo line they ofered all
          flower patterns.
tomas: The packages they offer to users are different.
Passenger: I wish I had used the default method to connect via
           WiFi to my Debian machine. I am doomed!

[Splash.]

[ tomas wonders whether a more proactive stance could have put
the situation on a more even keel.]

[Exit stage left and right.]

-- 
Brian.

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#240676

On Thu 30 Sep 2021 at 12:23:45 -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 05:48:19PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:14:05AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > What baffels me is though, at what length someone would go to not use the default
> > > methods to connect  via wifi. Especially when they showed limited experience
> > > in networking in the first place.
> > 
> > This remark was, IMO, unnecessary: after all, that's how we learn around here,
> > don't we?
> >
> > At least that's how I learn.
> > 
> 
> That is not me.
> I will not encourage anyone to set themselves up for failure.
> I might be unpolished, and you expressed before that I am rude.
> However I think most people benefit from a realistic point
> of their own capabilities.
> I just do not think throwing somebody from a ship in the middle
> of the ocean and thinking he/she will learn to swim. I rather send
> them to the kiddie pool, no matter how offended they are.

Someone jumping in at the deep end is eventually going to learn,
but it frequently would involve someone elses considerable time
and effort. Something to factor in when co-operation is on the
table.

Sharing knowledge and experience with a user who hasn't any clear
concept of what the shallow end is like very often doesn't lead to
a satisfactory outcome. Advising going back to basics is likely to
be of the greatest benefit to both parties.

> And it is not the case that I do not want them to learn. Quite the
> opposite is true.

This is very believable. I wouldn't doubt it.

-- 
Brian.

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#240663

Hi Tomas

> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 11:48 PM
> From: tomas@tuxteam.de
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: iwd: Using iwd to connect to a wireless network (Part 1 - Connection status show OK but unable to surf the net)
>
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:14:05AM -0400, Henning Follmann wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > What baffels me is though, at what length someone would go to not use the default
> > methods to connect  via wifi. Especially when they showed limited experience
> > in networking in the first place.
>
> This remark was, IMO, unnecessary: after all, that's how we learn around here,
> don't we?
>
> At least that's how I learn.
>
Bingo. I couldn't agree with you more.

The main objective of having a mailing list for Debian users is so that we, as a community of like-minded individuals, are able to share our knowledge and experience.

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