Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU

From	Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU
Date	2020-12-30 15:00 +0100
Message-ID	<BrKb8-47p-13@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <Brvc5-2T4-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <BrvON-3uC-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <BrzIJ-5OV-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <BrAv8-6sb-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <BrAOt-6yO-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 10:58:38PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
>So people are supposed to discard or replace their older external devices just
>because something else came along that may or may not actually be as well suited
>to task?

Basically, yes. If I'm provisioning a new system, it seems stupid to 
build it around 10 year old storage media which is much closer to the 
end of its operational life than the beginning. It's just not rational 
to choose an option which has a higher failure rate, lower speed, higher 
cost per megabyte, etc., outside of extremely specialized requirements.
You might not have noticed, but SATA basically stopped evolving a decade 
ago. The last attempt to really move SATA forward was SATA express, 
which was DOA and (AFAIK) never implemented on the drive side. There 
have been a few tweaks to the SATA standard since then, but it's 
effectively in legacy mode. Why? Because NVMe makes much more sense for 
modern storage media, and SATA's attempt to play in that space (SATA 
express) was already too slow and too late a decade ago. So if you buy 
something today it's going to be either slow/archival/cheap SATA or 
M.2/U.2 NVMe. When SATA stopped evolving, it made no more sense to keep 
eSATA going and now USB/thunderbolt are much faster as well as being 
more universal and having more functionality. The reason you don't see 
motherboards with 10 different kinds of ports on the back is that the 
couple of ports that remain do everything the old ones did, but faster 
and cheaper (by reducing BOM).

Anyway, if you've got some sort of niche requirement like eSATA or 
firewire, get an adapter. An internal/external sata converter is 
literally a couple of bucks. In the context of the thread, there's still 
an existing system that's working fine, so keeping legacy devices on 
there is also an option. If you're determined that you need every 
obsolete interface (plus, presumably, new interfaces) built in to a new
motherboard that's certainly your right, but you're really limiting your 
options and honestly showing signs of being an IT hoarder. 

>Obsolete, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder/user. I want my external
>disks on the same bus as my internal disks, not the USB bus, which when used for
>disks too commonly results in musical device names, and reboots that need to be
>redone because of a USB stick that failed to get removed first.

Who cares what the device names are? If you're hard coding device names 
instead of something intrinsic to the media it's a self-inflicted wound.

> I still prefer floppies

That's frankly nuts--floppies were slow and unreliable 25 years ago and 
haven't improved with age. If you value nostalgia over any rational 
criteria that's fine for you, but they aren't relevant to most of 
humanity.

Thread

No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-26 23:30 +0100
  Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Georgi Naplatanov <gosho@oles.biz> - 2020-12-26 23:40 +0100
    Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-26 23:50 +0100
    Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2020-12-27 01:00 +0100
      Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 01:20 +0100
        Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2020-12-27 01:50 +0100
          Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 02:00 +0100
  Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-27 00:30 +0100
    Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 00:50 +0100
      Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-27 01:40 +0100
      Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2020-12-27 09:00 +0100
        Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 13:20 +0100
          Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 16:30 +0100
            Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-12-27 22:40 +0100
              Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 23:10 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-12-27 23:30 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 23:40 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 09:20 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-12-28 13:50 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-28 14:00 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-28 22:20 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-28 23:10 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-28 23:30 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-29 00:30 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 00:40 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-29 01:30 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2020-12-29 02:40 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 13:30 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-12-29 11:20 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2020-12-29 12:10 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 13:00 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-29 19:10 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 19:20 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Romualdas Taluntis <romualdas@taluntis.lt> - 2020-12-29 20:30 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 20:30 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Romualdas Taluntis <romualdas@taluntis.lt> - 2020-12-29 21:00 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 21:20 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 21:40 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Georgi Naplatanov <gosho@oles.biz> - 2020-12-29 21:40 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-29 21:20 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-29 22:50 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 23:00 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-29 23:40 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-30 03:50 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-30 04:40 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-30 05:00 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2020-12-30 06:00 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-12-30 10:20 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-30 15:00 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-30 19:40 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-30 20:10 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-30 20:20 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-30 22:10 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-30 22:40 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 13:20 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2020-12-29 22:50 +0100
                Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 23:00 +0100
  Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Tony Rowe <torowe@gmail.com> - 2020-12-27 02:10 +0100
    Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 02:20 +0100
  Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-27 05:10 +0100
    Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 13:10 +0100
      Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-12-28 02:50 +0100
  Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-27 08:40 +0100
    Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-27 13:10 +0100
      Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-12-28 09:30 +0100
  Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Romualdas Taluntis <romualdas@taluntis.lt> - 2020-12-29 14:00 +0100
    Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 14:00 +0100
      Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-29 18:10 +0100
        Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-12-29 18:20 +0100
          Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-29 18:40 +0100
            Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-12-29 19:20 +0100
              Re: No GRUB with brand-new GPU Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2020-12-30 04:10 +0100

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