Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.user > #238863 > unrolled thread

Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.user

Contents

  Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 13:30 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-08-17 14:10 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 15:10 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 15:20 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-17 15:30 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 16:10 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-17 21:20 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-08-18 13:30 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 15:10 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 15:30 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-18 04:10 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-17 18:10 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-17 19:40 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-17 19:50 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 19:50 +0200
        Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready  for bullseye) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-08-18 13:40 +0200
          Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-18 14:30 +0200
            Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye) Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-08-18 15:10 +0200
              Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-19 14:30 +0200
                Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye) Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-08-20 11:30 +0200
                Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready  for bullseye) piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-20 13:00 +0200
                  Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-20 13:50 +0200
                    Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting ready  for bullseye) piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-20 15:40 +0200
                      Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-21 02:40 +0200
            Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-08-19 14:50 +0200
          Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 18:30 +0200
            Re: Reading of release notes (was Re: Still on stretch, getting  ready for bullseye) "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 23:20 +0200
      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-17 23:00 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-17 23:00 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-17 23:50 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 03:40 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 02:10 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Kushal Kumaran <kushal@locationd.net> - 2021-08-18 03:40 +0200
        Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 00:10 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 00:50 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 01:30 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 07:40 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-18 03:00 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 05:30 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-18 09:00 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-18 13:10 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 03:50 +0200
              Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-18 04:10 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-18 09:10 +0200
                  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 10:20 +0200
                    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 14:10 +0200
                      Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 19:30 +0200
                Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 09:50 +0200
                  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 10:40 +0200
                    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-08-20 20:20 +0200
                  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-18 12:40 +0200
                  Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-08-19 18:00 +0200
            Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-08-18 12:40 +0200
          Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 07:30 +0200
    Re: Still on stretch, getting ready for bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-08-17 21:10 +0200

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

#238951

On 18/08/2021 07:57, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 01:53:16AM +0100, piorunz wrote:
>> Why are you repeating this?


> Because Andrew is a nice person. Which I do appreciate highly.
> Why shouldn't he? Why would you not want him to do?

Please see my other reply:
"> Amazing analogy. Gene has been given plenty of water, but he keeps
 > coming back for more while not taking even one sip yet. He failed to
 > RTFM but he asks and thanks for cherry-picked suggestions from mentioned
 > manual. He will end up with broken or at least not fully optimized
system."

And also note:
No offence to Gene, or to anyone. I am just trying to keep discussion
straightforward. No cherry picked solutions should be given, when there
is very important and mandatory, I could say, manual to read. Not
sending user to this manual to get the knowledge is actually not
helping, but harming the user.


--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238935

On Tuesday 17 August 2021 18:48:34 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 11:05:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 16:54:54 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?
> >
> > What, in this helpful thread, do you find difficult to understand?
> >
> > You have a collection of important machines in your charge. The
> > complexity of managing them does not appear to be your forte.
> > Eptness appears to have deserted you.
> >
> > Stick wuth what you have. It is less strain on you and on us. :)
> >
> > --
> > Brian.
>
> Brian - maybe a bit more consideration? Any of us can be exasperating
> but it's worth spending some time with Gene to get it right.
>
> Gene,
>
> You have two upgrades to do.
>
> One from stretch -> buster. 9-10 That takes you from 2017 -> 2019.
>
> If you can reduce your /etc/apt/sources.list by commenting out third
> party repositories like Trinity, that will help.
>
> [Taken from https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using]
>
> The Stretch /etc/apt/sources.list should look like this:
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
>
> deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib
> non-free
>
> Bring Stretch up to date finally: apt update ; apt full-upgrade
>
> Go find the release notes for Buster:
>
> https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/index.en.ht
>ml - especially Section 4 and 5
>
> Buster sources.list - Buster was the first list to use deb.debian.org
> extensively
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free
>
> deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main
> contrib non-free deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> buster/updates main contrib non-free
>
> [Taken from https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade]
>
> Use apt update ; apt upgrade ; apt full-upgrade (optionally apt
> autoremove)
>
> Buster to Bullseye - 10-11 - 2019-2021
>
> Follow the same process again, essentially
>
> Bullseye sources.list
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main contrib non-free
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ bullseye-security main
> contrib non-free deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/
> bullseye-security main contrib non-free
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main contrib
> non-free deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main
> contrib non-free
>
> Uncomment third party repositories - change appropriately, then apt
> update ; apt upgrade ; apt full-upgrade
>
> It's worth taking time to do this and writing down what step you've
> taken (or just print off the appropriate pages and use them as a tick
> list) There's a lot to do and it's _easy_ to mess up.
>
> Take care - all best, as always,
>
> Andy Cater

Thank you Andy, thats more of the recipe I need to follow.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238937

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 09:48:10PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 17 August 2021 18:48:34 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > [an abridged version of the release notes]

> Thank you Andy, thats more of the recipe I need to follow.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

See, *this* is exactly what I tried to avoid -- giving someone an
inferior version of the release notes, empowering their laziness,
and possibly leading them into a failed state due to skippng some
of the important warnings.

With a normal system, a shortened version of the upgrade procedure
without the warnings and pre-checks and post-checks might be OK,
but this is *Gene*.  We know he does not have normal systems.

He needs *all* of the warnings.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238943

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 10:01:32PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 09:48:10PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 17 August 2021 18:48:34 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > [an abridged version of the release notes]
> 
> > Thank you Andy, thats more of the recipe I need to follow.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
> See, *this* is exactly what I tried to avoid -- giving someone an
> inferior version of the release notes, empowering their laziness,
[...]

What's this new fashion around here? If you don't want to help
someone, that's your right. If you haven't the time/energy,
that's fine. If someone gets onto your nerves: normal in such
a big list. Killfile him/her: you've got the technical chops
to do that and then some.

But trying to prevent others to help others (there have been
other posts already to that effect), that's disgusting.

Sorry.
 - t

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238945

On Wed, 2021-08-18 at 09:03 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 10:01:32PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 09:48:10PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 17 August 2021 18:48:34 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > > [an abridged version of the release notes]
> > 
> > > Thank you Andy, thats more of the recipe I need to follow.
> > > 
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > 
> > See, *this* is exactly what I tried to avoid -- giving someone an
> > inferior version of the release notes, empowering their laziness,
> [...]
> 
> What's this new fashion around here? If you don't want to help
> someone, that's your right.

Greg *was* trying to help Gene (and us) by getting him to read
documentation from the Debian project, rather than picking one of
several different 'easy' suggestions from this list.

If you read the release notes you get a clue what to expect and what to
do. Or you can not bother and just rely on the helpful people on this
list.

I know from my upgrade to Buster I had to take action due to AppArmor
and nftables now being default and ending up migrating from legacy
network names to new 'predictable' network names. Looking at the
release notes again, there's also changes to increase security with
sshd and OpenSSL, and with Systemd needing entropy at boot (Gene has
some ARM boards the latter may hit).

Want to take bets that Gene won't be back in a few days with problems
caused by some of the above changes? He could save himself, and you,
time and hassle if he read the release notes.

-- 
Tixy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238957

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 09:12:24AM +0100, Tixy wrote:
> On Wed, 2021-08-18 at 09:03 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 10:01:32PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 09:48:10PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday 17 August 2021 18:48:34 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > > > [an abridged version of the release notes]
> > > 
> > > > Thank you Andy, thats more of the recipe I need to follow.
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > 
> > > See, *this* is exactly what I tried to avoid -- giving someone an
> > > inferior version of the release notes, empowering their laziness,
> > [...]
> > 
> 
> Greg *was* trying to help Gene (and us) by getting him to read
> documentation from the Debian project, rather than picking one of
> several different 'easy' suggestions from this list.
> 
> If you read the release notes you get a clue what to expect and what to
> do. Or you can not bother and just rely on the helpful people on this
> list.
> 
> I know from my upgrade to Buster I had to take action due to AppArmor
> and nftables now being default and ending up migrating from legacy
> network names to new 'predictable' network names. Looking at the
> release notes again, there's also changes to increase security with
> sshd and OpenSSL, and with Systemd needing entropy at boot (Gene has
> some ARM boards the latter may hit).
> 
> Want to take bets that Gene won't be back in a few days with problems
> caused by some of the above changes? He could save himself, and you,
> time and hassle if he read the release notes.
> 

Yes, yes, and yes. Agreed that you should read the release notes.

I tried to put more of it into one email with pointers to where the info was 
derived from so that it was in one place rather than five emails.
A convenience factor - not detracting from anybody else's suggestions.

Like all of us, Gene has his own ways of doing things, his own
habits and his own ability to do things. That's a necessarily "different
approach from the way I'd do it / different from my experience / abd I'm sure
I could do it better myself" situation.
 
That's OK - his systems, his problems to sort if stuff goes
wrong - and yes, we could get into a to and fro of a longer thread - but
if any one of the emails above sorts out how to do this with good will
and good humour - it's a net win for all concerned.

The list archives are searchable: Google will find stuff on keywords and
the next person to look will find some element of step by step instructions.

> -- 
> Tixy
> 

All the best to all on the list, as ever,

Andy Cater

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238975

On Wednesday 18 August 2021 08:05:43 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 09:12:24AM +0100, Tixy wrote:
> > On Wed, 2021-08-18 at 09:03 +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 10:01:32PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 09:48:10PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday 17 August 2021 18:48:34 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > > > > [an abridged version of the release notes]
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you Andy, thats more of the recipe I need to follow.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > >
> > > > See, *this* is exactly what I tried to avoid -- giving someone
> > > > an inferior version of the release notes, empowering their
> > > > laziness,
> > >
> > > [...]
> >
> > Greg *was* trying to help Gene (and us) by getting him to read
> > documentation from the Debian project, rather than picking one of
> > several different 'easy' suggestions from this list.
> >
> > If you read the release notes you get a clue what to expect and what
> > to do. Or you can not bother and just rely on the helpful people on
> > this list.
> >
> > I know from my upgrade to Buster I had to take action due to
> > AppArmor and nftables now being default and ending up migrating from
> > legacy network names to new 'predictable' network names. Looking at
> > the release notes again, there's also changes to increase security
> > with sshd and OpenSSL, and with Systemd needing entropy at boot
> > (Gene has some ARM boards the latter may hit).
> >
> > Want to take bets that Gene won't be back in a few days with
> > problems caused by some of the above changes? He could save himself,
> > and you, time and hassle if he read the release notes.
>
> Yes, yes, and yes. Agreed that you should read the release notes.
>
> I tried to put more of it into one email with pointers to where the
> info was derived from so that it was in one place rather than five
> emails. A convenience factor - not detracting from anybody else's
> suggestions.
>
> Like all of us, Gene has his own ways of doing things, his own
> habits and his own ability to do things. That's a necessarily
> "different approach from the way I'd do it / different from my
> experience / abd I'm sure I could do it better myself" situation.
>
> That's OK - his systems, his problems to sort if stuff goes
> wrong - and yes, we could get into a to and fro of a longer thread -
> but if any one of the emails above sorts out how to do this with good
> will and good humour - it's a net win for all concerned.
>
And I should also point out that the 147 IQ I tested at in the 6th grade 
nominally 75 years ago, is at 86, no longer daily achieved, even with a 
daily B1 in the pilltainer.

I guess he isn't ready for me, or I'd have missed roll call years ago, 
but most pulmonary embolisms, which I had at 79 yo courtesy of a "one a 
day" vitamin with way too much vitamin k in it, have a 2% survival rate, 
but the oxygen starvation did cost me some of those.

And while doing this, I am also doing a pair of designs in openscad, one 
of a rotary drive for a cnc machine, Costing 1% of the commercial 
product, and ATM, measureing parts that have never been combined to make 
a mount for a sherpa direct drive 3d printers extruder driver, and a 
cheap haldis "volcano" hot end assembly with a side mounted BLTouch 
probe. All to fit on a CR10-S Pro V2 printer whose hot end was cooked 
out of service by the increase in temps that feeding it PETG filament 
needs.

All that is way off-topic for this list, only related to show where I now 
am mentally/physically. How many 86 yo's do you know that can still 
claim doing that...

But now it takes me a week to recover from what I once did all day. That 
tends to go with a rebuilt heart thats pumping 30% of what it did 70 
year ago, now timed by a pacemaker.

> The list archives are searchable: Google will find stuff on keywords
> and the next person to look will find some element of step by step
> instructions.

And that has to be good for far more folks than this fading old fart 
represents.

Thank you. And take care, ALL of you.

> > --
> > Tixy
>
> All the best to all on the list, as ever,
>
> Andy Cater


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238944

On Tue, 2021-08-17 at 22:01 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 09:48:10PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 17 August 2021 18:48:34 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > [an abridged version of the release notes]
> 
> > Thank you Andy, thats more of the recipe I need to follow.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
> See, *this* is exactly what I tried to avoid -- giving someone an
> inferior version of the release notes, empowering their laziness,
> and possibly leading them into a failed state due to skippng some
> of the important warnings.
> 
> With a normal system, a shortened version of the upgrade procedure
> without the warnings and pre-checks and post-checks might be OK,
> but this is *Gene*.  We know he does not have normal systems.
> 
> He needs *all* of the warnings.
> 

I agree with all of the above, but as the saying goes: 'you can lead a
horse to water, but you can't make him drink'.

-- 
Tixy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238946

On Wed, 2021-08-18 at 09:06 +0100, mick crane wrote:
> On 2021-08-18 08:40, Tixy wrote:
> 
> > I agree with all of the above, but as the saying goes: 'you can lead a
> > horse to water, but you can't make him drink'.
> You can't blame a horse for wanting to see the chemical analysis of the 
> water and checking the vicinity for corpses.
> 

Not sure I see how that analogy applies.

If the 'water' is the knowledge of upgrading Debian releases as present
in the official release notes, then the chemical analysis is the advice
on upgrading from this list? In that case, it seems the horse is in
danger of eating the chemical analysis of the water, rather than
drinking the water.

The reverse would make more sense, the water being the advice from this
list, and the release notes being the chemical analysis.

-- 
Tixy

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#239099

On 2021-08-18, mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure I see how that analogy applies.
>> 
>> If the 'water' is the knowledge of upgrading Debian releases as present
>> in the official release notes, then the chemical analysis is the advice
>> on upgrading from this list? In that case, it seems the horse is in
>> danger of eating the chemical analysis of the water, rather than
>> drinking the water.
>> 
>> The reverse would make more sense, the water being the advice from this
>> list, and the release notes being the chemical analysis.
>
> you are right,I was being a bit flippant.
> Maybe more the horse is in an important race and just needs to know 
> where the water hole is.

I think in the case of certain people the horse is rather high and they
should get down from it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238948

On 18/08/2021 08:40, Tixy wrote:
> I agree with all of the above, but as the saying goes: 'you can lead a
> horse to water, but you can't make him drink'.

Amazing analogy. Gene has been given plenty of water, but he keeps
coming back for more while not taking even one sip yet. He failed to
RTFM but he asks and thanks for cherry-picked suggestions from mentioned
manual. He will end up with broken or at least not fully optimized system.

--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#239048

On 2021-08-18, Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> With a normal system, a shortened version of the upgrade procedure
>> without the warnings and pre-checks and post-checks might be OK,
>> but this is *Gene*.  We know he does not have normal systems.
>> 
>> He needs *all* of the warnings.
>> 
>
> I agree with all of the above, but as the saying goes: 'you can lead a
> horse to water, but you can't make him drink'.
>

Don't you mean you can lead a girl to Vassar, but you can't make her
think?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238947

On Tuesday 17 August 2021 18:48:34 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 11:05:44PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 16:54:54 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?
> >
> > What, in this helpful thread, do you find difficult to understand?
> >
> > You have a collection of important machines in your charge. The
> > complexity of managing them does not appear to be your forte.
> > Eptness appears to have deserted you.
> >
> > Stick wuth what you have. It is less strain on you and on us. :)
> >
> > --
> > Brian.
>
> Brian - maybe a bit more consideration? Any of us can be exasperating
> but it's worth spending some time with Gene to get it right.
>
> Gene,
>
> You have two upgrades to do.
>
> One from stretch -> buster. 9-10 That takes you from 2017 -> 2019.
>
> If you can reduce your /etc/apt/sources.list by commenting out third
> party repositories like Trinity, that will help.
>
> [Taken from https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using]
>
> The Stretch /etc/apt/sources.list should look like this:
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ stretch main contrib non-free
>
> deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib
> non-free
>
> Bring Stretch up to date finally: apt update ; apt full-upgrade

I am here, and there was only a long lit of autoremoves, which I did. I 
was already uptodate.

> Go find the release notes for Buster:
>
> https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/index.en.ht
>ml - especially Section 4 and 5

downoaded and printed setion 4 and section 5 but since I have 5 machines 
running buster from fresh installs from the linuxcnc site which is the 
same but with a realtime kernel, I don't expect any real showstoppers, 
but I've made dead tree out of both just in case.

I'll let this simmer for 3 or 4 days, giving amanda a chance to catch up, 
then continue from here. Thank you Andrew.

To Greg and Brian: I hope you both make it to my age, where poor short 
term memory will have become a daily fact, and that your experience by 
then is as wide as mine. I do have interests far wider than just debian. 
When I wrote my first program, it was for a tv station, ran on an rca 
1802. That was 1979, and it was usefull enough they were still using it 
several times a day in 1995. Computers have gotten a few hunbred times 
faster and at least 100x more capable AND complex today. And I do have 
other interests. To many it seems.

You've no doubt heard that water is not compressible, but in fact it is, 
it just takes another 7 miles of water on top of it to do it. I had 
fingerprints on the pcb's in the camera's that were on the Trieste when 
it went down into the mohole that took those pictures that proved it 
over 60 years ago.

> Buster sources.list - Buster was the first list to use deb.debian.org
> extensively
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main contrib non-free
>
> deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main
> contrib non-free deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> buster/updates main contrib non-free
>
> [Taken from https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade]
>
> Use apt update ; apt upgrade ; apt full-upgrade (optionally apt
> autoremove)
>
> Buster to Bullseye - 10-11 - 2019-2021
>
> Follow the same process again, essentially
>
> Bullseye sources.list
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main contrib non-free
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/ bullseye-security main
> contrib non-free deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/
> bullseye-security main contrib non-free
>
> deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main contrib
> non-free deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main
> contrib non-free
>
> Uncomment third party repositories - change appropriately, then apt
> update ; apt upgrade ; apt full-upgrade
>
> It's worth taking time to do this and writing down what step you've
> taken (or just print off the appropriate pages and use them as a tick
> list) There's a lot to do and it's _easy_ to mess up.
>
> Take care - all best, as always,
>
> Andy Cater


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#239002

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi

On 2021-08-17 6:05 p.m., Brian wrote:
> On Tue 17 Aug 2021 at 16:54:54 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
>> Where do I find the recipe to update stretch to buster?
> 
> What, in this helpful thread, do you find difficult to understand?
> 
> You have a collection of important machines in your charge. The
> complexity of managing them does not appear to be your forte. Eptness
> appears to have deserted you.
> 
> Stick wuth what you have. It is less strain on you and on us. :)
> 
No one ask you nothing as a personal note. So don't talk for others, no
one feels any strain. Only you feel some type of need to put others
problem in their face, this is of no use, doesn't help and mostly
doesn't encourage people to consider this to be a helpful community.

Who are you to judge this poster abilities for managing the complex
machines under his responsibilities ?

Maybe the only thing he find difficult, is your attitude ?

Please have some respect. If you don't feel like being helpful, it's
okay, no one force you to nothing but there's no need for this type of
comment.

The main goal of this mailing list is helping others. Not telling them
they are of "no good". People know where they fail and had problems,
they don't need you or anybody else to tell them.

With love to all fellow users.

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#238906

On 8/17/21 4:24 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> I just installed another sata controller and 4 1 T-byte Samsung SSD's.
> 
> The controller claims to be a 15 port port expander, but only 6 are
> bonded out, and collectively show up at ata7 in dmesg.
> 
> They show up as /dev/sde/f/g/h but have not otherwise been touched.
> 
> So I thought I'd make sure I was up to date, annd possibly install some
> raid-ish stuff to prepare this array for use as /home in the bullseye
> install, but something is ay least 5000% aglay.
> 
> sudo apt update says it wants to gut much of the system and upgrade 2588
> packages. Yet my repo list looks like its normal stretch.
> 
> What is going on? Do I wind up on buster or should I kiss it all goodbye?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


I keep my OS images smaller than "16 GB" and use small, dedicated 
devices to hold them (primarily 60 GB 2.5" SATA3 SSD's).  (I install 
2.5" SATA3 trayless drive racks in my desktops and servers.)  The vast 
majority of my data is on HDD's in RAID in a file server.


To do an OS major version upgrade, I would check-in the OS configuration 
files, backup the OS filesystem(s), pull the OS device, insert a blank 
device, do a fresh install to the new OS, update the OS, check-out the 
old configuration files into a working directory, restore the data, and 
configure the new OS.  When done, I would check-in the OS configuration 
files, backup the OS filesystems(s), and take a raw image of the new OS 
device.


David

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.user

csiph-web