Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #236255 > unrolled thread

Messed up Email

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  Messed up Email "Gary L. Roach" <garyroach719@gmail.com> - 2021-06-22 01:30 +0200
    Re: Messed up Email Mark Allums <mark@allums.email> - 2021-06-22 06:10 +0200
    Gmail's special approach to Email [was: Re: Messed up Email] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-22 10:50 +0200
      Re: Gmail's special approach to Email [was: Re: Messed up Email]  (SOLVED) "Gary L. Roach" <garyroach719@gmail.com> - 2021-06-22 22:20 +0200
    Re: Messed up Email Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-06-22 12:40 +0200
      Re: Messed up Email Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-22 13:10 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-06-22 13:20 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-06-22 13:40 +0200
            Re: Messed up Email Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-06-22 13:50 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-06-22 16:50 +0200
      Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 20:40 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 20:50 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 21:00 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Brad Rogers <brad@fineby.me.uk> - 2021-06-22 21:10 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-22 21:40 +0200
        Re: Messed up Email Michael Grant <mgrant@grant.org> - 2021-06-23 14:00 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-23 21:30 +0200
            Re: Messed up Email Brian Thompson <bthompson.deb@gmail.com> - 2021-06-23 23:20 +0200
          Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-23 23:00 +0200
            Re: Messed up Email Michael Grant <mgrant@grant.org> - 2021-06-23 23:20 +0200
              Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-24 00:30 +0200
                Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-24 20:10 +0200
                  Re: Messed up Email Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-24 20:20 +0200
                    Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 12:40 +0200
                      Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 13:20 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 15:10 +0200
                          Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 16:10 +0200
                            Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:40 +0200
                      Re: Messed up Email Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-06-26 13:50 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 16:00 +0200
                          Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 18:00 +0200
                            Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-28 09:30 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:50 +0200
                      Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:30 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-28 08:40 +0200
                  Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-24 22:10 +0200
                    Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-25 00:50 +0200
                      Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-25 20:10 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-25 20:50 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-06-26 04:40 +0200
                          Re: Messed up Email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2021-06-26 15:20 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 12:10 +0200
                        Re: Messed up Email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 14:00 +0200
                  Re: Messed up Email Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-06-26 12:20 +0200
                    Re: Messed up Email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-06-27 17:20 +0200

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

#236255 — Messed up Email

Hi all,

Operating System: Debian GNU/Linux 10
KDE Plasma Version: 5.14.5
Qt Version: 5.11.3
KDE Frameworks Version: 5.54.0
Kernel Version: 4.19.0-16-amd64
OS Type: 64-bit
Processors: 4 × AMD FX(tm)-4350 Quad-Core Processor
Memory: 15.6 GiB of RAM

Thunderbird 78.10.0(64bit)

For some years, I have been using Thunderbird on Debian with no 
problems. Over a year ago I switched to gmail.com (Imap server) for my 
mail server. Everything went fine until about 6 months ago . All of a 
sudden I had an All-Mail folder that wasn't there before. Since then all 
of my Emails are bypassing my InBox and my filters. I decided to sort 
out the All-Mail by creating a new set of filters and running them on 
the All-Mail box. I completely cleaned out all 4000 or so Emails. As 
soon as I restarted Thunderbird all of the old Emails were downloaded 
from the web and re-filled the All-Mail box. Nothing in the InBox. In 
addition, I now have multiple copies of the same messages in all of my 
local folders. In short I have a real mess on my hands. I have seen 
various solutions on the web but none seem to work. I also noted that 
pop servers, unlike imap servers, store all of the files on the local 
computer. Could switching to pop solve this problem? Are there any other 
solutions? Please help.

Gary R.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#236257

On 6/21/2021 6:22 PM, Gary L. Roach wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Operating System: Debian GNU/Linux 10
> KDE Plasma Version: 5.14.5
> Qt Version: 5.11.3
> KDE Frameworks Version: 5.54.0
> Kernel Version: 4.19.0-16-amd64
> OS Type: 64-bit
> Processors: 4 × AMD FX(tm)-4350 Quad-Core Processor
> Memory: 15.6 GiB of RAM
>
> Thunderbird 78.10.0(64bit)
>
> For some years, I have been using Thunderbird on Debian with no 
> problems. Over a year ago I switched to gmail.com (Imap server) for my 
> mail server. Everything went fine until about 6 months ago . All of a 
> sudden I had an All-Mail folder that wasn't there before. Since then 
> all of my Emails are bypassing my InBox and my filters. I decided to 
> sort out the All-Mail by creating a new set of filters and running 
> them on the All-Mail box. I completely cleaned out all 4000 or so 
> Emails. As soon as I restarted Thunderbird all of the old Emails were 
> downloaded from the web and re-filled the All-Mail box. Nothing in the 
> InBox. In addition, I now have multiple copies of the same messages in 
> all of my local folders. In short I have a real mess on my hands. I 
> have seen various solutions on the web but none seem to work. I also 
> noted that pop servers, unlike imap servers, store all of the files on 
> the local computer. Could switching to pop solve this problem? Are 
> there any other solutions? Please help.
>
> Gary R.
>
Check your server account (you may need to log in to webmail). Chances 
are, the ISP/mail provider added a new folder that behaves that way.  
Using filters on the server rather than locally might help, and as you 
surmised, trying POP may help.  It's a feature of IMAP to keep your mail 
locally matching the server.  Perhaps some configuration details could 
be changed.

Mark A.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236263 — Gmail's special approach to Email [was: Re: Messed up Email]

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Lu, 21 iun 21, 16:22:42, Gary L. Roach wrote:
> 
> For some years, I have been using Thunderbird on Debian with no problems.
> Over a year ago I switched to gmail.com (Imap server) for my mail server.
> Everything went fine until about 6 months ago . All of a sudden I had an
> All-Mail folder that wasn't there before.

It most certainly was there, but maybe your Thunderbird wasn't showing 
it (i.e. 'subscribed').

> Since then all of my Emails are
> bypassing my InBox and my filters. I decided to sort out the All-Mail by
> creating a new set of filters and running them on the All-Mail box. I
> completely cleaned out all 4000 or so Emails.

It's not clear, but it seems you are referring to *local* filters (Gmail 
has it's own filtering facility). E.g. I have a rule to archive and mark 
as read all messages that are To or Cc debian-user (but not from other 
Debian lists), so I don't ever see the message in my Gmail Inbox if you 
ever Cc: me on debian-user ;)

> As soon as I restarted
> Thunderbird all of the old Emails were downloaded from the web and re-filled
> the All-Mail box. Nothing in the InBox. In addition, I now have multiple
> copies of the same messages in all of my local folders. In short I have a
> real mess on my hands. I have seen various solutions on the web but none
> seem to work. I also noted that pop servers, unlike imap servers, store all
> of the files on the local computer. Could switching to pop solve this
> problem? Are there any other solutions? Please help.

POP3 is basically just a simple method to download messages locally and 
optionally delete them from the server. As far as I know IMAP4 can do 
everything POP3 can, and more. For your particular issue it probably 
won't help at all.


Quick solution for your problem: just 'unsubscribe' from the 'All Mail' 
folder and carry on.

Long answer:

1. There is only one copy of each message on Gmail, ever.[1]

2. Messages can have one or more 'Labels', that are exposed as separate 
folders via IMAP (or POP if you prefer that).

3. Except for messages in 'Thrash' and 'Spam' every message *also* has 
the Label 'All Mail'. It might help to think of it as *the*
storage / archive for *all* your messages that you still want to keep.

4. Consequently the only way to permanently remove messages from
'All Mail' is to delete them (move to 'Trash') or mark them as spam 
(move to 'Spam'). Both actions will also remove them from *every* other 
Label/IMAP folder.

A side effect of all of the above is that marking a message as read in 
one Label/IMAP folder will also mark it as read in every other 
Label/IMAP folder it (still) exists, because it's the same message from 
Gmail's point of view[2].


[1] This is a long-standing issue for list subscribers that receive list 
mail at the same Gmail address they are using for posting.

Gmail just drops the message returning via the list (because there is 
already a copy in 'Sent') and they can't tell if the message went 
through without checking the archives.

Because of this I just gave up and subscribed a GMX address to the list, 
with the added advantage (for me) of classic IMAP support.

[2] This can actually be helpful for big threads cross-posted to two or 
more lists you are subscribed to, though in general I prefer to have 
separate copies and read/unread state of messages for each list.


Hope this helps,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236328 — Re: Gmail's special approach to Email [was: Re: Messed up Email] (SOLVED)

Thank all of you for your replies,

Andrei's missive below was the fix I needed. After unsubscribing 
"All-Mail" and one other folder, I restarted Thunderbird and my problem 
disappeared. All my mail now passes through my InBox and is processed by 
my local filters. Just what I wanted.

Gary R.

On 6/22/21 1:48 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Lu, 21 iun 21, 16:22:42, Gary L. Roach wrote:
>> For some years, I have been using Thunderbird on Debian with no problems.
>> Over a year ago I switched to gmail.com (Imap server) for my mail server.
>> Everything went fine until about 6 months ago . All of a sudden I had an
>> All-Mail folder that wasn't there before.
> It most certainly was there, but maybe your Thunderbird wasn't showing
> it (i.e. 'subscribed').
>
>> Since then all of my Emails are
>> bypassing my InBox and my filters. I decided to sort out the All-Mail by
>> creating a new set of filters and running them on the All-Mail box. I
>> completely cleaned out all 4000 or so Emails.
> It's not clear, but it seems you are referring to *local* filters (Gmail https://www.google.com/
> has it's own filtering facility). E.g. I have a rule to archive and mark
> as read all messages that are To or Cc debian-user (but not from other
> Debian lists), so I don't ever see the message in my Gmail Inbox if you
> ever Cc: me on debian-user ;)
>
>> As soon as I restarted
>> Thunderbird all of the old Emails were downloaded from the web and re-filled
>> the All-Mail box. Nothing in the InBox. In addition, I now have multiplehttps://www.google.com/
>> copies of the same messages in all of my local folders. In short I have a
>> real mess on my hands. I have seen various solutions on the web but none
>> seem to work. I also noted that pop servers, unlike imap servers, store all
>> of the files on the local computer. Could switching to pop solve this
>> problem? Are there any other solutions? Please help.
> POP3 is basically just a simple method to download messages locally and
> optionally delete them from the server. As far as I know IMAP4 can do
> everything POP3 can, and more. For your particular issue it probably https://www.google.com/
> won't help at all.
>
>
> Quick solution for your problem: just 'unsubscribe' from the 'All Mail'
> folder and carry on.
>
> Long answer:
>
> 1. There is only one copy of each message on Gmail, ever.[1]
>
> 2. Messages can have one or more 'Labels', that are exposed as separate
> folders via IMAP (or POP if you prefer that).
>
> 3. Except for messages in 'Thrash' and 'Spam' every message *also* has
> the Label 'All Mail'. It might help to think of it as *the*
> storage / archive for *all* your messages that you still want to keep.
>
> 4. Consequently the only way to permanently remove messages from
> 'All Mail' is to delete them (move to 'Trash') or mark them as spam
> (move to 'Spam'). Both actions will also remove them from *every* other
> Label/IMAP folder.
>
> A side effect of all of the above is that marking a message as read in
> one Label/IMAP folder will also mark it as read in every other
> Label/IMAP folder it (still) exists, because it's the same message from
> Gmail's point of view[2].
>
>
> [1] This is a long-standing issue for list subscribers that receive list
> mail at the same Gmail address they are using for posting.
>
> Gmail just drops the message returning via the list (because there is
> already a copy in 'Sent') and they can't tell if the message went
> through without checking the archives.
>
> Because of this I just gave up and subscribed a GMX address to the list,
> with the added advantage (for me) of classic IMAP support.
>
> [2] This can actually be helpful for big threads cross-posted to two or
> more lists you are subscribed to, though in general I prefer to have
> separate copies and read/unread state of messages for each list.
>
>
> Hope this helps,
> Andrei

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236267

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to make it
absolutely clear;

gmail != email

or, in words;

gmail IS NOT email


There may be vast swathes of overlap, but don't expect google to do
anything right.

All that google offer is for THEIR benefit, not yours.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Two sides to every story
Public Image - Public Image Ltd

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236269

On 06/22/2021 04:44 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
> In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to make it
> absolutely clear;
> 
> gmail != email
> 
> or, in words;
> 
> gmail IS NOT email
> 
> 
> There may be vast swathes of overlap, but don't expect google to do
> anything right.
> 
> All that google offer is for THEIR benefit, not yours.
> 

One reason I pay a local supplier for email service -- effectively it is 
cheaper than any so called "free service".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236271

On Tuesday 22 June 2021 07:02:25 Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 06/22/2021 04:44 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to make
> > it absolutely clear;
> >
> > gmail != email
> >
> > or, in words;
> >
> > gmail IS NOT email
> >
> >
> > There may be vast swathes of overlap, but don't expect google to do
> > anything right.
> >
> > All that google offer is for THEIR benefit, not yours.
>
> One reason I pay a local supplier for email service -- effectively it
> is cheaper than any so called "free service".

Doesn't your ISP provide an email server? In my neck of the woods, its 
part of the services an ISP provides for a basic 10 megabaud connection.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236272

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On 2021-06-22 at 07:17, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Tuesday 22 June 2021 07:02:25 Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
>> On 06/22/2021 04:44 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
>> 
>>> In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to
>>> make it absolutely clear;
>>> 
>>> gmail != email
>>> 
>>> or, in words;
>>> 
>>> gmail IS NOT email
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There may be vast swathes of overlap, but don't expect google to
>>> do anything right.
>>> 
>>> All that google offer is for THEIR benefit, not yours.
>> 
>> One reason I pay a local supplier for email service -- effectively
>> it is cheaper than any so called "free service".
> 
> Doesn't your ISP provide an email server? In my neck of the woods,
> its part of the services an ISP provides for a basic 10 megabaud
> connection.

Using ISP-provided E-mail comes with the downside of being tied to that ISP.

I used to get an E-mail account through the family's ISP (and in fact I
still have that mailbox configured in Thunderbird, just for access to
the archived local mail stored underneath it), but when we changed ISPs,
I lost access to that account and had to go through a bunch of hoops to
transition to a new address. At that point, I decided it wasn't worth
doing that transition to the address provided by the new ISP, because
what if we changed again in the future?

That's the point at which I searched out, settled on, and signed up with
a third-party standalone-service E-mail provider - in the form of
Fastmail. It's paid off; I've never had cause to regret working with
them, and we've changed ISPs at least once (possibly as much as three
times) in the meanwhile.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236273

On 06/22/2021 06:32 AM, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-06-22 at 07:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
>> On Tuesday 22 June 2021 07:02:25 Richard Owlett wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/22/2021 04:44 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
>>>
>>>> In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to
>>>> make it absolutely clear;
>>>>
>>>> gmail != email
>>>>
>>>> or, in words;
>>>>
>>>> gmail IS NOT email
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There may be vast swathes of overlap, but don't expect google to
>>>> do anything right.
>>>>
>>>> All that google offer is for THEIR benefit, not yours.
>>>
>>> One reason I pay a local supplier for email service -- effectively
>>> it is cheaper than any so called "free service".
>>
>> Doesn't your ISP provide an email server? In my neck of the woods,
>> its part of the services an ISP provides for a basic 10 megabaud
>> connection.
> 
> Using ISP-provided E-mail comes with the downside of being tied to that ISP.

That was part of why I did not pursue it. My ISP is a large national 
provider. I email provider is ~5 miles away and I have purchased 
hardware and software there for 3 decades -- means excellent service.

> 
> I used to get an E-mail account through the family's ISP (and in fact I
> still have that mailbox configured in Thunderbird, just for access to
> the archived local mail stored underneath it), but when we changed ISPs,
> I lost access to that account and had to go through a bunch of hoops to
> transition to a new address. At that point, I decided it wasn't worth
> doing that transition to the address provided by the new ISP, because
> what if we changed again in the future?
> 
> That's the point at which I searched out, settled on, and signed up with
> a third-party standalone-service E-mail provider - in the form of
> Fastmail. It's paid off; I've never had cause to regret working with
> them, and we've changed ISPs at least once (possibly as much as three
> times) in the meanwhile.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236296

On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 07:17:56 -0400
Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:


> Doesn't your ISP provide an email server? In my neck of the woods,
> its part of the services an ISP provides for a basic 10 megabaud
> connection.
> 

It's getting less common in the UK, mostly it comes only with web
hosting. Where it is offered by the ISP, it is usually outsourced.

BT, the national telecoms provider, has always outsourced its email,
even for business customers. About twenty years ago, the advice for
their business customers who wanted email was 'get free Yahoo accounts'.
Yes, really.

Then they started providing email, outsourcing to Yahoo. Now they use
Microsoft, as almost everyone seems to do, either as webmail or as a
virtual Exchange.

-- 
Joe

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236317

On Tue 22 Jun 2021 at 10:44:55 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:

> In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to make it
> absolutely clear;
> 
> gmail != email

Nonsense.
 
> or, in words;
> 
> gmail IS NOT email

More nonsense.
 
> There may be vast swathes of overlap, but don't expect google to do
> anything right.

It cannot handle email in a way *you* approve of?

> All that google offer is for THEIR benefit, not yours.

Continuing nonsense.

> -- 
> Two sides to every story

As you say.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236319

On Tue, 2021-06-22 at 19:36 +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 22 Jun 2021 at 10:44:55 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
[...]
> All that google offer is for THEIR benefit, not yours.
> 
> Continuing nonsense.
> 

No it's not. A commercial company isn't going to do anything altruistic
for our benefit, they do whatever benefit's their bottom line in the
long run.

-- 
Tixy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236321

On Tue 22 Jun 2021 at 19:44:30 +0100, Tixy wrote:

> On Tue, 2021-06-22 at 19:36 +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 22 Jun 2021 at 10:44:55 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> [...]
> > All that google offer is for THEIR benefit, not yours.
> > 
> > Continuing nonsense.
> > 
> 
> No it's not. A commercial company isn't going to do anything altruistic
> for our benefit, they do whatever benefit's their bottom line in the
> long run.

A company's principal concern is that of its shareholders. Otherwise,it
ceases to exist.

That does not imply that altruism or self-interst does not play a part
in its activities.

-- 
Brian.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236322

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:36:33 +0100
Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:

Hello Brian,

>It cannot handle email in a way *you* approve of?

The way google handle electronic communication differs from the way the
everyone else does it.  Like I said, there's huge overlap, but that
means there are differences.

Whether I approve or not is irrelevant.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty
Paradise City - Guns 'N' Roses

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236327

On Tue 22 Jun 2021 at 20:03:29 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:36:33 +0100
> Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hello Brian,
> 
> >It cannot handle email in a way *you* approve of?
> 
> The way google handle electronic communication differs from the way the
> everyone else does it.  Like I said, there's huge overlap, but that
> means there are differences.
> 
> Whether I approve or not is irrelevant.

One lives with what the email provider gives you. I use gmail with
POP3. It has never failed.

I have no real use for the web interface but I can appreciate the
difference, especially after reading Andrei POPESCU:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/06/msg00525.html

-- 
Brian.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236351

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 07:36:33PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 22 Jun 2021 at 10:44:55 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> 
> > In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to make it
> > absolutely clear;
> > 
> > gmail != email
> 
> Nonsense.
>  
> > or, in words;
> > 
> > gmail IS NOT email
> 
> More nonsense.

Not nonsense at all.

gmail is a mail reader (like as Thunderbird, Mutt, Pine, or Outlook (the
program) + a mail server + domain name (gmail.com).

email is set standards which gmail implements.

email is NOT gmail and let's not forget this.

I'm sure most everyone on this list is tech savy enough to understand
that.  Brian, it would astonish me if you don't, but your reply is
difficult to understand your intent whether it's toungue in cheek or
not.

It's quite shocking to me to have conversations with young people,
even into their early 20s who do not understand this distinction.  And
there are many people who do not understand the distinction between a
standards based system such as mail or the web and a proprietary
system such as facebook, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc etc.  And
many of them simply don't care, for them, they just use it because
their friends do.

Michael Grant

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236385

On Wed 23 Jun 2021 at 07:52:02 -0400, Michael Grant wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 07:36:33PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 22 Jun 2021 at 10:44:55 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > 
> > > In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to make it
> > > absolutely clear;
> > > 
> > > gmail != email
> > 
> > Nonsense.
> >  
> > > or, in words;
> > > 
> > > gmail IS NOT email
> > 
> > More nonsense.
> 
> Not nonsense at all.
> 
> gmail is a mail reader (like as Thunderbird, Mutt, Pine, or Outlook (the
> program) + a mail server + domain name (gmail.com).

We are at cross-purposes (I think). My gmail account receives mail,
generally from bugs.debian.org. I download it with POP3 and read it
in mutt. That is all I use it for. It lools email compliant to me.

I am not interested in Google-bashing.

> email is set standards which gmail implements.
> 
> email is NOT gmail and let's not forget this.
> 
> I'm sure most everyone on this list is tech savy enough to understand
> that.  Brian, it would astonish me if you don't, but your reply is
> difficult to understand your intent whether it's toungue in cheek or
> not.
i> 
> It's quite shocking to me to have conversations with young people,
> even into their early 20s who do not understand this distinction.  And
> there are many people who do not understand the distinction between a
> standards based system such as mail or the web and a proprietary
> system such as facebook, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc etc.  And
> many of them simply don't care, for them, they just use it because
> their friends do.

Young people! I've tried to explain to them that the universe is not
expanding. With little avail.

As for the Higgs boson - forget about it!

-- 
Brian.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236391

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 08:22:25PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Wed 23 Jun 2021 at 07:52:02 -0400, Michael Grant wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 07:36:33PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > 
> > gmail is a mail reader (like as Thunderbird, Mutt, Pine, or Outlook (the
> > program) + a mail server + domain name (gmail.com).
> 
> We are at cross-purposes (I think). My gmail account receives mail,
> generally from bugs.debian.org. I download it with POP3 and read it
> in mutt. That is all I use it for. It lools email compliant to me.
> 
> -- 
> Brian.
> 

I'm also currently using gmail for my mailing lists which seems to work
pretty good with its IMAP and SMTP server along with mutt. The provider
I have that hosts my custom domain email <brian@hashvault.io>
unfortunately does not have IMAP support. So I have to forward those
emails I get at that address to my gmail account so that I can use mutt.

I switched to hey-mail a month ago because it looked pretty. Ideally I 
would have my own mail server on my home network.

-- 
Best regards,

Brian T

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236389

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mi, 23 iun 21, 07:52:02, Michael Grant wrote:
> 
> It's quite shocking to me to have conversations with young people,
> even into their early 20s who do not understand this distinction.  And
> there are many people who do not understand the distinction between a
> standards based system such as mail or the web and a proprietary
> system such as facebook, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc etc.  And
> many of them simply don't care, for them, they just use it because
> their friends do.

As far as I can tell it has nothing to do with age, most people 
(including tech savvy ones) just don't see a problem with it.

Apparently the lines are blurry enough for you to include Signal in that 
list.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#236390

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

> Apparently the lines are blurry enough for you to include Signal in that 
> list.

Why?  Not blurry at all.  Signal is just as closed a system as
WhatsApp.  Maybe more private, but unless you know something I don't,
Signal doesn't talk to anything other than other Signal.  Puppeted
bridges are not interoperability, as far as I am aware, all users
still need to be on Signal.

You'll notice that I didn't put Matrix on that list.  One day there
will be multiple Matrix servers and clients and it's not dependent on
any single company's infrastructure.

Michael Grant

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web