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Groups > linux.debian.user > #239127 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-08-22 02:00 +0200 |
| Last post | 2021-08-24 11:20 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 121 — 12 participants |
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smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 02:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 02:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 03:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 05:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 05:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 05:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 05:30 +0200
Re: FOSS "BIOS" (UEFI) (was: Re: smart fans) Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-08-22 07:30 +0200
Re: FOSS "BIOS" (UEFI) (was: Re: smart fans) Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 08:30 +0200
Re: FOSS "BIOS" (UEFI) (was: Re: smart fans) Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 10:30 +0200
Re: FOSS "BIOS" (UEFI) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-08-22 12:10 +0200
Re: FOSS "BIOS" (UEFI) Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 13:30 +0200
Re: FOSS "BIOS" (UEFI) (was: Re: smart fans) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 15:20 +0200
Re: FOSS "BIOS" (UEFI) (was: Re: smart fans) Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 16:30 +0200
Re: FOSS "BIOS" (UEFI) (was: Re: smart fans) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 18:50 +0200
FOSS "BIOS" (UEFI) (was: Re: smart fans) Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 07:30 +0200
Re: smart fans <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-22 09:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 09:50 +0200
Re: smart fans <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-22 10:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 10:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 10:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 10:20 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 10:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 10:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 15:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 16:10 +0200
Re: smart fans The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-08-22 16:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 16:20 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 18:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2021-08-22 17:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 17:50 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-22 09:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 10:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 10:20 +0200
Re: smart fans <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-22 10:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 10:40 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 10:40 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 10:40 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 10:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 11:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 11:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 15:10 +0200
Re: smart fans didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-08-22 11:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 15:10 +0200
Re: smart fans didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-08-22 11:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 11:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 15:10 +0200
Re: smart fans <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-22 15:50 +0200
Re: smart fans rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-22 16:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 16:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 16:10 +0200
Re: smart fans <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-22 16:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 18:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-22 23:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-23 00:20 +0200
Re: smart fans "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-08-22 16:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 18:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-22 19:00 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-22 23:10 +0200
Re: smart fans <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-23 10:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-23 21:10 +0200
Re: smart fans <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-23 21:10 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-23 21:30 +0200
Re: smart fans <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-23 21:40 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-23 22:30 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-24 00:30 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-22 22:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 23:20 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-22 21:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 22:00 +0200
Re: smart fans didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-08-22 23:20 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 23:40 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-22 23:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-23 00:40 +0200
Re: smart fans didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-08-23 09:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 22:20 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-22 23:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 23:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-22 23:50 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-23 00:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-23 02:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-23 02:10 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-23 02:40 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-23 03:00 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-23 03:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-23 21:00 +0200
Re: smart fans "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-24 18:20 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-24 23:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-23 03:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-23 21:00 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-23 03:20 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-23 21:00 +0200
Re: smart fans "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-08-23 22:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-23 23:00 +0200
Re: smart fans "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-08-23 23:30 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-24 00:50 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-24 01:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-24 02:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-24 03:00 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-24 04:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-24 05:20 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-24 09:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-24 23:20 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-24 23:40 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-24 00:40 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-24 00:20 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-24 02:10 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-24 04:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-24 07:30 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-24 09:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-25 00:20 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-25 01:30 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-08-29 01:00 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-29 12:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-09-04 00:10 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-09-04 03:50 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-09-04 04:50 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-09-04 23:00 +0200
Re: smart fans Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> - 2021-09-07 03:10 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-09-07 23:20 +0200
Re: smart fans David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-24 11:20 +0200
Page 3 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 Next page →
| From | Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 11:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COSh3-87X-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239158 |
didier gaumet wrote: >> Okay, but is that even possible? > > Yes. If you want more details, read the previous link to an > explanation of differences between 3 and 4 pins connectors: > there are pictures to illustrate different possible > combinations between 3 or 4 pins fan connectors and 3 or 4 > pins motherboard connectors > >> How? In the UEFI? > > Yes, refer to the 3.2.3 section of your manual OK, king. Or roi maybe... -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 15:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COVoC-1JB-33@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239160 |
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On 2021-08-22 5:49 a.m., Emanuel Berg wrote: > didier gaumet wrote: > >>> Okay, but is that even possible? >> >> Yes. If you want more details, read the previous link to an >> explanation of differences between 3 and 4 pins connectors: >> there are pictures to illustrate different possible >> combinations between 3 or 4 pins fan connectors and 3 or 4 >> pins motherboard connectors >> >>> How? In the UEFI? >> >> Yes, refer to the 3.2.3 section of your manual > > OK, king. Or roi maybe... > ?? -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 11:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COSh3-87X-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239158 |
Le dimanche 22 août 2021 à 11:27 +0200, Emanuel Berg a écrit : > > Okay, but is that even possible? Yes. If you want more details, read the previous link to an explanation of differences between 3 and 4 pins connectors: there are pictures to illustrate different possible combinations between 3 or 4 pins fan connectors and 3 or 4 pins motherboard connectors > How? In the UEFI? Yes, refer to the 3.2.3 section of your manual
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 15:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COVoC-1JB-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239158 |
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On 2021-08-22 5:27 a.m., Emanuel Berg wrote: > didier gaumet wrote: > >> Here is your motherboard user manual [...] >> https://rog.asus.com/us/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b450-f-gaming-model/helpdesk_manual >> Look at 3.2.3 section for fan control > > OK! > >> I could be entirely wrong but what I would imagine is that >> fan control is by default managed directly by the UEFI of >> your motherboard, not by the OS. > > Yes. > >> But that to be really efficient il would require 4-pins fans >> to have been mounted. > > Okay, but is that even possible? What is possible ? 4 pins fans ? Yes it is possible (4 wire fans) and you have received many links on the subject. I've sent you link and dider sent you the same ones. > >> For 3-pins fans in your situation, I would suggest trying to >> delegate fan management from the UEFI to the OS (Linux) by >> (possibly setting the fan profile to "manual") and the mode >> from "PWM" to "DC" > > How? In the UEFI? > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 11:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CORXI-81w-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239156 |
Le dimanche 22 août 2021 à 10:41 +0200, Emanuel Berg a écrit : > But then why doesn't pwmconfig ask for 4-pin fans? It asks for > 3-pin fans so while ineffective it's something people still > care to do. Here is an explanation of differences between 3 and 4 pins fans: https://www.howtogeek.com/273575/what-is-the-difference-between-three-and-four-pin-cpu-fans/ Here is your motherboard user manual (pick your own language): https://rog.asus.com/us/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b450-f-gaming-model/helpdesk_manual Look at 3.2.3 section for fan control I could be entirely wrong but what I would imagine is that fan control is by default managed directly by the UEFI of your motherboard, not by the OS. But that to be really efficient il would require 4-pins fans to have been mounted. For 3-pins fans in your situation, I would suggest trying to delegate fan management from the UEFI to the OS (Linux) by (possibly setting the fan profile to "manual") and the mode from "PWM" to "DC"
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| From | Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 11:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CORuF-7Ca-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239153 |
Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > The significant difference in practice is that 4-pin fans > allow for RPM to change based on the need for cooling > temperature, this reduces noise and power consumption. > While 3-pin can control the voltage, but the voltage can't > turn to change the fan RPM at all and accurate as much as 4 > pin fans. OK, but since there are temperature readings from the GPU and the CPU _and_ 3-pin fans doesn't that mean it should be able to control (the voltage) them based on the temperature? 4-pin fans wouldn't be possible because of the motherboard sockets, I think, which are also 3-pin. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 15:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COVoD-1JB-37@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239157 |
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On 2021-08-22 4:39 a.m., Emanuel Berg wrote: > Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > >> The significant difference in practice is that 4-pin fans >> allow for RPM to change based on the need for cooling >> temperature, this reduces noise and power consumption. >> While 3-pin can control the voltage, but the voltage can't >> turn to change the fan RPM at all and accurate as much as 4 >> pin fans. > > OK, but since there are temperature readings from the GPU and > the CPU _and_ 3-pin fans doesn't that mean it should be able > to control (the voltage) them based on the temperature? > Like I already wrote, modifying voltage doesn't change speed of a motor (fan). > 4-pin fans wouldn't be possible because of the motherboard > sockets, I think, which are also 3-pin. > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 15:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COW1j-1WE-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239169 |
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On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 09:03:51AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: [...] > Like I already wrote, modifying voltage doesn't change speed of a motor > (fan). I disagree. The thing poses [1] as a DC motor (2 pins power, one tacho). I don't think you get too much control over RPM, but putting the tacho in the control loop should be possible. I have no idea what the motherboard/fan manufacturers actually do, though. Cheers [1] I'm nearly certain it's a BLDC in disguise, with some electronic goo. - t
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| From | rhkramer@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 16:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COWkF-2iK-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239171 |
On Sunday, August 22, 2021 09:41:59 AM tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 09:03:51AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside > > Like I already wrote, modifying voltage doesn't change speed of a motor > > (fan). > > I disagree. The thing poses [1] as a DC motor (2 pins power, one tacho). > I don't think you get too much control over RPM, but putting the tacho > in the control loop should be possible. +1. A voltage controlled DC (computer fan) motor can be controlled / regulated down to about 40% of full rated speed (depending on the motor). A PWM (computer fan) motor can be controlled down to about 20% of full rated speed. > I have no idea what the motherboard/fan manufacturers actually do, though. I know that at least some motherboards (perhaps only older ones?) controlled fan speed via voltage control. > [1] I'm nearly certain it's a BLDC in disguise, with some electronic goo.
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| From | Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 16:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COWXo-2xF-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239173 |
rhkramer wrote:
> +1. A voltage controlled DC (computer fan) motor can be
> controlled / regulated down to about 40% of full rated speed
> (depending on the motor). A PWM (computer fan) motor can be
> controlled down to about 20% of full rated speed.
I found some web pages that describe the individual fans.
fan front low be quiet! Shadow Wings 2 140 mm [1]
front high be quiet! Shadow Wings 2 140 mm
CPU cooling tower be quiet! Pure Wings 2 120 mm (2) [2]
rear Corsair 120 mm
projector extra fractal Silent Series R3 140 mm [3]
(connectors are 3-pin)
[1] https://www.bequiet.com/en/casefans/shadow-wings-2/1620
"available with or without PWM control"
[2] https://www.bequiet.com/en/casefans/449
"Fan speed @ 100% PWM / 12V: 1500 RPM"
[3] https://www.fractal-design.com/products/fans/silent/silent-series-r3-140mm/black/
(Doesn't mention PWM.)
https://dataswamp.org/~incal/ebchw/COMPUTER
--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal
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| From | Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 16:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COWkG-2iK-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239171 |
tomas wrote: > I disagree. The thing poses [1] as a DC motor (2 pins power, > one tacho). I don't think you get too much control over RPM That's what you get with the 4th wire/pin? A sensor to read RPM? "What you can't measure, you can't control" -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 16:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COWE2-2pS-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239175 |
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On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 04:02:48PM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: > tomas wrote: > > > I disagree. The thing poses [1] as a DC motor (2 pins power, > > one tacho). I don't think you get too much control over RPM > > That's what you get with the 4th wire/pin? A sensor to > read RPM? Re-read the Wikipedia I quoted: according to that, that's the third pin of the three-pin thingie (aka tacho, like bikes have :) The *fourth* pin is PWM, i.e. speed control. Debate's up whether you can control a three-pin fan by regulating its DC voltage (the motherboard/chipset would have to provide that, of course). Some of us say it can be done, rhkramer says it has (at least) been done. > "What you can't measure, you can't control" ...it rather controls you ;-) I think the tacho originally was important to have a "live signal", in the times fans were more unreliable. If it gets stuck because the bushing went bad, software can take action before the CPU goes in flames. These days things fail more gracefully at several levels. Cheers - t
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 18:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COYPw-3Mb-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239175 |
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On 2021-08-22 10:02 a.m., Emanuel Berg wrote: > tomas wrote: > >> I disagree. The thing poses [1] as a DC motor (2 pins power, >> one tacho). I don't think you get too much control over RPM > > That's what you get with the 4th wire/pin? A sensor to > read RPM? > Opposite 3 wire = 2 wire to drive motor + 1 wire to get speed 4 wire = 2 wire to drive, 1 to get speed, 1 to modify speed > "What you can't measure, you can't control" > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 23:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CP2T7-6tC-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239193 |
On Sunday 22 August 2021 12:46:14 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > On 2021-08-22 10:02 a.m., Emanuel Berg wrote: > > tomas wrote: > >> I disagree. The thing poses [1] as a DC motor (2 pins power, > >> one tacho). I don't think you get too much control over RPM > > > > That's what you get with the 4th wire/pin? A sensor to > > read RPM? > > Opposite > 3 wire = 2 wire to drive motor + 1 wire to get speed > 4 wire = 2 wire to drive, 1 to get speed, 1 to modify speed > I as a CET, am totally unimpressed with the miss-information being thrown about in this thread. A total lack of how its actually done in real hardware. 1. Any si diode, passing a few microamps of fwd current, is in fact an excellent, does not need to be calibrated, thermometer capable of 1 degree C accuracy. There are several million candidates buried in todays cpu's. 2, even a 2 wire fan can be controlled by using this voltage to determine the on time of a small transistor. Often down to 1% speed at room tmps, so other than the cost of the time at die bondout time, its free. The 1% minimum is actually used to help distribute the motors lubricant. 3, boiled down, the temp measured by this diode can be scaled to control the fan to maintain the device being monitored at a fixed maximum temp, and its done on 2 or 3 of the gates on the cpu die intended to be used to replace a bad gate in you cpu. Intelligently done at test and bondout time, it might add 10 seconds to the time needed to verify the rest of the chip. > > "What you can't measure, you can't control" Better, if you can measure it, you can control a 2 wite motor. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-23 00:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CP3YR-78P-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239215 |
On Sunday 22 August 2021 17:04:06 Gene Heskett wrote: > On Sunday 22 August 2021 12:46:14 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > On 2021-08-22 10:02 a.m., Emanuel Berg wrote: > > > tomas wrote: > > >> I disagree. The thing poses [1] as a DC motor (2 pins power, > > >> one tacho). I don't think you get too much control over RPM > > > > > > That's what you get with the 4th wire/pin? A sensor to > > > read RPM? > > > > Opposite > > 3 wire = 2 wire to drive motor + 1 wire to get speed > > 4 wire = 2 wire to drive, 1 to get speed, 1 to modify speed > > I as a CET, am totally unimpressed with the miss-information being > thrown about in this thread. A total lack of how its actually done in > real hardware. > > 1. Any si diode, passing a few microamps of fwd current, is in fact an > excellent, does not need to be calibrated, thermometer capable of 1 > degree C accuracy. There are several million candidates buried in > todays cpu's. > > 2, even a 2 wire fan can be controlled by using this voltage to > determine the on time of a small transistor. Often down to 1% speed at > room tmps, so other than the cost of the time at die bondout time, its > free. The 1% minimum is actually used to help distribute the motors > lubricant. > > 3, boiled down, the temp measured by this diode can be scaled to > control the fan to maintain the device being monitored at a fixed > maximum temp, and its done on 2 or 3 of the gates on the cpu die > intended to be used to replace a bad gate in you cpu. Intelligently > done at test and bondout time, it might add 10 seconds to the time > needed to verify the rest of the chip. > > > > "What you can't measure, you can't control" > > Better, if you can measure it, you can control a 2 wite motor. > And I knew I couldn't get by without a typu. s/b wire. In fact, if a motor has 3 wires, there is a good chance its a tacho wire, used ONLY to tell /you/ how fast its running. > Cheers, Gene Heskett Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
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| From | "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 16:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COWE1-2pS-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239171 |
Hi, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > Like I already wrote, modifying voltage doesn't change speed of a motor > > (fan). tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > I disagree. [...] > I have no idea what the motherboard/fan manufacturers actually do, though. Voltage reduction is a tradional method to curb overly eager DC fans. I have seen successful use of resistor adapters between fan cable and mainboard. A quick search with "fan voltage control" yields https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_fan_control#Linear_voltage_regulation and others which state that 2-pin and 3-pin are only controllable via voltage reduction whereas 4-pin indicate the capability for the competing method of Pulse-Width Modulation (PWM). Resistors can be seen at https://www.amazon.com/computer-fan-resistor/s?k=computer+fan+resistor rhkramer@gmail.com wrote meanwhile: > A voltage controlled DC (computer fan) motor can be controlled / > regulated down to about 40% of full rated speed (depending on the motor). That's what i read in the web and what i witnessed as effect of resistors on dumb fans. Have a nice day :) Thomas
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 18:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COYPv-3Mb-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239171 |
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On 2021-08-22 9:41 a.m., tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 09:03:51AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > [...] > >> Like I already wrote, modifying voltage doesn't change speed of a motor >> (fan). > > I disagree. The thing poses [1] as a DC motor (2 pins power, one tacho). > I don't think you get too much control over RPM, but putting the tacho > in the control loop should be possible. > > I have no idea what the motherboard/fan manufacturers actually do, though. Yes it is possible to modify speed of a motor by varying DC voltage. But this is not the case in the present situation. > > Cheers > > [1] I'm nearly certain it's a BLDC in disguise, with some electronic goo. > > - t > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 19:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <COYZc-3Py-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239191 |
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On 2021-08-22 12:43 p.m., Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > > On 2021-08-22 9:41 a.m., tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: >> On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 09:03:51AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>> Like I already wrote, modifying voltage doesn't change speed of a motor >>> (fan). >> >> I disagree. The thing poses [1] as a DC motor (2 pins power, one tacho). >> I don't think you get too much control over RPM, but putting the tacho >> in the control loop should be possible. >> >> I have no idea what the motherboard/fan manufacturers actually do, though. > Yes it is possible to modify speed of a motor by varying DC voltage. But > this is not the case in the present situation. I mean without resorting to adding extra hardware. And personally I find it a bit crazy to add stuff so you can cut off your fans without ensuring that they can also be started if temperature rise in *autonomous* way. I missed part of the conversation and we are now getting into a DIY project with switches, resistor and more. In some way, developing some way to cut the safety net. >> >> Cheers >> >> [1] I'm nearly certain it's a BLDC in disguise, with some electronic goo. >> >> - t >> > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
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| From | David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-22 23:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CP2T7-6tC-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239171 |
On 8/22/21 6:41 AM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 09:03:51AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > [...] > >> Like I already wrote, modifying voltage doesn't change speed of a motor >> (fan). > > I disagree. The thing poses [1] as a DC motor (2 pins power, one tacho). > [1] I'm nearly certain it's a BLDC in disguise, with some electronic goo. What is "BLDC"? On 8/22/21 7:25 AM, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > A quick search with "fan voltage control" yields > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_fan_control#Linear_voltage_regulation Thank you -- that has the EE information I have been wanting. David
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-08-23 10:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <CPdbP-4vH-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #239216 |
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On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 02:02:45PM -0700, David Christensen wrote: [...] > What is "BLDC"? Brushless (electric) DC motor [1]. Back Then (TM ;-), to turn an electric motor around you had to switch around the magnetic field in the coils at (about) the right time. This was accomplished by sliding contacts (aka "brushes") on a sectioned cylinder. These days you use silicon magic (aka electronics to accomplish the same thing. I say "back then" above, but there seem to be design parameters which still favour brushes. My reasonably recent power drill still has brushes. Cheers [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLDC - t
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