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Groups > linux.debian.user > #236255 > unrolled thread

Messed up Email

Started by"Gary L. Roach" <garyroach719@gmail.com>
First post2021-06-22 01:30 +0200
Last post2021-06-27 17:20 +0200
Articles 5 on this page of 45 — 15 participants

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Contents

  Messed up Email "Gary L. Roach" <garyroach719@gmail.com> - 2021-06-22 01:30 +0200
    Re: Messed up Email Mark Allums <mark@allums.email> - 2021-06-22 06:10 +0200
    Gmail's special approach to Email [was: Re: Messed up Email] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-22 10:50 +0200
      Re: Gmail's special approach to Email [was: Re: Messed up Email]  (SOLVED) "Gary L. Roach" <garyroach719@gmail.com> - 2021-06-22 22:20 +0200
    Re: Messed up Email Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-06-22 12:40 +0200
      Re: Messed up Email Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-22 13:10 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-06-22 13:20 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-22 13:40 +0200
            Re: Messed up Email Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-22 13:50 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-22 16:50 +0200
      Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 20:40 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 20:50 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 21:00 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-06-22 21:10 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 21:40 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Michael Grant <mgrant@grant.org> - 2021-06-23 14:00 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-23 21:30 +0200
            Re: Messed up Email Brian Thompson <bthompson.deb@gmail.com> - 2021-06-23 23:20 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-23 23:00 +0200
            Re: Messed up Email Michael Grant <mgrant@grant.org> - 2021-06-23 23:20 +0200
              Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-24 00:30 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-24 20:10 +0200
                  Re: Messed up Email Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-24 20:20 +0200
                    Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 12:40 +0200
                      Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 13:20 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 15:10 +0200
                          Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 16:10 +0200
                            Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200
                      Re: Messed up Email Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-26 13:50 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 16:00 +0200
                          Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 18:00 +0200
                            Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-28 09:30 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:50 +0200
                      Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:30 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-28 08:40 +0200
                  Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-24 22:10 +0200
                    Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-25 00:50 +0200
                      Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-25 20:10 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-25 20:50 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-06-26 04:40 +0200
                          Re: Messed up Email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2021-06-26 15:20 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 12:10 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 14:00 +0200
                  Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 12:20 +0200
                    Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:20 +0200

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#236487

FromJohn Hasler <john@sugarbit.com>
Date2021-06-26 15:20 +0200
Message-ID<Cugo1-6do-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236468
Gene writes:
> I've found that switching fetchmail from pop3 access to imap access,
> restores that delete function. However that may be server dependent,
> my server at shentel.net is dovecot. Very few problems.

Google uses gsmtp, their own implementation.  It's likely that they are
selective in their standards compliance.  If they fully implemented
EXPUNGE (DELETE would remove the mailbox) they would get complaints.
-- 
John Hasler 
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

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#236474

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2021-06-26 12:10 +0200
Message-ID<Cudq9-4fL-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236457

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Vi, 25 iun 21, 19:29:31, mick crane wrote:
> On 2021-06-25 19:04, Brian wrote:
> <snipped>
> > It is perfectly possible to send and receive mail via gmail without
> > ever encountering its web interface. That's no different from any
> > other ISP.
> 
> It seems to me they do not honour the "delete" request when collecting from
> IMAP because in my case they certainly go from INBOX but are retained in ALL
> MAIL.
> mick

Indeed, you have to move them to Trash/Bin/whatever (or Spam) instead 
and delete them from there (or just let the 30 days retention policy 
kick in).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#236483

FromBrian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Date2021-06-26 14:00 +0200
Message-ID<Cuf8C-5ei-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236457
On Fri 25 Jun 2021 at 19:29:31 +0100, mick crane wrote:

> On 2021-06-25 19:04, Brian wrote:
> <snipped>
> > It is perfectly possible to send and receive mail via gmail without
> > ever encountering its web interface. That's no different from any
> > other ISP.
> 
> It seems to me they do not honour the "delete" request when collecting from
> IMAP because in my case they certainly go from INBOX but are retained in ALL
> MAIL.

I can only speak of POP3 and the same happens with that. It's a
feature, and not a bad one, IMO. The same sort of archiving could
be done here with my received mail and a procmail rule.

Anyway, on the Settings page at Gmail I altered the "When messages
are accessed with POP" option to have "delete Gmail's copy". Tested.
No copy in All Mail now. Perhaps IMAP works the same way.

-- 
Brian.

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#236475

FromAndrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Date2021-06-26 12:20 +0200
Message-ID<CudzP-4iF-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236426

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Jo, 24 iun 21, 14:04:13, Celejar wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 01:25:37 +0300
> Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Mi, 23 iun 21, 17:12:07, Michael Grant wrote:
> > > > Apparently the lines are blurry enough for you to include Signal in that 
> > > > list.
> > > 
> > > Why?  Not blurry at all.  Signal is just as closed a system as
> > > WhatsApp.  Maybe more private, but unless you know something I don't,
> > > Signal doesn't talk to anything other than other Signal.  Puppeted
> > > bridges are not interoperability, as far as I am aware, all users
> > > still need to be on Signal.
> > 
> > You seem to be using a completely different meaning of 'proprietary' (no 
> > federation) than I do (closed source software, proprietary protocol that 
> > must be reversed engineered, patents, etc.).
> 
> Well, Michael's original post that you challenged contrasted:
> 
> > a standards based system such as mail or the web and a proprietary
> > system such as facebook, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc etc.
> 
> Would you call Signal "a standards based system?" I understand that the
> software itself is open source, and the project does publish various
> "Signal Protocal" libraries, but I'm not sure that's quite enough to
> call it "standards based."

In the strict definition that would imply there is an RFC or so for the 
Signal Protocol. Still the protocol is published and open for anyone to 
re-implement[1].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_Protocol

How is that proprietary?

The trouble with actually making something a standard is that if later 
it turns out something is a really bad idea it is basically impossible 
to remove, because now it's part of the standard, and several 
implementations have come to rely on that.

[1] several other apps claim to have implemented the Signal Protocol. 

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

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#236541

FromCelejar <celejar@gmail.com>
Date2021-06-27 17:20 +0200
Message-ID<CuEJH-4TM-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#236475
On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 13:14:37 +0300
Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jo, 24 iun 21, 14:04:13, Celejar wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 01:25:37 +0300
> > Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Mi, 23 iun 21, 17:12:07, Michael Grant wrote:
> > > > > Apparently the lines are blurry enough for you to include Signal in that 
> > > > > list.
> > > > 
> > > > Why?  Not blurry at all.  Signal is just as closed a system as
> > > > WhatsApp.  Maybe more private, but unless you know something I don't,
> > > > Signal doesn't talk to anything other than other Signal.  Puppeted
> > > > bridges are not interoperability, as far as I am aware, all users
> > > > still need to be on Signal.
> > > 
> > > You seem to be using a completely different meaning of 'proprietary' (no 
> > > federation) than I do (closed source software, proprietary protocol that 
> > > must be reversed engineered, patents, etc.).
> > 
> > Well, Michael's original post that you challenged contrasted:
> > 
> > > a standards based system such as mail or the web and a proprietary
> > > system such as facebook, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc etc.
> > 
> > Would you call Signal "a standards based system?" I understand that the
> > software itself is open source, and the project does publish various
> > "Signal Protocal" libraries, but I'm not sure that's quite enough to
> > call it "standards based."
> 
> In the strict definition that would imply there is an RFC or so for the 
> Signal Protocol. Still the protocol is published and open for anyone to 
> re-implement[1].
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_Protocol
> 
> How is that proprietary?

I'm not arguing that it's proprietary, but that it's not "standards
based." I agree that the one is not the negation of the other.

> The trouble with actually making something a standard is that if later 
> it turns out something is a really bad idea it is basically impossible 
> to remove, because now it's part of the standard, and several 
> implementations have come to rely on that.

Fair - but standards have advantages, as well. We can debate whether
Signal is better off not using a real standard, but my point remains
that it's somewhat dubious to call Signal "standards based."

> [1] several other apps claim to have implemented the Signal Protocol. 

Celejar

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