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Groups > linux.debian.user > #230005 > unrolled thread
| Started by | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2020-12-26 23:30 +0100 |
| Last post | 2020-12-30 04:10 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 72 — 14 participants |
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No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-26 23:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Georgi Naplatanov <gosho@oles.biz> - 2020-12-26 23:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-26 23:50 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2020-12-27 01:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 01:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2020-12-27 01:50 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 02:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-27 00:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 00:50 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-27 01:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2020-12-27 09:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 13:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 16:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-12-27 22:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 23:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-12-27 23:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 23:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 09:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-12-28 13:50 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-28 14:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-28 22:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-28 23:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-28 23:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-29 00:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 00:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-29 01:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2020-12-29 02:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 13:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-12-29 11:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-12-29 12:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 13:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 19:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 19:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Romualdas Taluntis <romualdas@taluntis.lt> - 2020-12-29 20:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 20:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Romualdas Taluntis <romualdas@taluntis.lt> - 2020-12-29 21:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 21:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 21:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Georgi Naplatanov <gosho@oles.biz> - 2020-12-29 21:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-29 21:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-29 22:50 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 23:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-29 23:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-30 03:50 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-30 04:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-30 05:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2020-12-30 06:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-12-30 10:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-30 15:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-30 19:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 20:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-30 20:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-30 22:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-30 22:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 13:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-12-29 22:50 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 23:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Tony Rowe <torowe@gmail.com> - 2020-12-27 02:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 02:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-27 05:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 13:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-28 02:50 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-27 08:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 13:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 09:30 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Romualdas Taluntis <romualdas@taluntis.lt> - 2020-12-29 14:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 14:00 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-29 18:10 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 18:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-29 18:40 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-29 19:20 +0100
Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-30 04:10 +0100
Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 Next page →
| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-29 22:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Brv2q-2O0-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230081 |
The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-29 13:13 (UTC-0500): > https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813131665 The chipset on that board was released in 2008: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets#LGA_1366,_LGA_2011,_and_LGA_2011-v3> That's a hard to beat board for its day, every port one could have wanted. -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-29 23:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Brvc5-2T4-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230093 |
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On 2020-12-29 at 16:46, Felix Miata wrote: > The Wanderer composed on 2020-12-29 13:13 (UTC-0500): > >> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813131665 > > The chipset on that board was released in 2008: > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets#LGA_1366,_LGA_2011,_and_LGA_2011-v3> > > That's a hard to beat board for its day, every port one could have > wanted. Yep. Why d'you suppose I picked it? ^_^ Matching that level of versatility with *modern* ports on a modern motherboard, especially without access to a hardware-review site of the caliber I was drawing on at the time, is going to be difficult. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-29 23:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrvON-3uC-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230096 |
On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 04:52:48PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: >Matching that level of versatility with *modern* ports on a modern >motherboard, especially without access to a hardware-review site of the >caliber I was drawing on at the time, is going to be difficult. Not really: fast USB & nvme are pretty much standard these days. Your choices are more limited if you insist on a zillion onboard sata ports, but you could just get a 4 or 6 port expansion card for well under $50.
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 03:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrzIJ-5OV-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230097 |
Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-29 17:30 (UTC-0500): > On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 04:52:48PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: >>Matching that level of versatility with *modern* ports on a modern >>motherboard, especially without access to a hardware-review site of the >>caliber I was drawing on at the time, is going to be difficult. > Not really: fast USB & nvme are pretty much standard these days. Your > choices are more limited if you insist on a zillion onboard sata ports, > but you could just get a 4 or 6 port expansion card for well under $50. Boards with 2 M.2 NVME and 6 SATA aren't at all uncommon, but finding one with those and dual eSATA and Firewire and USB-C and Triple Channel and PS/2 and S/PDIF and dual PCIeX16 slots and PCIeX4 (or 8) slot and dual PCIeX1 slots and PCI slot and 8 channel audio ain't too easy. -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 04:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrAv8-6sb-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230105 |
On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 09:42:11PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-29 17:30 (UTC-0500): > >> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 04:52:48PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: > >>>Matching that level of versatility with *modern* ports on a modern >>>motherboard, especially without access to a hardware-review site of the >>>caliber I was drawing on at the time, is going to be difficult. > >> Not really: fast USB & nvme are pretty much standard these days. Your >> choices are more limited if you insist on a zillion onboard sata ports, >> but you could just get a 4 or 6 port expansion card for well under $50. > >Boards with 2 M.2 NVME and 6 SATA aren't at all uncommon, but finding one with >those and dual eSATA and Firewire and USB-C and Triple Channel and PS/2 and S/PDIF >and dual PCIeX16 slots and PCIeX4 (or 8) slot and dual PCIeX1 slots and PCI slot >and 8 channel audio ain't too easy. Right, you won't find many motherboards with a bunch of obsolete interfaces. Adapters are cheap if you have some old device you don't want to part with (I have a firewire card for an old scanner) but all of that? Seems unnecessary.
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 05:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrAOt-6yO-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230108 |
Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-29 22:37 (UTC-0500): > On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 21:42:11 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >>Boards with 2 M.2 NVME and 6 SATA aren't at all uncommon, but finding one with >>those and dual eSATA and Firewire and USB-C and Triple Channel and PS/2 and S/PDIF >>and dual PCIeX16 slots and PCIeX4 (or 8) slot and dual PCIeX1 slots and PCI slot >>and 8 channel audio ain't too easy. > Right, you won't find many motherboards with a bunch of obsolete > interfaces. Adapters are cheap if you have some old device you don't > want to part with (I have a firewire card for an old scanner) but all of > that? Seems unnecessary. So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just because something else came along that may or may not actually be as well suited to task? Obsolete, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder/user. I want my external disks on the same bus as my internal disks, not the USB bus, which when used for disks too commonly results in musical device names, and reboots that need to be redone because of a USB stick that failed to get removed first. I still prefer floppies (and OM) to USB sticks when appropriate to data size. They have room to write on them what they contain, equivalent to DVDs and CDs. Smaller, like faster, isn't necessarily better either. -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 06:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrBKx-78r-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230109 |
On 12/29/20 10:58 PM, Felix Miata wrote: > Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-29 22:37 (UTC-0500): > >> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 21:42:11 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >>> Boards with 2 M.2 NVME and 6 SATA aren't at all uncommon, but finding one with >>> those and dual eSATA and Firewire and USB-C and Triple Channel and PS/2 and S/PDIF >>> and dual PCIeX16 slots and PCIeX4 (or 8) slot and dual PCIeX1 slots and PCI slot >>> and 8 channel audio ain't too easy. >> Right, you won't find many motherboards with a bunch of obsolete >> interfaces. Adapters are cheap if you have some old device you don't >> want to part with (I have a firewire card for an old scanner) but all of >> that? Seems unnecessary. > So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just > because something else came along that may or may not actually be as well suited > to task? > > Obsolete, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder/user. I want my external > disks on the same bus as my internal disks, not the USB bus, which when used for > disks too commonly results in musical device names, and reboots that need to be > redone because of a USB stick that failed to get removed first. I still prefer floppies (and OM) to USB sticks when appropriate to data size. They > have room to write on them what they contain, equivalent to DVDs and CDs. Smaller, > like faster, isn't necessarily better either. I agree that USB sticks are a pain to label, but if you have some ten year old floppies kicking around, see if you can read the data on them--odds are, you can't! --doug
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| From | <tomas@tuxteam.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 10:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrFOa-1od-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230109 |
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On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 10:58:38PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: [...] > So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just > because something else came along that may or may not actually be as well suited > to task? "Ending is better than mending" -- Aldous Huxley, "Brave New World", 1932 It seems sleep-learning has been successful since then ;-D Cheers - t
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 15:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrKb8-47p-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230109 |
On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 10:58:38PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just >because something else came along that may or may not actually be as well suited >to task? Basically, yes. If I'm provisioning a new system, it seems stupid to build it around 10 year old storage media which is much closer to the end of its operational life than the beginning. It's just not rational to choose an option which has a higher failure rate, lower speed, higher cost per megabyte, etc., outside of extremely specialized requirements. You might not have noticed, but SATA basically stopped evolving a decade ago. The last attempt to really move SATA forward was SATA express, which was DOA and (AFAIK) never implemented on the drive side. There have been a few tweaks to the SATA standard since then, but it's effectively in legacy mode. Why? Because NVMe makes much more sense for modern storage media, and SATA's attempt to play in that space (SATA express) was already too slow and too late a decade ago. So if you buy something today it's going to be either slow/archival/cheap SATA or M.2/U.2 NVMe. When SATA stopped evolving, it made no more sense to keep eSATA going and now USB/thunderbolt are much faster as well as being more universal and having more functionality. The reason you don't see motherboards with 10 different kinds of ports on the back is that the couple of ports that remain do everything the old ones did, but faster and cheaper (by reducing BOM). Anyway, if you've got some sort of niche requirement like eSATA or firewire, get an adapter. An internal/external sata converter is literally a couple of bucks. In the context of the thread, there's still an existing system that's working fine, so keeping legacy devices on there is also an option. If you're determined that you need every obsolete interface (plus, presumably, new interfaces) built in to a new motherboard that's certainly your right, but you're really limiting your options and honestly showing signs of being an IT hoarder. >Obsolete, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder/user. I want my external >disks on the same bus as my internal disks, not the USB bus, which when used for >disks too commonly results in musical device names, and reboots that need to be >redone because of a USB stick that failed to get removed first. Who cares what the device names are? If you're hard coding device names instead of something intrinsic to the media it's a self-inflicted wound. > I still prefer floppies That's frankly nuts--floppies were slow and unreliable 25 years ago and haven't improved with age. If you value nostalgia over any rational criteria that's fine for you, but they aren't relevant to most of humanity.
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 19:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrOy6-6Tz-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230124 |
Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-30 08:56 (UTC-0500): > On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 10:58:38PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >>So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just >>because something else came along that may or may not actually be as well suited >>to task? > Basically, yes. Must be nice to have an unlimited money supply, and be a happy conforming member of throwaway society. If it was good enough before, it should be good enough until it breaks. Waste not, want not. > Who cares what the device names are? If you're hard coding device names > instead of something intrinsic to the media it's a self-inflicted wound. Where does this presumption of hard coding come from? I like short names, eth0 rather than enp5s0 in an environment with only one or two such devices, sda rather nvme0n1 when running hdparm -t or trying to explain device enumeration to a n00b. Likewise I hate change for the sake of change, and name changes, e.g. Goldstar changing to LG, KSnapshot changing to Spectacle, RCA disappearing into GE, GTE and Bell Atlantic disappearing into Verizon, AT&T Broadband changing to Comcast, Datsun -> Nissan, SCSI applied to *ATA devices. >> I still prefer floppies > That's frankly nuts--floppies were slow and unreliable 25 years ago and > haven't improved with age. If you value nostalgia over any rational > criteria that's fine for you, but they aren't relevant to most of > humanity. Again you stripped context. Managing media is a component of most backup systems. Labeling is an integral component of such management, as is storage of the media. I've yet to see a USB stick storage system that accommodates either labeling or physical storage of the wide variety of stick shapes and sizes, quite unlike floppies and OM. Shrinking media has downsides. Junk accumulates according to the amount of space available for it to fill. This applies to videos, mp3s and other data. Not everything new constitutes only improvement. Some people don't like fixing what ain't broke, keeping out of landfills perfectly usable stuff, preserving the environment as best they can, seemingly a dying breed. -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 20:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrP18-7it-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230134 |
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On Mi, 30 dec 20, 13:35:19, Felix Miata wrote: > > Again you stripped context. Managing media is a component of most backup systems. > Labeling is an integral component of such management, as is storage of the media. > I've yet to see a USB stick storage system that accommodates either labeling or > physical storage of the wide variety of stick shapes and sizes, quite unlike > floppies and OM. Shrinking media has downsides. USB sticks come in various shapes and sizes though, and most of them have some sort of keychain loop that can be used to attach tag(s) as big as needed. > Some people don't like fixing what ain't broke, keeping out of landfills perfectly > usable stuff, preserving the environment as best they can, seemingly a dying breed. Hardware can be recycled and new stuff is often using *much* less power (and space, often also completely silent because passively cooled) while providing better performance. Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 20:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrPaO-7lH-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230134 |
On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 01:35:19PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-30 08:56 (UTC-0500): >> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 10:58:38PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >>>So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just >>>because something else came along that may or may not actually be as well suited >>>to task? > >> Basically, yes. > >Must be nice to have an unlimited money supply, and be a happy conforming member >of throwaway society. If it was good enough before, it should be good enough until >it breaks. Waste not, want not. If those are concerns, don't upgrade at all...we're talking about the best way to upgrade a system, and I'll continue to maintain that it does not make sense to seek out a new motherboard with a plethora of obsolete interfaces in order to build a new system around ancient parts. >usable stuff, preserving the environment as best they can, seemingly a dying breed. Wasting power running obsolete equipment is a personal hobby, not an environmental benefit. If you're really concerned about generating new waste, then repurpose someone else's discards. There's nothing obviously virtuous about keeping 10 year old equipment running when 5 year old equipment is heading to the landfill; the net amount of ewaste is the same.
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| From | Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 22:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrQTf-8pn-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230139 |
Michael Stone composed on 2020-12-30 14:10 (UTC-0500): > On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 01:35:19PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > Wasting power running obsolete equipment is a personal hobby, not an > environmental benefit. If you're really concerned about generating new > waste, then repurpose someone else's discards. There's nothing obviously > virtuous about keeping 10 year old equipment running when 5 year old > equipment is heading to the landfill; the net amount of ewaste is the > same. Do you send your car to a recycler every 5 years too? Your house? Does 5 years of using a little less power equate to power and resources consumed creating new equipment? If it works, it shouldn't need fixing, or replacing. If I spent what OP spent to get the fastest processor and triple channel RAM, I would have expected no less life than he's gotten so far. It's very disappointing software has gotten so bloated that NVME and 2^4 genuine cores are becoming a necessity just to maintain performance. e.g.: Firefox download sizes from Mozilla.org: 1.0 8223869 2004 2.0.0.20 9710348 2008 3.6.28 10773449 2012 32 bit 4.0.1 15581202 2011 64 bit 10.0.12 18999452 2013 first ESR series 17.0.11 23590858 2013 24.8.1 28372626 2014 31.8.0 38997268 2015 38.8.0 46359449 2016 45.9.0 51807116 2017 52.9.0 57795546 2018 60.9.0 53465985 2019 68.12.0 64977721 2020-08 78.6.0 70888611 2020-12 84.0.1 76247713 2020-12 not ESR plus RAM requirement: "512 MB for the 32-bit version and 2 GB for the 64-bit version" for Wintel hdwe. and kernel: <https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/graph/png/Linux_kernel/0/e256b7025441726a29cc23582e4a523fc7105059.png> 58886019 May 2017 4.10.13 58571199 Aug 2017 4.11.8 64982767 Aug 2017 4.12.9 61065066 Nov 2017 4.13.12 62547184 Jan 2018 4.14.15 64949060 Apr 2018 4.15.13 66152028 Jun 2018 4.16.12 66781264 Aug 2018 4.17.14 66510600 Oct 2018 4.18.15 67377492 Dec 2018 4.19.12 67350588 Mar 2019 4.20.13 67262744 May 2019 5.0.13 68560788 Jul 2019 5.1.16 70516856 Sep 2019 5.2.14 81933836 Dec 2019 5.3.12 79660308 Feb 2020 5.4.14 80761600 Mar 2020 5.5.13 82639300 Jun 2020 5.6.14 83704540 Aug 7 5.7.12 87032455 Oct 6 5.8.15 86296136 Dec 13 5.9.14 -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
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| From | Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-30 22:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BrRmh-70-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230146 |
On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 04:07:01PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: >If it works, it shouldn't need fixing, or replacing. And yet, this entire subthread was premised on an upgrade! If you want to keep running old hardware then do so. Why on earth would it upset you that someone else isn't? >It's very disappointing software has gotten so bloated that NVME and 2^4 genuine >cores are becoming a necessity just to maintain performance. If it makes you happy to run 10 year old hardware, just keep running 10 year old software and you'll be all set!
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| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-29 13:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Brm8O-4Td-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230067 |
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On 2020-12-29 at 05:11, Anssi Saari wrote: > The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> writes: >>> 7-RMA the 5700. >> >> I'd be extremely hesitant to do that unless I know it's the >> problem. Also, although I just unboxed this within the past week, I >> ordered it more than a month ago; it's entirely possible they might >> not accept it back now. > > Well, it does have warranty, no? I'm honestly not sure about that, but it's certainly plausible. > I'd say "I can get into BIOS all right but if I try to install > Windows 10 I just get a black screen. Everything works fine with my > old video card." Of course you'd want to test with Windows first but > to me that's a sufficient diagnosis from a consumer. That'll require waiting till I've been back to my workplace and am home with enough leisure time to do the shutdown-and-swap again; at minimum, that'll be weekend after next. Unless someone else in the household happens to have Win10 install media sitting around, which given that the number of tech-savvy people in the household who run Windows is a grand total of 1 is not terribly likely. > After all, at > https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics/amd-radeon-5700-series/amd-radeon-rx-5700-series/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt#amd_support_product_spec > AMD only lists sufficient power as a requirement. PCI express > versions are compatible with adjacent versions and I think you have > PCI express 3.0 on your motherboard & CPU. I believe I do, yes. > Still, I wouldn't mention Grub, Linux or the age of your hardware in > a warranty claim. Of course, if you get a replacement and the new > card doesn't work in your system either then it's more likely to be > an incompatibility problem. This may be worth pursuing, indeed, once I've been able to test the Win10 side of things just for the extra confirmation. I'd be a bit concerned that if it *did* turn out to be an incompatibility after trying this, the fact that I hadn't mentioned the age of the motherboard (and other hardware, ref. the PSU state conversation elsethread) might be a point against me in their willingness to continue trying to help and get things working. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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| From | Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-29 22:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Brv2q-2O0-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230070 |
The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> writes: > Unless someone else in the household happens to have Win10 install media > sitting around, which given that the number of tech-savvy people in the > household who run Windows is a grand total of 1 is not terribly likely. Microsoft does make their installation media freely downloadable these days.
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| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-29 23:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Brvc5-2T4-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230094 |
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On 2020-12-29 at 16:48, Anssi Saari wrote: > The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> writes: > >> Unless someone else in the household happens to have Win10 install >> media sitting around, which given that the number of tech-savvy >> people in the household who run Windows is a grand total of 1 is >> not terribly likely. > > Microsoft does make their installation media freely downloadable > these days. Yeah, but I don't (think I) have any writable optical discs sitting around, and even if they happen to provide a bootable-USB-capable downloadable medium that can be applied to such a USB drive from a Linux environment I don't currently have an embarrassment of available USB drives which I can safely erase to work with. (Plus I am biased against accessing Websites which have no reason to need to be dynamic but nonetheless require JavaScript, and for some time now many of Microsoft's Websites - including, IIRC, the ones through which they offer downloads - have fit that description.) -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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| From | Tony Rowe <torowe@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-27 02:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BqsJj-295-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230005 |
On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 05:19:32PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: > With the new GPU in place, I get video output during POST and in the > BIOS (yes, this machine is old enough that it doesn't have a UEFI) Since you did not mention it (or anyone else, I think), did you check that your bios version is up to date? Tony > > -- > The Wanderer > > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all > progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw >
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| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-27 02:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <BqsT0-2cd-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230016 |
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On 2020-12-26 at 19:50, Tony Rowe wrote: > On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 05:19:32PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: > >> With the new GPU in place, I get video output during POST and in >> the BIOS (yes, this machine is old enough that it doesn't have a >> UEFI) > > Since you did not mention it (or anyone else, I think), did you check > that your bios version is up to date? It's almost certainly as up-to-date as it gets. This is a Sabertooth X58 motherboard, and is no longer receiving BIOS updates; its most recent available BIOS update is dated 2012, and since I have a copy of the downloadable file for that update in one of my archive directories with a timestamp from 2014, if it's not long-since installed I'd be rather surprised. Honestly I'd like to run on a newer motherboard, but it hasn't been worth trying to dig up one that's newer enough and has as many ports (primarily SATA ports) as I need and still supports the CPU socket of the existing CPU. Eventually I'll build a new system, but that's been being postponed for some years now. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2020-12-27 05:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Bqvxw-3WI-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #230005 |
On Sat 26 Dec 2020 at 17:19:32 (-0500), The Wanderer wrote: > I have for some years been running Debian with an older model of AMD GPU > (Radeon HD 6870) for graphics. > > I recently purchased a relatively recent model of GPU (Radeon RX 5700 > XT), and today swapped it in and attempted to boot with it. > Any suggestions for what to try? Did you take the old card out and then reboot and save the CMOS settings? Then put the new card in and ditto? (I have in the long distant past had trouble swapping/moving cards around when making too many changes in one step.) OTOH this could be just a cargo-cult suggestion. Cheers, David.
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